Some General Flaws With The Game From My Point Of View

[Sophet]

Hey there, haven't played since Update 10, and now the problems which i had with the game became even worse. Not to say they ruin my game experience, but sometimes i ask myself "why is it even like that". Mainly there's two of them - 

 

The first is the scramble with everything, can't wrap my head around the reasons to exist for some aspects. Like credit alerts - why are they even there, when I can simply do a Dark sector or Tower mission to get more credits and have a chance to get Fusion Cores or Prime parts? On a side note - this game would greatly benefit from the ability to choose your loadout from the solar map. Because it's rather frustrating to first look at the faction, against which you fight and mission type, then go to Arsenal, choose your loadout and go back to solar map.

 

Same with weapons - first thing i did was to build Atomos, which is kinda "push a button to destroy everithing" weapon, the problem is its blueprint is bought straight from the Market. And what about research weapons? Yes, i really like a small adventure to build them - you need to do invasions, to get reagents like Fieldron, then you need to get Forma from Void. But then what? More often than not you get mediocre weapon at best and ask yourself "Why did i even bother?". Take continious beam weapons - you have Synoid Gammacor, Atomos with Amprex, Phage and Quanta because of its alt fire. And the rest? The rest seems useless with an added insult of requiring Forma to build. Same goes for alert swords - they are rare, and they are useless, i actually believe that they would be much better just being alternative skins for one good sword. I really think DE should clean up this heap of generic stuff. I get why some weapons are useless, like Grakata or Gorgon, there should be entry weapons, but research ones and those that require high Mastery Rank shouldn't be in that category. And i mean clean up, not create new ones to create inconsistensy, like Tonkor, which for whatever reason is the only explosive weapon not to harm the player and which has twice the ammo of Penta. Or whips, that were useless, but instead of fixing them DE just added Atterax, which again is bought from the Market. What about two whipsm that require Forma? They were left garbage. Why is that, i really can't see the reason for this

 

The second thing, which bugs me even more - is mod system. The thing is for weapon you have 8 slots for them. 3 of which are no-brainers (damage, multishot and the third one depending on weapon type), then you add two elements, then you add either two elements or two crit mods. And you left with just one slot to play around, and since some weapons require specific mod (like Kohm needs fire rate) or Ammo Mutation - you have your cookie-cutter build made for you. The problem is plain damage doesn't change the weapon in any way. What about mods that actually make weapon more fun, like fire rate, reload speed, puncture, less recoil, Augments or Thunderbolt? Same with Warframes and mods like sprint speed, augments or Provoked. Well they just don't fit in endgame builds. I think it would be great, if either instead of plain damage mods you would just Fuse a weapon directly, of those mods would have their own slots. This would allow using fun utility mods, and make new ones. Like mod that added spool up for rifles, or twin magasines, which would make every second reload instant, or bouncing bullets, or slightly homing bullets, or shrapnel bullets, or stunning bullets, or wavy lasers, or burst mod, that would add damage, but created a pause every third shot, or a modm that would allow Warframe to crush barrels while sprinting. Stuff like that, that would add utility, fun and flavor, instead of just boring increase of damage to keep up with mob levels. Right now modding weapon seems more like a choir with added frustration of switching loadouts jor elemental combos - again, for just plain damage.

 

Something like that. I'm sorry for my english - not my native language, hope you weren't bored too much, have a good day.

Edited June 14, 2015 by Sophet

[Evansmaan]

What you all said ---- should be changed in future, of course.

 

Credit Alerts? I can accept that if it only appears in low-level planets...  Even high-level credit alerts don't give enough rewards\.

 

Weapon Balancing? At least Supra is going to get buffs. DE is always working on it. We should give them more time.

 

Mod System... This... must be changed. One of thing that must happen is to remove 'Serration'. Maybe Weapon Rank can replace this. But I think this will take a lot of time to fix, since it's almost everything in Warframe.

Edited June 14, 2015 by Evansmaan

[Omnimorph]

I think with the alerts, the reason I play them is because I haven't completed the star map, and I like playing with other people.  It's hard to find teams to complete the star map on, so when there's an alert, because it's a guaranteed PUG, I leap at the opportunity.  Also the payout is a little bit more than an average mission for that level, and sometime there are extra goodies like helmets.

 

Warframe is ok as a solo game, but it shines much more when there are 4 in a team, it feels more alive, but for a large part of the mid-game because the star map gets deserted, it doesn't feel like such a social experience as it is at the beginning (with all the newbies playing) or at the end (when it's easy to get teams for Draco/Void stuff, etc.).

 

I've often thought that a utility slot on everything would be kind of cool.  The trouble is with more ordinary slots people will just slot more damage stuff rather than more flavour things (e.g. you'd slot a 60% dual stat elemental and a 90% elemental), so would be too OP (I don't agree we're OP atm, we're pretty much ok for the state of the average player who isn't playing the game 24/7 and getting all the goodies).  But a utility/QOL slot for things like magazine or reload speed would be nice (although actually reload speed figures a bit into sustained dps calc).

Edited June 14, 2015 by Omnimorph

[Sziklamester]

Removing core damage addition mods not the smartest way because many peoples use multiple and levelling up cost so much time and materials. Those mods should haven't been exist but if they are then we need other solutions to balance. The current mod system is broken as the before ones because they release really op and really bad mods and not balaning them at all. 

 

Many times before suggested some changes like skill tree system but in the earliest time in this game the peoples experienced then said no thanks.

 

My opinion is better to buff now the worse mods and keep on the level the op mods other mods could be nerfed others be buffed or add some skill trees. "specialization".

 

With the current system of modding the problem is very dependent on slots what we have and dependent on mobs at high level and peoples never will sacrifice survivability for fancy mods like warm coat. This kill the variation and the skill based playing because you depend on your mods and if you mod your frame on the suggested way then you are "pro".

[Sophet]

Yes, that's true about reload speed and fire rate being kinda DPS mods, still they change a weapon, which is much more interesting, than just damage. Still that can be fixed by making utility mods double stat, like you get some you loose some, like increasing reload spped and decreasing fire rate, or increasing reload speed decreasing magasine size - so they would balance themselves out, bus still add flavour and ability to choose for players.

[Sophet]

As for damage mods - they already gave a legendary fusion core for players, that fused Steel Charge - now they can remove Serration, and give it's energy in Fusion cores, so players could fuse weapons directly instead. Or just have seperate slots for damage mods and fun ones, that could fix things

[Sziklamester]

As for damage mods - they already gave a legendary fusion core for players, that fused Steel Charge - now they can remove Serration, and give it's energy in Fusion cores, so players could fuse weapons directly instead. Or just have seperate slots for damage mods and fun ones, that could fix things

 

The legendary core gift not solve the problem and not give your effort back.

 

This system hardly can be changed because the devs fked up in the beginning now those mods removal makes more trouble and rage.

[Megakruemel]

A lot of very good feedback here. I really hope the Devs see this.

[Sziklamester]

A lot of very good feedback here. I really hope the Devs see this.

 

Agreed.

 

Ninja'd

[Sophet]

Actually for a fun aspect one more thing came to mind. That's elemental damage mods - they really do remove character from weapons, as an example take beam weapons - it doesn't really matter what kind of damage they do as a base, be that Glaxion or Atomos - still after elemental mods they both inflict two same elements (Corrosive and Blast against Infested), so in the end they are not frost and fire beam, they both are just continious weapons. Instead of having the same weapons and change loadouts for each faction it would be better to have separate weapons against them. Even better - make them both viable, but give them different effects, like one weapon slows, other stuns, third disarms, forth throws enemies back and so on. As of now they really are rather generic, even slash-puncture, still after mods base damage is a bit more than 20% of total damage (100% is physical and 4x90=360% is elemental), a bit more with dual-status mods, but still. DE really removed their own oxygen with them, so instead of distinct interesting weapons generic archtypes are created, which is a shame. At least i personally can't see the reason to try any other beam weapon after trying one. Which is weird, because melee ones are really different, at least their categories (still can't understand the reason those useless alert swords and daggers exist)

[(PSN)ElZilcho]

The mod system is fine. The problem is that almost none of the guns are suited for modding any differently.

 

An automatic, hitscan weapon doesn't benefit from most of the "utility" mods. It doesn't need increased projectile speed or beam length. Even the weapons that are suited for special effect mods (such as ruinous extension on the atomos) are not suited for a variety of special mods. It's just that one. And if you make a gun that requires a certain utility mod because it's so strange it's unusable without it, then it's just another required mod.

 

The idea of modding for "fun and flavor" is also pretty flawed. I generally get the idea that some people think others will care what sort of goofy mods they equipped, or that they would suddenly have fun if they could make their weapon "special". Nobody will care though. And unless these mods make a significant difference in gameplay, you really aren't making weapons any more interesting or fun to use. And here's where it comes back around: if the mods make a significant difference to gameplay, someone is going to figure out which one is best. People have been doing that with games since before the "video" portion was a factor.

 

I'm all for more interesting weapons and more special mods, because they won't hurt me by existing, but you also have to realize that games are made of numbers and someone will always figure out how to get the best numbers. The best thing you can do is not care. I put terminal velocity on the tonkor because I found it easier to use that way. Someone will probably tell me it would be better with hammershot bringing up the crit damage even more. I know! I just don't care! I'm not doing any damage if I'm missing and I miss less with terminal velocity. All I had to do was accept that someone else's tonkor might kill an enemy that mine wouldn't. I'm fine with that, and voila, build variety!

[Sophet]

Well, there's limit for variety - like if a grenade launcher doesn't one-shot a mob - it's just wrong. I'm not talking about bosses and extremely high level mobs. So you still need to mod a weapon to have enough DPS for a mission you're going to, and modding something else instead of overkill. And I really would enjoy having a mod (or weapon) which changes grenades to be cluster bombs, which together do the same damage as a single grenade, but add chaos and special effects, so I could feel like holding an instrument of sheer destruction in my hands.

 

About cookie-cutter builds that people will use - true, but that's why utility mods shouldn't do much for damage. Take every single MOBA - characters are different, yet balanced (obviously to an extent), some are better at bursting, some at sustained dps, some at mobility or control. Utility mods should be just like that - not adding strength, but fun. More like fine-tuning a weapon so it would better suit you, changing its dynamic, so to say. Like puncture - it doesn't add DPS on direct target, but makes killing swarms and hiding enemies more pleasant. Same with a bit of homing - skilled player doesn't need it, but casual one could benefit from a bit of leasure.

 

The thing is not making a weapon-warframe more special in the eyes of others, more like giving players the ability to enter Arsenal, browse through mods and think "now that would be hilarious". Like Thunderbolt - correct me if I'm wrong, but it has fixed 250 damage which doesn't scale with mods. At higher levels this amount of damage is a joke, still it's awesome to play with, espesially with Attica. Just make some special effects, which add some excitement. And some choice, so you can spend some time trying and picking something for your liking, not because it's a no-brainer.

 

Plus you admitted yourself - faster projectiles is more fun, than plain damage, same with reload speed and fire rate. You can feel and enjoy, when you start running faster, but i don't think anyone can be excited for more armor

Edited June 14, 2015 by Sophet

[(PSN)ElZilcho]

Well, there's limit for variety - like if a grenade launcher doesn't one-shot a mob - it's just wrong. I'm not talking about bosses and extremely high level mobs. So you still need to mod a weapon to have enough DPS for a mission you're going to, and modding something else instead of overkill. And I really would enjoy having a mod (or weapon) which changes grenades to be cluster bombs, which together do the same damage as a single grenade, but add chaos and special effects, so I could feel like holding an instrument of sheer destruction in my hands.

 

About cookie-cutter builds that people will use - true, but that's why utility mods shouldn't do much for damage. Take every single MOBA - characters are different, yet balanced (obviously to an extent), some are better at bursting, some at sustained dps, some at mobility or control. Utility mods should be just like that - not adding strength, but fun. More like fine-tuning a weapon so it would better suit you, changing its dynamic, so to say. Like puncture - it doesn't add DPS on direct target, but makes killing swarms and hiding enemies more pleasant. Same with a bit of homing - skilled player doesn't need it, but casual one could benefit from a bit of leasure.

 

The thing is not making a weapon-warframe more special in the eyes of others, more like giving players the ability to enter Arsenal, browse through mods and think "now that would be hilarious". Like Thunderbolt - correct me if I'm wrong, but it has fixed 250 damage which doesn't scale with mods. At higher levels this amount of damage is a joke, still it's awesome to play with, espesially with Attica. Just make some special effects, which add some excitement. And some choice, so you can spend some time trying and picking something for your liking, not because it's a no-brainer.

 

Plus you admitted yourself - faster projectiles is more fun, than plain damage, same with reload speed and fire rate. You can feel and enjoy, when you start running faster, but i don't think anyone can be excited for more armor

 

I don't find it more fun. I find it more effective. Missed shots do zero damage and I hit more with Terminal Velocity. I guess you could say I have more fun because I'm failing less, but the mod itself isn't fun. It's just addressing a weakness of the Tonkor when used from further away. This doesn't really disagree with you though. Just saying that I use the utility mod for utility. Tonkor works like a Tonkor with or without it.

 

Adding more special effects is fine by me, but my point is more that nobody will use them if they don't make a difference and they won't on most guns. That's why I think weapon design is more important than modding. Ruinous Exension didn't do much that anybody would care about until there was a gun that linked between enemies. More variety in both weapon and mod design is probably for the best. We're probably both right in the end.

 

The Attica Is probably the one way that Thunderbolt is actually worth using, On normal bows, there are better choices for making an effective weapon, and Thunderbolt tends to spoil the stealth aspect of bows by chip-damaging surrounding enemies and alerting them. On the Attica, you take advantage of the rate of fire and carpet bomb an area. And people do that. I play with somebody who does that fairly often. If they can make that work in T3 survival, then lots of people should be able to mix things up.

 

I just think people are looking for some magical cure-all to modding for stats sometimes. A big part of the "problem" with the mod system is that a lot people refuse to use something that isn't min-maxed. No changes to the mod system will ever stop them from being that way. If everything got rebalanced and suddenly the grakata was the best gun, they'd all use it and mod it the same and complain about how the grakata was killing the game. They're just not letting themselves have fun.

 

More armor can be fun, depending on how you want to play. It certainly works on Chroma with ice.

Edited June 14, 2015 by (PS4)ElZilcho

[Sophet]

Still armor is a plain gain to effective health, just like serration is a plain gain to damage. As for Terminal Velocity - that's mod, that changes weapon dynamic, making it more pleasant to use - that's exactly the kind of mods I'm talking about

 

Adding more special effects is fine by me, but my point is more that nobody will use them if they don't make a difference and they won't on most guns. That's why I think weapon design is more important than modding. 

 

True that, but that's exactly my main problem with the system - useful and nessesary mods take the same slots as flavor ones. I'd really like to either have separate slots, or just to fuse weapons themselves - like for example for each Forma you can fuse your weapon X times and get, say 20% increase in damage for each rank.

 

Sure, you need to be dumb to take lower recoil instead of serration, but if you had seperate slots for things like lower recoil, better zoom, puncture, added spool up, +20% increase in damage but reduced fire rate (so it would balance itsef) and such - you can not use them at all and wepon strength won't change, but you could tune your weapon a bit. Especially if those slots would be limited so you had to make choices and decide, what you want from your weapon.

 

As for better weapon design - it's a bit late for that, we already have tons of generic and essentially the same weapons, like beam weapons, long swords, automatic guns, be they rifles or pistols, semi-automatic ones and so on. The only way i can see them fixed - is to remove elemental damage mods, which would allow DE to diverse elemental weapons. As for physical damage - well, Boltor in damage 1.0 was really distinct, but it was way too poowerful. And I really doubt, that developers would remove those heaps of copy-paste weapons from the game, so change to modding system seems like the simplest solution

Edited June 14, 2015 by Sophet

[Sophet]

Probably should create a new thread, but i guess it's easier to post it here.

 

Played for some time and remembered why I stopped playing in Update 10 - the reason is the amount of content you want to play. Warframe is a game, that mostly doesn't offer you a way, I mean that after you've got the thing you wanted from a certain mission (prime parts, dualstat mods from spy, warframe blueprints, corrupted-nightmare mods and so on) you no longer have any reason to be there ever again. What's worse - majority of weapons are researched and build in the foundry, which isn't active gameplay. And after you've acquired everything you want there's 3 option for you - get something else just for the sake of content, do something you won't benefit from (like spy-tower-derelict you already have rewards from) or simply quit.

 

Right now I have almost everything I want, exept Boltor Prime, there's not much maintenance content (stacking Forma being the only one coming to mind), so the only thing I feel useful to do - is to fuse mods, because I'm not some crazy completionist to make and rank five of the same bows, beam weapons, semi-auto guns of automatic rifles and gameplay for the sake of gameplay gets boring really fast - after tenth time spy is not that exciting anymore. As such I feel myself shoehorned into grinding survivals to get credits and fusion cores, and since a single rare mod requires 400 fusion cores to rank, I highly doubt I'll see it through.

 

The problem is there's not much universally useful content, almost like the game tells me "Well, there's Rhino Prime there Go grind some keys and then grind Void. Don't want it? Then you could not play these missions at all, because you won't get anything".

 

That's my criticism, now to suggestions I'd like to make - 

 - One way I see it - since DE won't change weapon ranking system, it's possyble to change Fusion one, for example to make a special fusion core, which gains charge from affinity you get, or from certain missions, or from challenges (those thingies "Kill 30 enemies"), or from something else not random (because it would be the same as mods right now). And from this charge you could fuse your mods - that would make content other then survival and excavation useful

 - Other option could be faction specific affinity, for example you get double Rifle affinity in Grineer missions, double Melee in Infested and so on, So yo would have a reason to play something other than Void or Dark Sectors

 - Mobs like synthesis targets or items like syndicate insignias, that you could look for, that give you affinity or fusion energy - this will stop some speed running and give players a reason to look around and actually see the tilesets

 - Add something completely new, like damage booster for an hour, blueprint on which would drop like forma. Come to think of it - it's even possible to make them faction specific - damage booster from Grineer, Shield from Corpus an so on. Or mission specific, or tileset specific - either way there would be a reason to do something other than to grind survival, and a reason to see other factions.

 

Anyway I really think that there should be something, that every single player would like to get and what is acquired from different missions-factions-planets via active gameplay and that is required more than once. So you would have something different to do and don't feel like it's farming or wasting time.

Edited June 16, 2015 by Sophet

[Davoodoo]

Best thing is that we recently got spy alerts, which happen rarely and award 50k...

 

50k to bother with stealth mission which requires all 3 consoles hacked.

It feels like an insult at this point.

 

It would maybe be worth the effort, for 250-500k.

Edited June 16, 2015 by Davoodoo

[Sophet]

Seems like this thread is rather stale, still I'll continue piling some ideas here. Today it's Invasions - right now Invasion is Exterminate grinding, which mostly doesn't benefit player at all, 35k credits is a joke compared to Void and Dark Sectors, plus doing the same thing five times in a row isn't very fun. So there's not much fun (not more than simple Exterminate offers) and not much of a reward (I've seen Catalyst once, but that's all, some people could benefit from reagents, but again - you don't need a lot of them, and you stop needing them after you've built weapon you want) - so again, the only reason to play them - is to entertain yourself if you have nothing better to do.

 

What if make them more dinamic? For example instead of five exactly same Exterminates they had phases -

 - first time it's defence - either the faster you kill enemies -> the less allies will die -> the more allied units there will be in further missions. Or you defends engineers, who will give you access to better rewards later

 - second is counter-attack and boarding your enemy. That could be just exterminate inside alled ship

 - third is disabling defences inside enemy ship - that's deception. There could be optionsl tasks, like alongside defences disable alarm systems, which is not required for mission success, but will provide you with better loot at the end

 - forth is one more exterminate inside enemy ship, with added minibosses commanders

 - fifth is the reason to play it at all - looting phase, there could be 3 chests, which are timed, like spy missions, and if you disables security in the third phase - the timer is longer, or disabled at all. And treasure rooms, that only engineers from first mission could open. Or engineers could be required to disable security earlier either way they must be escorted like prisoneers in rescue missions

 

The problem is right now there's not much rewards, that stay relevant after you've gotten them once, Forma and Reactors seem the only one. There could be Fusion cores, but even if you need a ton of them - still you need finite amount (which is still ridiculous). There could be cyphers and team restores - but since they a crafted cheap and fast - not much of a reason for them to be there. There could be boosters, like I've written earlier, even something like affinity booster for an hour. Or credit one, or something else.

 

Still this will add some rewarding maintenance active gameplay, like daily syndicate alerts (which i personally don't do, because i don't really want anything from them, and looking for insignias just for the sake of it is boring)