What Is The Best Secondary Weapon And The Best Melee?

[Eltoshan]

I really wish people would stop recommending the Lex! It has the second lowest DPS in the game, second only to the Paris. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtiLYll-XsesdG1CWWQzOG91c1o0M3hxS1lGek9RZHc#gid=0

 

Its fire rate is crippling, making it fairly useless when there are more than a handful of enemies attacking you, and this doesn't even mean exclusively infested. When there's four corpus shooting at you, if you're not taking them out quick, you're going to be eating a lot of lasers.

 

Yes it's accurate, but so is the Lato (just as an example) and several other sidearms. And if it's accurate and you aim for the head, a Lato will often kill similarly as quick (i.e. one or two bullets) as the Lex which will just too tons of overkill damage.

 

The argument that "it gets better as you mod it" is terrible because this is true for every weapon. The only difference is that if you add +X% damage to a Lex, you're just adding more overkill damage to it.

 

The best all around secondary weapon is probably the akbolto. It has good clip size, fire rate, accuracy, damage per shot and is the only sidearm with armor ignore. Armor ignore also makes accuracy even less of an issue as the damage resistance that would normally be found in the body can be ignored due to the bolt type damage of this weapon whereas other non-bolt weapons are forced to hit in the head (or arms/legs on ancients) in order to not suffer massive penalties.

 

As other options, the Bronco has very high DPS and ammo efficiency. The twin vipers make for an excellent "panic button" as they have the highest burst DPS of all weapons in the game, usefull for unloading on something that you really need dead right now.

Unfortunately, spreadsheets don't really reflect reality. Particularly if you look at the shotgun numbers on there, and then look at what people actually use.

 

Also, calling the Lex's fire rate crippling is somewhere between silly and an outright lie, unless you're lasering in on a new target's head constantly in under a second without error. Unless you aren't using Gunslinger...

[--GOOLOO_GOOLOO_GOOLOO--]

What about Kraken vs. Lato Vandal?

[Jaon]

Ive specced my fragor with attack speed and all 4 elemental damage mods. It is freaking insane. 

[KF5AQX]

In my experience, the best side arm is either Akalato (If you prefer more pray 'n spray tactics,) and Dual Ethers, or Lex and Dual Ethers. The Lex is a pocket sized sniper, and with just a few mods, can easily one shot any basic enemy up to level thirty. The Dual Ethers are the only melee weapon that can hit several targets with one swing, and have armor ignore, making them a potent combo in any situation. Paired with their high firing rate and decent damage, they can kill just about anything. Their only problem is that base charge damage is not much higher than standard damage, so you either need mods for charge, or just hammer E in combat.

[Eltoshan]

 The Dual Ethers are the only melee weapon that can hit several targets with one swing, and have armor ignore, making them a potent combo in any situation.

There are other weapons that can hit several targets with one swing while ignoring armor. Examples: heavy weapons (gram/scindo/fragor) with charge attacks, dual heat swords with charge attacks, Fragor with normal attacks...

[OoKeNnEtHoO]

Lex and Gram.

 

High damage per shot and knockdown melee slam.

[KF5AQX]

There are other weapons that can hit several targets with one swing while ignoring armor. Examples: heavy weapons (gram/scindo/fragor) with charge attacks, dual heat swords with charge attacks, Fragor with normal attacks...

 

That would explain it then. I don't use heavy, so I have no experience with them. Forgive my lack of knowledge?

[Eltoshan]

That would explain it then. I don't use heavy, so I have no experience with them. Forgive my lack of knowledge?

NOTHING IS FORGIVEN

 

(kidding, of course)

 

 

But yeah dual ethers are nice but the problem is even fully modded they pale in comparison to modded out charge weapons. Of course, they're still fine even in Pluto, they're just less efficient, so it's not a big deal unless you absolutely want the top of the line stuff.

[CookiesMonsters]

I am currently building akbolto so can't say about it yet. But for Lex vs Kraken, I prefer kraken. People talk about Lex being better at sniping, this is true, but sniping is only useful at first 10 or 20 hours of gameplay when you don't have good equipment and struggling to survive.

[oneproduct]

Unfortunately, spreadsheets don't really reflect reality. Particularly if you look at the shotgun numbers on there, and then look at what people actually use.

 

Also, calling the Lex's fire rate crippling is somewhere between silly and an outright lie, unless you're lasering in on a new target's head constantly in under a second without error. Unless you aren't using Gunslinger...

No, they don't tell the whole story, but at the same time looking at what people use doesn't mean it's right either. The Paris and the Lex are both highly used mostly because people find them cool, but they are the two lowest DPS weapons in the game, and that is simply a fact.

 

Why is this a problem?

 

1. Slow rate of fire weapons are not good at dealing with a large number of enemies, generally because slow rate of fire weapons deal high damage per shot resulting in overkill and you can't afford the wasted damage (poor damage efficiency) when you're being swarmed. This means defense/mobile defense.

2. Low DPS weapons are not good against single, high health enemies. This means bosses and heavy units (ancients/machine gunners).

3. Defense missions and bosses are the two things in the game worth doing right now.

 

What does that leave the Paris and Lex good at? Dealing with a small number of weak enemies, which is easy no matter what weapon you use. The second problem is that if the Paris and Lex are good against weak enemies, you are overkilling them. One shot to the head from a Lato is quite likely to kill a weak enemy just as well as one shot to the head from a Lex.

 

There also seems to be this misconception that the Lex is the only pistol that can shoot with any amount of accuracy, which is not true.

 

People also seem to think that if you have a fast primary weapon that you should have a slow secondary weapon, but again there's no need to do that. Or people think that if you have a short range primary weapon that you need a Lex because it's the only secondary weapon that can be used at long range, which is also not true.

 

While having your weapons compliment each other is a fine thing, the Lex is not the compliment to every high fire rate or short range weapon. What's the Lato go good with? Nothing? You'd think that with the way people praise the Lex or dual pistols. People just don't want to use the Lato because it is the starting gun, but it's got good accuracy and DPS and can serve as a sniper pistol just as well as the Lex can.

 

You want to compliment your primary weapon? Take the akbolto if you primary weapon doesn't have armor ignore; bronce, afuris or twin vipers if you're primary weapon isn't bursty enough (for example, they would go well as a personal defense weapon with a Paris); or Lato if you want a sniper pistol.

 

The Lex is not a good weapon. It is a cool weapon. People like killing things in one hit and feeling that big oomph from a big number coming out of their gun. If you want to use it for style, fine. If you're asking what the best pistol is, it's not even close.

[Eltoshan]

I had a lot more words typed out but I decided to be a bit more succinct. (edit: actually this is barely more succinct at all!!! i am a liar)

 

First, stop trying to say other people are using a gun because they think it's "cool" or because they "like big damage numbers". Don't speak for other people as part of your argument, it's not actually valid or interesting.

 

Second, what does the Paris have to do with anything? I didn't mention it. Just because a spreadsheet comparing unmodded guns showed their dps numbers are similar doesn't actually make it relevant to anything. The only times it's been mentioned before in this thread was to talk about how most people aren't using it/don't like it.

 

Third, the only time your weapon being "slow" (it's not even that slow with a fire rate mod, jeez, unless you are really biased towards bullet sprayers--I mean, I love my Twin Vipers as much as the next person, but..) really matters is against infested. It is more than adequate against Corpus/Grineer, yes, even on mobile defense. Would I bring it to endgame defense missions? No. But...? Most guns are bad in endgame defense missions! Calling it bad by that metric is silly and short-sighted.

 

You'll note that I'm not actually calling it the best because I don't actively believe that, but your reasons for suggesting it's actively bad instead of "a good choice but not top tier" are erring on the side of mostly silly. Do you think the OP right now sounds like someone who is solely doing defense missions and boss runs? The issues that you claim to be so horribly debilitating in reality will only manifest themselves at exactly the level where the amount of usable guns shrinks to an incredibly tiny pool anyway (hell, some of the alternatives you named aren't even in that pool), nevermind that most pub groups seem to barely go past 10-15 on Xini anyways. (or maybe I'm unlucky.)

 

It's okay if you don't like the Lex but it's hardly a bad gun, and people aren't just using it for "omg style!!!"

Edited May 23, 2013 by Eltoshan

[Meltina]

On almost every occasion the Lex would be good the lato would out perform it. You may like the style and feel of the lex but the lato would do the same job better. Thats the biggest flaw with the lex. You may one shot an enemy with the lex but the lato can fire multiple shots in that time so the lato either kills the enemy due to higher dps or kills multiple enemies due to less wasted overkill damage. When a weapon is outclassed that hard its considered to suck. The OP is asking for weapon suggestions thus he is wanting to avoid weapons that suck.

 

Also at the moment if your doing shotguns go with the bronco and take a diffrent weapon the hek only out damages the bronco for a small 6 meter range anything closer or farther the bronco does more damage due to superior pistol mods.

[Eltoshan]

On almost every occasion the Lex would be good the lato would out perform it. You may like the style and feel of the lex but the lato would do the same job better. Thats the biggest flaw with the lex. You may one shot an enemy with the lex but the lato can fire multiple shots in that time so the lato either kills the enemy due to higher dps or kills multiple enemies due to less wasted overkill damage. When a weapon is outclassed that hard its considered to suck. The OP is asking for weapon suggestions thus he is wanting to avoid weapons that suck.

 

Also at the moment if your doing shotguns go with the bronco and take a diffrent weapon the hek only out damages the bronco for a small 6 meter range anything closer or farther the bronco does more damage due to superior pistol mods.

By this metric, then, the Lato is a steaming pile of trash because the Twin Vipers exist. Actually, that would make every other pistol trash too, but that'd be silly to say and we're not going to be silly here. The Lex is hardly outclassed in any significant way for the majority of the game barring preferences, because the pistols are, in practice, generally pretty competent (probably aided by pistol mods owning) as opposed to the number of awful melee weapons or mediocre primary weapons.

 

Also I hope you realize how silly it is to say "well the lex might oneshot something, but the lato fires faster so it will kill the enemy due to higher DPS". You know oneshotting implies a single bullet killed it, right? The multiple enemies part is true, albeit incredibly overstated. I guess maybe if you're playing with other people who can't figure out how to shoot enemies, or something, or if you choose to solo all defense/mobile defense missions, then it could be debilitating.

 

 

Also, again, just for clarification: I'm not saying the Lex is the best. Twin Vipers are pretty clearly at the top or hovering right around it for pistols, but the Lex is not a bad weapon.

[IlIlllIO0pallaO0IlIlIlIl]

Side-arm:

Short range: Bronco(with max damage and multi shot mods, this thing is insane, + great ammon efficiency), Runner Up: Akbolto(better sustained DPS, AP)

 

Long range: Kraken(Hard to use, you need to practice handling the recoil, when mastered, superior to Lex in almost every way), Runner up: Lato Vandal(Great all around, easy to use, extremely low recoil)

 

Melee:

Speed+style: Fang(Highest single target DPS both charge and normal attacks, armour piercing, 3 attacks avg per animation, fast attacks), Runner up: Furax(Great single target DPS, high damage for special normal attacks, slow slide attack)

 

All around: Gram(Stagger on splash damage, decent range, highest normal and charge attack DPS for all heavy weapons, no damage reduction when attacking multiple enemies-heavy weapons, relatively fast compared to other heavies) Runner up: Dual Heat Swords(Similar DPS to Gram, but slightly less predictable charge attacks)

 

Crowd Control: Scindo(Only marginally slower than Gram, largest range, ridiculous stagger range)

 

Most Potential: Glaive(Deals high long range damage, can be used to hit multiple targets, easy to head shot with, relatively large hit box, accurate, safety of the distance)

[Meltina]

Actual the lato is trash compared to the lato vandal but i didnt bring that in to the discussion because it is impossible to obtain now. The base dps of the lato is 106 the base dps of the twin viper is 159 dps while the lex is at 58 all mods are % increases. The vipers is a better damage weapon and despite using the vipers for killing enemies across the 100 meter gap in that corpus defense mission it us not usualy comnsidered an accurate sniping weapon. The lato and the lex fill the same role the lex is more ammo efficent but the time period where the lato runs out of ammo the missions already over or the lex is too low dps to be able to handle the enemies. I would say the real king of pistols is the bronco as it has twin vipers levels of dps but has superior ammo effency.

[Eltoshan]

All around: Gram(Stagger on splash damage, decent range, highest normal and charge attack DPS for all heavy weapons, no damage reduction when attacking multiple enemies-heavy weapons, relatively fast compared to other heavies)

Unless you're only fighting infested, Gram isn't the highest normal attack DPS because Fragor ignores armor with its normals unlike the Gram/Scindo. Of course, this is mostly moot because you don't really normal attack with the Gram anyway and the Fragor isn't very good at normal attacks compared to some alternatives.

 

@Above: As noted before, spreadsheet DPS numbers are hardly a good basis on evaluating weapons in a game like this. On paper the Kraken looks awful, in practice it's pretty solid barring compensating for the kick when you fire it. On paper the Grakata beats the Boltor, in practice if you told anyone that they would laugh in your face. On paper the Boar looks like the best shotgun by miles, in practice the majority of people prefer the Hek for its range (though I haven't touched it since the range shenanigans so I don't know how good that is anymore) or the Strun for more damage per shot, and the Boar goes unused. And on paper, though this is a cross-class comparison, the Burston has more dps than the Lex, but again if you told anyone that the Burston was better as a result they would similarly laugh in your face.

 

That said--I love my Bronco, I love my Twin Vipers, I love my Lato Vandal, and I love my Lex. They're all quite good weapons for the vast majority of the game even if vipers are clearly dominant.

 

 

Also it doesn't really matter how ammo hungry twin vipers are, ammo boxes are dirt cheap and will solve all your woes forever. Actually, I suspect this is in part why the Boar is so underappreciated--admittedly, even with ammo boxes it can kinda chew through ammo if you plan on taking it to defense, so... eh, it's a wash.

[HungerSTGF]

SICARUS ALL THE WAY

YOLO

[Phoenix86]

There are other weapons that can hit several targets with one swing while ignoring armor. Examples: heavy weapons (gram/scindo/fragor) with charge attacks, dual heat swords with charge attacks, Fragor with normal attacks...

 

They do, but they miss 1 thing dual ether does: AoE Stunlock ;)

[Eltoshan]

They do, but they miss 1 thing dual ether does: AoE Stunlock ;)

Yeah the constant stagger on Dual Ethers kinda owns.