Parkour 2.0 Issue: "gotta Go Fast" Hurts The Game

[WingedCrusade]

The distance you can ascend vertically is far higher, but it provides little raw speed. As for whipping enemies, it's too slow to be combat effective. What I'd like to see is much faster movement when using it as a grappling hook, and much faster animations when using it as a harpoon.

Really? It's too slow for you? I wouldn't say it's /that/ bad. I main a Valkyr and I use her Rip line quite a bit like the rest of her powers.

[Malikon]

That shouldn't be the case. If it is the case, PvP needs to be expanded upon, not destroyed by a mobility change.

PvP in this game was an afterthought at BEST and should have petered out and died off a long time ago.  Stop trying to change the main product to benefit something that was "bolted on".

Edited July 1, 2015 by Malikon

[Liminal]

You need to ask one question first: "why do so many players want need to traverse rooms in under 3 seconds?

It's because WF's mechanics force us to play the same thing over and over (and over and over and over and over ...), so many of us either rush or just quit playing (because we get burnt out or just plain bored).

 

I don't disagree with the idea of parkour 2.0 being slower in principle, but they also need to fix the underlying cause for our need to rush, otherwise it will push us away even more once the novelty wears out.

 

 

Hell, when I started playing before U5 I always took it slow, and kept doing that until U14 or so. I'd love if the game was both rewarding and slower.

[Jinryusai]

it would be best if we actually get our greasy mits on parkour 2.0 first before we assume anything.

 

*i am sad that i cant SANIC my ! all over the map anymore though D: *

Non Volt users should speak for themselves :)

[4G3NT_0R4NG3]

So, your main argument is that you can't use your Zephyr effectively anymore. Have you tried using a Jet Stream Augment build?

 

Jet Stream has its uses, but my main issue was that Tail Wind and other similar abilities would be ineffective, not the frames they're attached to as a whole. Zephyr would have excellent CC and incredible tankiness even if she didn't have the highest mobility of all frames.

 

On a side note, Rhino Charge has quite a lot of range that it can cover, but I guess you've never tested Duration builds on it?

 

I already mentioned Rhino Charge. It's experiencing similar issues to Tail Wind. I chose to use Tail Wind as an example instead of Rhino Charge because it's a superior mobility skill, it's more focused on mobility exclusively, and I have more knowledge on it since I main Zephyr.

 

Really? It's too slow for you? I wouldn't say it's /that/ bad. I main a Valkyr and I use her Rip line quite a bit like the rest of her powers.

 

I've always felt like directional air melee got me from point A to point B faster, and part of my issue with the whip feature is that it immobilizes you during the animation. It's always been a bit too clunky for me.

 

PvP in this game was an afterthought at BEST and should have petered out and died off a long time ago.  Stop trying to change the main product to benefit something that was "bolted on".

 

What an interesting personal opinion.

[Jinryusai]

Goes to show how broken a system is skills if you need to be on certain warframes to be fast.

 

Goes to show how much trouble pvp is for the game when pve has to compromise for it when it should be two separate environment binded by separate laws.

 

Goes to show a lack of thought if one thinks slow parkour is needed for stealth in the game.

 

Goes to show how much you are not a ninja if you go so slow and need a mod to go fast or tremendous skill further separating the slow players from the fast one bringing forth more "too fast" rush complaints from those that cannot master every system.

 

Enemies can be BUFFED to deal with quick Tenno...

 

Stealth can be adjusted to work with quick mobility.

 

Compromises can be made to compensate speed.

 

Mobility skills can be made better much like other reworks for other frames.

 

Imagine if Valkyr became the next Bionic Commando.

 

Imagine if Zephyr could fly.

 

Imagine if Rhino Charge actually did damage and even another utility other then knocking up players.

 

Reworks for all frames are coming. Imagine the possibilities for the mobility reworks. Change is good...

 

And no matter what, Volt's speed cannot be beaten. Not at maximized power strength.

 

It would be simple to slow down Tenno in pvp and keep em quick in pve.

 

If they start making pve decisions based on pvp, people are going to be PISSED as if there aren't enough people pissed that it even exists already...

 

They'll NEVER shut up about it.

 

As for the stealth, people are use to the run n gun nature of the game, to slow them down with parkour for stealth may not sit well with them...

 

You shall get a backlash for that. There is already some now.

 

Of course the stealth argument is for the only guy that even gives a damn about stealth in terms of parkour...

 

Not even the dev team is thinking about it, when they do, they shall decide whether speed is a hindrance to their stealth 2.0 vision. It could be very different from yours. Anything is possible.

[4G3NT_0R4NG3]

Goes to show how broken a system is skills if you need to be on certain warframes to be fast.

 

Goes to show how broken a system is skills if you need to be on certain warframes to deal good AoE damage. That's why Loki is the worst warframe.

 

Goes to show how much you are not a ninja if you go so slow and need a mod to go fast or tremendous skill further separating the slow players from the fast one bringing forth more "too fast" rush complaints from those that cannot master every system.

 

So parkour shouldn't require any skill. Got it.

 

Enemies can be BUFFED to deal with quick Tenno...

 

As if we don't deal with enough Nullifier/Ancient Healer/Bombard/Detron Crewman BS already. Let's add even more BS to the enemy design!

 

Goes to show how much you are not a ninja if you go so slow and need a mod to go fast

 

Isn't improving your speed sort of why speed mods exist?

 

Your ideas about needing certain things to do other things genuinely crack me up.

 

Imagine if Rhino Charge actually did damage and even another utility other then knocking up players.

 

Rhino Charge was just buffed in the last update to have better CC.

 

And no matter what, Volt's speed cannot be beaten. Not at maximized power strength.

 

I'm not able to confirm this on way or the other, but I know that actually creating a max power strength build would murder your duration pretty thoroughly, making speed worse. Speed also provides no vertical mobility, unless you count directional air melee, which is getting slashed as we all know. However, this is getting off topic.

 

It would be simple to slow down Tenno in pvp and keep em quick in pve.

 

Without having two entirely separate movement systems? An across the board speed decrease for all parkour moves in PvP is actually a pretty good idea. That could actually work very well. It's at least better than any other suggestion I've seen.

Edited July 1, 2015 by 4G3NT_0R4NG3

[Jinryusai]

Isn't improving your speed sort of why speed mods exist?

 

Your ideas about needing certain things to do other things genuinely crack me up.

Speed mods that no one uses? it cracks people up that others even use those mods...

 

it cracks people up that those mods even exists. But you are doing plenty cracking up as well with this thread :)

Edited July 1, 2015 by Jinryusai

[Malikon]

What an interesting personal opinion.

It stops being personal opinion where the design roadmap the game followed EXPLICITLY said "NO PVP" and then it literally got bolted on and never properly supported or fleshed out. That is the VERY definition of "bolted on".  The only personal opinion here is yours.

[Jinryusai]

I'm not able to confirm this on way or the other, but I know that actually creating a max power strength build would murder your duration pretty thoroughly, making speed worse. Speed also provides no vertical mobility, unless you count directional air melee, which is getting slashed as we all know. However, this is getting off topic.

When you cut all enemies down, you get a lot of energy, especially with others around. Then there is energy restore, but orbs do most of the work unless you never kill.

 

So one is able to keep up speed permanently if done right...

[Jinryusai]

As if we don't deal with enough Nullifier/Ancient Healer/Bombard/Detron Crewman BS already. Let's add even more BS to the enemy design!

Well, the game isn't hard enough, why not?

 

Why only nerf?

[4G3NT_0R4NG3]

Speed mods that no one uses? it cracks people up that others even use those mods...

 

it cracks people up that those mods even exists. But you are doing plenty cracking up as well with this thread :)

 

need a mod to go fast

 

And now you're saying you don't? You're contradicting yourself.

 

If speed mods actually do help you go fast, then that's how they should behave, and your previous statement is invalid.

 

If speed mods don't help you go fast, then you don't need them, and your previous statement is invalid.

[4G3NT_0R4NG3]

Well, the game isn't hard enough, why not?

 

Why only nerf?

 

You enjoy being nullified? You enjoy perpetually searching for the Healer that's making all enemies near invulnerable, only for 5 more to spawn 2 seconds later? You enjoy Detron Crewman having several times the damage output of every other enemy in the level?

 

BS enemy design isn't how we make the game difficult, it's how we make the game punishing. My views on game difficulty can be found here: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/471601-endgame-20-analyzing-the-causes-of-warframes-lack-of-endgame-and-solving-the-problems-one-by-one/

 

It stops being personal opinion where the design roadmap the game followed EXPLICITLY said "NO PVP" and then it literally got bolted on and never properly supported or fleshed out. That is the VERY definition of "bolted on".  The only personal opinion here is yours.

 

The Survival game mode was not in the game when it was first released. You could say it was bolted on. It (arguably) got fleshed out as well, or at least embraced. PvP 2.0 hasn't been in the game for long enough to have had something similar happen to it yet.

 

I can see how PvP 1.0 was bolted on, since everything was horribly unbalanced and it didn't have any work put into it. PvP 2.0 obviously has a lot of work going into it. It's being more and more "fleshed out" with every single update. 

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

If I can reach my enemy's spawn point in literally 3 seconds, I'm not sure how that possibly couldn't be a problem. The insane mobility turns what should be a competitive match into nothing but absolute chaos, because I just respawned, ran to the enemy's side of the map, grabbed their cephalon, and brought it back to our base, all within the course of 10 seconds.

 

Then you need to play against/with better people.  Honestly, all I am seeing in your posts is that you are bad at the game and want the game slowed down to accommodate you instead of you gaining the skills to compete. I even posted a video of people coptering and sling-shotting at mach speed and still having a fun PvP experience.  It's not our problem that you can do what they can.

 

 

The Survival game mode was not in the game when it was first released. You could say it was bolted on. It (arguably) got fleshed out as well, or at least embraced. PvP 2.0 hasn't been in the game for long enough to have had something similar happen to it yet.

 

I can see how PvP 1.0 was bolted on, since everything was horribly unbalanced and it didn't have any work put into it. PvP 2.0 obviously has a lot of work going into it. It's being more and more "fleshed out" with every single update. 

There is a HUGE difference between not being in the game and explicitly stating something won't be in the game.

Edited July 1, 2015 by (PS4)DesecratedFlame

[Jinryusai]

And now you're saying you don't? You're contradicting yourself.

 

If speed mods actually do help you go fast, then that's how they should behave, and your previous statement is invalid.

 

If speed mods don't help you go fast, then you don't need them, and your previous statement is invalid.

Funny, that post you replied to hasn't mentioned anything about needing it or not.

 

Seems you are just making up the contradiction.

[4G3NT_0R4NG3]

Then you need to play against/with better people.  Honestly, all I am seeing in your posts is that you are bad at the game and want the game slowed down to accommodate you instead of you gaining the skills to compete. I even posted a video of people coptering and sling-shotting at mach speed and still having a fun PvP experience.  It's not our problem that you can do what they can.

 

 

There is a HUGE difference between not being in the game and explicitly stating something won't be in the game.

 

I really don't understand how me being able to get across the entire map and back in under 10 seconds equates to me being a bad player. Is 10 not fast enough for you? Should I try for 8? Stop with the personal attacks on me and start making logical arguments.

 

Chaos can be fun. TF2 randomizer mode proved that. But would I want to play a 6s match in randomizer mode? Chaos doesn't make for good competitive objective games. If PvP was slowed down, maybe there could even be a "sped up" game mode just for chaotic fun, sort of like Mayhem mode in Destiny's Crucible. I would totally support that.

 

Funny, that post you replied to hasn't mentioned anything about needing it or not.

 

Seems you are just making up the contradiction.

 

Goes to show how much you are not a ninja if you go so slow and need a mod to go fast

 

Speed mods that no one uses? it cracks people up that others even use those mods...

 

it cracks people up that those mods even exists.

 

There's the self-contradiction if you missed it.

Edited July 1, 2015 by 4G3NT_0R4NG3

[Jinryusai]

You enjoy being nullified? You enjoy perpetually searching for the Healer that's making all enemies near invulnerable, only for 5 more to spawn 2 seconds later? You enjoy Detron Crewman having several times the damage output of every other enemy in the level?

 

BS enemy design isn't how we make the game difficult, it's how we make the game punishing. My views on game difficulty can be found here: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/471601-endgame-20-analyzing-the-causes-of-warframes-lack-of-endgame-and-solving-the-problems-one-by-one/

So faster parkour would completely destroy your idea you got there making it null and void?

 

You can't add something there to adjust to speed should it happen?

 

Don't see why you bothered to post this if you have all these ideas...

[Jinryusai]

 

I really don't understand how me being able to get across the entire map and back in under 10 seconds equates to me being a bad player. Is 10 not fast enough for you? Should I try for 8? Stop with the personal attacks on me and start making logical arguments.

 

Chaos can be fun. TF2 randomizer mode proved that. But would I want to play a 6s match in randomizer mode? Chaos doesn't make for good competitive objective games. If PvP was slowed down, maybe there could even be a "sped up" game mode just for chaotic fun, sort of like Mayhem mode in Destiny's Crucible. I would totally support that.

 

 

 

There's the self-contradiction if you missed it.

 

Still don't see where it says you don't need mods to run fast...

 

On a side note, if people sacrifice speed for more power, that says nothing about whether speed mods are needed or not.

 

Creating contradiction where there is none of it to be found.

Edited July 1, 2015 by Jinryusai

[cary2010haha1]

The funniest thing is, we don't care PVP, and in PVE if you hate to be fast, go your own solo/invite only game as slow as you want.

 

 

Or the biggest problem is that you can't control yourself to slow down?

 

 

And you always talk about PVP, do you see how many reply want to reply you about the PVP part? nearly nope.

 

 

 

In PVE we are always stay in the middle of enemy's kill zone 24/7, slow down is a very stupid idea.
We are not always facing lvl 1-30 level enemy. And go solo/invite only game to do wat ever you want. We don't care how you want to get yourself killed, just like in the field-----------rule#1 don't bother any of others.

Edited July 1, 2015 by cary2010haha1

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

 

I really don't understand how me being able to get across the entire map and back in under 10 seconds equates to me being a bad player. Is 10 not fast enough for you? Should I try for 8? Stop with the personal attacks on me and start making logical arguments.

 

Chaos can be fun. TF2 randomizer mode proved that. But would I want to play a 6s match in randomizer mode? Chaos doesn't make for good competitive objective games. If PvP was slowed down, maybe there could even be a "sped up" game mode just for chaotic fun, sort of like Mayhem mode in Destiny's Crucible. I would totally support that.

 

You clearly can't aim, because it only takes one shot to take down a lot of frames so that 8 seconds will be 7 too many.  There are other ways of slowing things down with out gimping speed, such as replacing the flag with a data mass then requiring you to hack a terminal in the enemy's base to obtain it.  Boom, things are slowed down from the 8 seconds without needing to nerf movement speed in general.

 

Or hell, just take out capture the flag and go pure death match. Better yet, remove PvP altogether.  Also speed worked just fine for Quake.

[taiiat]

blah blah, the world is ending, it's the doom of it all, even though Tailwind can cover huge distances at the press of a single button, being able to navigate more quickly without it will be the end of the world.

despite Tailwind being able to cover small countries with the press of a single button, clearly being able to navigate complex shaped areas faster means that Tailwind is useless.

blah blah, the world is ending.

[Thalahssalyst]

You clearly can't aim, because it only takes one shot to take down a lot of frames 

 

How...

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

How...

Last I checked, the new Bow could one shot all but the tankiest of frames.

[Thalahssalyst]

Last I checked, the new Bow could one shot all but the tankiest of frames.

I cant understand, because bows can 1 shot all warframes, speed in not a problem? At least in pvp you say... Right?

 

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

I cant understand, because bows can 1 shot all warframes, speed in not a problem? At least in pvp you say... Right?

 

Yes. If his problem is that speed is a too good because it can let you get to their spawn and back in 16 seconds, then it should not be an issue because the bow can one shot the flag carrier in a one second or so, assuming he can actually aim.