I Died In Five Minutes On Mars-- Why Warframe's Difficulty Is Absurdly Anti-Fun

[Riot_Inducer]

New Loka assassins are really the problem, they are REALLY bad compared to any other assassin squad out there.

 

Indeed. Sure things like ice levels, random poorly balanced enemies like Detron Crewman etc. can all cause noticeable spikes in difficulty in the game. But the new loka death squads are so far out of line in comparison to the other death squads it's unreal. 

 

Most of the problem is that in addition to being eximus' of an already rather durable unit they all get the baseline ancient healer aura. So not only are they massively durable by default but they get massive damage reduction on top of it and damaging any one of them actually buffs the others. Then slap on 2-3x energy leech & toxic auras and it's one painful surprise party to have dropped on your head. 

[(PSN)VariantX7]

'Learn what?'

Learn that they should move out of the range to prevent procs.

 

'Just RNG.'

As I said before, just get over it. Assassins are going to spawn randomly because they want to assassinate you. They are not going to give you invitation. I died the first 2 times when Stalker spawned. Did I complain? No. I went and read about him. Next time he spawned, I fought him well and got Dread.

 

'They aren't even high enough in MR to even decide if they want to take that risk or not and participate in syndicates.'

If they didn't decide, then why do that have negative standing for any syndicate? Last time I checked, players were not forced to wear Sigils, without which they don't get any standing.

1) If a toxic ancient is above or below you or on the other side of a wall, you don't know its there do you? You could just die from that aura coming down an elevator.

2) People will just get over it by not playing the game anymore 

3) You have to be rank 3 to participate in syndicates. If a player who is MR3 or  higher decides to go back to a low level planet for any reason whatsoever, then hit squads will have a chance to appear if that MR3+ player is in a syndicate and has enough negative rep to have hitsquads come after them, reguardless of what the other players have done. 

[Liminal]

 

'Just RNG.'

As I said before, just get over it. Assassins are going to spawn randomly because they want to assassinate you. They are not going to give you invitation. I died the first 2 times when Stalker spawned. Did I complain? No. I went and read about him. Next time he spawned, I fought him well and got Dread.

ie: "I had high level equipment".

There's barely any "fighting well" in this game, there's (mostly) gear checks. Players shouldn't be forced to always carry a "stalker-killer" gun around. We have the option to start from the bottom using only low level stuff, and it's a gameplay option that should be catered for.

 

You can mitigate hitscan with rolling. It does give you DR frames when in the animation. Use it to escape a crossfire.

 

As for the procs, if you get hit with it from an unknown source, get the hell away from where it hit you. That shouldn't need to be said, but apparently it does. Get distance, evaluate the situation and deal with it. It's called, like, learning and stuff.

You can roll yes, but rolling means you're not killing, and it also means you started rolling before you took fire since hitscan is instantaneous. Why were you even rolling before that Seeker that spawned in the room behind you shot without any kind of warning?

Speaking of the procs through walls: what do you get away from? Which wall? Do you even know where it came from?

 

Anyway: being able to survive isn't the point, the point is fairness and proportionate punishment. Being punished for doing nothing wrong isn't cool, that's like this game that sucked hard called Warface... enemies could headshot you with hitscan fire in pve. It was bad design in a nutshell.

Edited June 22, 2015 by The_Doc

[NN13]

1) If a toxic ancient is above or below you or on the other side of a wall, you don't know its there do you? You could just die from that aura coming down an elevator.

2) People will just get over it by not playing the game anymore 

3) You have to be rank 3 to participate in syndicates. If a player who is MR3 or  higher decides to go back to a low level planet for any reason whatsoever, then hit squads will have a chance to appear if that MR3+ player is in a syndicate and has enough negative rep to have hitsquads come after them, reguardless of what the other players have done. 

1). But I do know there is something somewhere that is draining my health/energy and that I should have the common sense to run away from that spot. One proc does not kill you until and unless you are using Unranked Warframe with not Health mods against high level enemies.

 

2). Just theory. If that was the case, Warframe would have been dead by now because 70% of Warframe is based on RNG. But, for some reason, Warframe is still in the top 15 Steam games, I believe.

 

3). Then, just change the Hit Squads to affect the player they are after, like Stalker, instead of trying to remove their aura effect because someone had the bright idea of melee'ing them.

[NN13]

 

 

ie: "I had high level equipment".

There's barely any "fighting well" in this game, there's (mostly) gear checks. Players shouldn't be forced to always carry a "stalker-killer" gun around. We have the option to start from the bottom using only low level stuff, and it's a gameplay option that should be catered for.

 

You can roll yes, but rolling means you're not killing, and it also means you started rolling before you took fire since hitscan is instantaneous. Why were you even rolling before that Seeker that spawned in the room behind you shot without any kind of warning?

Speaking of the procs through walls: what do you get away from? Which wall? Do you even know where it came from?

 

Anyway: being able to survive isn't the point, the point is fairness and proportionate punishment. Being punished for doing nothing wrong isn't cool, that's like this game that sucked hard called Warface... enemies could headshot you with hitscan fire in pve. It was bad design in a nutshell.

 

Where did I say I had high level equipment when I met him the 3rd time? Stop assuming things. I used Fangs(I was really new, that was the only decent weapon I had). Though I will admit that at that time, he didn't have Dispel. But nonetheless, he did do huge amount of damage. I rolled, dodged and blocked.

 

Obviously, I didn't roll before I saw a seeker. And if he shot me from behind, I think he deserves to kill me, since he successfully flanked me. Even then, a single proc won't kill you. And if you have something like Nyx, you can instantly drop Absorb to stop deadly proc(what I have been trying to tell OP and he wouldn't listen). Otherwise, use a restore. You are given the restores to use them in emergency. If you don't use them, its on you.

 

'Speaking of the procs through walls: what do you get away from? Which wall? Do you even know where it came from?'

Run in any direction until your Proc indicator disappears. Warframe are fast enough to travel 20m before you get another proc and die.

 

'Being punished for doing nothing wrong isn't cool'

Clearly, what you did wrong was get inside enemies proc radius and stayed(in OP's case, at least).

[NN13]

You know what guys...I am pretty tired trying to teach you guys about tactics to survive.

 

Why am I even trying when clearly, some of you don't want to use those tactics, even going to the length of making a video??!!

 

Just wishing you guys good luck next time you get assassin squad and again someone opens a thread like this.

 

Frankly, I don't really care if DE nerfs or straightaway removes these AoE and Auras(Though DE probably won't). Easier for me I suppose. I can just 'cheese' through even more with my 'meta' built warframes and weapons.

Edited June 22, 2015 by NN13

[Liminal]

You know what guys...I am pretty tired trying to teach you guys about tactics to survive.

And I'm tired of trying to explain fair game mechanics.

 

I haven't died in ages. Don't assume we don't know how to play. It still doesn't mean the game has challenge and difficulty right, because it doesn't.

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

You know what guys...I am pretty tired trying to teach you guys about tactics to survive.

 

Why am I even trying when clearly, some of you don't want to use those tactics, even going to the length of making a video??!!

 

Just wishing you guys good luck next time you get assassin squad and again someone opens a thread like this.

 

Frankly, I don't really care if DE nerfs or straightaway removes these AoE and Auras(Though DE probably won't). Easier for me I suppose. I can just 'cheese' through even more with my 'meta' built warframes and weapons.

You said one post before that if a seeker, an enemy that spawns in high numbers from all sides with a hitscan weapon, manages to hit you you should deserve to die. Your concept of fun is what most of us would consider cheap. Therefore yes, you are wasting your breath because we simply don't enjoy these things.

[Liminal]

Where did I say I had high level equipment when I met him the 3rd time? Stop assuming things. I used Fangs(I was really new, that was the only decent weapon I had). Though I will admit that at that time, he didn't have Dispel. But nonetheless, he did do huge amount of damage. I rolled, dodged and blocked.

Nowadays you can't melee the Stalker if you are not pretty well equipped, so I'd say that's irrelevant then. Every attack stumbles you and your stamina bar disappears in one and a half hits if you block.

 

Obviously, I didn't roll before I saw a seeker. And if he shot me from behind, I think he deserves to kill me, since he successfully flanked me. Even then, a single proc won't kill you. And if you have something like Nyx, you can instantly drop Absorb to stop deadly proc(what I have been trying to tell OP and he wouldn't listen). Otherwise, use a restore. You are given the restores to use them in emergency. If you don't use them, its on you.

Considering enemies spawn in rooms you just cleared, I don't think that's precisely "fair". Also, one enemy flanking you once makes you deserve death? I didn't know this was Dark Souls. Proportionate punishment is important.

Oh and single Seeker proc can definitely kill you.

I'm not even talking about the OP's case, as I mentioned before it only highlights some of the things WF does wrong.

 

'Speaking of the procs through walls: what do you get away from? Which wall? Do you even know where it came from?'

Run in any direction until your Proc indicator disappears. Warframe are fast enough to travel 20m before you get another proc and die.

And if that first tick procced? Why do you deserve a free status that you couldn't have ever foreseen?

Edited June 22, 2015 by The_Doc

[Onisa]

'As do Nullifiers, and slash procs, and toxin procs, and mutalist moas, and ancients, and...'

So, what do you suggest? remove each of those?

Don't criticize only, give suggestions as well.

I am not saying Warframe enemies are perfect. They are not. But being unprepared is not an excuse either.

Nullifiers = Shoot(Though these guys need to stop making single shot weapons useless)

Slash Procs = Dodge enough/ use cover to avoid.

Toxin Procs = Don't go near Toxic Ancients.

Mutalist Moa = Dodge.

Ancient = I agree. They are annoying with their 100% hook accuracy.

 

Just because you need newer tactics doesn't essentially make these enemies bad.

 

I tried out by taking 5 ticks from Level 70 Venomous Healers a few minutes ago in the Simulacrum on my nyx and survived without rolling.

Wondering how I did it? I just went into Absorb the moment I got a tick and stayed till the proc ended. Tactics. People should try these sometimes instead of complaining.

 

Assassins spawning will be based on RNG. Get over it. This is how the game designed those enemies. They are assassins. The idea is that they will hit you when you are at your weakest. How is that logic difficult to understand?

 

1). I was talking about OP. He melee'ed them. Hard to believe they were out of sight. And Syndicate assassins spawn in large groups in the same place. Pretty hard not to see them, considering the fact that OP said they spawned at the door of the room.

 

2). OP needed the whole duration of 3 light flickers to pop a Life Support. Not buying it, sorry. As I said, think of the situation before you put it as an argument. Missing a flicker is OP's fault. Game gives you enough cue to escape.

 

3). I have no idea what you are talking about here. I just said that if you don't have the power to defeat the enemy, escape. How hard it is to understand?

 

 Read the other posts. OP clearly said in one of the posts that he was not using Redirection and Vitality.(Wrong, my bad)

4). OP didn't use Primed Flow. You are using that. So what was he using on that slot? Marathon? Maglev? Intruder? Warm Coat?

With your build, I can very well kill a squad of level 40 ancient eximi.

Well, its OP's choice if he decides to use those mods, but then, he would have to figure out what to do in such circumstances.

Its Meta because its needed. If you want to have challenge, who is stopping you to go in without any mod equipped. But, then, you have to devise your strategy yourself instead of complaining.

 

5). Do any of your guns DON'T use Serration or Hornet Strike? They don't right? Thats Meta as well, right? So, might as well remove those mods.

Vocal Minority use Fleeting Expertise and Flow? I think you are new to the game or you are purposefully saying it, knowing what is the truth. Might want to check your facts.

Why don't you go in a mission bare-hand, with no mods on your warframe? You can complain then as well.

Obviously, you will get a kick in the teeth if you fill up your Warframe slots with Intruder and Warm Coat while going against Grustag 3.

So, what do you suggest? remove each of those?

Don't criticize only, give suggestions as well.

Basically what's in the brackets.

Slash and Toxic procs: I have mentioned in threads on the topic that the RNG nature of how much damage per tic they deal should go. It's bad when you die in three tics because you got a little too close to an environmental feature that is randomly hazardous.

Oh, right, dodge into bees. Dodge into bees. Dodge into bees. Dodge into bees. And did I mention, dodge into bees? The game is so pretty when you can't see it.

I'd actually prefer they not self buff and stack auras, but being hooked through a wall gets old too I suppose.

 

None of those things require tactics beyond MOAR DPS though. Perhaps a little CC to taste.

 

Oh? Have they changed that? Although I wouldn't be surprised if it were merely a glitch in the Simulacrum given some 'hotfixes'.

Though I am curious how many parasitics you had reducing your efficiency. I'm also surprised no one has mentioned how you're testing in a vacuum.

 

You do know that the non syndicate assassins scale, right? As far as they only spawn at your weakest, the last hit squad I saw came after a Rhino Prime with a Boltor Prime. RNG is RNG, it doesn't care if you just forma'd everything, but spawns then tend to be more memorable than just pasting Stalker again.

 

 

1) You asked me to answer those questions and I did so with the information that I had and personal experience.

 

2) I'm thinking back to all the times my screen has flickered because I walked through a door. Or the times there was suddenly angry meatballs with no noticeable flickers before, for me or my three team mates. Again, these are my personal experiences. I've also seen a hit squad spawn in a doorway between rooms, effectively hiding a decent portion of their members. And again, without knowing what tiles he was traversing neither of us can really make a call on thee validity of my suggestion.

 

3) I was comparing your suggested course of action with OP's course of action. For someone who keeps telling me to think before I type you don't seem to be doing much of it yourself. Either that or you're simply not reading what I'm typing.

 

4) You were the one who insinuated both mods were mandatory on a maxed out Nyx.

I very well know how to challenge myself, and had no problems doing so before. My problem is when people with more forma then sense complain loud enough that the whole game's difficulty curve get's steeper.

 

5) Again, I have the common sense that if one of those mods make things die faster than I want them to then I can remove the mod.

Did you even read what I wrote before you knee jerked this reply out? I mean, seriously.

Though if you really like all the cheap difficulty the DEvs keep adding who am I to tell you to stop bending over and telling the game 'thank you sir, can I have another?'

 

Obviously, you will get a kick in the teeth if you fill up your Warframe slots with Intruder and Warm Coat while going against Grustag 3.

I accidentally brought my obstacle coarse giggles Loki to Earth looking for eggs once, soloing to ensure I could check every cranny for nests.

Lookie what I found instead.

[fatpig84]

I can empathize OP on his stroke of bad luck.

But I can't empathize with his mistake for playing with 2 unranked weapons.

 

Look you are experienced.

If you got 4 syndicates, G3, Zanuka and Stalker wanting for your blood, you should know that you definitely need at least 1 good weapon along with you at all times. Be it a really OPed melee (Tipedo, Scindo Prime, Primed reach Orthos Prime etc kind of melee) or a sidearm of choice.

 

I will never solo unprepared. And I solo often. All my syndicate dallies are soloed.

I even had G3 dropped on me in a Phobos interception and ancients in a 9k rept defence.

That is level 40+ ancients right that. Still down em like a boss though.

 

 

But syndicate assassins can be an issue for anyone below MR5.

So I would suggest to DE to at least make sure the person is at least MR5 before dropping syndicate assassins on them.

So they would have being suitably ranked to defend themselves.

 

Of course, they will still encounter them if they partnered with someone higher or equal to MR5s.

Edited June 23, 2015 by fatpig84

[NN13]

And I'm tired of trying to explain fair game mechanics.

 

I haven't died in ages. Don't assume we don't know how to play. It still doesn't mean the game has challenge and difficulty right, because it doesn't.

If you didn't die in ages, why are you complaining?

Clearly, here OP died because of him not being prepared at ALL and not using any kind of tactics, instead just face-tanking the assassin squad.

 

You said one post before that if a seeker, an enemy that spawns in high numbers from all sides with a hitscan weapon, manages to hit you you should deserve to die. Your concept of fun is what most of us would consider cheap. Therefore yes, you are wasting your breath because we simply don't enjoy these things.

I did say we deserve to die. But in reality, we don't.

You say everything as if you encountered the Syndicate squads for the first time. Why didn't you think of complaining about their auras when you were using fully modded weapons? Because you were prepared?

 

 

Nowadays you can't melee the Stalker if you are not pretty well equipped, so I'd say that's irrelevant then. Every attack stumbles you and your stamina bar disappears in one and a half hits if you block.

 

 

Considering enemies spawn in rooms you just cleared, I don't think that's precisely "fair". Also, one enemy flanking you once makes you deserve death? I didn't know this was Dark Souls. Proportionate punishment is important.

Oh and single Seeker proc can definitely kill you.

I'm not even talking about the OP's case, as I mentioned before it only highlights some of the things WF does wrong.

 

 

And if that first tick procced? Why do you deserve a free status that you couldn't have ever foreseen?

 

I still sometimes melee Stalker. I admit it is more difficult now, but nonetheless I still do. Sometimes, I die, sometimes I kill. Maybe you should try to melee him sometimes instead of just unloading your Soma/ Boltor Prime magazine on him.

 

'Also, one enemy flanking you once makes you deserve death?'

Do I deserve death? IMO, yes.

Do I die in such circumstances? No.

 

'Oh and single Seeker proc can definitely kill you.'

At what level?

Because a level 52 Arid Seeker slash proc was not enough to kill my Fully modded Nyx day before yesterday. And if you are not using your fully modded frames at level 52, then you certainly need to re-evaluate your modding schemes.

 

'I'm not even talking about the OP's case, as I mentioned before it only highlights some of the things WF does wrong.'

As I said, I agree that Warframe does use wrong ideas in more than a few enemies. But Syndicate Assassins squad is far from it. In THIS particular case, it really was OP's faults.

 

'And if that first tick procced? Why do you deserve a free status that you couldn't have ever foreseen?'

 

How many times do you even encounter situations where you didn't see a Venomous Ancient?

I play the so much, yet there are merely a handful of times when I fail to see a Venomous Ancient, mainly because the surrounding mobs also give indications about the presence of a Venomous Ancient. maybe you just need to keep your eyes open?

And even if I get procced, I always use something to survive, be it sitting in Absorb or dropping a Health Restore.

[NN13]

So, with only one venomous eximi and not three, and with primed flow and fleeting expertise, you were successful through sitting in absorb. Now do that with 225 energy, no efficiency mods, and three venomous eximi, and I'll be impressed. Although it really doesn't change the point.

 

 

So, what do you suggest? remove each of those?

Don't criticize only, give suggestions as well.

Basically what's in the brackets.

Slash and Toxic procs: I have mentioned in threads on the topic that the RNG nature of how much damage per tic they deal should go. It's bad when you die in three tics because you got a little too close to an environmental feature that is randomly hazardous.

Oh, right, dodge into bees. Dodge into bees. Dodge into bees. Dodge into bees. And did I mention, dodge into bees? The game is so pretty when you can't see it.

I'd actually prefer they not self buff and stack auras, but being hooked through a wall gets old too I suppose.

 

None of those things require tactics beyond MOAR DPS though. Perhaps a little CC to taste.

 

Oh? Have they changed that? Although I wouldn't be surprised if it were merely a glitch in the Simulacrum given some 'hotfixes'.

Though I am curious how many parasitics you had reducing your efficiency. I'm also surprised no one has mentioned how you're testing in a vacuum.

 

You do know that the non syndicate assassins scale, right? As far as they only spawn at your weakest, the last hit squad I saw came after a Rhino Prime with a Boltor Prime. RNG is RNG, it doesn't care if you just forma'd everything, but spawns then tend to be more memorable than just pasting Stalker again.

 

 

1) You asked me to answer those questions and I did so with the information that I had and personal experience.

 

2) I'm thinking back to all the times my screen has flickered because I walked through a door. Or the times there was suddenly angry meatballs with no noticeable flickers before, for me or my three team mates. Again, these are my personal experiences. I've also seen a hit squad spawn in a doorway between rooms, effectively hiding a decent portion of their members. And again, without knowing what tiles he was traversing neither of us can really make a call on thee validity of my suggestion.

 

3) I was comparing your suggested course of action with OP's course of action. For someone who keeps telling me to think before I type you don't seem to be doing much of it yourself. Either that or you're simply not reading what I'm typing.

 

4) You were the one who insinuated both mods were mandatory on a maxed out Nyx.

I very well know how to challenge myself, and had no problems doing so before. My problem is when people with more forma then sense complain loud enough that the whole game's difficulty curve get's steeper.

 

5) Again, I have the common sense that if one of those mods make things die faster than I want them to then I can remove the mod.

Did you even read what I wrote before you knee jerked this reply out? I mean, seriously.

Though if you really like all the cheap difficulty the DEvs keep adding who am I to tell you to stop bending over and telling the game 'thank you sir, can I have another?'

 

 

 

I accidentally brought my obstacle coarse giggles Loki to Earth looking for eggs once, soloing to ensure I could check every cranny for nests.

Lookie what I found instead.

 

My build for Nyx -

 

I did not use a single Corrupted mod and I was unable to come up with a worse setup than this. If OP can, just give me your worst Nyx Build and I will try to use it to fight melee only with the Eximi.

 

And my Gameplay in Simulacrum with 10 Level 40 Ancient Eximi, 2 of them being Venomous. Using just Prisma Skana.

 

 

As you can see from the video, I did get a Toxin proc, but I survived.

 

Impressed OP?

 

@Onisa, what were you saying about mandatory mods on Nyx and 'MOAR DPS' again?

 

'I accidentally brought my obstacle coarse giggles Loki to Earth looking for eggs once, soloing to ensure I could check every cranny for nests.

Lookie what I found instead.'

Your reward screen does not prove anything. There is no way to know what mods you were using.

 

'Though I am curious how many parasitics you had reducing your efficiency. I'm also surprised no one has mentioned how you're testing in a vacuum.'

You need to check your facts before you go into an argument or debate. Or use Nyx more, maybe. Auras don't affect in Absorb mode.

Edited June 23, 2015 by NN13

[NN13]

Know what guys, while doing my daily raid, I thought why give you guys examples of modding bad.

I will just give you example of fighting Eximi units with the worst possible modding scheme on my Nyx - I will go without ANY mod.

 

The video below shows me fighting 10 Level 40 Ancients healer eximi, with 3 Venomous eximi.

 

The special thing in this particular video is that -

1. I am not using a single mod on my Nyx, no Arcane Helmet as well. I have included my loadout in the video itself, at the last.

2. I am not using my sentinel, therefore, there is no one helping me kill, unlike my previous videos.

 

 

What were you guys saying about 'difficulty being absurd' , 'modding for cheesing' , following 'meta' , 'MOAR DPS' ?

 

Impressed enough, OP?

 

All OP had to freaking do in his situation was to sit in absorb till his energy ran out, killing most of the Ancients. Otherwise, he always had the option to run away.

 

Now, before anyone screams at me for using Level 40 Eximi, I based my level from the screenshot in the quote below. It shows a level 35 Venomous Eximus, so I just went on and used level 40.

 

New Loka assassins are really the problem, they are REALLY bad compared to any other assassin squad out there.

 

Edited June 23, 2015 by NN13

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

Because sitting in absorb isn't cheesing? I wasn't at max energy and, because there was only one toxic eximi immediately present, used half of what I had on chaos and mind control and, according to you, this meant I deserved to die? In that video, with the same attack pattern as the one before, dumb luck had you lose over 100 health on several procs, where you only got procced once on the video before. That seems fair?

Again, it seems like you're deliberately missing the point.

[NN13]

Because sitting in absorb isn't cheesing? I wasn't at max energy and, because there was only one toxic eximi immediately present, used half of what I had on chaos and mind control and, according to you, this meant I deserved to die? In that video, with the same attack pattern as the one before, dumb luck had you lose over 100 health on several procs, where you only got procced once on the video before. That seems fair?

Again, it seems like you're deliberately missing the point.

You certainly are a tough guy to impress. Well, keep going on your way of playing and good luck with that.

 

'In that video, with the same attack pattern as the one before, dumb luck had you lose over 100 health on several procs,'

 

First, I didn't lose 100+ health because of Toxin Proc. I lost more health because of Fire AoE.

 

Second, you probably should consider the fact that I had not a single mod on Nyx. Its pretty obvious for me to lose that much health.

 

Third, if you look closely, I was deliberately not blocking with Melee, whereas, I was blocking with melee in all previous videos. That is the reason why I got pulled by hook and couldn't go into absorb faster. That is because I wanted to see if those ancients can One-Hit kill me without any mod. I didn't feel like explaining that because I thought it was not relevant.

 

'That seems fair?'

Yes, because it was my fault if I wasn't blocking to avoid being pulled.

 

'I wasn't at max energy'

Your Problem, not mine or the game's. Use a energy restore.

 

'Because sitting in absorb isn't cheesing?'

So, sitting in Absorb WITHOUT a single mod on my Nyx is also called Cheesing? If that is the case, I would have to say that this game needs to be played by 'cheesing'. Do me a favor and please tell me what is 'NOT cheesing', then?

Because I am not sure how am I supposed to handicap myself more than what I already did. No guns, no mods on frame, just a melee with small range.

What did you want me to do? Face-Tank level 40 Eximi with no mods? Hell, face-tank them even if I a Redirection and Vitality?

This is exactly where you are wrong. Valkyr is supposed to face-tank, not Nyx.

As for using Absorb, it depends on the situation. If I was playing Loki with no mods, I would have gone invisible and melee'ed them,while channeling(thus gaining health from Life Strike).

 

'Again, it seems like you're deliberately missing the point.'

Always playing this game. Did the same in your Energy-Nerf thread. Not gonna work.

 

Anyway, I suppose it is fair that it is hard to believe 'Difficulty is absurd in Warframe' for a guy who just melee-killed a bunch of 'Ancient Eximi on steroids' without a single mod on his Nyx. Atleast, in case of Syndicate Death Squads, that is.

[ValkyrWF]

If you want to level gear up, don't go straight for a mid-level area. You're going to wind up relying more on your Warframe skills than your weapons (Assuming you're levelling weapons and not your frame) and you're going to severely cut the XP gained for your weapons.

 

I've been playing a long time, and whenever I want to level stuff up and don't have some friends to ferry me through a place like Draco, I always start out on Mercury, move to Venus, and then after I have some mod points to better my gear I'll start to venture into mid-level areas.

Best place to level stuff up is likely Lua, Earth.

 

Actually, I do Sechura, Pluto for leveling though.

[Onisa]

@Onisa, what were you saying about mandatory mods on Nyx and 'MOAR DPS' again?

 

'I accidentally brought my obstacle coarse giggles Loki to Earth looking for eggs once, soloing to ensure I could check every cranny for nests.

Lookie what I found instead.'

Your reward screen does not prove anything. There is no way to know what mods you were using.

 

'Though I am curious how many parasitics you had reducing your efficiency. I'm also surprised no one has mentioned how you're testing in a vacuum.'

You need to check your facts before you go into an argument or debate. Or use Nyx more, maybe. Auras don't affect in Absorb mode.

Is English not your first language or do you not know what insinuated means? You made the statement that a frame was unmaxed because it wasn't modded a certain way. I refuted your statement. Either read and comprehend what I am typing, or stop attempting to reply.

 

None of your 'tactics' posted get the job done better than simple, brain dead, 'MOAR DPS'. If you are still unsure about what I mean by this, ask an adult.

 

Silly me, expecting you to come to the conclusion that an 'obstacle course giggles' build would be any and all stamina and speed mods I could cram onto a single frame. I suppose I gave you too much credit. But here, a visual aid.

Yes, this was more than enough to wipe the floor with G3 on Earth. Perhaps because they scale?

 

 

If you didn't die in ages, why are you complaining?

Clearly, here OP died because of him not being prepared at ALL and not using any kind of tactics, instead just face-tanking the assassin squad.

One does not have to fall victim to something to realize it's a problem.

 

 

'Oh and single Seeker proc can definitely kill you.'

At what level?

Because a level 52 Arid Seeker slash proc was not enough to kill my Fully modded Nyx day before yesterday. And if you are not using your fully modded frames at level 52, then you certainly need to re-evaluate your modding schemes.

Were you playing during the Frontier Eviserator fiasco when Earth was set to the default planet for newbies? If you were you should know that level has little to do with the damage a slash proc deals per tic. Given DE's solution was to lessen the encounter rate with the mob most likely to inflict slash rather than fix slash procs I'm going to assume slash procs are still the same broken mess they were before.

 

 

How many times do you even encounter situations where you didn't see a Venomous Ancient?

I play the so much, yet there are merely a handful of times when I fail to see a Venomous Ancient, mainly because the surrounding mobs also give indications about the presence of a Venomous Ancient. maybe you just need to keep your eyes open?

And even if I get procced, I always use something to survive, be it sitting in Absorb or dropping a Health Restore.

I was once told in all seriousness that the yellow ring given by venomous auras was actually an indicator that an ancient could hook me. This came from another 'experienced' player that said everyone who was complaining about over powered venomous auras extending through walls should just 'git gud'.

It is nice to see you admit they can be missed though.

[Letter13]

Best place to level stuff up is likely Lua, Earth.

 

Actually, I do Sechura, Pluto for leveling though.

Once you've been around the block and have experience, it's definitely possible to level gear up at higher level areas.

Though you should always take at least one maxed gun so that you can at least kill things.

[(PSN)BlackGuyver82]

If your lvling weapons take banashee or slow Nova makes lvling alot easier.

[Liminal]

If you didn't die in ages, why are you complaining?

Clearly, here OP died because of him not being prepared at ALL and not using any kind of tactics, instead just face-tanking the assassin squad.

Again. It's not about the OP's case, it's about difficulty done wrong. OP suffered a few of those at the same time and it complicated his run beyond the appropriate level.

I'm "complaining" because WF's difficulty is too often decided by rng, and that's objectively bad difficulty.

 

I still sometimes melee Stalker. I admit it is more difficult now, but nonetheless I still do. Sometimes, I die, sometimes I kill. Maybe you should try to melee him sometimes instead of just unloading your Soma/ Boltor Prime magazine on him.

I prefer running with a Hek or a Quanta, but sure, go ahead and try to discredit me by implying "boltor prime noob".

And I'm not saying it's impossible, but it's ridiculous to lunge at him with a rank 6 Kama (for example).

 

'Also, one enemy flanking you once makes you deserve death?'

Do I deserve death? IMO, yes.

You have a very skewed view on proportionate punishment.

We have hundreds of shield and hp points, so the game shouldn't really be a "one mistake equals death" kind of game.

 

'Oh and single Seeker proc can definitely kill you.'

At what level?

Because a level 52 Arid Seeker slash proc was not enough to kill my Fully modded Nyx day before yesterday. And if you are not using your fully modded frames at level 52, then you certainly need to re-evaluate your modding schemes.

Stop trying to patronize me, my builds are fine. Arid Seekers are not Seekers, they use Vipers.

Go to Ceres and take a proc from a Seeker wielding a Kraken. Or even better, from a Ballista.

 

'I'm not even talking about the OP's case, as I mentioned before it only highlights some of the things WF does wrong.'

As I said, I agree that Warframe does use wrong ideas in more than a few enemies. But Syndicate Assassins squad is far from it. In THIS particular case, it really was OP's faults.

I don't really care about OP's case. The point is the game has to cater for the option of using low level stuff and it doesn't. It lets you use unranked stuff and then drops a pack of Ospreys in your defense mission (that's an example btw).

 

'And if that first tick procced? Why do you deserve a free status that you couldn't have ever foreseen?'

 

How many times do you even encounter situations where you didn't see a Venomous Ancient?

I play the so much, yet there are merely a handful of times when I fail to see a Venomous Ancient, mainly because the surrounding mobs also give indications about the presence of a Venomous Ancient. maybe you just need to keep your eyes open?

And even if I get procced, I always use something to survive, be it sitting in Absorb or dropping a Health Restore.

 

In infested tilesets I often get the circle around my feet before I see the guy. But it doesn't even matter how often it happens, the point is it shouldn't happen at all. Auras should require LoS.

We should be able to be counter all enemy mechanics 100% of the time. Then you can claim the problem is the player.

Edited June 23, 2015 by The_Doc

[NN13]

Is English not your first language or do you not know what insinuated means? You made the statement that a frame was unmaxed because it wasn't modded a certain way. I refuted your statement. Either read and comprehend what I am typing, or stop attempting to reply.

 

None of your 'tactics' posted get the job done better than simple, brain dead, 'MOAR DPS'. If you are still unsure about what I mean by this, ask an adult.

 

Silly me, expecting you to come to the conclusion that an 'obstacle course giggles' build would be any and all stamina and speed mods I could cram onto a single frame. I suppose I gave you too much credit. But here, a visual aid.

Yes, this was more than enough to wipe the floor with G3 on Earth. Perhaps because they scale?

 

 

One does not have to fall victim to something to realize it's a problem.

 

 

Were you playing during the Frontier Eviserator fiasco when Earth was set to the default planet for newbies? If you were you should know that level has little to do with the damage a slash proc deals per tic. Given DE's solution was to lessen the encounter rate with the mob most likely to inflict slash rather than fix slash procs I'm going to assume slash procs are still the same broken mess they were before.

 

 

I was once told in all seriousness that the yellow ring given by venomous auras was actually an indicator that an ancient could hook me. This came from another 'experienced' player that said everyone who was complaining about over powered venomous auras extending through walls should just 'git gud'.

It is nice to see you admit they can be missed though.

First, no, English is not my first language. Is that a problem? Because this is a global game with people playing all over the world.

Always assuming that everyone who talks to you on this Forum is English-speaking is pretty @(*()$ insulting to people speaking other languages. Or should I say ' the assumption is insinuating in itself'. And to be honest, I am pretty sure I speak English pretty good. I may not be very good at Vocabs like you, since English is not my mother-tongue, but atleast I don't write broken sentences without punctuations, like many do.

 

And it seems you did not understand the fact that all the videos I posted were not showing all 'tactics' but was showing the way to kill. I could have have very well double-tapped 4 , knocked over the ancients and escaped(though escaping in the Simulacrum doesn't make sense).

 

And DPS= Damage per SECOND. My Absorb relied on total damage accumulated. If I didn't use damage from my Absorb, be my guest and tell me a way to kill the enemies without using Damage/DPS.

 

Oh,btw, I am an adult. Who doesn't confuse every damage source with DPS.

 

I wasn't talking about your Loki build. I was trying to convey the message that your result screenshot doesn't prove that you fought with a loki without any good mod, like my videos. It is my fault for not being clear. Sorry about that.

But, Your Screenshot still doesn't prove that you used that build to take on G3. But I will give the benefit of doubt and believe you, because when I see your build and the weapons you had, I feel it won't be too hard to take on G3. Because a well modded Despair can very well tear through any Grineer unit.

Especially, seeing that I can take on a group of ancients with Venom aura without any mod, Loki wouldn't break a sweat with his Invisibility.

 

'One does not have to fall victim to something to realize it's a problem.'

Sometimes, one does need to fall victim to similar circumstances to realize a problem.

 

You do realize that proc damage does depend on level of enemy?

And yes, I was there during Eviscerator fiasco. I have been here from U9.

But what you are not realizing is that Eviscerator were too powerful as a normal mob. Here,OP is talking about Assassins. Enemies,who are supposed to be as powerful as a boss or at least a mini-boss. By that standard, I have to say that Syndicate Assassins are pretty easy.

 

First, yellow aura is from Caustic Eximi. Venomous Eximi aura is dark green. And unlike the other 'experienced' player, you can believe me on this one.

Second, Warframe has many 'experienced' player. That is exactly why new players should face the enemies themselves, instead of hearing from the 'Experienced' players. That is exactly how I learned the whole game. And that is why I am more of an experienced player ,rather than an 'experienced' player. Not that I know every small thing about Warframe, but I certainly don't give my opinions about things I don't know.

[NN13]

Again. It's not about the OP's case, it's about difficulty done wrong. OP suffered a few of those at the same time and it complicated his run beyond the appropriate level.

I'm "complaining" because WF's difficulty is too often decided by rng, and that's objectively bad difficulty.

 

I prefer running with a Hek or a Quanta, but sure, go ahead and try to discredit me by implying "boltor prime noob".

And I'm not saying it's impossible, but it's ridiculous to lunge at him with a rank 6 Kama (for example).

 

You have a very skewed view on proportionate punishment.

We have hundreds of shield and hp points, so the game shouldn't really be a "one mistake equals death" kind of game.

 

 

Stop trying to patronize me, my builds are fine. Arid Seekers are not Seekers, they use Vipers.

Go to Ceres and take a proc from a Seeker wielding a Kraken. Or even better, from a Ballista.

 

 

I don't really care about OP's case. The point is the game has to cater for the option of using low level stuff and it doesn't. It lets you use unranked stuff and then drops a pack of Ospreys in your defense mission (that's an example btw).

 

 

In infested tilesets I often get the circle around my feet before I see the guy. But it doesn't even matter how often it happens, the point is it shouldn't happen at all. Auras should require LoS.

We should be able to be counter all enemy mechanics 100% of the time. Then you can claim the problem is the player.

If it's not about OP's case, then you should stop quoting me. Because I am specifically talking about OP. And because I already agreed that in many cases, Warframe's difficulty is messed up. But that mess is certainly not what was OP's case.

 

And you are saying Hek and Quanta are not almost of same level as Boltor/Soma Prime?

I generally one-shot or at max,2- shot Stalker with my Hek. I don't have a catalyst on my Quanta, but my Quanta Vandal does the same to Stalker.

And never have I said that I melee Stalker with Rank 6 Kama, because that would be sure death.

 

Ok,fine, I take back what I said. The game should not be 'one mistake equals death'. And for most part, it isnt.

But the game should also not be 'mistakes upon mistakes is not equal to death'. Which is what most of Warframe is. and which is what OP wants assassins groups to be.

At least, I hope you would agree that assassins should be 'one mistake equals death'

 

Ballistas have slow firing weapons. They are rightfully powerful.

Though I play Ceres regularly, I am yet to have problems from Seekers with my build. Infact, most of the times, I don't even care about Seekers. Eviscerators give me more trouble.

But I will surely try out Seeker procs from Level 50 seekers in the Simulacrum and see if I die from one proc.

 

Sure the game lets you use unranked stuff. But the game certainly doesn't say that it will spawn low level enemies because you are using unranked stuff.

 

 

Does Saryn's Miasma require LoS? Then why should Venomous Aura?

Does Ember's Fire Blast require LoS? Then why should Caustic Eximi Aura?

 

Infact, if anything, I would like DE to add a indicator for Parasitic Eximi, like other Eximi have.

 

If we are able to counter every enemy mechanics, we will be god. And some players actually enjoy not being the god.

Edited June 23, 2015 by NN13

[Liminal]

 

If it's not about OP's case, then you should stop quoting me. Because I am specifically talking about OP. And because I already agreed that in many cases, Warframe's difficulty is messed up. But that mess is certainly not what was OP's case.

I'm quoting you because you are contradicting things I disagree with. You are the one bringing up OP's scenario when I said from the start I wasn't specifically talking about it.

 

And you are saying Hek and Quanta are not almost of same level as Boltor/Soma Prime?

I generally one-shot or at max,2- shot Stalker with my Hek. I don't have a catalyst on my Quanta, but my Quanta Vandal does the same to Stalker.

And never have I said that I melee Stalker with Rank 6 Kama, because that would be sure death.

They are powerful yes (the Quanta mostly), but no, they are not the same level. My point is that you were basically implying you are somehow more "hardcore" because you melee the guy instead of "owning him with op guns". And that is irrelevant.

 

 

Ok,fine, I take back what I said. The game should not be 'one mistake equals death'. And for most part, it isnt.

But the game should also not be 'mistakes upon mistakes is not equal to death'. Which is what most of Warframe is. and which is what OP wants assassins groups to be.

At least, I hope you would agree that assassins should be 'one mistake equals death'

Not really. It should punish you harder, make things more difficult, and require you to spend more resources, but not OHK (like say, get hooked by one ancient, get chain hooked, never get to break free from the endless CC before dying).
Anyways, I'm saying the game should let you drop in with all unranked gear with the guarantee of not getting irrevocably wrecked by a pack of Syndicate hunters.

 

Also, the fact that for the most part it isn't "one mistake = death" doesn't mean it doesn't ever happen. And it shouldn't ever. Only an accumulation of screw ups should result in death (I'm simplifying the concept of screw ups of course, you could say refusing to move is "just one screw up", I hope the meaning is clear enough).

 

Ballistas have slow firing weapons. They are rightfully powerful.

No. Slash procs are not fair. Ballistas are hitscan, getting shot isn't always avoidable, and that single shot can hit you and proc, and that's "free punishment" (and a pretty severe one). 

 

Sure the game lets you use unranked stuff. But the game certainly doesn't say that it will spawn low level enemies because you are using unranked stuff.

It should. Otherwise it's not a real option.

 

Does Saryn's Miasma require LoS? Then why should Venomous Aura?

Does Ember's Fire Blast require LoS? Then why should Caustic Eximi Aura?

Because the game is asymmetric PvE.

 

If we are able to counter every enemy mechanics, we will be god. And some players actually enjoy not being the god.

Hyperbole. Being able to avoid/counter an enemy's attack doesn't mean we will always manage to (humans are not perfect). What this means is making avoiding enemy abilites skill based instead of RNG based. It would be undeniably fair.

[NN13]

 

I'm quoting you because you are contradicting things I disagree with. You are the one bringing up OP's scenario when I said from the start I wasn't specifically talking about it.

 

I am the one who is always talking about OP's scenario here. I don't care if you are talking about OP or not. And if I am contradicting things you disagree on by using OP's example, then I would continue using OP's example.

 

 

They are powerful yes (the Quanta mostly), but no, they are not the same level. My point is that you were basically implying you are somehow more "hardcore" because you melee the guy instead of "owning him with op guns". And that is irrelevant.

 

After having 3000+ post in the Forums, you do realise that Some/Boltor Prime has become a metaphor for powerful weapons?

That is why I used those as examples.

And you clearly said said in your previous post that 'You can't melee Stalker now a days' implying that you don't melee him. I just refuted your point by saying that I do melee him, given I have a good enough melee weapon and not a Rank 6 Kama.

 

 

Not really. It should punish you harder, make things more difficult, and require you to spend more resources, but not OHK (like say, get hooked by one ancient, get chain hooked, never get to break free from the endless CC before dying).

Anyways, I'm saying the game should let you drop in with all unranked gear with the guarantee of not getting irrevocably wrecked by a pack of Syndicate hunters.

 

Also, the fact that for the most part it isn't "one mistake = death" doesn't mean it doesn't ever happen. And it shouldn't ever. Only an accumulation of screw ups should result in death (I'm simplifying the concept of screw ups of course, you could say refusing to move is "just one screw up", I hope the meaning is clear enough).

 

Then to each his own. IMO, assassins should kill you if you do one mistake. At most 2 or 3 maybe, if I were to be lenient. If you read all my post in this thread, you will see that in one post, I said that ancients hooks should not have 100% or near 100% accuracy.

But from my point of view, Auras are perfectly fine. Infact, auras don't even OHK you and give you enough scope to run away and drop a health restore to survive.

 

Also, assassins are supposed to hunt you when you are at your weakest, not when you have Hek and Brakk(another metaphor). That is exactly the idea of assassins.

As for normal mobs, they are low enough when you choose to drop in a mission with low level with unranked stuff. Again, in relation to OP, OP was not having problems before Assassins decided to spawn.

And you are not supposed to go to Ceres with unranked gear under normal circumstances. You should only go to ceres if you are good enough to survive.(Not implying that you are bad). I,for one, go to Sechura to level up my stuff.

 

And you are not supposed to simplify 'screw ups'. Not moving/ not taking cover is one of the biggest screw up in Warframe. Most people die because they try to face-tank everything, just like OP did.

 

It should. Otherwise it's not a real option.

 

It does spawn low level enemies when you go to low level planet. But you can not hope that the game will send you level 5 assassins group.

It might not be level 50, but it will certainly be level 35. And that is fair IMO.

 

Think of it from the enemies perspective. Why would the Grineer reduce there soldiers' rank in Ceres? Because you have unranked weapons? Doesn't make sense, right?

 

 

Because the game is asymmetric PvE.

That is exactly why Saryn does something like 300-500 damage per tick and ancient aura does 10-50 damage per tick. Until we reach really high levels atleast.

 

Then, the mess in enemy mechanism starts, which I am not denying at all. Due to broken armor/health/damage scaling at high levels, enemies start dealing more damage than us, which should not be the case.

 

Hyperbole. Being able to avoid/counter an enemy's attack doesn't mean we will always manage to (humans are not perfect). What this means is making avoiding enemy abilites skill based instead of RNG based. It would be undeniably fair.

Where exactly is the RNG in Toxin Proc?

You are screaming 'RNG,RNG' but Toxin procs almost immediately once you enter the range of Venom Ancient Aura. I fail to see the action of RNG in proc'ing Toxin ticks.

You can say RNG for Seeker procs, but then again, our guns use RNG for procs as well.

If I can proc slash with my Kraken, why can't the enemy?

Because the game is asymmetric PvE?

Game should be Asymmetric in the sense that Enemies do not do equal or more damage than us. It should not be asymmetric by giving us a mechanism and removing it entirely from enemies using the same gear. That is unfair towards enemies and unbalanced.

That is what Warframe was with Damage 1.0.

 

I still remember Warframe before Damage 2.0 was introduced. Enemies were pathetic. They were nothing, whereas we were Gods. No, I don't want that again.