Guides Of The Lotus ~ Program Launch Replies (Split From Original Faq)

[LordOda]

Pleasure to finally see the program go full-steam ahead. :)

 

Looking forward to seeing you all in game.

[Rexian]

Ok, granted, I may have only skimmed over the last 5 pages of this post or so...But I don't recall seeing anyone hating on the guides, or what they do...

Correct me if im wrong, but that doesn't at all seem to be what any of this is about. Personally I'm totally in favor of the whole program, i'm just offering my input.

As Unholy Trojan said there's people going on about it in relays and other chats, not just on the forums. The annoying part (for me at least as a junior guide) is that I'm unable to do anything about it, I can of course screenshot and send it to support/Danielle if it's offensive or harsh enough. But it's never gonna stop people from leaving sarcastic comments about the guides Warframe/Sigil.

 

On the other hand we've trolls, it doesn't matter how old this comments get, people don't stop doing it: Whenever someone asks "How do I leave this place/relay?" You're granted to have at least 1 "Alt-F4" or "You can't, you're stuck here forever". Now that might just be Larunda (EU), but in certain situations where chat is being bombarded with discussions and questions, I wouldn't mind Alt-F4ing the peoples game who answer that.

 

Other than that, It's enjoyable to read through comments both from guides and none guides here. Not everyone are aware of what guides do, both as in what they're and what they're for. But also as in how much they do, what questions they get and what people sometimes expect from them (which is sometimes way to much, for example people who expect you to just give away prime parts, having Void Keys for them to just tag along on or having so much platinum that we're able to gift everyone we see a "What stalker?" pack. Granted, last one is a bit of a over exaggeration. But people still ask you to give them platinum or buy them things, next warframe update questions and so on).

 

All in all, a ingame description of what a Guide of the Lotus is and stand for is really needed. Somewhere it'll be seen, A message like it've been mentioned could be something. But something that keeps poping up as well I'd say, loading screen or randomly desplayed on the Codex as mods and such are. I believe if done right, it'd catch a few eyes attention.

[Aigloblam]

As Unholy Trojan said there's people going on about it in relays and other chats, not just on the forums. The annoying part (for me at least as a junior guide) is that I'm unable to do anything about it, I can of course screenshot and send it to support/Danielle if it's offensive or harsh enough. But it's never gonna stop people from leaving sarcastic comments about the guides Warframe/Sigil.

 

On the other hand we've trolls, it doesn't matter how old this comments get, people don't stop doing it: Whenever someone asks "How do I leave this place/relay?" You're granted to have at least 1 "Alt-F4" or "You can't, you're stuck here forever". Now that might just be Larunda (EU), but in certain situations where chat is being bombarded with discussions and questions, I wouldn't mind Alt-F4ing the peoples game who answer that.

 

Other than that, It's enjoyable to read through comments both from guides and none guides here. Not everyone are aware of what guides do, both as in what they're and what they're for. But also as in how much they do, what questions they get and what people sometimes expect from them (which is sometimes way to much, for example people who expect you to just give away prime parts, having Void Keys for them to just tag along on or having so much platinum that we're able to gift everyone we see a "What stalker?" pack. Granted, last one is a bit of a over exaggeration. But people still ask you to give them platinum or buy them things, next warframe update questions and so on).

 

All in all, a ingame description of what a Guide of the Lotus is and stand for is really needed. Somewhere it'll be seen, A message like it've been mentioned could be something. But something that keeps poping up as well I'd say, loading screen or randomly desplayed on the Codex as mods and such are. I believe if done right, it'd catch a few eyes attention.

Loading Screen is a good idea. Every two or three Loading Screens, it could even be its own Diorama, so it actually catches the eye, instead of the text that people tend to just ignore.

 

 

How anybody could be against something like the Guides is just not something i can understand...

[(XBOX)SwagScapegoat]

As many have said this thread is for improvements to the program.

 

Many have mentioned advertisements of some sort.  Many new players particularly on consoles do not read the forum and as such do not know about the program.

 

Whether it is a MOTD on the relays of something on the login screen or something else, new members have to be informed that we are no trolls ourselves but here to help.

 

Imagine going onto the relay chat and seeing the rantings of many trolls (many badmouthing us lol) and then seeing a post from one of us saying we want to help.  Would you tend to believe our post or think it some sort of trap?

 

I truly want to help people enjoy this wonderful game as much as I do but need to be given a little more help in doing so.  I am not looking for any glory... but I would like to think that I am helping out more than I currently am.  At present, I only feel as if I have helped someone 20% of the time I visit the relay.  The other times there is either so much troll ranting that no one asks questions or we are simply ignored.

 

Two suggestion (sorry if they have been mentioned):

1.  Better advertise/promote our existence.  presence and purpose.  

2.  Make it easier for those needing help to contact us as some newer players (I hate the term noob) do not even know how to use the chat system.

[(PSN)Ze_LoBoToMiZeUr]

As many have said this thread is for improvements to the program.

 

Many have mentioned advertisements of some sort.  Many new players particularly on consoles do not read the forum and as such do not know about the program.

 

Whether it is a MOTD on the relays of something on the login screen or something else, new members have to be informed that we are no trolls ourselves but here to help.

 

Imagine going onto the relay chat and seeing the rantings of many trolls (many badmouthing us lol) and then seeing a post from one of us saying we want to help.  Would you tend to believe our post or think it some sort of trap?

 

I truly want to help people enjoy this wonderful game as much as I do but need to be given a little more help in doing so.  I am not looking for any glory... but I would like to think that I am helping out more than I currently am.  At present, I only feel as if I have helped someone 20% of the time I visit the relay.  The other times there is either so much troll ranting that no one asks questions or we are simply ignored.

 

Two suggestion (sorry if they have been mentioned):

1.  Better advertise/promote our existence.  presence and purpose.  

2.  Make it easier for those needing help to contact us as some newer players (I hate the term noob) do not even know how to use the chat system.

An easiest way to contact us? I like that, but I think promoting our existence is the main improvement to do at the moment, like some said, inbox messages, loading screens can't give enough informations about us, or maybe an option like an in game list with the online guides on the server.

[(PSN)Sreza]

An inbox message sounds like the best way to promote the existence of guides, maybe even a [Guide] tag to your names? Possibly even re-sending the inbox message every month when new guides are added to the list?

[(PSN)IIIDevoidIII]

An inbox message sounds like the best way to promote the existence of guides, maybe even a [Guide] tag to your names? Possibly even re-sending the inbox message every month when new guides are added to the list?

The [Guide] tag had been discussed and it isn't feasible at this time.

[(XBOX)Unholy Trojan]

An easiest way to contact us? I like that, but I think promoting our existence is the main improvement to do at the moment, like some said, inbox messages, loading screens can't give enough informations about us, or maybe an option like an in game list with the online guides on the server.

I had an argument with someone earlier about GotL. He kept saying none of you exist. Kept pointing him towards here but he didn't want to be proved wrong. I'm not a GotL, doubt I'll be asked, but I'll still defend it. You guys do what I do but with greater numbers and you're more effective.

[(XBOX)Unholy Trojan]

Spartan's correct, others are there and offer help.  I just did.

I do it too Aflem1, but today, I was attacked almost instantaniously the moment I offered help... I can usually handle it, but tonight I had to ask a guide to help me... As you know, it became waaaay too much for me... Starting to think helping should be left to the Guides... Online Bullies are in fierce numbers these days, no matter how strong your composure is, or how professional you are, bullies still hurt... I actually considered dropping Warframe dismorning. We need moderators and we need them quick, for the Junior Guides, and for the Average player wanting to help. The Relays have turned into a Warzone where the Haters and Bullies target the Guides and anyone resembling one.

Edited July 30, 2015 by (XB1)Unholy Trojan

[Infekt1on]

1000 would be better than 500 too :)

 

Probably the best way would be to extended the first quest to a visit to the relay, explaining all the rooms and what guides are.

 

And i also agree 500h would look better then 200^^

[(PSN)IIIDevoidIII]

1000 would be better than 500 too :)

Wut you trying to say? >.< Jkjk

I have about 850 hours in-game. 

After about 500 hours in the game, your knowledge of the game is pretty top notch. 

That's 20 days of playing, and your experience shouldn't shift all that much from there, more like it's simply refinement of your Arsenal and skill. Any addition to your clock in just another stat to brag about among friends.

 

Please do keep in mind the hours played requirement isn't a set and permanent value. It's a preemptive measure in attempts to ensure those who are being recruited have achieved extensive knowledge and dedication into the game. 

[ytty]

Really appreciate a system being placed. As an old player with not much to do in game (U17 today knock on wood) I get enjoyment by taking new members on missions to level their stuff and giving a quick explanation. Back when I joined there wasn't much help for new players and I had to brave the big (significantly less so then) and scary world of warframe.

 

Is there a way to submit nominations for players who I have repeatedly observed helping new players?

[(PSN)IIIDevoidIII]

Really appreciate a system being placed. As an old player with not much to do in game (U17 today knock on wood) I get enjoyment by taking new members on missions to level their stuff and giving a quick explanation. Back when I joined there wasn't much help for new players and I had to brave the big (significantly less so then) and scary world of warframe.

 

Is there a way to submit nominations for players who I have repeatedly observed helping new players?

This isn't really a way to promote other players, as this is pretty much the same sort of thing as trying to apply yourself, because of the anonymity.

Nominations of any sort are mainly made but the existing Guides.

[chewbaccachris2]

basically people will help if they want - whether they are GOTL or not. I try to help - not that I am around too much as my work takes me away from the PS4 a lot. It would be good to send info about the forum  - maybe a message on the login screen - I didn't know about the forum for over a year from when I started playing.

I know that when I am on the relays I have seen some of the guys - but if I didn't know that they were GOTL's I would have no idea.

[_FrostPrime_]

Wut you trying to say? >.< Jkjk

I have about 850 hours in-game. 

After about 500 hours in the game, your knowledge of the game is pretty top notch. 

That's 20 days of playing, and your experience shouldn't shift all that much from there, more like it's simply refinement of your Arsenal and skill. Any addition to your clock in just another stat to brag about among friends.

 

Please do keep in mind the hours played requirement isn't a set and permanent value. It's a preemptive measure in attempts to ensure those who are being recruited have achieved extensive knowledge and dedication into the game. 

 

You could word that better. Time spent in-game, whether actually playing the game or just lolzing around, still shouldn't sound like it's being bragged about. It's barely even capable of measuring experience now since most players don't follow experimental practicality. People nowadays are learning by others example, and most examples as far as I've seen in missions I've had with complete randoms, kinda shows how much and how greatly people are abusing the most unhealthy aspects of the game.

 

I've spent over 2,000 hours logged in to the game, and I'm STILL learning when I can. Am I top notch? Heavens no... maybe with Frost, sure, just to toot my horn there. But anything else? Not really... Time spent playing isn't a measure of experience. It's a measure of how much use your account actually gets. Especially since our in-game profiles and even End-Mission stats all directly show percentage usage and other statistics of our equipment, missions run, missions failed, and etc...

 

Anyway. One of the core problems (whether noticed or not), is that members of this order are selected, by members of the order. Just for the reasons of "good behavior." Literally anybody can pretend to be a good egg for a time in hopes of getting on board. It shouldn't be easy. What I'm getting at is.... there NEEDS to be background checks of the guides. Not very in depth ones, per se, but just a double check to make sure you actually know whose being allowed on that boat. ESPECIALLY when it comes to promoting Juniors into Seniors. Essentially the guides are more of a clique than anything else. Now... I'm not saying that in a bad way. It's just it looks more like people are getting on board just because the guides simply like them, more than any other average joe. And that's not okay. Even if they do typically display good behavior, that's not really back ground checking who they are. To know if they're actually capable of being trusted with being able to represent the community -- and even Digital Extremes, in a positive light. I've seen the good and the bad from the Guides and everybody needs to know whose the snake with a mask on, BEFORE they're even considered being capable of joining this group, for the purposes it's used for.

 

I'm not going to sit down and point fingers or call anybody out. But what I AM saying is that it might be a good idea to wipe the current list, check who was on it previously before allowing them back in, and then following suit with checking anybody else being let on board in the future. Basically think about it like you're making a house where an old one currently stands. Salvage what can be found, then pull down the building. Clear out the scraps and start with the foundation. Then after the foundation is carefully and appropriately laid out, start building upon it with carefully selected materials until it's finished again.

 

If anything needs clarification then feel free to ask me for what needs explaining. Cause that's a lot to chew on.

Edited July 31, 2015 by _FrostPrime_

[(PSN)jwernecke]

I'm personally kind of getting tired of having to defend the fact that I was chosen to be a guide. I helped lots of people in this game, met the hours requirement, have ZERO warning points, am a member of the design council, have been and continue to work very closely with DE on bugs, and go out of my way to censor what I say and how I say it so that I don't offend anyone or have a misunderstanding. Yet despite all that the guides whom all follow this thread get notifications every day that we look at hoping to find yet another person that actually has a question, but instead we find more insults and more general bashing of the program. Bashing the program and saying that you would be better suited to the position then those that were chosen seems to me like a surefire way to never be a guide. If you think you are guide material that's awesome. Keep doing what you have been. We notice. We don't go out and advertise that we saw your helping out but we did see it. I know their are some names that if I'm asked for a recommendation is love to drop. There are also several that I would recommend never be a guide. This thread has derailed so bad at this point it's ridiculous. Devoid is here everyday defending something that shouldn't need defended in the first place. Most of the junior guides stay out of it so that someone isn't offended. I'm not part of 'most' though. Never was. Thank you to those that have and continue to support us. A special thank you to Devoid for having our collective backs everyday.

[(PSN)IIIDevoidIII]

(...)

Anyway. One of the core problems (whether noticed or not), is that members of this order are selected, by members of the order. Just for the reasons of "good behavior." Literally anybody can pretend to be a good egg for a time in hopes of getting on board. It shouldn't be easy. What I'm getting at is.... there NEEDS to be background checks of the guides. Not very in depth ones, per se, but just a double check to make sure you actually know whose being allowed on that boat. ESPECIALLY when it comes to promoting Juniors into Seniors. Essentially the guides are more of a clique than anything else. Now... I'm not saying that in a bad way. It's just it looks more like people are getting on board just because the guides simply like them, more than any other average joe. And that's not okay. Even if they do typically display good behavior, that's not really back ground checking who they are. To know if they're actually capable of being trusted with being able to represent the community -- and even Digital Extremes, in a positive light. I've seen the good and the bad from the Guides and everybody needs to know whose the snake with a mask on, BEFORE they're even considered being capable of joining this group, for the purposes it's used for.

 

(...)

 

If anything needs clarification then feel free to ask me for what needs explaining. Cause that's a lot to chew on.

Sure, it's a lot to chew on, but it's nothing new. 

It's the same steak people have been carving for the past months, trying to pass it off as the best steak, but I still have my eyes on the one I have and they are trying to trade for.

 

All Guides undergo extensive background checks on their accounts by DE before they are offered a position as a Guide. 

This would include the behavior they display on the forums, and posts they make, Support action taken against them, and things of that nature. This is all after we, as Senior Guides, offer a suggestion to the DE Community Team. We don't offer a suggestion and then DE accepts them without a glance. DE is fully integrated in the selection process and moderates all Guide selection. This includes promotions. I have not, in any way, chosen who becomes a Senior Guide. Sure, I may offer my opinion and criticism, but, in the end, this is entirely up to the DE Staff.

Sure, most Guides suggested are people we know. How else would we suggest them? Based on a few posts they made in the forums? Or perhaps by stalking some random person to the ends of the Earth?

No, we need to know them in some way to be able to suggest them. If our suggestions are wrong, it is up to other Senior Guides, DE Staff, and the community to tell us such.

I have two players that I've suggested to the Guides that I do not particularly enjoy the company of, but do their fair share of work on the Relays, Region, and Forums.

 

(...)

I'm not going to sit down and point fingers or call anybody out. But what I AM saying is that it might be a good idea to wipe the current list, check who was on it previously before allowing them back in, and then following suit with checking anybody else being let on board in the future. Basically think about it like you're making a house where an old one currently stands. Salvage what can be found, then pull down the building. Clear out the scraps and start with the foundation. Then after the foundation is carefully and appropriately laid out, start building upon it with carefully selected materials until it's finished again.

(...)

This implies there is major fault and error within the Guides, that requires total rework... where?

I have not seen it, and I'm sure I would have seen major displeasure aroused by the community over a specific character, if there had been. 

And, had there been major issues with who is currently selected, have you utilized the Support request section made specifically for issues like these?

 

The Guide system, so far, is less like a house, and more like the building of the foundation. If there is a damaged piece of foundation, we want to clear it out before we set the house on it. This means reporting Guides who are not doing their tasks, are being abusive, and etc. This is also done by DE by selecting what Juniors are promoted to Seniors. 

If DE had damaged a piece of the foundation, you'll need to inform them they had, and not demand they dig up all the past four months of work to start over from scratch. This is like painting walls, do three of them perfectly, then doing a poor job on the last, and then repainting all four walls. It's pointless, and a waste of time, effort, and resources.

 

Simply disagreeing with a Guide's presence and approach is one thing, but to trash the system based on one's personal experience with Guides is another thing entirely, especially when the inner workings of the system is something the community can't quite see, and do not know what has occurred in terms of background checking and suggestions. Most of the Guides we have now didn't really know each other until we started to interact with one another. 

The point of our communication systems we utilize is to interact with one another. We want to get to know the other Guides, befriend them, and be able to work with one another. We can't be having shy characters who want to sit back and be bossed around. We can't have bossy characters demand that their way be done. We need to understand eachother, our opinions, and our tact. We are doing the best we possibly can in attempts to rosy the cheeks of the new players, and make the chats an approachable and friendly environment.

 

 

You could word that better. Time spent in-game, whether actually playing the game or just lolzing around, still shouldn't sound like it's being bragged about. It's barely even capable of measuring experience now since most players don't follow experimental practicality. People nowadays are learning by others example, and most examples as far as I've seen in missions I've had with complete randoms, kinda shows how much and how greatly people are abusing the most unhealthy aspects of the game.

 

I've spent over 2,000 hours logged in to the game, and I'm STILL learning when I can. Am I top notch? Heavens no... maybe with Frost, sure, just to toot my horn there. But anything else? Not really... Time spent playing isn't a measure of experience. It's a measure of how much use your account actually gets. Especially since our in-game profiles and even End-Mission stats all directly show percentage usage and other statistics of our equipment, missions run, missions failed, and etc...

(...)

The time spent, as I said, after about 500 hours, doesn't really amount to much, and, at that point is only really useful as another statistic to brag about among friends. 

You understand how the game works, it's core mechanics, and how to approach the quest lines and other aspects of the game. And, like I had already said, and you pointed out, time spent after that is for advancing your arsenal and skill. These are rough numbers, but this is how it works, in a general sense.

Time spent isn't a direct measure, but it's a nice indicator. I would never suggest a player who has only been playing for 30 hours, nor do I care if you had been playing for 4000. All I care about is that you know the game, and how it works, and can assist new players and answer questions. I don't care if you can break T4 Survival for 2 hours, nor do I care if you struggle past 15 minutes of T4 Survival. My goal when selecting candidates is not skill, it is experience, and knowledge. 

The 500 hour marker is an assistance tool in that approach. Like I had already said, it's not a set and definite number, and can be adjusted case by case if it really need be.

[chewbaccachris2]

I'm personally kind of getting tired of having to defend the fact that I was chosen to be a guide. I helped lots of people in this game, met the hours requirement, have ZERO warning points, am a member of the design council, have been and continue to work very closely with DE on bugs, and go out of my way to censor what I say and how I say it so that I don't offend anyone or have a misunderstanding. Yet despite all that the guides whom all follow this thread get notifications every day that we look at hoping to find yet another person that actually has a question, but instead we find more insults and more general bashing of the program. Bashing the program and saying that you would be better suited to the position then those that were chosen seems to me like a surefire way to never be a guide. If you think you are guide material that's awesome. Keep doing what you have been. We notice. We don't go out and advertise that we saw your helping out but we did see it. I know their are some names that if I'm asked for a recommendation is love to drop. There are also several that I would recommend never be a guide. This thread has derailed so bad at this point it's ridiculous. Devoid is here everyday defending something that shouldn't need defended in the first place. Most of the junior guides stay out of it so that someone isn't offended. I'm not part of 'most' though. Never was. Thank you to those that have and continue to support us. A special thank you to Devoid for having our collective backs everyday.

There should be no need to defend yourselves - those of us who are here on a regular basis see the efforts you guys put in and appreciate it. Some people just troll for the hell of it and really are not worth wasting a breath on. Keep up the good work guys!

Edited July 31, 2015 by (PS4)chewbaccachris

[(XBOX)xXx STR1FE xXx]

Very well done there Devoid! Thank you! As a Guide myself, I am glad someone can explain things with such depth and accuracy.

[Cleesus]

There should be no need to defend yourselves - those of us who are here on a regular basis see the efforts you guys put in and appreciate it. Some people just troll for the hell of it and really are not worth wasting a breath on. Keep up the good work guys!

This is good advice

[chewbaccachris2]

Do you think DE should change the name now this revalation has come out? Guides Of The Tenno?

[(XBOX)xXx STR1FE xXx]

Na, the Sigil is already in place. I think GOTL is good as it is. The Lotus is an abundance of knowledge, and we are here to relay that knowledge.

[(PSN)LittleCloud]

I thought this was a help thread, lol, never thought of reading here. So "Hello everyone :)"

[(XBOX)SwagScapegoat]

 

Figure I would try to add some levity to everyone's Monday morning.

Most of this is common sense stuff but when a troll starts boring into your brain it helps to reflect back on these.

 

>>>>>Troll Defence 101<<<<<

 

First and foremost do not confront the troll in open chat.  They are usually attention starved individuals who are eagerly waiting for you to respond so that they can retort.   If someone has a question that can not very easily be answered then either open up a new tab with them or ask them to open one.  Questions that are helpful to alot of people like "When is the trader coming" should be answered in open chat.

 

Secondly,  only answer those questions that actually appear to be helpful for someone playing in warframe.  Sometimes you get someone asking about your gear and these fall into the grey area but I try to answer them.  Don't answer those "What you gonna do about it" questions.....lol.

 

Ignoring the troll is your best bet.  If you ignore them they will go away.  They may spam you with invites to games.  They may xbox message you (for those xbox guides), etc but eventually they will go away...

 

If they ask about how to become a Guide I forward them to the forum.  This line of questioning could be someone actually wanting to be helpful but more often than not is a troll wanting to open that last lock on the door to your sanity.

 

If the trolls make it so impossible to help other in the chat then I see no need to even stay in the relay.  I post one more time that if someone needs help to PM me on Xbox and I leave.  Usually, if you leave, run a mission or two and come back a lttle while later the trolls have crawled back into thier holes.

 

[(XBOX)Lorewalker1022]

But if you don't feed the trolls won't they starve from malnutrition? lol I wouldn't want any starving creatures on this forum/in-game. Starving people is bad lol...(joking of course...about the trolls not about starving people....starving people in real life is actually bad...don't do it).

Edited August 3, 2015 by (XB1)Lorewalker1022

[chewbaccachris2]

But if you don't feed the trolls won't they starve from malnutrition? lol I wouldn't want any starving creatures on this forum/in-game.

sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind ;-P