So, New Rhino Skin... Confusing?

[MXXVI]

There seems to be a bug with the ability that the Iron skin animation vanishes after 1 sec of it's use, and I can just reuse it right after, so that bug needs to be looked at, also it would be nice if we got a indicator on how much damage it can absorb before it falls. I can't fully say whether it's good or not because of this bug is around. 

 

 

Bingo! Thank you. I've been hoping someone else had this problem.

[Tick410]

Sure it can. Have you never played D&D? Not much worse than "This guy is doing all the work while I sit around and be useless". That would make Rhino OP.

I won't comment on whether or not it actually was, as I have yet to play Rhino.

When I played as Rhino I had to get close to enemies to melee them with Rhino Skin. While others used projectiles and AOE's killing enemies before i even got a chance to hit them. So that excuse doesn't fly.

[Reaver_X]

the damage cap is dumb :(

[Fabreze]

800 is abysmal.. HORRIBLE! I can't even withstand damage from 2 lvl 40 enemies much less tank for the team, what the f*** is this?

[Grandarex]

I think the shiny-effect vanishing bug happens only if you're not the party leader. 

[Valmir_Draft_Stallion]

800 is abysmal.. HORRIBLE! I can't even withstand damage from 2 lvl 40 enemies much less tank for the team, what the f*** is this?

 

 

+1. Just give us the original Iron Skin back with auto aggro. It provides so much relief for say reviving a downed teammate or CC. The 800 dmg cap is just too little. perhaps nerf the duration instead of the amount? 

[Worira]

+1. Just give us the original Iron Skin back with auto aggro. It provides so much relief for say reviving a downed teammate or CC. The 800 dmg cap is just too little. perhaps nerf the duration instead of the amount? 

 

So you're now about the 50th or so poster to independently come up with the idea to either reduce the duration or increase the cost. And yet DE still just doesn't get it.

[Ganpot]

Yeah... after trying the new Iron Skin, it's actually worse than the percentage reduction.  Why?  Because at least that was consistent.  This new ability feels like pure god-mode at low levels (if you boost the ability early or go back to farm), because even bosses usually won't break it within its time limit.  But on higher levels, it's utterly useless because it is destroyed in a couple of seconds.  And since Rhino's other abilities still haven't been buffed to make them useful, Rhino is still laughably bad at endgame. 

 

Although, there is an ironic twist with this patch: Frost's Snowglobe ability (as well as Freeze, apparently) is currently bugged.  So now Rhino and Frost are finally on a level playing field again.  They can both be useless together. 

[Satwo]

i doubt anyone would be complaining about the damage cap if trinity was reworked.

[Ganpot]

i doubt anyone would be complaining about the damage cap if trinity was reworked.

 

I would be.  Trinity is supposed to be a support / healer.  Rhino is supposed to be a tank.  In fact, in strict MMO parlance he's supposed to be the only main tank.  Frost is supposed to be the off-tank, and provide crowd control to secondary targets. 

 

I'm not saying that a traditional MMO group set-up should be needed for end-game content in warframe, because that would quickly become boring and make most classes almost useless.  But Rhino needs to do something well, and even having complete invulnerability for over a minute isn't as useful during the current endgame (farming defense missions) as Frost's Snowglobe (well, before it became bugged.  You know what I mean). 

[drewbicus]

Have to disagree. If there is no point to tanking in higher levels then there is no point to having slow, ponderous, tanky warframes. If there's supposed to be a Rhino, and it is supposed to be tanky, and it is slow as molasses, and its bread-and-butter power is its defense, then that defense should be as useful at any stage of the game as any other frame's bread-and-butter power.

 

 

I suggest making the absorb work off the DR% provided by the previous version of IS.
For example with rank 3 IS, a 100 damage attack will be reduced to 20 damage before being absorbed. This way IS duration will decrease as enemy damage increases. As in higher levels getting hit less is better than tanking, this should slowly encourage the Rhino user to learn to dodge as their safety net slowly loses effectiveness as they go into higher levels.

[-Kittens-]

Have to disagree. If there is no point to tanking in higher levels then there is no point to having slow, ponderous, tanky warframes. If there's supposed to be a Rhino, and it is supposed to be tanky, and it is slow as molasses, and its bread-and-butter power is its defense, then that defense should be as useful at any stage of the game as any other frame's bread-and-butter power.

 

Pretty much this. The rescindant complaint would be "in early leveling, Rhino is still too powerful and sloppy gameplay can be justified"... well, the rather simple solution to that is make the rhino rarer and more expensive. It's really that simple.

 

I can't tell you how many time that I've seen finesse/spam tankers absolutely own literal tankers in gameplay design theaters, and here besides the lone caveat of ME3P's Geth Juggernaut was the one place where the actual defense borne character was the best as his designated role.

 

Then double mega nerf, and once again the "mage tank" and "leech tank" far and away outstrip the de facto designated tank in yet another game.

 

Sigh.

 

Essentially now, this character is literally useless against +20L enemies, as the "shield power" draws fire that his maxed ability literally cannot withstand in any way shape or form, and the commensurate buff is supposed to be slightly increased speed.

 

Does this character serve any point with this particular build?

 

Ability one is a copy of a starter char ability (slashdash) that is... mediocre at best until absolutely maxed, and mainly used for speedfarming conveyance and nothing else after midgame.

 

Ability two, the supposedly signature ability of the vehicle to begin with, now draws fire that will kill the character at mid game or later and does not even provide ANY kind of protection worth speaking of literally halfway through enemy tree progression.

 

Ability three and four are essentially copies of other frames' abilities with a little mix and match thrown in, except now clutching with four and then using 2 to cover the use after is pretty much no longer viable if your enemy is of sufficiently high level or of commander or boss status.

 

The entire point of having this character in the game has been removed. That may sound harsh, but the simple fact is there are a plethora of alternatives that now fill the Rhino's role better, and with properly scaled abilities to match, and we haven't even tried to cover high level solo play. (and we can't because the outcome is going to be rather obvious against L20 or better enemies, esp in long defense games)

 

IS is now useful only for clutching when retreating too far from standard soft cover.

 

Perhaps there's some kind of inherent bias against large crunchy characters being able to play on a level field with active ability spamming "finesse" characters, because it seems to be inevitable that this kind of nerfing happens to berserk/immunity characters/vehicles.

 

Big guys need love too.

 

The simple and CLEAN solution is to make the duration beween activation longer and more considered, and make the frame itself rarer, and reduce the speed back to normal levels, so that the tank is in fact, an actual tank, and not a late game liability.

Edited May 24, 2013 by -Kittens-

[Lumdalumlum]

New IS is just adding additional 800 sheild and make u immune to down n stun... Thats all.. 

[Qynchou]

I think it absorbs too little damage and the damage cap should be buffed a little big.

 

Need an indicator how much "health" iron skin has left.

 

If my iron skin has 10 absorption left and an ancient hits me with a KD attack, it removes my skin and knocks me down. Annoying due to the fact that I cant see how much health I got left.

[EvanTheNewbie]

I actually quite enjoy this change, actually. The iron skin change made me rethink the way I would play him. Instead of activating it and running up to god knows what and hemorrhaging damage like usual, I use it as a back up to get my shields up in dire situations. The aggro part of the ability Makes me a walking loki dolls, which I absolutely enjoy. My only gripe is that popping it and trying to pick up your partner will not guaranty that you come out unscathed.

Edited May 24, 2013 by EvanTheNewbie

[Psicomax]

in iron skin i would add a 3 second invulnerability time for the aggro burst of dmg and after that the damage cap

[Phoenix86]

I actually quite enjoy this change, actually. The iron skin change made me rethink the way I would play him. Instead of activating it and running up to god knows what and hemorrhaging damage like usual, I use it as a back up to get my shields up in dire situations. The aggro part of the ability Makes me a walking loki dolls, which I absolutely enjoy. My only gripe is that popping it and trying to pick up your partner will not guaranty that you come out unscathed.

 

So basically you enjoy being a 'fleeing/coward/trolling tank' ... nothing wrong with it, i'll probably do too, it's the most efficient way to use it

 

but ppl and devs should stop call Rhino "a tank" he is not anymore.

[-Kittens-]

Hit and run and hiding behind soft cover post l20 is definitely not tank territory, nor any kind of meta-tank territory.

 

I am curious as to what kind of role he's now intended to play, and how that role is supposed to be unique.

 

Right now he's a very subpar excalibur/saryn hybrid.

Edited May 25, 2013 by -Kittens-

[Rowr]

To be honest the new Iron skin Is pure S#&$ on higher levels and high defense missions, the second you pop and taunt everything the next second you expload, they eat through the 800 shield and my 800 base shield + 500 hp in less then two second. Couldn't they just bring back the old Iron skin with 100% reduction, add a taunt but reduce the time to araound 6-7 seconds insted of 14-15.

[S.W.O.R.D.]

Said it many times, and do it again. Rhino needs his original IS, that's all. All problems are solved, slow and hard frame.

 

IMO, peoples post, who never played Rhino on hight lvl content are just.... bull***t. Even with invulnerability Rhino dies there, one mistake and you're dead.

[S.W.O.R.D.]

No need for taunt or any other changes, just good old 15 sec of invul.

[Spellcasterz]

He is right though,comments of people that never leave the lvl ~20 range are what got IS nerfed in the first place.

The best defense I heard for that was "whats wrong with balancing the game for mid-range content?"

Well maybe beacuse it doesnt work if you enjoy anything beyond  a walk in the park?

 

As it stands IS is even more useless than it was prior as 800 dmg is nothing.

 

I stand by my suspicion that DE wants to make Rhino a CC-caster instead of a tank,a highly unfortunate development that...well lets just say once Frost is fixed I will abandon my Rhino.

[Dracknar]

I finally sat down today to try out the new Iron Skin.. and boy am I disappointed in what they did to Rhino.

This is so much worse than even the DR approach.

Running into the high level Mobs and the damn Iron Skin is gone before I can even charge a swing of my Scindo!

I then try and run like hell and get out of the middle of the massive aggro fest I've just invited to the party.

Needless to say I bit the dust and used a resurrection to get up and finish the mission.. using the time when I got up to just run like hell.

 

This is absolute S#&$e.. it really is. I went back to playing Saryn, but with the weapons I normally run with Rhino, ,and it was so much more enjoyable.

 

Such a shame as I really enjoyed the Rhino .. but I find I can't play him how I want (as a tanky heavy hitting beast).  I have to run away from fights that if I was on my other frames I'd use their abilities to their best effect to survive and win.

 

Iron Skin as it is now is a joke.

[bakaxy]

I said that the damage cap is ridiculously low before they implemented it...and, oh wonder, the ability is worthless.

 

Just revert everything and give back the old one...

Edited May 25, 2013 by bakaxy