Who Needs Copter Or Directional When We Got Bullet Jump

[Inez]

+1 to this.

If I don't quit playing for the day because I am bored of it after playing for hours, it is because I start getting a cramp from the repetitive button mashing of slide jump/coptoring

 

As it turns out, PC games allow you to change your keys. You should try it.

 

The more you know!

[_JustSomeone_]

i can see it now.. the new rusher ... xD .. Anyways cant wait to try it out

[Vargras]

Well... BulletJump looks cool. But that's about it.

 

It LOOKS cool. This is nowhere near as effective as coptering.

Ah yes, the thing you have yet to use once is nowhere near as effective as the thing you have been doing for months/years.

 

That makes sense.

Edited July 10, 2015 by Vargras

[(PSN)Void_Girl]

Does not compare to Tipedo or Scoliac. 

[SourTaco]

Copter 2.0.

[Vargras]

Does not compare to Tipedo or Scoliac. 

 

Ah yes, the thing you have yet to use once is nowhere near as effective as the thing you have been doing for months/years.

 

That makes sense.

[D3ST]

Im a die hard coptering fan, however i always hated that to copter any good, u need to use specific melee weaps.

wich leaves 98% of all the melee weaps. in he game useless to me.. 

this new system, seems promising, as long as we can keep moving real fast around the maps, plus, we can now use the weaps. we actually like the best, and not what can propell us the fartest..

[(PSN)Void_Girl]

 

 

If that measly double jump can fling me across Cerberus, I'll take it back.

Edited July 10, 2015 by (PS4)Void_Girl

[(PSN)Lowk721]

Nice

Now I wait and hope they make the wall hoping animation look better.

[Buzkyl]

If that measly double jump can fling me across Cerberus, I'll take it back.

And that is why coptering is dying.

What do you mean in CAN'T skip an entire map in one go using a specific weapon?

[MihawkDulacr1]

I personally cant wait to try the new system out, maybe it will finally be and look awesome :3  What hypes that i finally dont have to force myself to a melee weapon that i dont personally like

[TheMagicalSharpie]

Nothing will be as fast as coptering. Why is this still a concern. It's already been confirmed that we will be losing "some speed" because coptering was just that ridiculously fast. 

Except that I'd rather have speed over flair.  We're supposedly ninja right?  Ninja don't flair, that's not their thing.  Be fast, be decisive.   The slide off the stairs coptering across a tileset was too fast, yes.  Spinning along the ground?  Not so much, it covered about the same distance as a directional melee, which is far faster than even a bullet dash if vision serves.  If the warframe sped up through uninterrupted movement then this would reward efficient play, but it would also punish those who use snail tactics of armor > maneuverability, which was what made coptering great for slower, beefier frames.   If run speed isn't improved then this little slide+jump wannabe is only going to hamper movement and we'll be losing more than just "some" speed.

[Gale47]

Except that I'd rather have speed over flair.  We're supposedly ninja right?  Ninja don't flair, that's not their thing.  Be fast, be decisive.   The slide off the stairs coptering across a tileset was too fast, yes.  Spinning along the ground?  Not so much, it covered about the same distance as a directional melee, which is far faster than even a bullet dash if vision serves.  If the warframe sped up through uninterrupted movement then this would reward efficient play, but it would also punish those who use snail tactics of armor > maneuverability, which was what made coptering great for slower, beefier frames.   If run speed isn't improved then this little slide+jump wannabe is only going to hamper movement and we'll be losing more than just "some" speed.

Well, we'd like the game to look and play nice instead, thank you very much.

[TheMagicalSharpie]

And that is why coptering is dying.

What do you mean in CAN'T skip an entire map in one go using a specific weapon?

Let's put it this way.

 

"Hey guys lets take a look at this cool new tile set." 

*Spawns in* 

"Oh wow this is neat."

*5 Runs later*

"Oh, this one's even cooler than the others , must be a rarer tile."

*10 runs later*

"Oh, this must be the rarest one of all, first time seeing it, right guys?"

*50 runs later*

"Ok, skip the tunnel, jump the gorge, dodge the lazers by hopping over the building they're in - you guys know the drill and Jimmy... *pause*  "Don't fall into the pit of death when you use that shortcut ok?"

*2000 runs later*

"Ok does everyone have Nova, Volt and Zephyr?  Good, lets make this quick."

 

 

What do you mean in CAN'T skip an entire map in one go using a specific weapon?

 

"What do you mean we have to SPRINT through the same boring tile now?  What happened to 'coptering'?  *pause*  "You removed it?  Why?  Do you WANT to run all the way there every time?"  *Pause*  "That replacement move looks soooo slow though..."   *Pause*   "Ok then...  *Turns*  "Looks like the Meta's the same boy's, rushing is still Volt, Nova and Zephyr territory, we just can't throw ourselves around like spin to win.  Gear up and grab Range boys,and make sure you have power duration and strength up Volt.  Nova, you're on Portal duty.  Zephyr, jet stream all the things. Let's make this quicker."

 

You see my point?  You're not removing copter-rushing, you're just forcing people to use a certain set of frames to do the same thing.  People love speed, being told to slow down to look a bit flashier is stupid and a waste of time when they're just going to tune out the animations a few days into playing it anyway.  We've always chosen utility over flair, it''s why Karak wraith won over Dera Vandal, because Karak was more useful not that it looked better, Karak wraith looked like dirt compared to the Dera Vandal but more people chose utility over form.  This is especially apparent due to the fact that utility doesn't wear off after playing with it for a few days, while I and many people haven't touched the Karak Wraith after leveling it because there were still better weapons that had better utility and we used them instead.

Edited July 10, 2015 by TheMagicalSharpie

[Gale47]

Let's put it this way.

 

"Hey guys lets take a look at this cool new tile set." 

*Spawns in* 

"Oh wow this is neat."

*5 Runs later*

"Oh, this one's even cooler than the others , must be a rarer tile."

*10 runs later*

"Oh, this must be the rarest one of all, first time seeing it, right guys?"

*50 runs later*

"Ok, skip the tunnel, jump the gorge, dodge the lazers by hopping over the building they're in - you guys know the drill and Jimmy... *pause*  "Don't fall into the pit of death when you use that shortcut ok?"

*2000 runs later*

"Ok does everyone have Nova, Volt and Zephyr?  Good, lets make this quick."

 

 

What do you mean in CAN'T skip an entire map in one go using a specific weapon?

 

"What do you mean we have to SPRINT through the same boring tile now?  What happened to 'coptering'?  *pause*  "You removed it?  Why?  Do you WANT to run all the way there every time?"  *Pause*  "That replacement move looks soooo slow though..."   *Pause*   "Ok then...  *Turns*  "Looks like the Meta's the same boy's, rushing is still Volt, Nova and Zephyr territory, we just can't throw ourselves around like spin to win.  Gear up and grab Range boys,and make sure you have power duration and strength up Volt.  Nova, you're on Portal duty.  Zephyr, jet stream all the things. Let's make this quicker."

 

You see my point?  You're not removing copter-rushing, you're just forcing people to use a certain set of frames to do the same thing.  People love speed, being told to slow down to look a bit flashier is stupid and a waste of time when they're just going to tune out the animations a few days into playing it anyway.  We've always chosen utility over flair, it''s why Karak wraith won over Dera Vandal, because Karak was more useful not that it looked better, Karak wraith looked like dirt compared to the Dera Vandal but more people chose utility over form.  This is especially apparent due to the fact that utility doesn't wear off after playing with it for a few days, while I and many people haven't touched the Karak Wraith after leveling it because there were still better weapons that had better utility and we used them instead.

Okay, let me put it this way - if you're only interested in using the best weapons with the highest DPS and the best utility, that's your problem. If you can't play the game as it was meant to be played, that's your problem. 

There's a certain pleasure in using things that aren't OP, that philosophy extends well to movement also. 

[TheMagicalSharpie]

Well, we'd like the game to look and play nice instead, thank you very much.

An opinion..  I'd like my PS2 games to look and play nice in this day and age too, I don't see anyone remaking a vast majority of them do you?

 

And even then they all had their glitches and exploits that made some of the more tedious games bearable, some of them were even kept by the developers in later games/versions?   Why?  Because they were useful and fun.

[(XBOX)LordPuck]

An opinion..  I'd like my PS2 games to look and play nice in this day and age too, I don't see anyone remaking a vast majority of them do you?

 

And even then they all had their glitches and exploits that made some of the more tedious games bearable, some of them were even kept by the developers in later games/versions?   Why?  Because they were useful and fun.

Why do people use this example? Ok by your example, Halo 2 removed the Sword lunge because it allowed flying with swords. Hmm exactly what happens in warframe. Why, because it was broken and an exploit. 

[TheMagicalSharpie]

Okay, let me put it this way - if you're only interested in using the best weapons with the highest DPS and the best utility, that's your problem. If you can't play the game as it was meant to be played, that's your problem. 

There's a certain pleasure in using things that aren't OP, that philosophy extends well to movement also. 

...pft hahahah that's a funny joke.  Oh you were serious?  Let me laugh HARDER then BWAAAHAHAAHHHA.

 

There is no "As it was meant to be played."  Because once a game that has as much variety as this lands into a players hands, there is no "Right" way to play, Arrogant self-entitled people say that and they tend to make games like this hard to enjoy.  You think just because you play "proper" by following what little of a tutorial this game gives you that suddenly you know how this game is meant to be played, that you know what's the best way for everyone to play?  I think not. Take your arrogance and walk away. I'll play with the tools given to me how I want to play with them.  They were GIVEN to me to use how I saw fit though ingenuity and skill, they weren't leased to me with express instructions to run this way, walk to that point, bend over then shove this skana where the sun don't shine.  Nope, nada.  I don't see those directions on any of my weapon's, warframes or mods.

 

I never said I didn't play with things that weren't op, I just said there were better utility weapons that were better than Karak.  Just because I have a boltor prime doesn't mean I wont use a Glaxion, Grakata or Drakgoon in the same missions,  these just have better strengths than a silly assault rifle that's only marginally better than it's base form,  we still chose it over the laughing stock that Dera Vandal was because it was a much better gun by comparison.  I like using guns with the best utility because they work.  Would you like to take your precious 6 forma Lato to a T4 defense and run 40+ waves or would you like to take something that's actually useful, it doesn't have to be a Boltor Prime or Soma Prime but just something that actually contributes instead of just "looking good"  which is what I was getting at.  Replacing coptering with "that" thing you call a slide jump for mobility is pathetic if it doesn't contribute to the whole.

Edited July 10, 2015 by TheMagicalSharpie

[TheMagicalSharpie]

Why do people use this example? Ok by your example, Halo 2 removed the Sword lunge because it allowed flying with swords. Hmm exactly what happens in warframe. Why, because it was broken and an exploit. 

"Because it allowed flying with swords."   Because it didn't fit in with the lore maybe?   Aliens and humans that don't have the magical ability of flight being able to fly yet they are in a setting where jet packs are highly possible?  

 

"Hey, people like this glitch but it doesn't fit with our vision of the game, ideas?"

 

"How about we add jet packs, I mean they're using power armor why not jetpacks,  keep the flying lose the break in immersion?"

 

"Oh my you are a genius."

 

 

Now compare.  Magical space ninjas who have powers that literally break reality and one of which IS capable of flight, super speed and a number of other fast moving abilities.  Coptering doesn't break the immersion.  I am a magical space ninja, I expect to move like lightning and strike like thunder, if you don't then you aren't magical enough.

Edited July 10, 2015 by TheMagicalSharpie

[(XBOX)LordPuck]

"Because it allowed flying with swords."   Because it didn't fit in with the lore maybe?   Aliens and humans that don't have the magical ability of flight being able to fly yet they are in a setting where jet packs are highly possible?  

 

"Hey, people like this glitch but it doesn't fit with our vision of the game, ideas?"

 

"How about we add jet packs, I mean they're using power armor why not jetpacks,  keep the flying lose the break in immersion?"

 

"Oh my you are a genius."

 

 

Now compare.  Magical space ninjas who have powers that literally break reality and once of which IS capable of flight, super speed and a number of other fast moving abilities.  Coptering doesn't break the immersion.  I am a magical space ninja, I expect to move like lightning and strike like thunder, if you don't then you aren't magical enough.

Volt.............Nova, Loki, Valkyr

 

Im done with this topic. Too many people going blindly in circles.

So I dont keep bumping stupidity, Using certain melee weapons to fly is exactly what ppl do now. Using frames that have mobility powers fer mobility, maybe DE should make... ohhh wait they did......

Edited July 10, 2015 by (XB1)LordPuck

[TheMagicalSharpie]

Volt.............

 

You see my point?  You're not removing copter-rushing, you're just forcing people to use a certain set of frames to do the same thing.

 

"-Nova, Loki, Valkyr

 

Im done with this topic. Too many people going blindly in circles.

So I dont keep bumping stupidity, Using certain melee weapons to fly is exactly what ppl do now. Using frames that have mobility powers fer mobility, maybe DE should make... ohhh wait they did......"

 

 

I was never denying that there are mobility frames but coptering is not a Frame, it's a TOOL for you to get your frame around regardless of type.  If I want to be frost and go after a capture target then I have the right to be,  does it annoy me that I have to now slog after zephyr who can cross tiles EXACTLY like coptering, at glacial (hurrhurr) speed without the ability to at least attempt to keep up?  It hardly seems fair.  We're sacrificing damage and utility from most melee weapons to copter, that's a good offset.  Maneuverability by sacrificing a decent weapon, seems a fair trade off to me.  If they want to remove coptering then give us the capability to move at a similar speed, not through a glitch or exploit but through an actual ability.  I don't expect to get through from one end of a tile to the next but I at least to expect a plain old spin attack or directional melee level range/speed from what they're replacing it with.

 

 

Nice post-reply edit btw.  Edit:  Also nice ducking out of the debate by calling this "Blindly going in circles"  Instead of understanding my point you just throw the main point of why I'm arguing in my face.  Mobility tools should be separate from the warframes, else it just pigeon holes certain frames for certain missions.  It's a problem now and it will continue to be a problem until more mobility tools are released.  People are just complaining about coptering because it threw them into a wall and magically squashed them through a seam out into the  game abyss to die.  I've never had that problem even with max speed Tipedo, so I don't know what to tell you.   Edit: actually I've had more trouble with Void doors eating me then squirting me out into the abyss like a jelly bean than anything else in this game.

Edited July 10, 2015 by TheMagicalSharpie

[Gale47]

...pft hahahah that's a funny joke.  Oh you were serious?  Let me laugh HARDER then BWAAAHAHAAHHHA.

 

There is no "As it was meant to be played."  Because once a game that has as much variety as this lands into a players hands, there is no "Right" way to play, it's arrogant self-entitled people like yourself that make games like this terrible.  You think just because you play "proper" by following what little of a tutorial this game gives you that suddenly you know how this game is meant to be played, that you know what's the best way for everyone to play?  I think not. Take your arrogance and shove it. I'll play with the tools given to me how I want to play with them.  They were GIVEN to me to use how I saw fit though ingenuity and skill, they weren't leased to me with express instructions to run this way, walk to that point, bend over then shove this skana where the sun don't shine.  Nope, nada.  I don't see those directions on any of my weapon's, warframes or mods.

 

I never said I didn't play with things that weren't op, I just said there were better utility weapons that were better than Karak.  Just because I have a boltor prime doesn't mean I wont use a Glaxion, Grakata or Drakgoon in the same missions,  these just have better strengths than a silly assault rifle that's only marginally better than it's base form,  we still chose it over the laughing stock that Dera Vandal was because it was a much better gun by comparison.  I like using guns with the best utility because they work.  Would you like to take your precious 6 forma Lato to a T4 defense and run 40+ waves or would you like to take something that's actually useful, it doesn't have to be a Boltor Prime or Soma Prime but just something that actually contributes instead of just "looking good"  which is what I was getting at.  Replacing coptering with "that" thing you call a slide jump for mobility is pathetic if it doesn't contribute to the whole.

Buddy, it's nice that you keep trying, but it's not me who's arrogant. Sacrifices have to be made so that the game continually improves as a whole. Coptering is not something this game needs and thus should be removed - the faster the better. 

[HunterHog]

That syandana caught my eye though. Is that a cloth physics cape?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Please be a cloth physics cape.

 

 

GIB ME

[TheMagicalSharpie]

Buddy, it's nice that you keep trying, but it's not me who's arrogant. Sacrifices have to be made so that the game continually improves as a whole. Coptering is not something this game needs and thus should be removed - the faster the better. 

So, telling me that I should play the game how you play it isn't arrogant?  Telling me that I should be satisfied with the way other people play the game?  That is the very definition of arrogance, thinking your way is better by default.   

 

Coptering as you know it is not needed, I agree.  Sliding down some stairs and rocketing across a tile isn't needed, that ends up slamming me into a wall and me not moving for a few seconds.   What coptering is to me is sliding along the ground about 15 feet in one fluid move then being able to chain that to make sure I can actually keep up with frames like nova or volt while huffing and puffing along as Frost or Chroma.  I could care less if "coptering" as you know it gets removed.  I want "coptering" as I know it to stay, if not in body then spirit.  I WANT to move at reasonable speeds without having to be forced to choose from 3-4 frames that pidgeon hole me into a certain play style.  What if I want to to have a Purely defensive Chroma in a survival and I'm the designated Rezzer?  Huh?  I can no longer copter so I'm forced to run and with Parkour2.0 Bullet into double jump, which by my estimates is slower than a regular copter AS I KNOW IT and now my teammate dies because he was going to get LS, ran out of oxygen and now missions failed. 

 

Why?  because he didn't stay close?  No one really stays that close during Survivals, he was going to get LS too.  Because we didn't plan our strategies better?  We shouldn't have to be forced to take mobility into account when forming a strategy, it should be a given for all frames, We are magical space ninja's we should act like it, if not in body then spirit.  If the bullet jump moved me forward another 5-10 feet into the double jump then I wouldn't mind that much,  the distance we have now with directional melee would be retained and still gives a fluid way to move around, not this anemic barely serviceable bullet jump that as it stands I am not impressed with at all.  THAT was my whole argument this entire time. 

 

De removing coptering to implement Parkour 2.0 is a bug bear with me if they can't keep the sense of speed going, if we have to slow down to get a bit of flair then the speed of this game, this feeling of momentum and weight that makes playing this game a visceral experience is not maintained.

 

"Sacrifices have to be made so that the game continually improves as a whole."

 

Why should we have to sacrifice this? Why remove a movement tool to begin with?  If you don't like some aspects of the tool, change it a bit, don't gut it and expect things to work out, give it a haircut, buy it some new clothing and get it some new shoes, then push it out the door with all it's fancy deckings and brace for the praise for making what would normally be considered borked into something that everyone can enjoy without it wigging out and throwing you into a wall.  Take away the borked "slide across a tile in one spin." aspect of coptering and it wouldn't be anywhere as controversial.

 

Edit: Also edited some of my previous posts a bit, I was a tad bit more rude and confrontational than intended, I have corrected this somewhat.

Edited July 10, 2015 by TheMagicalSharpie

[Dillon_J]

forward slide and jump... awesome i do that all the time already haha