Warframe's Pvp 2.0 Is A Prime Example Of Map Control Gone Wrong (Proposed Changes Concerning Weapons And Maps)

[Thalahssalyst]

 

 

4: Please, before posting a comment in this thread, please... please please play a match or two so you understand what we're talking about and so you can get a grip on what the reality of the situation is before posting a nonsensical comment. Oh and also, please, read the entire post and also possibly the other comments as well, so again you can understand e7's intentions and see what the other arguments in the thread are.

Im pretty sure what he is talking about, putting 1 or 2 energy orbs on mid, or team side.

Focus more on gun play, limit the usage of melee, no more quick melee atacks. (If i want a game where there is only gun play, i can play cs go, but i like the way on how is this).

I dont think, that people come here and comment, dont play conclaves, i have never see someone who talk here, on a match, just Eureka, and elele.

"I see people who never touched a real 1.0 conclave game in their life and somehow have a higher K/D than some of the 1.0 veterans I have seen in WF. You are telling me that the people in 1.0 who worked alot harder to get their kills have K/Ds that are lower than people who power spam?"

So, you say, the problem comes from people who never touched the 1.0? Really?

How many people was playing that old node compared to this? And you say that warframe quality its surffering because E and skills? Really?

I like how some of the "veterans" call, Spin to win, 1-4 to win, no LMB to win? The only thing considered as skill is aim?

As i say, i am the only one who see this thread as an attemp to give back what 1.0 was?

 

Make sure that this orb only appears 3-4 times per game. The weaker orbs, reduce the spawn time but make them accessible at least 4 time per game. So that there is a focus on gunplay without completely ignoring powers.

 

So, whats next? Restriction about melee? 

Addressing Melee as it can be extremely powerful. Make is so that player MUST equip their melee weapon in order to attack with it that way we can cater to the melee only players but not make them mash E when they are 1 meter from someone. Also Remove martial magnetisim, do i even need to explain that?

Why the player have to be forced to equip only the melee weapon in order to atack? It is not going to resolve the over cry about the "block to win" incoming on u17.

To conclude, pvp 2.0 at it's current state is a mess. It 's not even a firefight anymore. Its just a game of superman 64 but with energy orbs instead of rings. Players spam too much because it works, players mash E too much because it works. But the most important thing, and that keeps people playing the gunplay is the weakest thing in the game. Hopefully you guys at DE can read this. Don't take it word from word but at least derive it to something that works.

Again? why the exageration about the energy, all you are telling me, no one can catch a energy farmer? Or prevent the player to camp?

Guns Weaker? I dont know, but we have a gun-play dominant system actually.

Player spamm too much because it works? What can i say about that, it no works on everything, you can spamm 1 with valkyr and win, do you?

The most beautifull thing that actually in warframe is, its warframe.

This pvp its amazing, compared on what was before, i feel more balanced this, more distinction between players, when you say "o hell a ember, i have to..."  Or "Obreron, hm i have..." No focus on what was, "o look at that, a valkyr, im valkyr too, everyone is valkyr may gad"

 

Limit the energy orbs to 1 orb per team spawn area, make a middle orb that give the player access to his 4th. This way players will fight for the 4th cast and it will not be abused like it is now.

First of all Restrict the 4th power and give it it's separate meter. This meter will go up based on kills but can only be obtained either via a high kill streak OR a high amount of kills.

Secondly reduce the powers based on PROCs. Make casting a power just do a proc rather than damage itself. This will give players the edge in a fight but not a guaranteed win. Make most of the casts utility, with a few exceptions like electric shield.

 

Abused? I dont see people casting 4th every 1 minute, the problem comes from player that let someone do that, if you dont try to stop the player who focus on energy, is not the system that have the problem.

Focus the 4th skill on a meter kill, its going to limit the choices, everyone is going to choose the best stats based warframes, to get more kills, that give players no more than 2 choices, 3 maybe? Valkyr, Chroma, Rhino.

The power weapons have a skill curve, so that players don't automatically win just because they are faster. This is where warframe loses, hard. And that is because powers are too easy to use.

 

Automatic win the match just for picking 2 or 3 energy orbs? Your skill curve is not working at all, if you still let players to pick orbs frecuently to win, and i dont think that warframe is losing on that, im still can press where i want to play, and i find a lot of people.

 

You see people who never touched warframe Europa PvP in their life, playing like superstars going 30-6 and this is not because that player is good, it's simply because he spammed 1-4. Now you may be asking "well Eureka does it mean that that particular player has good map control?" and the answer is no.

 

No one, ever, ever its going to play a broken game as how 1.0 was, where gunplay was the focus, and coptering the deal. Where warframes focus was Ash/Zephyr/Valkyr, because cheap.

And gun play because "skills", no warframe interaction with the player, no melee fights (amazing mechanic), and no balance, where a simple dude entering with the most op thing can ruin the match.

Is not because that player is good, its simply because he spammed 1-4.

Ow men, how wrong you are, the simply case that i have the chance to press 1-4, it dont make the match an automatic win, because oro steals, and most of the skills are tweaked so players dont die,  (and i dont know why skills dont 1 shot kill, warframes skills should have to be as how they are, OP).

 

They were 1: Fast, so good for moving, and 2: Its copter one shot any frame, because of the unmodified raw 2k+ damage. Now adding in the weapon one shots, fast movement, this created an actual "ninja game". This PvP 2.0 is trash in the term of "ninja".

 

Im sorry, but the only feel "ninja" its the lack of balance because coptering as how ever was, no because the gameplay was fast, and on u17 they are reworking the system for more "ninja" play style.

 

So let me get this out of the way, and I'm sure I speak on behalf of most of the vets, True PvP 1.0 was the best PvP. Not PvP 2.0, nor 3.0. 

 

Thats why most of the "veterans" think this pvp system is wrong. Still stuck on what old pvp was, a gun-gameplay focused style, no warframe pvp.

 

Unless you mean "Only oberon's 25 energy ability can kill my excalibur". 

Then again, thats false. Obe's first ability is probably one of the weakest first abilities of the PvP warframe roster (unless target is in an enclosed space). I only use oberon to combo after my daikyu hits a tankier opponent. 

No, it kill excalibur with 1 shot, excalibur its my main on everything.

 

And finally, as for your last statement - "If you want to focus on Gun-Play, there are a dose of good shooters out there."

This one frankly irritates me. K first off, no. I enjoy warframe because of its unique style and how it plays, which is why I LOVED True 1.0. However, with the addition of 3.0, DE frankly murdered pvp. So this is the "PvP Feedback", hence I'm (we're) giving feedback on what I believe could fix multiple of the problems available and can provide a much better experience for all users. What you said is like saying "Oh you want a game with abilities and possible spam? Theres hundreds of MOBA's out there, so go play them and forget about WF". So yeah no. 

 

I enjoy warframe, and i want to enjoy warframe pvp, no a shooter pvp.

This is why i love pvp in warframe, the distinction between warframes, different modes to play, im sorry but im not was the one who tell me to play another game.

And no, they dont murdered pvp, the amount of people say something that is working. About the ability spamm, is not a spamm, that its an exageration like the "spin to win" still calling like that, after DE removed the Spin damage from the melee weapon making it base stats.

And i dont was the one, who tell me i need to play more shooters if i think that 1-4 its a playstyle.

 

As for the "disrespect" and lack of skill. Yes I do disrespect people who use powers all the time and spam the living hell out of them, and I think they lack skill. Because of the advantages I just mentioned

 

So, how its supposed this, its considered a respect between play styles? What its skill? Aim? Nothing more? O parkour too?

Yes, Skills have disadvantajes, most of the warframes are vulnerable when using it. Like someone who want to do a melee gameplay without be called "spin to win" o N00b.

 

The current State of warframe, as how is it now, its amazing, beautifull, differents warframes, powers, game styles, real tanks, real nukers, real healers, is not a generic shooter game.

 

[(XBOX)LordPuck]

Just because you quote wikki doesnt mean you understand what it says.

You refer to map control yet dont understand a simple tactic.......

You remind me of the GB Esl players from Titanfall. Those "pros" didnt know what tactics are either.

 

Please learn basic tactics before you say others dont know anything.

[elele]

Availability?

 

Well I'm not a Halo player but in Quake 3, spawn timer is like this: 

 

Respawn Times

Quad (and other powerups) - 2 minutes

Weapons - 30 seconds

Armour - 25 seconds

Health - 35 seconds

 

Anyway, spawn timers can and are frequently modded in different servers so it's all about personal preferences in the end. 

[-dicht.ThanksFrost-]

The current State of warframe, as how is it now, its amazing, beautifull, differents warframes, powers, game styles, real tanks, real nukers, real healers, is not a generic shooter game.

This line makes it all transparent.

 

Warframe is a third person shooter, not a MOBA. Tanks, nukers, healers in shooters (in most cases) do not work, these are elements that you find in WoW PvP or League or Dota. 

 

Im all for innovation, but what makes the third person genre so unique compared to 1st person or any other type of MP is that the player can take full advantage of the game mechanics.

 

Third person games are very mechanic heavy, thats what makes them shine but the abuse of powers waters down the mechanics, it waters down the complexity of the in game mechanics to a simple pick up and press game. Fire fights should be won based on who has a better grasp of the moving and shooting mechanics not the guys who gets the most orbs.

 

I have seen games where someone literally spammed his ult at least a dozen+ times. And i was purging the living hell out of the energy.

 

energy spawns are too frequent that is that. once again, and I will hammer down my point.

 

Warframe is a 3rd person shooter not a MOBA. 3rd person games don't work with MOBA mechanics. And it is very difficult to make it work. Warframe PvP in it's current state does not work. It forces its players to be extremely reliant on powers and casts. And the spamming of these casts does not encourage players to delve into the gunplay and movement mechanics of the game. Because who needs to? Just pick up some orbs and you are guaranteed a kill.

Edited July 7, 2015 by Eureka.seveN

[Thalahssalyst]

 

 

Warframe is a 3rd person shooter not a MOBA. 

Yes, you are right, its a Warframe Third Person Shooter Ninja game with warframe powers.

And on his current state, warframe pvp, its working.

It have a mechanic that its working right now, as an example, there you have pve nukers, healers etc, and in pvp, its working.

[elele]

Warframe is a third person shooter, not a MOBA. 

 

This is just how you want WF to be. In this current form, WF PVP is a third person shooter AND a moba (if by moba you mean "hero characters with unique abilities and stats"). 

 

 

3rd person games don't work with MOBA mechanics. 

 

I assume you meant "3rd person SHOOTERS don't work with MOBA mechanics" because there are other successful and good MOBAs in third person (Smite). 

 

If you indeed meant "shooters don't work with MOBA", well Blizzard's Overwatch is exactly like WF but in first person. Splash Damage's Dirty Bomb is also an FPS with "hero abilities". 

[(XBOX)LordPuck]

Why do you keep saying MoBA? Thats up to you how you translate it in your head. You mention Halo. You mention the power weapons in Halo. Yet you dont mention the map/lane control needed to deny your enemies access to those power weapons. I mention 2 other games based on your example. Not LoL or Smite etc.........

[rockscl]

warframe pvp is a multiplayer online battle arena from any angle you look at it, that doesnt mean its the same as dota, or lol

[-dicht.ThanksFrost-]

This is just how you want WF to be. In this current form, WF PVP is a third person shooter AND a moba (if by moba you mean "hero characters with unique abilities and stats"). 

 

 

 

I assume you meant "3rd person SHOOTERS don't work with MOBA mechanics" because there are other successful and good MOBAs in third person (Smite). 

 

If you indeed meant "shooters don't work with MOBA", well Blizzard's Overwatch is exactly like WF but in first person. Splash Damage's Dirty Bomb is also an FPS with "hero abilities". 

Smite is just a MOBA with a third person view, just take League and give it a camera change and you pretty much got smite. Movement and hitting targets feels like a MOBA and works like a MOBA.

 

Warframe was designed as a third person shooter in terms of movement, shooting, slashing. This is universal amongst both PvE and PvP. But for casts, which are clearly a PvE exclusive design does not fit into a competitive PvP, for reason that I have not only stated in this post but in previous ones as well. In order to integrate powers into the competitive PvP, the devs (consciously or not) integrated tropes from MOBAs in order to make it somewhat work. The result is a third person shooter with super powers that give the player the up most advantage.

 

As for the "Hero Bomb" argument, you have to understand that it is a 1st person shooter and thus can produce a different effect. It's like mixing compounds, sometimes it works out and makes a cool effect other times it does nothing or it explodes. Hero bomb works because it is not onyl a first person shooter but you also have to consider that Dirty Bomb has systems in place to prevent players from spamming their "hero abilities" such as cool downs. Whereas in warframe you are allowed to spam to your hearts content (for the most part)

 

Yes, you are right, its a Warframe Third Person Shooter Ninja game with warframe powers.

And on his current state, warframe pvp, its working.

It have a mechanic that its working right now, as an example, there you have pve nukers, healers etc, and in pvp, its working.

I can't even argue with you anymore. If you think stunning an opponent with an easy to land, highly accessible power is fair and makes you think that warframe "works" good for you.

 

 

Why do you keep saying MoBA? Thats up to you how you translate it in your head. You mention Halo. You mention the power weapons in Halo. Yet you dont mention the map/lane control needed to deny your enemies access to those power weapons. I mention 2 other games based on your example. Not LoL or Smite etc.........

Once again, LANE control and MAP control are two very different things. Universally some maps promote LANE control and other promote MAP control. Its going to be hard to explain this but ill try.

 

Lane control is where your entire team controls multiple hallway-esque sections of the map. By controlling one land you can converge into other lanes. Think of it as multiple mini battles happening all the time and they converge and diverge as the game progresses.

 

Map control is different. Map control is where your team assumes certain positions on one plane aka a Map and is able to lock the enemy team with good positioning. Since you love the word "lane" so much. Think of it as just a single lane but with more complex mini branches and paths. With proper positioning you can control all branches, a player can see all the branches or at least a large portion of it. Whereas in lane control you are depending on your teammates that the battles around you are being won and that they are willing to switch at the appropriate time. Map control happens ins cases where one large single battle is happening theres much less segregation. 

 

You are attributing MOBA mindsets into shooters. Tactics are inherently different. I called you out on that, nothing more.

 

warframe pvp is a multiplayer online battle arena from any angle you look at it, that doesnt mean its the same as dota, or lol

it may not be a MOBA in the literal sense, but they are highly comparable when it comes to the position of casts and frames in the game.

[(XBOX)LordPuck]

Why do you keep saying MoBA? Thats up to you how you translate it in your head. You mention Halo. You mention the power weapons in Halo. Yet you dont mention the map/lane control needed to deny your enemies access to those power weapons. I mention 2 other games based on your example. Not LoL or Smite etc.........

See the word map???? I guess not >_> Map/lane control are the same......

 

Just because you quote wikki doesnt mean you understand what it says.

You refer to map control yet dont understand a simple tactic.......

You remind me of the GB Esl players from Titanfall. Those "pros" didnt know what tactics are either.

 

Please learn basic tactics before you say others dont know anything.

Do you see what I said about GB EsL players? I guess not >_>

Ive spent too long trying to get you to use tactics that youre too busy arguing the definition of lol

have a nice day.....

[-dicht.ThanksFrost-]

See the word map???? I guess not >_> Map/lane control are the same......

 

Do you see what I said about GB EsL players? I guess not >_>

Ive spent too long trying to get you to use tactics that youre too busy arguing the definition of lol

have a nice day.....

okay bye, dont let the door hit you on the way out.

Edited July 7, 2015 by Eureka.seveN

[SanguineSavant]

Simply put PVE mechanics are great. They are however mechanics that don't work as a PVP game. Most of the game devolves into running, sorry coptering, around the map and waiting for an opportunity to use a power so they can secure a kill. There's no fun in that. No way to do organised teamwork. No cohesion. The pacing and ease of transition make this even more difficult to accomplish. All in all, it's just something that won't work in it's current state no matter how many mods you produce or weapons you balance. This is literally a game mode that most are going to do just to be a completionist. Not for fun.

[-dicht.ThanksFrost-]

Simply put PVE mechanics are great. They are however mechanics that don't work as a PVP game. Most of the game devolves into running, sorry coptering, around the map and waiting for an opportunity to use a power so they can secure a kill. There's no fun in that. No way to do organised teamwork. No cohesion. The pacing and ease of transition make this even more difficult to accomplish. All in all, it's just something that won't work in it's current state no matter how many mods you produce or weapons you balance. This is literally a game mode that most are going to do just to be a completionist. Not for fun.

*tears up*

ur my angel

Edited July 7, 2015 by Eureka.seveN

[elele]

Warframe was designed as a third person shooter in terms of movement, shooting, slashing. This is universal amongst both PvE and PvP. But for casts, which are clearly a PvE exclusive design does not fit into a competitive PvP, for reason that I have not only stated in this post but in previous ones as well. In order to integrate powers into the competitive PvP, the devs (consciously or not) integrated tropes from MOBAs in order to make it somewhat work. The result is a third person shooter with super powers that give the player the up most advantage.

 

WF is the first game to mix pure shooting, movement, melee and abilities in PVP as far as I know. And I personally think DE has done a pretty good job so far. 

 

 

As for the "Hero Bomb" argument, you have to understand that it is a 1st person shooter and thus can produce a different effect. It's like mixing compounds, sometimes it works out and makes a cool effect other times it does nothing or it explodes. Hero bomb works because it is not onyl a first person shooter but you also have to consider that Dirty Bomb has systems in place to prevent players from spamming their "hero abilities" such as cool downs. Whereas in warframe you are allowed to spam to your hearts content (for the most part)

 

I don't understand how 1st person produces different results from 3rd person. If anything, 3rd person = better awareness = better chance to dodge your enemies' abilities. 

 

"cool down" has its own problems. Nobody likes a camper who waits in a corner until his cool down ends and use cheap abilities. At least WF's energy spawns make you work (i.e. move around the map quickly) to get a chance to use your abilities.  

 

 

But isn't this thread's purpose to argue that "map control in WF doesn't work"? Back to topic, I still don't see the difference between Quake (ok maybe Halo)'s map control and WF's map control. 

Edited July 7, 2015 by elele

[-dicht.ThanksFrost-]

WF is the first game to mix pure shooting, movement, melee and abilities in PVP as far as I know. And I personally think DE has done a pretty good job so far. 

 

 

 

I don't understand how 1st person produces different results from 3rd person. If anything, 3rd person = better awareness = better chance to dodge your enemies' abilities. 

 

"cool down" has its own problems. Nobody likes a camper who waits in a corner until his cool down ends and use cheap abilities. At least WF's energy spawns make you work (i.e. move around the map quickly) to get a chance to use your abilities.  

View points are CRUCIAL in game design. They all produce a different effect and are designed differently. What you can an cannot see is vital in game design, visual restriction takes part in almost every aspect.

 

Ik this is not a good example but I think it drives what I am trying to say forward. Think of it in terms of how much a change in view can dramatically change the way a game perceived. From a 2d Birds eye view perspective to a third person (adventure type) perspective. Hopefully this can somewhat apply to a 1st person game a 3rd person game and a moba.

 

https://youtu.be/XOC3vixnj_0?t=4m42s

Edited July 7, 2015 by Eureka.seveN

[elele]

View points are CRUCIAL in game design. They all produce a different effect and are designed differently. What you can an cannot see is vital in game design, visual restriction takes part in almost every aspect.

 

which is why I said 3rd person is probably better suited for "hero shooters" than 1st person. 

 

That's the reason I think if 1st person works for Blizzard's Overwatch, 3rd person for WF works too, or maybe works even better. 

[Thalahssalyst]

 

I can't even argue with you anymore. If you think stunning an opponent with an easy to land, highly accessible power is fair and makes you think that warframe "works" good for you.

 

So, lets make warframe gun play focused only?

Like it was before? Because before working well right? As how 1.0 was, and dark sector, you have an example, on how 1.0 terrible was, compared to this, where you dont depend on imaginary rules, everything is balanced, jisus the skills are balanced and dont 1 shot.

I dont understand your point of transform warframe on a gun gameplay focused only.

But thank you, now i understand why i keep saying, that most of the veterans still stuck on 1.0, and how they are trying to take it back.

 

And i hope, really really hope, that DE dont take the wrong decition about limiting again the energy on maps, making more difficult the game for low stats warframes. 

Edited July 7, 2015 by Grimlock-

[-NyriX-]

So, lets make warframe gun play focused only?

Like it was before? Because before working well right? As how 1.0 was, and dark sector, you have an example, on how 1.0 terrible was, compared to this, where you dont depend on imaginary rules, everything is balanced, jisus the skills are balanced and dont 1 shot.

I dont understand your point of transform warframe on a gun gameplay focused only.

But thank you, now i understand why i keep saying, that most of the veterans still stuck on 1.0, and how they are trying to take it back.

 

And i hope, really really hope, that DE dont take the wrong decition about limiting again the energy on maps, making more difficult the game for low stats warframes. 

 

Again, no. We're not trying to make PvP gun only. We're trying to incorporate everything together, because right now it's simply broken. 

 

As I did mention before, DSPvP was absolute trash and was a terrible decision on behalf of DE, but 1.0 was great because of the rules that were set. We had to make these rules because the game was even more broken before, and now with this new community at hand in 2.0, they simply wont put rules in because DE says they are "Balancing it", which honestly I consider bull or they just aren't listening to everyone's concerns. 

 

Nothing is currently balanced in 3.0. I can't even begin to say why. It's either OP or sh*t. And the amount of energy available is way to much and simplifies strategies down to "grab energy, go to person, press button, shoot once or twice, win." Also, did you ever play true 1.0? (not the 2.0 trash) If you didn't, I honestly don't think you can make a proper argument about how bad 1.0 was because it was great once you got the hang of it. Everything was involved, not just guns, so you cant support that argument of 1.0 only being gun based. Yes, again, there weren't many attack abilities used, but most of the ones used were utility based, like ripline, shield, the zephyr one i cant remember, globe, etc etc. 

 

Again, refer to first point. We're not making it gun only. And you're half right on your next point. Although it would be fantastic for DE to have left both types of pvp on separate nodes, we know it's not coming back. So we vets aren't actually trying to bring 1.0 back, but instead fix the current 2.0 into a gametype that more people would enjoy. Yes, that includes bringing SOME parts of 1.0 back into PvP (not all of them), but instead mostly trying to fix what was brought into PvP and making it better without completely converting it into something else. I can't see how you can support the argument that we're trying to convert PvP back into 1.0.

 

I hope that they do make a decision to reduce the amount of orbs. People don't play PvP because of how broken it is because of this. You need to see and understand that fact. It's the same as PvP 2.0. People didn't play because of how broken it was, and we all saw that. It's the same here, however now its completely reversed. 1.0/2.0 was guns, 3.0 is abilities. Why can't we help to make an in-between point? That's what we're trying to accomplish.

Edited July 16, 2015 by [DE]Danielle
Language

[Aggh]

I see people who never touched a real 1.0 conclave game in their life and somehow have a higher K/D than some of the 1.0 veterans I have seen in WF. You are telling me that the people in 1.0 who worked alot harder to get their kills have K/Ds that are lower than people who power spam? So ya i will be disrespectful because it gives players too much power and it needs to stop.

 

 

A lot of the 1.0 vets I've seen have at best average tracking skills (more important when ttk is longer) and never really grew out of being used to just twitch aiming someone with a couple bodyshots from a marelok.  Quite a few of them spend so much time running away instead of going for kills that it's no surprise that they have lesser KDs and probably even worse win/loss ratios if that were tracked.

Edited July 7, 2015 by Aggh

[cary2010haha1]

A lot of the 1.0 vets I've seen have at best average tracking skills (more important when ttk is longer) and never really grew out of being used to just twitch aiming someone with a couple bodyshots from a marelok.  Quite a few of them spend so much time running away instead of going for kills that it's no surprise that they have lesser KDs and probably even worse win/loss ratios if that were tracked.

1.0 vets only doing 1 V 1, and they may only gd at 1 V 1

 

 

in 2.0 we more like will be 1 V 7 or 1 pro+3 puds V 4 pro. These matches are huge different to 1v1.

and we develop more cheap ways to restrict their play style too.

[-dicht.ThanksFrost-]

A lot of the 1.0 vets I've seen have at best average tracking skills (more important when ttk is longer) and never really grew out of being used to just twitch aiming someone with a couple bodyshots from a marelok.  

If you can hit a flying target going at mach 1 in 1.0. I'm pretty sure you can consistently shoot a target and track it easily in 2.0.

 

1.0 vets only doing 1 V 1, and they may only gd at 1 V 1

 

 

in 2.0 we more like will be 1 V 7 or 1 pro+3 puds V 4 pro. These matches are huge different to 1v1.

and we develop more cheap ways to restrict their play style too.

u mean 2v2s

 

and regardless of that, soloist players and players are better at 1v1s can handle larger groups of enemies easier. 

 

Then there the "cheap" word i was looking for. You should struggle to beat a hard to learn play style not take a shortcut and get insta kills.

[Thalahssalyst]

-snip-

Again, no. We're not trying to make PvP gun only. We're trying to incorporate everything together, because right now it's simply broken as f*ck. 

No, everything its balanced, and skills are not one shotting like on 1.0 was, and weapons all are balanced for pvp.

As I did mention before, DSPvP was absolute trash and was a terrible decision on behalf of DE, but 1.0 was great because of the rules that were set. We had to make these rules because the game was even more broken before, and now with this new community at hand in 2.0, they simply wont put rules in because DE says they are "Balancing it", which honestly I consider bull or they just aren't listening to everyone's concerns. 

 

1.0 was great? So, why imaginary rules for player? Here you dont need that, here you dont depend on that rules, on traduction about that rules its :

Hey, you know, stop using it, its not "skillfully", use this, and this, and this, this, i think this too its okay, no this not, is not in the honor code", why the h... the player was forced to use something that they dont like it, or why the player cant use what they want, on a system where everything its available, because "skill" argument for who? Veterans? Honor? You dont need it here, player can choose what they want, because he want, because the system its balanced to use it.

 

Nothing is currently balanced in 3.0. I can't even begin to say why. It's either OP or sh*t. And the amount of energy available is way to much and simplifies strategies down to "grab energy, go to person, press button, shoot once or twice, win." Also, did you ever play true 1.0? (not the 2.0 trash) If you didn't, I honestly don't think you can make a proper argument about how bad 1.0 was because it was great once you got the hang of it. Everything was involved, not just guns, so you cant support that argument of 1.0 only being gun based. Yes, again, there weren't many attack abilities used, but most of the ones used were utility based, like ripline, shield, the zephyr one i cant remember, globe, etc etc. 

 

No, no everything was involved, the 1 shot things, 1 energy orb, and the copter focus on the game, just dont give you time to use "strategy" with warframes, everything was focused on guns, everyone who have played the 1.0 know that its true. And yes, the only thing used was that "mobility" skills, because 1 orb, and "honor code"

You know, i dont like when people try to take out arguments saying "o i never saw you there, or i dont think you have played it"

 

Yes i have more.

 

Again, refer to first point. We're not making it gun only. And you're half right on your next point. Although it would be fantastic for DE to have left both types of pvp on separate nodes, we know it's not coming back. So we vets aren't actually trying to bring 1.0 back, but instead fix the current 2.0 into a gametype that more people would enjoy. Yes, that includes bringing SOME parts of 1.0 back into PvP (not all of them), but instead mostly trying to fix what was brought into PvP and making it better without completely converting it into something else. I can't see how you can support the argument that we're trying to convert PvP back into 1.0.

 

You have to say something more clear about the "fix" word. This OP its trying to transform this current pvp, on how 1.0 was, limited energy 1 orb or 2 per team? If you have read the op, and everyone, its clear on how the "focus on gunplay" argument its on everything that he want.

Here are a couple of words:

First of all Restrict the 4th power and give it it's separate meter. This meter will go up based on kills but can only be obtained either via a high kill streak OR a high amount of kills.

Limit the energy orbs to 1 orb per team spawn area, make a middle orb that give the player access to his 4th. This way players will fight for the 4th cast and it will not be abused like it is now.

Make sure that this orb only appears 3-4 times per game. The weaker orbs, reduce the spawn time but make them accessible at least 4 time per game. So that there is a focus on gunplay without completely ignoring powers. <---- Focus on gun play, with limit energy, making the game more diffucult for low stats warframes as i say.

Addressing Melee as it can be extremely powerful. Make is so that player MUST equip their melee weapon in order to attack with it that way we can cater to the melee only players but not make them mash E when they are 1 meter from someone

Players spam too much because it works, players mash E too much because it works. <---- This make me laught about the " E "

 

I see people who never touched a real 1.0 conclave game in their life and somehow have a higher K/D than some of the 1.0 veterans I have seen in WF. You are telling me that the people in 1.0 who worked alot harder to get their kills have K/Ds that are lower than people who power spam? So ya i will be disrespectful because it gives players too much power and it needs to stop.

No one, ever, ever, its going to play something that people dont like.

 

He still can be a skilled player on this pvp,  have you saw RexSol on pvp? How he moves, how and when, included WHERE he uses skills etc?

You cant say that "veterans" are getting rekt... 

 

I hope that they do make a decision to reduce the amount of orbs. People don't play PvP because of how broken it is because of this. You need to see and understand that fact. It's the same as PvP 2.0. People didn't play because of how broken it was, and we all saw that. It's the same here, however now its completely reversed. 1.0/2.0 was guns, 3.0 is abilities. Why can't we help to make an in-between point? That's what we're trying to accomplish.

 

With all arguments, with everything that he say, with everything that he points, its clear the purpose of 1.0...

And its clear, on how the only thing considered "skill" its gun gameplay, if for all "veterans" (at least a lot of them) this current pvp need to be focused on melee for no damage, just for move, gun gameplay focused, and no energy orbs. If you think, or some people think that 1.0 was better compared to this, its the reason on why you think this is broken.

Edited July 7, 2015 by Grimlock-

[Aggh]

If you can hit a flying target going at mach 1 in 1.0. I'm pretty sure you can consistently shoot a target and track it easily in 2.0.

 

u mean 2v2s

 

and regardless of that, soloist players and players are better at 1v1s can handle larger groups of enemies easier. 

 

Then there the "cheap" word i was looking for. You should struggle to beat a hard to learn play style not take a shortcut and get insta kills.

Pfft if that were true all good counter strike players would all be good at quake too.  Decent twitch aim doesn't directly translate to good sustained aim.

[-dicht.ThanksFrost-]

Pfft if that were true all good counter strike players would all be good at quake too.  Decent twitch aim doesn't directly translate to good sustained aim.

yea. Im good at games like CS and quake whats your point?

 

 

 

He still can be a skilled player on this pvp,  have you saw RexSol on pvp? How he moves, how and when, included WHERE he uses skills etc?

You cant say that "veterans" are getting rekt... 

 

 

Congrats you used one of the highest if no the highest KDR player in warframe as a control kudos to you. Such a good example. I played rex myself once or twice (in 2.0) , never got frosted so many times in my life.

Edited July 7, 2015 by Eureka.seveN

[Aggh]

yea. Im good at games like CS and quake whats your point?

So you say.  Regardless, Anecdotal experience is not indicative of a trend

 

I guess you're not good at English  as well though.  The word "all" shouldn't have been hard to miss.  Try and say with a serious face that more professional CS players could perform as consistently well as professional quake players could as CS in their respective professional scenes.

 

How about an example that's easier tounderstand?  The transition from arena shooters like Quake and UT to arcade style shooters (ie low ttk twitch shooters) like COD came about largely because of the success that was a result of a lower skill barrier. resulting from the lower ttk and slower, less complex movement. 

 

The success and popularity of those changes are a consequence of how less common good sustained aim is compared to good twitch aim, even more so since worse twitch aim can be compensated for via positioning and map knowledge whereas good sustained aim requires those things to even be remotely possible.

 

Also, really don't get how you only have a 1.8 kd if you're so good as you say.  Even without power spam and just screwing around holding over a 2.0 kd shouldn't be hard considering the level of most players in conclave atm.

Edited July 7, 2015 by Aggh