Trading System / Shops On Relays

[Malikon]

How so?  You dont have to sell to those buyers.  In fact you can plainly ignore them if they dont meet your requirements.  If moving an item quickly is that important to you, then realize that the negative side effects must be dealt with for sellers the same as they are for buyers attempting to acquire quickly. 

 

In this particular way, your prices are set.  When someone undercuts you, then that is the fault of an unscrupulous seller for selling cheaper, not an unscrupulous buyer for buying cheaper.  To be honest, sellers gain the EXACT SAME protectection the buyer gets, with only their brethren having the ability to screw them over.

 

In short, buyers wont be able to hurt you, only other sellers. And no one is very few going to sell for prices that grossly undervalue the effort for acquisition.  I think you're relatively safe.

 

edit: Those that do sell for prices that grossly undervalue effort should be in short supply and market would eventually reach an equilibrium with the occasional outlier that will quickly be picked off.

Edited July 15, 2015 by Malikon

[Phatose]

No one needs to buy from unscrupulous sellers either, yet you're trying to protect people from them.   That sword cuts both ways.

 

And no, sellers don't get the same protections, not in the proposed system.  See above - re: seller makes a mistake, undervalues an item, gets ripped off vs. buyer makes a mistake, overvalues an item, browsing other peoples prices protects him.

 

And even more so, it's NOT the same protection because other buyers *can't* screw over cheapskate buyers with the OPs proposed system.  If the cheapskate walks up first, they win.  No competition.  Their comrades can't rush in and offer more - they don't have to compete.

 

Which is why I'm proposing the silent auction type system.  That way, they do have to compete with other buyers.

Edited July 15, 2015 by Phatose

[Malikon]

Im not trying to protect anybody, I just happen to see that both parties get protected, more informed, AND have a much better method of finding each other. 

 

I dont suppose the seller has the forethought to look at the market value (pretend to be a buyer, ghastly I know) before putting something up for sale.  As I've said, in this particular case the seller is afforded the same protections and benefits, they just have to choose to use them.

 

Edit: Current real world economy works this exact way.  Buyers determine if something is valuable enough to move at all.  Seller offers a price based off of cost (time/resources/etc) to acquire.  Buyer determines if thing (service or product) is worth the price.  Seller adjusts price to jive with demand and costs.  Buyer purchases or doesnt.  Seller adjusts or doesnt. etc 

 

This is how things work.  I fail to see how sellers arent being protected because if they dont get what they see as proper compensation, then they dont sell and supply goes down, which drives up demand, which drives up prices.

Edited July 15, 2015 by Malikon

[Phatose]

Does the buyer need any forethought?

 

 

Whatever your intentions are, this system is flawed, and protects one side more then the other.   Buyers browse and choose, while sellers actually compete.

 

Whatever the intent, it's a setup that will distort the market in favor of the buyer, and that is not acceptable.

Edited July 15, 2015 by Phatose

[Malikon]

Yes, they have to know what they need or can use.  Traditional role is that buyers provide the demand, and sellers provide the supply.  That is the very basis of trade.

 

To be honest, buyers compete with each other.  There will be very few extremely low sellers, and those sellers will get shafted by not being properly compensated for their time or effort.  Buyers have to look, fight, and claw to get those "deals".  Look at all the folks fighting in Walmart during Black Friday sales to get the things they want cheaply.

 

There is competition on both sides, and your idea of a silent auction removes any effort required by the seller and puts everyone back in the same boat (albeit with better methods of connection between buyers/sellers) where we are now with no one having any idea what anything is worth.  Thus providing sellers the very methodology to get lazy while forcing the buyers to screw themselves over.

 

Edit:  The only real compromise here would be a hybrid of the two ways.  Allow the seller to choose at the time of posting what method they want to use and allowing the buyer the option of which way to acquire the item.  Or possibly have a your silent auction with a buyout based off the starting price point.  Who knows :>

Edited July 15, 2015 by Malikon

[Phatose]

You're missing a major point of trade.  Buyers supply the demand *and* compete with each other driving up prices for scarce resources.  That's vital to the economy functioning efficiently and properly, as those who value an item more are willing to pay more, and thus get the item.

 

Similar pressure in an opposite direction works on the sellers.  Those willing to give up the most for an item get it, and those willing to provide the item for the least sell it.  Basic economics - competition on BOTH sides.

 

 

And no, they won't fight tooth and claw to get a deal.  Not under the suggested methodology.  Walking into a completely automated store and pressing "buy" is not competition.  There is no method for them to compete, no method for them to make an offer to buy. 

 

The methodology here provides buyers the very lazy methodology that you're against sellers having in the silent auction.

[Malikon]

Not especially.  Those folks who grossly undercut another seller hose themselves quite well by being undercompensated.  A buyer has to actually find one of those few, which means those that want to do that will have to camp these kiosks or whatever, because there will not be an excess of underpriced things.  Some to many of those folks doing that will be businessmen/women, as in they're buyers now to become sellers in the future. 

 

Hence actual consumers will have to compete not only against each other, but against sellers acquiring inventory via undercutters.  And items of low price will QUICKLY disappear off the market, which drives up prices because only more expensive items will be listed.  They will have to be very persistant and have good timing to acquire things cheaply, no differently than now with the scrolling IRC chat. 

 

There is very little lazy methodology here for buyers as if they want lower prices they will have to work for them.

[Rakosta_Kai]

I'd rather just have a cephalon retainer and have them interact with an AH directly with trade via ducats... All nice and anonymous to othe rplayers and obvious as heck to DE.

 

Then I would like to see an exchange rate for Ducats to Plat and vice versa.

 

 

Why ducats versus plat for an AH trade?

Because AH's have a trend of attracting more RMT groups than the current trading setup will.

[Buzkyl]

Trade in warframe is in dire need of some form of an overhaul to make it more easier to both purchase goods and sell goods

 

 

The current trade chat is  this:

 

 

To be frank it's an uncoordinated mess.

 

-Walls of Text drown out potential buyers and sellers

-It being tied to chat UI forces you to essentially sit down and read the text go buy, hoping your offer doesn't get drowned out buy the incoming walls of text. Because of the chat restriction your offer better be taken relatively quickly as you have alot of waiting to do.

-Buyers and sellers are flooded with PMs that they have to manually close

 

While i am glad the current trade promotes one on one trade and a more personal style of dealing, it doesn't excuse it for being very inefficient to use.

 

 

Whether an auction house or not, Warframe trading is far from fine. Even if an auction house is implemented do you seriously believe things will plummet to bottom dollar prices? The sheer force of RNG alone will ensure rare items are priced accordingly, people are greatly underestimating the greed of sellers.

 

I however would atleast wish that items we put up we can have also put up a list of supplementary items aside from plat that we could take in return.

[Ninja-Kid]

Whether an auction house or not, Warframe trading is far from fine. Even if an auction house is implemented do you seriously believe things will plummet to bottom dollar prices? The sheer force of RNG alone will ensure rare items are priced accordingly, people are greatly underestimating the greed of sellers.

And that's the rub. AH, Marketplace or any sort of offline/automatic trading will NEVER be implemented because, understand this, ITEMS ARE NOT RARE.

The rarest prime part has a drop rate of ~5%. By any other game that is the drop rate for UNCOMMONS. Place it in a perfectly competitive market and it will be priced as an uncommon, like 5 plat or less.

DE will never allow prices to drop like that. If you force them to implement offline trading, then they will adjust drop rates to make key primes parts RARE, like 0.1% rare.

Moreover, items are homogenous and durable. There is absolutely no benefit to owning more than 1 part. Selling it at ANY price is more profitable than holding it. If 100 sellers are competing for 1 buyer, then the only one that would make a sale is the seller pricing it at 1plat.

And yes, the ratio of buyers to sellers is HORRIBLY lopsided in favor of buyers. Everyone who plays the game is a seller, but only those who buy plat are buyers. It is only the artificial shortage created by the online trading requirement (a merket inefficiency) that keeps prices where they are now.

Again, trading inefficiency is a FEATURE people. One that keeps FTPers and DE happy. The only people that are harmed are greedy buyers.

[Lickity-Split]

I honestly don't care what the Price is, hell they can even put a lower limit cap on Items (In conjunction with the Ducat Prices or something)

 

I just want a better interface than IRC Chat... This isnt 1990 anymore.

 

Its not difficult to sell/buy things because the prices are wrong... Its difficult to sell/buy things because by the time you have written out your "WTS or WTB" there are another 20 messages that pop up under yours pushing yours off the first page hence making it go unnoticed.

 

What we have isnt a buyers or sellers market, its a messy clutter of people shouting random things that make you eventually walk out the door without buying anything.

If we don't buy anything then what is the point of buying Platinum in the first place ? Boosters & Profile Icons apparently.

[LightstealKnight]

At first I really loved this idea, until I realized how cluttered the relays would become, and how Tenno would fight over prime selling real-estate (location location location). 
I'd rather just get an auction house mechanic that integrates into a relay-room.

Tenno would have to gift items to the AH with sale conditions, and go back to the AH (or through the inbox system) collect their item/cash.

It is a dirty tactic, but many MMO's take a sinkhole platinum cut/percentage on AH sales.  This ensures that the developing team makes real money on each AH purchase/sale.

As it is, there is a platinum saturation in the Trade community.  This saturation will only serve to drive up prices.

[Coryphaus]

Ah yes, a seller thinking hes should hold buyers hostage to get what he wants out of an item.  Sorry man, this is already a buyer's market and you wont get what you want unless someone is willing to pay it.  Also, please stop even attempting to justify yourself by namedropping DE like they're somehow the victim if buyers realize that they're in control of the market and not the ripoff artists.

 

Please stop the charades. We all know the "buyer's market" camp wants to force prices down so that buyers can buy bulk mods and prime parts for 1 plat, and sellers can spend hours "grinding" in order to also sell parts for 1 plat.

Cheapskate buyers are the ripoff artists because their attempts at price suppression will destroy the game itself. They take the value out of the platinum but won't give anything back to it.

[Coryphaus]

If, for example, you didn't outright 'buy' an item in this setup, but instead made an offer - which didn't fire off for 12 hours or some time, and which was publicly listed so other would-be buyers could offer more then you do and take the item themselves - then we'd be back on something like fair ground.

 

Take a guess why this suggestion is sheepishly ignored by the useless eaters buyers who want to buy everything for 1 platinum.

[(XBOX)SlyTYRANT]

Ah yes, more attempts from "buyers" to push prices down by encouraging grind, selling "efficiency", and a buyer's market so they can buy Ash Prime for 12 plat instead of paying DE money to develop the game.

No matter what system buyers will always try to get beat price and sellers try to get most possible.

How would this or any other trade system be different ?