Style Meter Anyone?

[Casval_Rouge]

READ THIS FIRST - I'm done replying to those who don't even bother to read the first paragraph.  THIS IS NOT A METER TO GAUGE HOW STYLISH YOU PLAY.  All this is is to reward players for not literally, and I do mean literally using the same move over and over without using any other moves in between them.

 

I feel like something like the style meter from Devil May Cry is what Warframe currently really needs.  If we want to encourage active playing, less spamming, less camping, and less exploiting boring team combos, then isn't the style meter exactly what we need? Rather than having to rework something cool and useful like Greedy Pull, which I'm sure a lot will see as a "nerf" than a fix.

 

Here's how it works, its really simple.  

 

The meter increase when you do most offensive actions in the game.  Such as, shooting primary, secondary and melee weapons,  Using any powers, using different melee combos and moves, and using riposte and finishers.

 

Every repetition of the same move will reduce the efficiency of the gain quickly.  So if you stay in Peacemaker for too long, it gets to the point you no longer gain any meter.  The same with spamming the same abilities. 

 

It takes 3 different moves to reset it.  So if you use fireball 3 times in a roll, you no longer gain meter from a fourth fireball.  If you instead swing your sword or even cast different powers a few times then cast fireball again, that fireball will once again reward meter.  

 

The gain can be set as duration based with a fixed value rather than having a different for each actions and weapons in the game.  So say you are just holding down the supra for 4 seconds, you'll gain 10 focus (lol)  over 2 seconds.  It doesn't stack, instead it will just be refreshed.  So in those 4 seconds of firing and hitting enemies at least once every 2 seconds, you'll get 20.  That means even the slower weapons will not lose out on this mechanic, despite having a fixed value.  Which also means there are no obvious optimal way to gain it.  You'll naturally get it for not spamming, which as I keep saying, is the point of this.

 

Naturally the meter will decrease over time, even during actions.  Needless to say it is to disallow you capping at certain rank and just go back to spamming to maintain it.  

 

The meter rank up and every rank increase affinity gain, drop rates of all kinds and increase the amount of combos required to gain another rank.  Higher rank also decay a lot faster.  The point is, you can't stay in the higher ranks for too long to avoid any kind of easy to execute min-maxing tactics. 

 

The meter is for the individual, so you can't have a team each spamming their own power to increase it together.

 

But in order to really accommodate this mechanic, there a few tweaks that needs to be done.  Decrease weapon swap speed, and decrease current affinity gain from killing.  These I think are something I already like to see done to Warframe regardless of the meter.  But it is needed to see it at full effect.  

 

EDIT:  Ok I feel I need to clarify this a bit more as some are misunderstanding the point of this and how it works. 

 

First. This is not literally a style meter.  There are no vibrating "Smoking Sick Style!" popping up and burning effects surrounding it.  Needless to say aesthetically it would fit Warframe.  Think of it more like mechanics from fighting games that stop infinite combos, the point is that they work to stop spam, and not some kind of flashy particle effects with big words and crazy fonts covering a forth of your screen. 

 

Second.  You don't have to be flashy to gain meter.  All you have to do is not repeat the same 1 move over and over again and do nothing else.  If you want to keep shooting, go for it.  As long as you swing your sword, use your pistol, cast power or anything else once a while, your meter won't drop, and will increase as you continue playing.  But yes it will be less efficient than you trying to mix it up.  But it most cases, the situation you face in this game will force you to unintentionally mix things up anyways.  Like need to swap to secondary, or slam attack, or cast powers to CC or buff. 

 

Third.  The reward is significant at the first 1-3 ranks, but the higher ranks would not reward as much.  If you want to level up faster, getting to rank 2 should more than suffice.  But if you want to min-max and thinking that 1% bonus from the higher ranks is worth it, then do try to mix it up some more.  You are putting more effort into it, you should be rewarded for it.

 

Fourth.  The only time you should feel punished by this mechanic is when you spam.  Any other kind of gameplay will easily increase the rank. To compare with our current situation.  If you spam, you still get as much exp as you would now.  If you don't and therefore getting more and more ranks as the mission goes on, you'll end up getting more exp even if you might not kill as quickly as spamming.  That is the intention. 

Edited July 1, 2015 by Casval_Rouge

[blazekan5]

I do think that people should slow down on mesa..so this sounds o-k

[RadiantProxy]

I like ideas like these. But wait... I hear the booing of cheese-users... in the distance... *gives an upvote to the OP*

[Otenko]

I can get behind an idea like this, if only for this portion.

But in order to really accommodate this mechanic, there a few tweaks that needs to be done.  Increase weapon swap speed, and decrease current affinity gain from killing.  These I think are something I already like to see done to Warframe regardless of the meter.  But it is needed to see it at full effect.  

 

Changing weapons in combat is a big hassle and at times, can be just long enough for you to get overrun. There's little incentive to change weapons even if your current weapon has poor elements against the enemy you're fighting.

 

However, the time it takes to change weapons and reacquire your target will likely exceed the time it takes to kill the target with your original gun with poor elements.

 

All in all, maybe having a Style meter would be nice for Warframe. It might promote more usage of more than one ability as well as facilitate tactical weapon switching. As a side note, I think it'd be more in-line to call such a meter as, Momentum, or Instinct, or something.

[ComCray]

Interesting idea... But have this next to what we already have: it shouldn't make the xp-farming tactics useless as they do have a function (format your weapons six times and you will BEG for an easy way to level).

[Shirafunes]

i dont really know about this, im not a mesa player og mag player, i still support his nerf (hopefully we will see new mag builds now) but i dont see why you should be rewarded for trying to play differently

[Casval_Rouge]

I can get behind an idea like this, if only for this portion.

 

Changing weapons in combat is a big hassle and at times, can be just long enough for you to get overrun. There's little incentive to change weapons even if your current weapon has poor elements against the enemy you're fighting.

 

However, the time it takes to change weapons and reacquire your target will likely exceed the time it takes to kill the target with your original gun with poor elements.

 

All in all, maybe having a Style meter would be nice for Warframe. It might promote more usage of more than one ability as well as facilitate tactical weapon switching. As a side note, I think it'd be more in-line to call such a meter as, Momentum, or Instinct, or something.

 

That was merely a mistake.  I meant decrease swap to actually allow easier swapping, not making it harder =p

[Otenko]

That was merely a mistake.  I meant decrease swap to actually allow easier swapping, not making it harder =p

Sorry for the misunderstanding. I was more speaking of the current situation of weapon switching. But yeah, regardless, I still agree with the idea :P

[Divinity-EN-]

Not for me, Warframe is not really the kind of game where you build tons of combos. Not to mention there will be an added amount of pressure on the player's part to make flashy moves that are unnecessary and sometimes risky.

[(PSN)SofeSNBR]

No warframe does not need style meter, nor it would cool thing to add.  Style meter in DMC works because its hack n slash, whole point of those games is finish combat's as fast and as stylish you can (smokin sick style).

Also unless you are playing as Mary(lady) or gunslinger dante shooting is mainly there to prevent style rank depleting, not raising it as it barely does raise it. Melee is the way rise it. And style meter also depletes to 2ranks up to all ranks if you get hit ONCE. I know you are suggesting similar thing, not excat copy thus making my points kinda useless as it would be different, but still no.

[neoragdoll]

So if this system were to be implemented, players will have to avoid these things:

- Unequip any of your weapons to focus affinity gain on a specific weapon like we can do now because that will reduce your options for higher meter.

- Melee stances with 1 combo (2 if you really want to count the basic E string) because, again, less options.

- Frames with abilities that go well with long duration build and can't be recast.

To be honest, this system favor high efficiency build and frames with spamable abilities so that player can gain meter with less effort and pressure.

Also this system would destroy affinity gain for any casual players. Is this some kind of hidden "git gud"?

[Casval_Rouge]

Not for me, Warframe is not really the kind of game where you build tons of combos. Not to mention there will be an added amount of pressure on the player's part to make flashy moves that are unnecessary and sometimes risky.

You don't have to make flashy moves to get anything out of this mechanic.  The first 1-2 ranks should be easy enough to reach just by mostly shooting the same gun and cast powers 1 or twice, or a few quick melee.  It is not asking you to juggle your enemy, or flying kick into wallrun slam attack into finisher.  It is asking you to not literally use the same attack for extreme duration.  IE. Peacemaker for a whole wave of defense or Nekros only spamming desecrate and not even shooting at all.

 

Basically just do what you have always been doing (except spamming of course), and you'll be rewarded. 

[Casval_Rouge]

So if this system were to be implemented, players will have to avoid these things:

- Unequip any of your weapons to focus affinity gain on a specific weapon like we can do now because that will reduce your options for higher meter.

- Melee stances with 1 combo (2 if you really want to count the basic E string) because, again, less options.

- Frames with abilities that go well with long duration build and can't be recast.

To be honest, this system favor high efficiency build and frames with spamable abilities so that player can gain meter with less effort and pressure.

Also this system would destroy affinity gain for any casual players. Is this some kind of hidden "git gud"?

What? If you go sword alone.  First you already get more affinity for it.  Second, all you have to do to gain meter, is by sliding attack or jump attack once a while or maybe use your powers.  All of these everyone already have access to.  As I have said, there are many moves that will reset repetition checker, including the most mundane attacks.

 

For Warframes with high duration, you still have guns and swords?  Yes it will take longer as the rank go higher, but like the melee combo count, the first 2 ranks are easily achieved by average gameplay.  I don't believe higher rank means significantly better reward.  The point is to discourage spamming, not encouraging everyone into using everything you have in one big combo just to get something out of this.     

[(PSN)SofeSNBR]

So if this system were to be implemented, players will have to avoid these things:

- Unequip any of your weapons to focus affinity gain on a specific weapon like we can do now because that will reduce your options for higher meter.

- Melee stances with 1 combo (2 if you really want to count the basic E string) because, again, less options.

- Frames with abilities that go well with long duration build and can't be recast.

To be honest, this system favor high efficiency build and frames with spamable abilities so that player can gain meter with less effort and pressure.

Also this system would destroy affinity gain for any casual players. Is this some kind of hidden "git gud"?

Well i dont know wich style meter OP means, if he mean DMC series style meter then spam isnt option get top, variety is(even then variety needs to be more than just 2 different combos). If he means DmC style meter then yes spam is option or in fact just spam one thing to get top and stay there.

[Sebastianx]

That sounds pretty amazing, mind you 3-4 hits won't be enough of something in order to reset the previews thing, make it longer, that way I can see people going 1-2-3-4-1-2-3-4 on their keyboards, make it more of a "in a span of time" thing, if you spam your 4 too much in 10 seconds you won't get meter anymore after a few casts. Obviously the CURRENT affinity will still be the same at 0 meter, but as the meter rank goes up, so will the affinity gain and what not.

 

This MAY finally be the fix we need for the current bore-fest that warframe is becoming. I mean, you can just do your Draco and still get the same thing, but I doubt you'll feel special when your meter bar is 0 and while some other people on Cerberus are getting SSS meter bar and getting 10x affinity per kill. even if they're killing 5 times slower than you, it's still more than you could ever get.

 

Obviously this needs tweaking with channeling abilities such as Mirage's Prism, the more ticks of damage it does the faster the gain meter stop rising, AND it will need to take into account certain abilities like Vauban's Vortex, as in, while it's out it gains you the small amount of meter bar then that vortex is removed from the meter bar equation completely (till the, let's say ~10 second grace period passes), casting a new one pretty soon rewards nothing but if you do some other things first then cast another it will yet again add to the meter bar...and certain other similar abilities with a "fire and forget" mechanic 

[(PSN)SofeSNBR]

That sounds pretty amazing, mind you 3-4 hits won't be enough of something in order to reset the previews thing, make it longer, that way I can see people going 1-2-3-4-1-2-3-4 on their keyboards, make it more of a "in a span of time" thing, if you spam your 4 too much in 10 seconds you won't get meter anymore after a few casts. Obviously the CURRENT affinity will still be the same at 0 meter, but as the meter rank goes up, so will the affinity gain and what not.

 

This MAY finally be the fix we need for the current bore-fest that warframe is becoming. I mean, you can just do your Draco and still get the same thing, but I doubt you'll feel special when your meter bar is 0 and while some other people on Cerberus are getting SSS meter bar and getting 10x affinity per kill. even if they're killing 5 times slower than you, it's still more than you could ever get.

 

Obviously this needs tweaking with channeling abilities such as Mirage's Prism, the more ticks of damage it does the faster the gain meter stop rising, AND it will need to take into account certain abilities like Vauban's Vortex, as in, while it's out it gains you the small amount of meter bar then that vortex is removed from the meter bar equation completely (till the, let's say ~10 second grace period passes), casting a new one pretty soon rewards nothing but if you do some other things first then cast another it will yet again add to the meter bar...and certain other similar abilities with a "fire and forget" mechanic 

Well such tweak isnt needed, as doing same thing too long(like mirage's disco ball), rank dont raise(excluding mary's moves in DMC4:SE and DmC) in fact in DMC3 rank started to deplete if you did same thing too long. But still dont see WF needing this or even this work in WF.

[Casval_Rouge]

It shouldn't be needed in Warframe.  I don't want players to feel they need to try to max that stylish bar like it is as "important" in DMC.  If you feel like you want to max that bar by just rolling your fingers across 1234 over and over.  Then I'd say it is still better than just spamming 4.  Because in practice, just randomly pressing 1234 is not going to better than spamming 4, or just shooting or melee. If you still want to be mindless, might as well just go back to spamming.

[neKroMancer]

This method was proposed at least once before.

1. I support this.

2. It needs the game not to make me cry when I swap weapon. The swap speed must be faster to almost instantaneous to make the game more fluid (got to admit that WHY DE hasn't done this yet is beyond me).

3. We need more combo for melee-only players. Spamming EEEEE will no longer be an option. Moreover, more various and accurate air attacks are needed.

4. Gunplay need more variety or tweak in automatic weapons since you can shoot probably a few enemies before it no longer give any meter. Gun stance anyone? Or some crazy idea from borderland like the Mechromancer that incentivize player to shot until you're out of round before swap or deal less damage.

5. This doesn't allow much camping and duration-based ability need tweaking (effigy).

[(PSN)SofeSNBR]

It shouldn't be needed in Warframe.  I don't want players to feel they need to try to max that stylish bar like it is as "important" in DMC.  If you feel like you want to max that bar by just rolling your fingers across 1234 over and over.  Then I'd say it is still better than just spamming 4.  Because in practice, just randomly pressing 1234 is not going to better than spamming 4, or just shooting or melee. If you still want to be mindless, might as well just go back to spamming.

I get you that it would bring variety, but then we also need to remember, despite how easy it does sound to make, its also easy to F*** it up. Case and point DmC #*($%%@ it up. While i do believe DE has more talent than clowns at Ninja Theory at least i hope so... still.

[Berserkerkitten]

Not a fan. Spamming 4 all the time bores me as much as the next guy, but Warframe is about playing any way you want. I don't need a gauge to rate how pretty my playstyle is.

[Casval_Rouge]

That sounds pretty amazing, mind you 3-4 hits won't be enough of something in order to reset the previews thing, make it longer, that way I can see people going 1-2-3-4-1-2-3-4 on their keyboards, make it more of a "in a span of time" thing, if you spam your 4 too much in 10 seconds you won't get meter anymore after a few casts. Obviously the CURRENT affinity will still be the same at 0 meter, but as the meter rank goes up, so will the affinity gain and what not.

 

This MAY finally be the fix we need for the current bore-fest that warframe is becoming. I mean, you can just do your Draco and still get the same thing, but I doubt you'll feel special when your meter bar is 0 and while some other people on Cerberus are getting SSS meter bar and getting 10x affinity per kill. even if they're killing 5 times slower than you, it's still more than you could ever get.

 

Obviously this needs tweaking with channeling abilities such as Mirage's Prism, the more ticks of damage it does the faster the gain meter stop rising, AND it will need to take into account certain abilities like Vauban's Vortex, as in, while it's out it gains you the small amount of meter bar then that vortex is removed from the meter bar equation completely (till the, let's say ~10 second grace period passes), casting a new one pretty soon rewards nothing but if you do some other things first then cast another it will yet again add to the meter bar...and certain other similar abilities with a "fire and forget" mechanic 

 

Yes the amount you gain from each action will need to be specified and I see it as the biggest challenge in implementing this. 

 

Alternatively, The gain can be set as duration based with a fixed value.  So say you are just holding down the supra for 4 seconds, you'll gain 10 focus (lol)  over 2 seconds.  It doesn't stack, instead it will just be refreshed.  So in those 4 seconds of firing and hitting the target at least once every 2 seconds, you'll get 20.  That means even the slower weapons will not lose out on this mechanic, despite having a fixed value.  Which also means there are no obvious optimal way to gain it.  You'll naturally get it for not spamming, which as I keep saying, is the point of this.

Not a fan. Spamming 4 all the time bores me as much as the next guy, but Warframe is about playing any way you want. I don't need a gauge to rate how pretty my playstyle is.

 

Completely miss the point, you didn't even read did you?

[DeMeritus]

I care about getting a run completed and finishing the objective, not being derpily flashy and show-offish while getting teammates killed.

 

That sort of play tends to belong more in single player games where you aren't sharing a pool of potential targets with 3 other teammates, some of whom might just want to get the dang run done and over with, so they can get on to the next one.

 

The drop tables are a freaking poorly thought out mess, and lots of people just want to get a run done and extract so they can try to get the reward they want, not sit around while someone is trying to fill a dang combo meter.

 

And in case you haven't noticed, DE absolutely *hates* synergies and things that boost stats readily.

Edited July 1, 2015 by DeMeritus

[DiabolicalHamSandwich]

Didn't fully read it (apologies) but I would like to just say "no"....in all honest I disliked DMC for that damned meter. Always a constant reminder that if I wasn't doing the best of the best my score would reflect as such. It's easy enough to ignore unless you always have a big ol bright unmissable letter to remind you, you failed xD....plus although this would discourage spam and focus on combos it would also probably discourage playing "your way" since i'm sure a lot of people can't help but want to get the best of the best~

[Casval_Rouge]

I care about getting a run completed and finishing the objective, not being derpily flashy and show-offish while getting teammates killed.

 

That sort of play tends to belong more in single player games where you aren't sharing a pool of potential targets with 3 other teammates, some of whom might just want to get the dang run done and over with, so they can get on to the next one.

 

The drop tables are a freaking poorly thought out mess, and lots of people just want to get a run done and extract so they can try to get the reward they want, not sit around while someone is trying to fill a dang combo meter.

 

And in case you haven't noticed, DE absolutely *hates* synergies and things that boost stats readily.

 

 

Didn't fully read it (apologies) but I would like to just say "no"....in all honest I disliked DMC for that damned meter. Always a constant reminder that if I wasn't doing the best of the best my score would reflect as such. It's easy enough to ignore unless you always have a big ol bright unmissable letter to remind you, you failed xD....plus although this would discourage spam and focus on combos it would also probably discourage playing "your way" since i'm sure a lot of people can't help but want to get the best of the best~

 

Neither of you have read it and decided to comment. Since when did I say this is to encourage stylish plays and doing combos?

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

The combat system lacks the finesse needed for a CUHRAYZEE style system.