cary2010haha1 Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 (edited) #1 25 energy , 25*2 damage http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/633104450694995800/5495C055DDD18BB1EECFAF3391906FF722936D9F/ yes, it auto tracks enemy, but the damage is too low. have no other feature, no CC, no tracking marks on map energy effective is 2 damage/energy #2 35 energy 5 second duration after the cast animation too much restrict to cast it, you need to stay on ground, have a long cast animation, anyone hear the cast sound will just easily run away. anyone moves beside pure movement action will force the stealth ends earlier, so you can't climb very high or use the melee to help you chase or escape. #3 15 energy, short range with long cast-finish animation. you slide to your target is faster than waste energy on it. #4 100 energy 150 damage, with a knockdown. http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/633104450694996999/6512B771691D35895805DFF4FFB96C6DE45FFC31/ again, the damage is too low, and the CC is not really a CC, it doesn't stun your enemy on ground like oberon's ulta. anyone with hand-spin mod will just get up before you can regain control of your ash. and don't forget many frame have 150 shield, it means ash #4 hit them they will run and you regain control them just gone, 1.5 damage pre energy. even worst than the #1 I think no damage propose power should have lower energy effect than 2 damage pre energy or it can be ignore at the moment. Think about how many damage you can deal with one ammo pack even you miss 75% of the ammo you gain, and compare to one 25 energy orb. You will know how ASh sucks now Edited July 19, 2015 by cary2010haha1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-dicht.ThanksFrost- Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 I think ash is okay. maybe a +5 damage boos to shuriken would be nice. But other than that ash is in a place where all warframes should be. It's a class that forces people to cast at the right time rather than casting as soon as you see someone. His invis is fine the way it is, something like invis needs strict negatives Thats what i got, the rest i do not understand #我不明白 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cary2010haha1 Posted July 18, 2015 Author Share Posted July 18, 2015 (edited) I think ash is okay. maybe a +5 damage boos to shuriken would be nice. But other than that ash is in a place where all warframes should be. It's a class that forces people to cast at the right time rather than casting as soon as you see someone. His invis is fine the way it is, something like invis needs strict negatives 40 damage is still too low, check frost, 80 damage pre shot with freeze effect, and auto track also. #2 is useless, actually you can't do anything within that 5 second other than reload, and the the cast animation make you become a fix target . In my eye every thing is just numbers. And ASH's powers are all lower than average at the moment. Edited July 18, 2015 by cary2010haha1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uzpian Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 I feel Ash's 1st a bit underwhelming compared to some of the other frame's 1st. Does it cause bleed proc on hit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cary2010haha1 Posted July 18, 2015 Author Share Posted July 18, 2015 I feel Ash's 1st a bit underwhelming compared to some of the other frame's 1st. Does it cause bleed proc on hit? nope, actually the energy effective on ASH is the worst compare to all other frames Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geninrising Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 Meh buffs and nerfs in PVP must be handled in a far stricter manner than anything in PvE as the balance is far more delicate. With that said I have the following as feedback for Ash in PvP. #1. The seeking mechanism of the Shurikens is a major bonus the skill has and therefore it's damage must be less than some other #1s. #2. The delay time on smoke bomb I feel should be instant rather than like a 1 second cast animation. It was always sheer ignorance that there was the huge delay after the button press anyway, what about that huge delay and overall slowness screams "Ninja". #4. As far as blade Storm is concerned I do think the delay before players can control Ash should definitely be looked at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-dicht.ThanksFrost- Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 (edited) 40 damage is still too low, check frost, 80 damage pre shot with freeze effect, and auto track also. #2 is useless, actually you can't do anything within that 5 second other than reload, and the the cast animation make you become a fix target . In my eye every thing is just numbers. And ASH's powers are all lower than average at the moment. So what, that means this post should be about Nerfing Frost's 1, not ash's 1. Edited July 18, 2015 by Eureka.seveN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cary2010haha1 Posted July 18, 2015 Author Share Posted July 18, 2015 (edited) So what, that means this post should be about Nerfing Frost's 1, not ash's 1. So if a weapon empty the whole clip but can't kill anyone, will anyone choice to use that gun? ASH is that "weapon" in this case. all is number only no matter weapon or power, also frost 1 is not even that powerful to let other player start to call a nerf. In all post you just want to nerf the power&melee down to earth, you better not to play WF's PVP because WF is always frame&Power&melee&gun maxed fairly, and at the moment the guns already got the upper hand in stat of DE's record. So gun may keep getting a nerf like the past few patches Edited July 18, 2015 by cary2010haha1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-dicht.ThanksFrost- Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 In all post you just want to nerf the power&melee down to earth, you better not to play WF's PVP because WF is always frame&Power&melee&gun maxed fairly, and at the moment the guns already got the upper hand in stat of DE's record. Powers should not be a main means of killing someone considering how much easier it is to hit a target with them. Frost's 1 is extremely powerful, as it can hamper a players mobility, something that is very important in warframe if you have not noticed yet. Admittedly before i was completely against powers and melee being a part of the pvp. But at the time you started "contributing" I understood the intentions of the developpers. I been advocating for a LOOK or a REVISIT to the powers and melee. I have never said in the past few weeks that powers should be completely nerfed. I advocate for powers to compliment the ga... why do i even bother Lets look at these stats of yours, because clearly you are in love with them, you love them so much that because they exist you think that this is solid proof of your point. Without even considering the outliers nor flaws in the datamining. But wait, i dont even need to say anything, because danfu was nice enough to do it already. Most of the kills with boltor prime/mk1 braton/braton prime is noob on noob action. All the top 3 weapons have low rank requirement with Boltor Prime being the highest at rank 2 (which is stupid considering Boltor Prime being one of the best weapons in the game) and high dps (noobs don't move around much). Since noobs are probably around 75% of conclave players and experienced players are 25%, it's bound to be at the top. Its the same reason why Slash Dash was the most cast first ability(the sheer number of noobs playing excal and slash dashing, most of the time missing) It also helped that Slash Dash was the best 1 skill at all times, especially near the time of Excalibur's rework (Radial Javelin was 3rd best ult skill behind Overload and Avalanche). -The reason why Strun Wraith is here is because this chart was probably created before it's nerf, and it was released in an event recently, making it available to the 75% of noobs that don't have it. - Weapons like Daikyu are used mainly by the 25% of experienced players, which is why it's so low, but still on the list (Same with MK1 Paris, except noobs may get lucky with it because of it's faster firerate). - Melee is also usually only used effectively by mid/high experienced users (noobs tend to just keep hitting air while eating lead) , which is why there are almost no melee weapons except Skana (because of the sheer number of noobs) Kogake (because it's easy to kill noobs with it) and Dex Dakra (Anniversary event made it easily available and it's easy to kill slow people with it). Boar Prime is there because its one of the main weapons experienced players who don't like single shot weapons use (that, Boltor Prime and Braton Prime, which noobs use as well leading those two weapons to be in the top 3) . - - As I said before, the only reason Excalibur and Slash Dash are the top is because so many people use him as he is the face of Warframe and the main starter frame. Shock is obviously second because Volt is also a starter frame (plus Volt Prime was on Prime Access at that time), followed by Rhino Prime (do you see the trend of popular Warframes with low requirements at the top?) Mag/Prime isn't there because Pull is almost useless now, and she is deadly indirectly. - In the end what im saying is a lot of people say melee and abilities are overpowered because it's the main threat experienced players face (for example, Kogake is always hard to get away from, for both experienced players and noobs), and when a noob goes against mid/high experienced players and gets destroyed by melee/ability spam, they say it's overpowered because they are used to being killed by primary weapons by other noobs (and sometimes experienced players) I think you should read this, long and hard. Perhaps you might get something out of it. The reason why autos are so popular is because the amount of above average and skilled players are very low, while the amount of newer players is very high. The first and most common sense choice to use is the AUTO, after all the auto rifles are good in PvE and it is the standard weapons for most shooter games. So obviously, autos are going to be the most popular choice. All because the exploitive means of killing a player is not the TOP item on a statistic does not mean that we should ignore it. Some people don't know about the exploits, some people refuse to use them. There are so many different variables that led to this conclusion, you cant just look at it for 5 seconds and say "In all post I just about melee not bad because stats are so say and stats correct" because you refuse to consider the variables, you have a skewed perspective on the game itself. It's clear that you advocate that the melee weapons should not be looked at because you are probably a user yourself. And really who can blame you, auto aim with martial magnetisim, the little amount of effort required, it would suck if DE took it away. I am objective, I do not promote changes to favor myself. My intentions are to make a warframe PvP a long lasting, enjoyable and fair experience for all melee users and gun users alike. At this current moment the melee is overpowering the weapons and I believe that measure need to be taken in order to balance it. Alongside with powers fo course. Also the "you should not play WF" comment. First of all, your rude. Secondly the 1.0 players have been here much longer than you, why should we leave? We're not going anywhere, and I think I cant speak for the community here by saying that we will stay until PvP is the fair,fun and competitive experience that it deserves to be. I am just going to stop here, chances are you are just going to call me some 1.0 scumbag that just wants powers and melee to burn to the ground. Because im Evil and I just want to crush melee users because I am an narcissist A****** with a superiority complex because of my 1.0 elitism. I cant respond to this seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hueminator Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 (edited) His bleed should proc, so you can delay opponent shield regeneration. Imo those skills with DoT effect should have their total damage equal or higher than simple damage skills (ember and ash #1) Anyone else feel his tear gas augment is counter-productive? 4m range that "blind" opponent but coincidentally that 4m range is also martial magnetism range, hence you still die with that long animation when they just spam E on you. Other issue I have with ash is teleport and bladestorm require aim and sometimes your cursor is right on them but hitting #3 or #4 it doesn't work. Then, you die. I pretty much use Ash P for his speed and toughness, while spamming #1 just to deny opponent energy. Edited July 19, 2015 by Hueminator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubbertubtub01 Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 I think Ash's powers being relatively weak balances his armour, shield and health. Shuriken could do with a buff though, it can't even 1 shot a rhino after I've shot him with the daikyu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cary2010haha1 Posted July 18, 2015 Author Share Posted July 18, 2015 (edited) -null- I am not rude, 1.0 is a fail and DE totally removed it, it lose balance and drift away from WF's base idea. WF is not GUN > speed > frame+melee+power. DEV's idea is frame=power=guns=melees PS: I really hope you have played longer than me, because I play PVP in WF before they publish. http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/633104240487500721/551A714F8253421B162740F80802575CEE325703/ Edited July 18, 2015 by cary2010haha1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-dicht.ThanksFrost- Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 I am not rude, 1.0 is a fail and DE totally removed it, it lose balance and drift away from WF's base idea. WF is not GUN > speed > frame+melee+power. DEV's idea is frame=power=guns=melees PS: I really hope you have played longer than me, because I play PVP in WF before they publish. http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/633104240487500721/551A714F8253421B162740F80802575CEE325703/ DE removed 1.0 because it was unpopular, to some people the gametype itself was a success. So yes denouncing something that other people play and then asking them to leave is rude. Who cares if it went away form the base game, when halo 3 introduced forge and custom games do you think they expected gamemodes like trash compactor and fat kid to come to light? "WF is not *blah*, devs want _____" Who gives YOU the right to preach what the game is supposed to be. Sticking to a formula and transfering it to other game modes ruins games "Egoraptor's sequelitis explains this" He expresses that games need to changed based on the area, perspective, etc... I feel that this can also be applied to pve and PvP. "I played more than you, look at the screenies of the first PvP version." Now I will purposely be a douchebag The entitlement is real here, but since were acting like this, check my profile pic. You can see the nice shiny founder logo. So yes I have been playing PvP since the start and I have been playing warframe before that. Actually let me be more entitled, I have been playing shooters since quake, ut , etc. So yes when I say something (although its not always right, and I'll pardon myslef for it) its based on the experiences that I have earned over the past 16 years. I know what makes shooters succeed and fail. I know what makes balance, I know what works and what does not. Stop decrediting my statement because you played the PvP gamemode since u9. Bruh I played that and got an extra 13-14 years to back it up. I started lan games with my dad when I was fkn 4-6 years old. "I hope u played longer than me" lmfao get serious u make me laugh. Regardless of that because someone constructs a better opinion other than "buff dis pls" does not mean that they played less than you. *walks out door" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cary2010haha1 Posted July 18, 2015 Author Share Posted July 18, 2015 (edited) DE removed 1.0 because it was unpopular, to some people the gametype itself was a success. So yes denouncing something that other people play and then asking them to leave is rude. Who cares if it went away form the base game, when halo 3 introduced forge and custom games do you think they expected gamemodes like trash compactor and fat kid to come to light? ---null-- Now I will purposely be a douchebag Sorry even your founder rank :P anyway, keep speak on WF PVP okay? your quake experience keep it at the quake. we speaking WF, should we keep saying I play CS1.6 , my BF4 rank is 175, and how many bababa I have done? :P And you sure can't proof your have done the "glitch to join PVP" in WF. And 1.0 is a total fail, not because unpopular, if DE think its work, they can just put the reputation system in like 2.0, people will join for grind no matter how broken it is. But DE know it's un-balance able due to PVE mods and stat. DE give it many chances, the no-node PVP, the dojo PVP, the PVP pre1.0, the PVP 1.0 power nerf *X times, DS PVP. And DE finially understand it should be removed. And 2.0 comes Edited July 18, 2015 by cary2010haha1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elele Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 I bet DE'll release a Teshin augment mod to fix Ash. Also wait for when they introduce status effect back into conclave. -- Bleed effect that can only be stopped by grabbing a health orb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-dicht.ThanksFrost- Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 (edited) Sorry even your founder rank :P anyway, keep speak on WF PVP okay? your quake experience keep it at the quake. You act entitled, I act entitled. Anyway, keep speak on WF PvP okay? Your PvE experience keep it at PvE. And you sure can't proof your have done the "glitch to join PVP" in WF. Yes I have. I have been playing since the leaked pvp. I changed my PC a year ago, so I don't have any of my pictures. You can ask my clan warlord -Nyrix- we used to play it often. And 2.0 comes Oh here it is, because 2.0 is so perfect. I have never been so bored in a game mode in a while. I play with my friend and we get bored after 10 matches. Theres no challenge on our end because everyone melee spams or power spams, and even when we die, we do not even get upset anyone. Theres no desire to get better because we know that all we have to do is equip a furax with martial magnetisim, grab some energy and hit the E key as hard as possible. None of that takes skill and it's not fun, it's not fun to mash, E I don't care what kind of player you are, I don't care where you come from I think most players can agree that running to the middle of the map Mashing E and hoping to win is not fun and does not generate a consistent MP experience. Because that's literally what this game has become. This is literally halo 3 vs halo 4 \ Edited July 18, 2015 by Eureka.seveN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thalahssalyst Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 (edited) Oh here it is, because 2.0 is so perfect. I have never been so bored in a game mode in a while. Ho men, do you really remember how hard was to find a match, or limit your options to friends and how hard was to find a match before? You cant compare the fun to bored on this pvp compared to the gun dominant system before. No one is saying that 2.0 its perfect, if you see all the topics, and people who are against some changes, its because most of the suggestion comes to melee (you still dont answer me on what is melee Spamm) reduction damage (it was nerfed, nerfed, out spin damage bonus, removed headshot multiplers, nerfed again), and power usage. Theres no challenge on our end because everyone melee spams or power spams, and even when we die, we do not even get upset anyone. Theres no desire to get better because we know that all we have to do is equip a furax with martial magnetisim, grab some energy and hit the E key as hard as possible. Really no chanllenge? What is melee spamm? "Power Spamms" can be countered, if you let the player grab the energy all the match, you can use the energy to counter them too, i see why you are bored on this. So, if you equip a Furax, without MM you can still win the match? Or even with MM, you still can win the match, press E and got all the kills, doesnt matter if there are good players on pvp? You dont press E to move? Spamm coptering/directional melee spin to win/to move? You dont do it? None of that takes skill and it's not fun, it's not fun to mash, E I don't care what kind of player you are, I don't care where you come from I think most players can agree that running to the middle of the map Mashing E and hoping to win is not fun and does not generate a consistent MP experience. Because that's literally what this game has become. So, nothing that have "melee" on his words, or gameplay its squilled? you know who is using MM and who no? I can tell you for my own experience, no one knows who use MM, I enter in a match, with only furax, without MM (i dont have mods from syndicate) and i got called MM noob... etc etc... You can go in the middle press E and win, like go on middle stand still, press LMB aiming, and kill a player who is in constant moving... you really cant do that with a melee... But other than that ash is in a place where all warframes should be O really? Ash cant do something with their powers, really big limitation on that. You are the only one who compare warframe with other games (i dont see why not) but, you are trying to argument that the most awesome thing amazing ever created for developers in the game and the most skilled thing for humanity its and need to be, just aim... You are trying to point others shooters with warframe, because you have experience, amazing, but you are not the only one who have the enought experience on shooter games to say that... I come from alot of shooters games, where the only thing that you have to do its throw a grenade, or shoot, a little knife usage (knife op), i cant pretend that others players acept my experience, because they dont care, and i dont have to point my experience on other games, that you are against, who choose diferent game modes, because you dont like them... i think? Okay, DE removes MM, and you still are going to come here, and complain, Glaive dont need MM to be powerfull, and you still created a topic asking for a tweak on that (because it dont need skill to use) LOL... so i dont really think that MM its the problem... Warframe have amazing potencial on his gameplay, is not only centred on guns, because melee op, or powers broken, thats why they have balanced and tweaked them... Aspects from different types of games makes warframe different... Ash, actually its under others on power force and aspects... Edited July 18, 2015 by Grimlock- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Noctus Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 ash abilities are usefull all of them but its situational and balanced instead of OP and broken. just his 3rd ability needs more range its rather ment for get fast to a far away target that camps somewhere. ( especially if u are a melee player ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockscl Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 (edited) #1 hits twice, and i think it can break 100 shields in one cast, probably impact damage? Edited July 18, 2015 by rockscl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thalahssalyst Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 I bet DE'll release a Teshin augment mod to fix Ash. Also wait for when they introduce status effect back into conclave. -- Bleed effect that can only be stopped by grabbing a health orb. Or when elemental mods are coming it was supposed to be on 16.5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cary2010haha1 Posted July 18, 2015 Author Share Posted July 18, 2015 ash abilities are usefull all of them but its situational and balanced instead of OP and broken. just his 3rd ability needs more range its rather ment for get fast to a far away target that camps somewhere. ( especially if u are a melee player ). useful ?.? #1 mean to be pure damage dealing power but it's damage is lose to most CC&damage maxed power #4 is a CC&damage maxed power but can't hold anyone more than 0.2 second. and the energy/damage effective is super low. As I said, don't be confused by their "name", in WF, gun&frame is the same, they fill resources to deal damage or anything it design to be. So in Ash's case is a weapon that empty whole clip and backup ammo still can't kill/hold his target, in real life we call it fail product. #1 hits twice, and i think it can break 100 shields in one cast, probably impact damage? nope, only do 35 on my screen shot problem is the UI still bug, it shows 500 damage-,- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockscl Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 nope, only do 35 on my screen shot problem is the UI still bug, it shows 500 damage-,- its 2 proyectiles, if in your SS theres 1 hit its because the other missed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyraius Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 PS: I really hope you have played longer than me, because I play PVP in WF before they publish. http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/633104240487500721/551A714F8253421B162740F80802575CEE325703/ You think that proves anything? lol playing longer doesn't matter, it matters on if you were a good sport and if you are having fun. Now I just think you are against PVP 1.0 because you got rolfstomped in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elele Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 its 2 proyectiles, if in your SS theres 1 hit its because the other missed Its stupid auto tracking causes it to miss more than it hits, in my experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elele Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 You think that proves anything? lol playing longer doesn't matter, it matters on if you were a good sport and if you are having fun. Now I just think you are against PVP 1.0 because you got rolfstomped in there. I'm pretty sure people don't say "chess is a bad game because I get owned by all dem pros". A bad game is a bad game, no matter if you're good at it or not. That being said, inb4 thread lock after this E-P contest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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