My Genuine Feeling On Whats Wrong With This Game (Energy Esage)

[Me.Greedy]

"we're suposed to be OP ninjas."

 

LOL.. i like that.

[(XBOX)TheMadCash]

Get rid of energy. Replace it with cool downs. Remove efficiency mods altogether. Boom. Much easier to balance things.

That wont happen. They dont like cool downs. Watch the latest dev stream where they talked about mag greedy pull.

[(XBOX)TheMadCash]

They already said NO to ability cooldowns I believe.

They did. Cool downs will never be a thing.

[(XBOX)TheMadCash]

Cool downs will never happen. Think of Destiny. Those long &#! cool downs. Imagine you needed your ability on a swarm of enemies but its not halfway cooldowned & you get taken out. DE is doin good by not involving cooldowns

[Grom-84]

Then that is a problem WITH THE OTHER 3 ABILITIES.

 

Does anyone remember how long the cooldowns were?

 

In my opinion abilities should be on separate cooldowns, not shared like ME3.

This means you can spam slash dash over and over, but exalted blade must be saved for dire situations.

-like 1.5 second cooldown for slash dash

-at least 10 second cooldown for exalted blade(maybe more)

No fuk cooldowns) i hate them in any games i saw them running around like fool waiting till skills will be available while having full energy is so nasty annoying and $&*&*#(%&.

[420degreequicksopeswag]

Unfortunately everyone from Scott down looked at cooldowns and said "they didn't work before so don't use them!" rather than asking why they didn't work 

So, energy is working perfectly fine?

Hardly.

[Davoodoo]

No fuk cooldowns) i hate them in any games i saw them running around like fool waiting till skills will be available while having full energy is so nasty annoying and $&*&*#(%&.

Obviously you havent seen mass effect 2 and 3 where skills are all about combos and you can spam them.

 

Saying no to cooldowns is like saying every shooter is same and thus bad.

 

 

Hell even in wow you have at best short cooldowns on more powerful skills and long cooldowns on very strong buffs, they dont break flow even by tiny bit, in most cases you have problems with what to click next.

 

Ill tell you what happens when you have no cooldowns though, you pick your strongest skill and cast it endlessly. Just like old korean mmos did, examples are endless mu online, kal online etc.

 

 

Over the years mmo designers did their best to make combat more interesting than spamming single skill all while players grew less demanding of the games and would rather spam single skill over and over than have interesting combat.

Edited July 5, 2015 by Davoodoo

[EinheriarJudith]

Obviously you havent seen mass effect 2 and 3 where skills are all about combos and you can spam them.

 

Saying no to cooldowns is like saying every shooter is same and thus bad.

 

 

Hell even in wow you have at best short cooldowns on more powerful skills and long cooldowns on very strong buffs, they dont break flow even by tiny bit, in most cases you have problems with what to click next.

 

Ill tell you what happens when you have no cooldowns though, you pick your strongest skill and cast it endlessly. Just like old korean mmos did, examples are endless mu online, kal online etc.

 

 

Over the years mmo designers did their best to make combat more interesting than spamming single skill all while players grew less demanding of the games and would rather spam single skill over and over than have interesting combat.

Lineage 2 has cooldowns PW has cooldowns they are korean games. you cannont compare a third person shooter with parkour to WoW even trying to do so invalidates your argument. they tried cooldowns and it didnt work people wanted them gone so they removed them now you want them back LMAO scott doesnt think so and neither do many of us.

[Davoodoo]

Lineage 2 has cooldowns PW has cooldowns they are korean games. you cannont compare a third person shooter with parkour to WoW even trying to do so invalidates your argument. they tried cooldowns and it didnt work people wanted them gone so they removed them now you want them back LMAO scott doesnt think so and neither do many of us.

Ppl doesnt want any change. 

 

Nerfing abilities?? nope

Changing energy so abilities wont be spammable?? nope.

Nullifiers?? nope.

 

Community acts like childs, they want to avoid the inevitable instead of ensuring that new design is working for them.

Scott said so and only few from community wanted to prove that they actually can work.

 

Even you try to shrug it off and discredit me for arbitrary reason of comparing 2 different games, despite showing that cooldowns might also work in even most fast paced games.

Edited July 5, 2015 by Davoodoo

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

So, energy is working perfectly fine?

Hardly.

That would seem to be the obvious counter, but obviously not many people are thinking like that. I personally believe a hybrid energy/cooldown system would be best.

[Jin_Kazama]

 

Ppl doesnt want any change. 

 

Nerfing abilities?? nope

Changing energy so abilities wont be spammable?? nope.

Nullifiers?? nope.

 

Community acts like childs, they want to avoid the inevitable instead of ensuring that new design is working for them.

Scott said so and only few from community wanted to prove that they actually can work.

 

Even you try to shrug it off and discredit me for arbitrary reason of comparing 2 different games, despite showing that cooldowns might also work in even most fast paced games.

^THIS GUY

this guy gets it!

People prefer convenience, but in the end that convenience will lead and has lead to less game-play time. and also less fun overall of the game 

For example, you have the people that complain that a boss wont drop the item they want, and demand that there's a higher chance of them dropping it (Convenience) 

And then you have the people who complain that the boss needs more of a reason to fight it, because many people only needed to fight it maybe 3 times to get what they wanted (People who are looking for reasons to play other than a simple drop chance)

Edited July 6, 2015 by Haldos
Cleaning.

[Nep_Blanc]

 

 

^THIS GUY

this guy gets it!

People prefer convenience, but in the end that convenience will lead and has lead to less game-play time. and also less fun overall of the game 

For example, you have the people that complain that a boss wont drop the item they want, and demand that there's a higher chance of them dropping it (Convenience) 

And then you have the people who complain that the boss needs more of a reason to fight it, because many people only needed to fight it maybe 3 times to get what they wanted (People who are looking for reasons to play other than a simple drop chance)

 

I went with my friends against lvl 70+ enemies Wave 40 DSD Kadesh on Mars, well that was really nice to accomplish, although the game is trying to say: Stop you are going too far.

I get that by making enemies immensely overpowered late game the game tries to get you out, I tried a Mirage total eclipse build and we made it really far.

 

I was using Tonkor but if I did not do that and a friend did not shoot the caustic eximus enemies we failed the mission anyways.

we went with randoms and well I got killed loads of times even when standing on a "kemping spot" not to say That I took risks to rev my team members with lvl 50 enemies in the area.

 

The team was a Mirage(Me), Frost, GMag and a Zephir.

Mag was a bit AFK she said that and she did more late game (Not abusing Gpull), just a convenient pull on the end of waves.

We did not went with a Nekros and or a Vauban why? Well my friends are a bit more noob and do not have these frames.

And they did not bother getting them.

Thing is if I got a Mindless Mesa we had to go at wave 25 because as a matter of a fact she is not that op at all.

 

Also Saying mirage+tonkorx3dmgx5x2xtonkor-nates is op is not true, we almost did not make it because of Caustic eximusses,  they debuff Blast damage really bad.

Encounter a high lvl leech and your energy is gone before you know it.

Encounter a high lvl venomous eximus and your health pool is gone before you know it.

Encounter a high lvl Mutalist Moa that one shots you with his Tar trap.

Encounter a high lvl etc....

 

So conclusion: Nerfing every warframe with a timer is going to make game-play less fun and to accomplish this really hard,if not impossible to accomplish.

It will result in more grind and more mindless ways to get around that grind, people stay lazy!!!

 

I hope now most people get why nerfing in PvE is not needed till this point.

 

I tell my experience of this nice and fun game play I really enjoyed it and my friends and the randoms as well.

 

 

 

Chao, The Roaring Lion Warlord of shadow Lords

Edited July 6, 2015 by Haldos
Cleaning.

[Grom-84]

Obviously you havent seen mass effect 2 and 3 where skills are all about combos and you can spam them.

 

Saying no to cooldowns is like saying every shooter is same and thus bad.

 

 

Hell even in wow you have at best short cooldowns on more powerful skills and long cooldowns on very strong buffs, they dont break flow even by tiny bit, in most cases you have problems with what to click next.

 

Ill tell you what happens when you have no cooldowns though, you pick your strongest skill and cast it endlessly. Just like old korean mmos did, examples are endless mu online, kal online etc.

 

 

Over the years mmo designers did their best to make combat more interesting than spamming single skill all while players grew less demanding of the games and would rather spam single skill over and over than have interesting combat.

Wrong) I played mass defect and i hated that cooldows on skills, pretty much the same as i hated those cooldowns in diablo 3, titan quest or any other game where cooldowns were implemented. I agree yes, that using only 1 ability all the time is boring... but well i'd prefere the rest of the 3 skills being reworked instead forcing you with cooldowns to use them, while the main skill is disabled. Look at frost, ember, valkyr saryn etc they have like 1-2 usefull skills and the rest is just trash. What will you do on T4 defence if for example, playing with frost your sphere will be destroyed in 2-3 seconds, having cooldown on this skill like 10 seconds? use "the rest" of your skills? but none of them will prevent the pod being destroyed in miliseconds by those op bombards, or you won't being able to cast another sphere to pick up your teammate if the roket explosion will throw him away from the safety. So fuk that "interesting", "innovative" cooldowns. Let us rest from them at least in this game.  

[geninrising]

Ability spam virtually ruined the game a long time ago. First it was cooldowns and those admittedly failed because people being lazy generally would clear a room with ults wait 20 seconds and walk to the next room. Then came energy 1.0. DE changed skills to be based on energy but then skills were set to be too expensive, and therefore rarely used except in OH CRAP moments(to be honest this was the perfect time IMO in Warframe, Ults were literally used when the odds were overwhelming and they did their job beautifully) and the rest of the powers filled in nicely elsewhere(aside from God Rhino and the ever lasting immortal Globe). Energy came and went at a decent amount and it was necessary that you play in a balanced manner overall so gunplay/melee/powers were quite balanced as far as DPS and usefulness. At this time efficiency was only able to hit 30% and it was fine. Well at this point DE finds that enemies are wiped easier and therefore they need to add MOAR at once and give them MOAR HP, Warframe becomes a horde shooter rather than a space ninja game. Then comes corrupted mods. This is where the game finally went fully on tilt into p#2W territory(be it #1#2#3#4). Now the devs see a massive problem as NOTHING is a challenge any more with certain setups and that makes the game boring, so for the behavior of a few people"exploiting" the synergies inherent in their kits EVERYONE is now forced to deal with eximus units that steal mass amounts of energy, Nullifiers, and who knows what else. To top it off, nowadays players that simply want to play a balanced game of guns swords and powers are basically forced to segregate themselves in solo or hunt down NON-power spammers to group with in order to have fun. Power spam is a large problem and if DE could get it under control they could boost rewards for doing missions and allow EVERYONE to actually play the game the way it is MEANT to be played without constant nerfs to crap because they just can't see the problem's core rather than symptoms expressed.

 

Of course there is going to be a p42w person come in immediately and tell me I'm wrong, but ask yourself this. Did DE or did they not explain that power spamming in the "Homers Drinking Bird"  style was a problem? Everything up till now is a simple bandaid to address this problem of energy is far too readily available constantly and people have a greatly vested interest in being powerful enough to wipe rooms instantly over and over again in order to be efficient due to the fact that acquiring all the necessities to do EVERYTHING in this game is not fun at all.

[Nep_Blanc]

Wrong) I played mass defect and i hated that cooldows on skills, pretty much the same as i hated those cooldowns in diablo 3, titan quest or any other game where cooldowns were implemented. I agree yes, that using only 1 ability all the time is boring... but well i'd prefere the rest of the 3 skills being reworked instead forcing you with cooldowns to use them, while the main skill is disabled. Look at frost, ember, valkyr saryn etc they have like 1-2 usefull skills and the rest is just trash. What will you do on T4 defence if for example, playing with frost your sphere will be destroyed in 2-3 seconds, having cooldown on this skill like 10 seconds? use "the rest" of your skills? but none of them will prevent the pod being destroyed in miliseconds by those op bombards, or you won't being able to cast another sphere to pick up your teammate if the roket explosion will throw him away from the safety. So fuk that "interesting", "innovative" cooldowns. Let us rest from them at least in this game.  

So true Try a TIV defence on wave 15, your snowglobe is really an glass globe on that moment and is shot down in no time.

Not to say that nullifiers are op as well with their minigun lankas, yes that is what they are they shoot like crazy and also bombards wtf blast through the snow globe?

If you do a cooldown on a frost snowglobe no one will ever get the loki prime that does have to farm it, I already hate to go for TIV defence because it thrives you to go with a mesa, frost, gmag and a buff frame like mirage and still you get kicked ! every time.

 

Ability spam virtually ruined the game a long time ago. First it was cooldowns and those admittedly failed because people being lazy generally would clear a room with ults wait 20 seconds and walk to the next room. Then came energy 1.0. DE changed skills to be based on energy but then skills were set to be too expensive, and therefore rarely used except in OH CRAP moments(to be honest this was the perfect time IMO in Warframe, Ults were literally used when the odds were overwhelming and they did their job beautifully) and the rest of the powers filled in nicely elsewhere(aside from God Rhino and the ever lasting immortal Globe). Energy came and went at a decent amount and it was necessary that you play in a balanced manner overall so gunplay/melee/powers were quite balanced as far as DPS and usefulness. At this time efficiency was only able to hit 30% and it was fine. Well at this point DE finds that enemies are wiped easier and therefore they need to add MOAR at once and give them MOAR HP, Warframe becomes a horde shooter rather than a space ninja game. Then comes corrupted mods. This is where the game finally went fully on tilt into p#2W territory(be it #1#2#3#4). Now the devs see a massive problem as NOTHING is a challenge any more with certain setups and that makes the game boring, so for the behavior of a few people"exploiting" the synergies inherent in their kits EVERYONE is now forced to deal with eximus units that steal mass amounts of energy, Nullifiers, and who knows what else. To top it off, nowadays players that simply want to play a balanced game of guns swords and powers are basically forced to segregate themselves in solo or hunt down NON-power spammers to group with in order to have fun. Power spam is a large problem and if DE could get it under control they could boost rewards for doing missions and allow EVERYONE to actually play the game the way it is MEANT to be played without constant nerfs to crap because they just can't see the problem's core rather than symptoms expressed.

 

Of course there is going to be a p42w person come in immediately and tell me I'm wrong, but ask yourself this. Did DE or did they not explain that power spamming in the "Homers Drinking Bird"  style was a problem? Everything up till now is a simple bandaid to address this problem of energy is far too readily available constantly and people have a greatly vested interest in being powerful enough to wipe rooms instantly over and over again in order to be efficient due to the fact that acquiring all the necessities to do EVERYTHING in this game is not fun at all.

Uh did you ever play high lvl missions and took time to do so or are you just a mercury player that thinks he is immensely overpowered?

I don't think so, also if you wanna get a challenge take dragon keys on you and remove mods of your warframes and see how you are complaining about being op and that you need a cooldown.

The whole point of us being op is that we have to play tactical and smart, if we do not do so we fail those missions and sometimes the best way is going for the kemping way because you do not have a choice.

 

Making it a challenge means that you will get one shot and that is not fun. But that is the thing this game is a farming simulator and you have to shoot hordes of enemies that get harder to kill when they get on higher lvles it becomes challenging because you choose so to make it challenging.

If you hate spammers then go solo and with friends who think the same, make a no spammer ability clan and recruit no spamming abil users on Warframe, I do not judge you for that if you wanna have a challenge earlier only difference it takes longer for me to have a challenge and when it takes longer its also pretty hard to prevent failure because of the insane damage the enemies do at that point.

At that point you are making it really tense and tight because you are on that point not OP at all Like I said you likely get one shot anyways.

 

I hope that this thread stops soon its really stupid to think that stuff is op.

Synergizing setups are great and good to use, why? it makes the best out of your game and setup and promotes high end gameplay.

Spamming abils is a problem on the one caster frames. I used loads of abilities on Mirage and well could say she is a great all over warframe Ez to kill but has great damage output.

 

 

Conclusion time: keep energy and warframes alone that are balanced till this point, the warframes that get a rework like excalibur need a little balancing but even then I got one shot with excalibur so for me its no deal that we are op till a certain point.

Being op in this game makes it fun for me and most of those players it makes it fun and it is fun if you like the way to play like this.

 

 

Chao, The Roaring Lion Warlord of Shadow Lords

Edited July 6, 2015 by TheRoaringLion

[Davoodoo]

-snip-

Should i really strip myself of everything, pick only unranked skana and bring myself only battery trinity against 100+ lvls to prove how wrong are you.

 

No, actually i dont cause in your idiocy you didnt realise that forgoing whole progression just to have any semblance of difficulty is broken design.

[Nep_Blanc]

Should i really strip myself of everything, pick only unranked skana and bring myself only battery trinity against 100+ lvls to prove how wrong are you.

 

No, actually i dont cause in your idiocy you didnt realise that forgoing whole progression just to have any semblance of difficulty is broken design.

you still do not see it do you?

Thing is this game is EZ till a certain point and if you wanna relive that noob feel go on and make yourself a challenge.

 

Peace out

 

Chao, The Roaring Lion Warlord of Shadow Lords.

[Davoodoo]

you still do not see it do you?

Thing is this game is EZ till a certain point and if you wanna relive that noob feel go on and make yourself a challenge.

 

Peace out

 

Chao, The Roaring Lion Warlord of Shadow Lords.

No it isnt, before we had corrupted mods, forma, weapons with over 10k dps and even without maxed mods ive been clearing lvl 1000 enemies.

 

Damage 2.0 lessened scaling, corrupted mods added to spammability, range and duration, weapons got 6 times as much dps with help of forma and new auras stripped enemies of their armor.

 

Game was piss easy since mods 2.0 and further updates made it easier.

 

At this point i can win against lvl 9999 enemies no problem, they will prove as dangerous as lvl 1 enemies.

So where is this point where game stops being easy??

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

The thing with cooldowns is they already exist, due to energy siphon, and yet people aren't hiding in a different room and waiting for their ult while it's equipped. Why? Because actively killing is promoted as well, and because there are more enemies now than when cooldowns existed (so running to another room accomplishes far less). All that has to happen for cooldowns is that they can be shortened drastically by killing enemies (although killing with an ability/while self-buffed by an ability/on enemies affected by an ability wouldn't shorten the cooldown for that ability, it would for the others), and that each ability has its own. Voila, spamming's been dealt with, hiding and waiting has become even less helpful, active play is encouraged, using all four abilities is encouraged, without permanent 95% damage reduction DE had no reason to make enemies do 20X more damage than they should. People who like abilities can use them constantly, just not the map clearing ultimates or powerful CC.

[Nep_Blanc]

No it isnt, before we had corrupted mods, forma, weapons with over 10k dps and even without maxed mods ive been clearing lvl 1000 enemies.

 

Damage 2.0 lessened scaling, corrupted mods added to spammability, range and duration, weapons got 6 times as much dps with help of forma and new auras stripped enemies of their armor.

 

Game was piss easy since mods 2.0 and further updates made it easier.

 

At this point i can win against lvl 9999 enemies no problem, they will prove as dangerous as lvl 1 enemies.

So where is this point where game stops being easy??

Really lvl 9999 enemies that was ages ago now they changed enemy lvles, Play the game and proove you got that far, if so how did your computer not crash because of a Integer out of bounds error/double out of bounds error. just saying bringing up that lvl number of enemies makes your argument invalid and not believable.

Play the game and don't *@##$ out bing op you are definitely not.

 

 

 

Chao, The Roaring Lion Warlord of Shadow Lords

[EinheriarJudith]

Really lvl 9999 enemies that was ages ago now they changed enemy lvles, Play the game and proove you got that far, if so how did your computer not crash because of a Integer out of bounds error/double out of bounds error. just saying bringing up that lvl number of enemies makes your argument invalid and not believable.

Play the game and don't *@##$ out bing op you are definitely not.

 

 

 

Chao, The Roaring Lion Warlord of Shadow Lords

I felt his argument was a lil farfetched as well.

[Nep_Blanc]

Yes it is. Op to the point of being broken.

No amount of time/effort/money spent should make me impossible to be hit. Game which cant be lost losses its point.

 

And i wont die at endgame, how do i know?? because i laughed at 150lvl enemies, i laughed at 300lvl enemies, i would probably laugh at 9999lvl if game didnt crash past certain wave and i would be playing at toilet.

Whatever enemy comes at squad of tenno, theyll be floating in bastille, slowed to 10% of their normal speed by mprime, while being disarmed with radiation proc from loki.

I felt his argument was a lil farfetched as well.

 

His earlier post well he did perhaps made it to kill lvl 300 enemies possibly without crashing. but still I do not believe we are op the players play smart and get that far I think it is perfectly normal and good to accomplish.

 

 

Peace out again.

 

 

Chao, The Roaring Lion Warlord of Shadow Lords

Edited July 6, 2015 by TheRoaringLion

[420degreequicksopeswag]

If cooldowns become a thing, efficiency mods may become cooldown reduction mods.

 

So calm down everyone about long cooldowns.(lol 75% cooldown reduction...)

 

Here is a solution to 4 spammage:

 

1st through 3rd abilities are on somewhat short cooldowns and can be used whenever

 

4th ability can only be used after dealing enough % damage to enemies or helping out your teammates

 

After which it is ready to go

[EinheriarJudith]

If cooldowns become a thing, efficiency mods may become cooldown reduction mods.

 

So calm down everyone about long cooldowns.(lol 75% cooldown reduction...)

 

Here is a solution to 4 spammage:

 

1st through 3rd abilities are on somewhat short cooldowns and can be used whenever

 

4th ability can only be used after dealing enough % damage to enemies or helping out your teammates

 

After which it is ready to go

Cooldowns will never become a thing as far as DE_Scott is concerned.

[Grom-84]

No. Any delay even small like 0.5 will be enough to be killed. in fact even without cooldowns i encountered such situations where i was killed right after i applied defensive buff so i dont even want to think about any cooldown implementation.

 

And by the way there are cooldowns in this game - rhino cant use his stomp second time while there are some enemies affected by the previous stomp, or nyx cant recast chaos while at least 1 enemy affected by previous cast is alive - this is so annoying to the point that im not playing with those frames, despite the fact that i like them.

Edited July 6, 2015 by Grom-84