Void Key Drop Rate Needs A Serious Buff

[chuuburg]

Background:

Over 2 days, I've played about 10-12 hours of combined Defense/Raid/Spy/Boss missions, over 15-20 defense missions at least till wave 5-15.

I have only gotten ONE key from a defense.

Prior to this I have done my research and it is stated that void keys drop from almost everywhere and anywhere.

 

1) Drop Rate

Now currently these keys act as the current form of "End Game" content, so we have to play 12 hours to get one key.

 

I have done about 15-20 void missions (Thanks to others who used Plats to buy them) to date and the drop rate is just disappointing.

In addition, the reward rates of void missions are clearly unbalanced with 50% of it being reaper handle and latron prime stock.

 

This is what I currently have, majority is crap/common rewards apart from the 2 forma.

5 Reaper handle

3 Latron Prime Stock

4 Latron Prime BP

2 Frost Brime Chassis BP

2 Forma BP

3 Reaper Prime BP

 

So lets take that example into example.

12 hour = 1 key

If a FREE TO PLAY solo player plays the game 4 hours a day, that would mean he may only get a key once every 3 days, fast forwarding a month he would only get 10 keys a month.

He would need to play the game for 2 months to only get the equivalent of what I have, which is a real joke.

 

Quit forcing and pushing the game into P2W scenario, the game is getting more and more unplayable as each update comes.

I was fine with reactors and catalyst and then the Glaive and Vauban, now you are just pushing it more and more.

People are starting to lose interest.

 

 

2) Conflict

When they are this rare, the moment someone says "Who wants to do void" you get 20 people spamming clan chats.

Constant begging for slots and all its conflict and the bad stuff, not good for the game.

 

Then it is the "Clique" issue, im sure these people exist everywhere in every game.

A group that always does the void amongst themselves and not sharing  them with others.

Trust me, its not fun grinding out the defense map over and over again over 2 hours getting nothing, while looking at the clan chat of these of people going "Yea we got this and that how awesome are we?".

 

2 days into U8 and I am already seeing people displeased not getting an invite to a Void mission despite asking over and over again.

I must confess, I am one of those who are getting invited more than the others in the clan, but at the same time guilty as I cannot contribute any.

 

 

3) Is this Update 8 or Update 6 ?

Apparently majority of the people get their keys from defense missions.

Because this definitely feels like Update 6, where the only map we did was Xini defense.

Looks like you are forcing us back to our old days.

 

 

Summary

I expect to get 1 or 2 LOW LEVEL keys every hour the least playing on ANY map, Boss maps should ALWAYS have better drop rates for reward/hour.

Edited May 25, 2013 by chuuburg

[Tainted_Fox]

if key drops were 1 to 2 hours, it would make sense that void missions drops would be rare (or vice versa)

however since both key drops and parts are rare. chances on getting what you want is too high. and frustrating 
 

[Nykxx]

The Vault as well as the Dojo are supposed to be part of their "endgame". People complained that there is nothing to do after you cleared all the missions and updateted your mods so they introduce a system that gives you goals for month/years. Online games need such things because once you are "done" you will stop playing even if it is the best game in the world. You are not supposed to visit the orokin ruins every day and farm the hell out of them. because if that would be the case the game is at the same point in a few weeks and the community screams for more updates.

 

Update 8 gives you long term goals to play for because besides alerts there where no missions that gave you anything once you had enough credits and mods.

 

Imagine you found your 2 keys per hour. You would have your prime weapons and frost prime already... what would you do then? What goals would you have in mind, when you start the game? 

[Nubsawce]

The Vault as well as the Dojo are supposed to be part of their "endgame". People complained that there is nothing to do after you cleared all the missions and updateted your mods so they introduce a system that gives you goals for month/years. Online games need such things because once you are "done" you will stop playing even if it is the best game in the world. You are not supposed to visit the orokin ruins every day and farm the hell out of them. because if that would be the case the game is at the same point in a few weeks and the community screams for more updates.

 

Update 8 gives you long term goals to play for because besides alerts there where no missions that gave you anything once you had enough credits and mods.

 

Imagine you found your 2 keys per hour. You would have your prime weapons and frost prime already... what would you do then? What goals would you have in mind, when you start the game? 

I'm still not understanding, though, how anyone who isn't a hardcore player is ever going to see anything prime, ever. Should they really be barred from that? There are better ways to make something take longer than simply making it scarce.

 

What good is content that can barely, if ever, be experienced by most players?

 

Consider this: WoW's vanilla raids way back in the day were too difficult for most people, or they otherwise didn't have the time. Only I believe 1% of players took part in this content. You might cry "it's too easy now!!" but there are 99% other people who invested in the game that have a right to experience content. I don't agree with their response to just nerf everything, but they moved back in the right direction with hard modes with bonus rewards.

 

The goal of what I wrote there is to say this: Don't limit casuals. Give bonuses to the hardcore. Make there be hard-mode equivalent keys that do a lot more in the way of drops, and make the regular ones more available. Everyone gets to see the Void, and nobody feels cheated (at least as far as I can see).

[Mattyrogue]

Consider this: WoW's vanilla raids way back in the day were too difficult for most people, or they otherwise didn't have the time. Only I believe 1% of players took part in this content. You might cry "it's too easy now!!" but there are 99% other people who invested in the game that have a right to experience content. I don't agree with their response to just nerf everything, but they moved back in the right direction with hard modes with bonus rewards.

I'd like to query where you get your statistics, as during my time back then (2005-2009), there were quite a few prominent guilds that participated in the 'End Game Content', Including myself as a simple Priest (Leonides, Server: Stormrage) with a Guild by the name Enigma, I believe. Comparatively speaking from both the point of one of the designated back-up healers, content wasn't hard, it was coordinated, back in those days, we weren't rated on gear score or any of these other silly vetting systems, it was simply 'Survive until the bad guys health hits zero, and keep as many of your buds alive as you could', kind of like what Trinity does now (just a little bit more involved).

So let me repeat that, Content isn't hard, it's coordinated. If Void Keys were any more common than they already are (Which, with a few good friends and a few minutes of grinding Io or any other Defense Mission, are never more than an hour or two's work of effort) then everyone and their mother would be strutting around with Reaper Primes, Latron Primes and their Frosty Primes.

This content, while not necessarily imbalanced, is a slight upgrade from existing content, that's all it is, so why do you insist on acquiring it if it's just that... Furthermore, the RNG Gods do not favour everyone, and the idea is to give these coordinated players a chance to reap some interesting and possibly unique rewards, as well as a content and time sink, not give every guy and their mother free handouts.

Edited May 25, 2013 by Mattyrogue

[chuuburg]

The Vault as well as the Dojo are supposed to be part of their "endgame". People complained that there is nothing to do after you cleared all the missions and updateted your mods so they introduce a system that gives you goals for month/years. Online games need such things because once you are "done" you will stop playing even if it is the best game in the world. You are not supposed to visit the orokin ruins every day and farm the hell out of them. because if that would be the case the game is at the same point in a few weeks and the community screams for more updates.

 

Update 8 gives you long term goals to play for because besides alerts there where no missions that gave you anything once you had enough credits and mods.

 

Imagine you found your 2 keys per hour. You would have your prime weapons and frost prime already... what would you do then? What goals would you have in mind, when you start the game? 

 

I dont think unlocking new weapons and frames could be categorized as "end game" content, after all thats what the Void maps provide.

They can make them hard to obtain but currently its overdoing it, in its current form it would take a "self key obtain-er" casual player 3-4 months to even complete one item from the Void BPs.

Im pretty sure there are a handful of clan-less players who play on their own or in pub games.

This is just absurd, no one in the right mind would be ok to farm a weapon/warframe for a couple of months.

 

The Dojo stuff are fancy and neat, but its not exactly end game content.

Cant imagine games like Guild Wars and WOW having end game content such as "BUILD YOUR HOUSE!"

Edited May 25, 2013 by chuuburg

[K_Shiro]

Wow chose PVP. I don't care about pvp. I like building the house way more - though it would be nice if the building process would progress on it's own. Slowly, but steadily - you could boost the speed with resources. Right now it's nearly impossible for clans with few members to build even one room. Hell, 130k nano spores? Hell, I have been playing for a while but I doubt I got more than 20k until now.

[chuuburg]

Day 3, super bored of playing Update 6, I mean Update 8, or whatever it is.

Only 1 Key in 3 days, people in clan complaining they have yet to receive even one key from defense till to date.

 

There is a better way to comment on the current state of the void keys.

Imagine you are only able to do Boss map once every 3 days, you will never be able to enjoy or get any Warframe BP.

That is how ridiculously stupid the void maps are now.

 

Heck I would rather have Update 7 soft reset all over again than this.

[K_Shiro]

I got four keys out of defmaps (saturn and venus) from a dozen or so runs. All of them were tier 1, and all were given as wave5 rewards. I dunno about higher level void keys.

 

Right now my main problem is that it's annoying that I have 8 Latron Prime stocks and 6 Reaper Handle, and my Frost prime parts are accumulating too, but the boogiemen, the Latron Reciever, Reaper Blade and Frost Prime Systems eluded me so far. I know they drop, I have a friend who is building a Frost Prime already and one that has Latron Prime (not the same guy). They drop by small chance but hey, they are supposedly top stuff so alright.

But what should I do with the useless stuff, the extra parts? Wrote my ideas about it on the topic https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/9470-suggestionmaterial-recovery

 

But keys do drop in a bad way. I don't mean more should drop but they should be earned in a more... consistent or at least less random way. You could add more alerts and make some give forma and keys as rewards (at least keys) - this way making the whole thing a bit less hopeless.

 

When you do your 24th voidrun (getting these void runs by harassing people on the Region chat - sorry about that guys by the way) and you get nothing useful, it's pretty disheartening. In fact since voidruns are a huge gamble right now, No way I would buy void keys with real money. Why? Most likely I will get some credits and that's about it. I have more than a million already and I have no idea what to buy with it. Speaking of spare credits, you might consider adding the feature of actually buying resources with credits (and maybe even selling them for credits). This would help with the trading problem a bit too but mostly with the dojo building.

 

Again, it's not my call - I don't have enough money to get into the Design Council - I earn 250€ a month as a system administrator.

Edited May 29, 2013 by K_Shiro

[SweetSlaanesh]

Meh. Keys aren't as rare as Forma, which has an exceedingly low reward rate. Only extremely large clans are ever going to see functional Dojos. Even if a small clan chose to spend the 100 dollars to buy the platinum, they'll still likely be grinding for months to make freaking HALLWAYS.

Combine that with the deviousness of (what appears to be) making keys drop at a lower rate when multiple people start a level, preventing groups from getting multiple keys in one go, is pretty nasty. I had a high opinion of DE before U8. Now, not so much. I didn't realize they were making a Chinese MMO.

 

I definitely won't be spending any more money on the game until they address this.

[.PiTHON.]

He would need to play the game for 2 months to only get the equivalent of what I have, which is a real joke.

 

 

And before void missions there was no reason, other than to save time, to spend ANY money on the game unless you wanted to hold onto more than 2 (or was it 3?) warframes and however many weapons they give you.

 

And after void missions there is still no reason, other than to save time, to spend ANY money on the game.

 

Personally I have Frost Prime and Latron Prime building as we speak and I didn't spend any money on keys. Yes other people spent money on them, but one person can be nice and take his friends. Slightly weak argument here, but there are options - edit: and since I responded so quickly without paying enough attention to your post - you yourself got 14-19 runs without spending any money! end edit. Most of my runs were with people who bought keys (it's why I already have the gear) - but at least 6-8 runs (out of 50) were with people asking on global chat if anyone wanted to go, and another 2-3 from my clan. And to improve my slightly weak argument: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/51889-need-some-mates-for-void-runs/

 

Also divide your numbers by at least 2, and at most 4. Most players are catching on and once they get a key, they ONLY run with other people who have keys so everyone gets 4 runs for the price of 1 key. Or the original group of 4 (if you were in a group of 4..) simply runs 4 times with their shiny new keys.

 

How is it a joke that someone has to spend 4 to 8 times as much time as you to get the same gear you have without spending a dime?

Edited May 29, 2013 by .PiTHON.

[Quetzhal]

I disagree. Void keys do not need a drop rate at all - they need a reliable method of acquisition.

The Void is, simply put, amazing. The problem is that the system that they set up is terrible, and in the long run it actually doesn't extend the replayability or lifetime of the content by that much (and increases player frustration instead, both in terms of acquiring Void keys and their rewards)- there is little incentive to repeat Void content once you've acquired all the Void gear, as many people already have. This is a problem with making the drop rates too good (arguably). Conversely, making them bad makes runs feel like a waste of time, like how it was before the recent Reaper Handle/Latron Prime Receiver fix.

The ideal system would extend replayability as much as possible while disguising itself as something other than RNG. Also, it should have the benefit of making people continue to play, want to keep buying Void keys, and lasting until the next big content update. People should have access to the Void - in terms of challenge and mechanics, it's great and is bound to keep people playing. The current system encourages speedruns, however, which takes away from a players' immersion. At some point, they'll want to get through this as quickly as possible.

My suggested solution:

-Make Void keys reliably acquirable from Wave 25 of Defense. This solves the issue of PUG groups only going up to wave 10-15 and not proceeding to where the challenge lies. It also allows for a reliable method of acquisition that doesn't necessarily lengthen the time it takes to acquire one key. Alternatively, reward T1, T2 and T3 keys in sets of 15 waves. T1 for Wave 15, T2 for Wave 30, T3 for Wave 45. Of course, these numbers should be adjusted to whatever is necessary. Why Defense? It's currently the greatest challenge in normal gameplay.

-Revamp the Void reward system so that it's a token system. T1 should award a range of tokens, T2 a higher range of tokens, and T3 can give you the most tokens. This allows rewards to be tiered according to difficulty, and the range being governed by RNG still creates a feeling of anticipation and reward, especially when you get the upper end of the range. Plus, it puts a cap on the total number of runs necessary while still making it vary to a certain extent, which avoids player burnout.

-Reward additional tokens for exploration, breaking containers, killing enemies, destroying traps, etcetera. This puts a focus on playing in the map and exploring, rather than speeding to the end - though those who want to or have to do so can still do that if they wish.

-The token system should allow you to purchase the parts of whatever item you want. This allows a tangible feeling of progression as to what you're getting, instead of feeling like it's purely RNG.

-The token system should have utility items for purchase, such as Forma, ammo boxes that automatically replenish your reserves, or other desirable things. It may also include 'fun' items, like an item similar to Vauban's Vortex that can be thrown into the Clan Dojo for a temporary antigrav effect. This creates a token sink, so people will continue running Void missions. This also solves the issue of Forma being extremely difficult for those who do not have Platinum to acquire, in spite of the fact that a lot of Forma is required for a variety of things.

-Have the RNG system occasionally and rarely reward cosmetic skins in addition to the tokens. These do not affect gameplay, but give the same feeling of accomplishment and happiness when one acquires an item they desire. It also artificially further extends the replayability of Void missions, while circumventing the frustration a player would feel after acquiring a part they don't need or already have. It also encourages players who really want the skins to buy Void keys.

I actually detailed this extensively in another topic, but this is the first time I actually put it together with the other idea of making Void keys reliably acquirable.

[MagnumKnight]

I disagree. Void keys do not need a drop rate at all - they need a reliable method of acquisition.

The Void is, simply put, amazing. The problem is that the system that they set up is terrible, and in the long run it actually doesn't extend the replayability or lifetime of the content by that much (and increases player frustration instead, both in terms of acquiring Void keys and their rewards)- there is little incentive to repeat Void content once you've acquired all the Void gear, as many people already have. This is a problem with making the drop rates too good (arguably). Conversely, making them bad makes runs feel like a waste of time, like how it was before the recent Reaper Handle/Latron Prime Receiver fix.

The ideal system would extend replayability as much as possible while disguising itself as something other than RNG. Also, it should have the benefit of making people continue to play, want to keep buying Void keys, and lasting until the next big content update. People should have access to the Void - in terms of challenge and mechanics, it's great and is bound to keep people playing. The current system encourages speedruns, however, which takes away from a players' immersion. At some point, they'll want to get through this as quickly as possible.

My suggested solution:

-Make Void keys reliably acquirable from Wave 25 of Defense. This solves the issue of PUG groups only going up to wave 10-15 and not proceeding to where the challenge lies. It also allows for a reliable method of acquisition that doesn't necessarily lengthen the time it takes to acquire one key. Alternatively, reward T1, T2 and T3 keys in sets of 15 waves. T1 for Wave 15, T2 for Wave 30, T3 for Wave 45. Of course, these numbers should be adjusted to whatever is necessary. Why Defense? It's currently the greatest challenge in normal gameplay.

-Revamp the Void reward system so that it's a token system. T1 should award a range of tokens, T2 a higher range of tokens, and T3 can give you the most tokens. This allows rewards to be tiered according to difficulty, and the range being governed by RNG still creates a feeling of anticipation and reward, especially when you get the upper end of the range. Plus, it puts a cap on the total number of runs necessary while still making it vary to a certain extent, which avoids player burnout.

-Reward additional tokens for exploration, breaking containers, killing enemies, destroying traps, etcetera. This puts a focus on playing in the map and exploring, rather than speeding to the end - though those who want to or have to do so can still do that if they wish.

-The token system should allow you to purchase the parts of whatever item you want. This allows a tangible feeling of progression as to what you're getting, instead of feeling like it's purely RNG.

-The token system should have utility items for purchase, such as Forma, ammo boxes that automatically replenish your reserves, or other desirable things. It may also include 'fun' items, like an item similar to Vauban's Vortex that can be thrown into the Clan Dojo for a temporary antigrav effect. This creates a token sink, so people will continue running Void missions. This also solves the issue of Forma being extremely difficult for those who do not have Platinum to acquire, in spite of the fact that a lot of Forma is required for a variety of things.

-Have the RNG system occasionally and rarely reward cosmetic skins in addition to the tokens. These do not affect gameplay, but give the same feeling of accomplishment and happiness when one acquires an item they desire. It also artificially further extends the replayability of Void missions, while circumventing the frustration a player would feel after acquiring a part they don't need or already have. It also encourages players who really want the skins to buy Void keys.

I actually detailed this extensively in another topic, but this is the first time I actually put it together with the other idea of making Void keys reliably acquirable.

send this... send all of this to DE.... right now.. .you beautiful beautiful person.

[Keetsune]

Bump on this.

[Story4]

Why not just make tier 1 keys available very easily, but have them have a very low chance to drop any special items (5%), instead you will be able to get mods and such.

Tier 2 keys will have a higher chance to get good items (20%) and tier 3 an even higher chance (50%). Of course they will be much more rare than the tier 1 keys, but players should at least have a chance to see the void sooner, even if they don't get much, like special BP.

 

I wouldn't even mind for Tier 3 keys to only be available for plat if the other can be more easily acquired.

[HurlockHolmes]

I disagree. Void keys do not need a drop rate at all - they need a reliable method of acquisition.

The Void is, simply put, amazing. The problem is that the system that they set up is terrible, and in the long run it actually doesn't extend the replayability or lifetime of the content by that much (and increases player frustration instead, both in terms of acquiring Void keys and their rewards)- there is little incentive to repeat Void content once you've acquired all the Void gear, as many people already have. This is a problem with making the drop rates too good (arguably). Conversely, making them bad makes runs feel like a waste of time, like how it was before the recent Reaper Handle/Latron Prime Receiver fix.

The ideal system would extend replayability as much as possible while disguising itself as something other than RNG. Also, it should have the benefit of making people continue to play, want to keep buying Void keys, and lasting until the next big content update. People should have access to the Void - in terms of challenge and mechanics, it's great and is bound to keep people playing. The current system encourages speedruns, however, which takes away from a players' immersion. At some point, they'll want to get through this as quickly as possible.

My suggested solution:

-Make Void keys reliably acquirable from Wave 25 of Defense. This solves the issue of PUG groups only going up to wave 10-15 and not proceeding to where the challenge lies. It also allows for a reliable method of acquisition that doesn't necessarily lengthen the time it takes to acquire one key. Alternatively, reward T1, T2 and T3 keys in sets of 15 waves. T1 for Wave 15, T2 for Wave 30, T3 for Wave 45. Of course, these numbers should be adjusted to whatever is necessary. Why Defense? It's currently the greatest challenge in normal gameplay.

-Revamp the Void reward system so that it's a token system. T1 should award a range of tokens, T2 a higher range of tokens, and T3 can give you the most tokens. This allows rewards to be tiered according to difficulty, and the range being governed by RNG still creates a feeling of anticipation and reward, especially when you get the upper end of the range. Plus, it puts a cap on the total number of runs necessary while still making it vary to a certain extent, which avoids player burnout.

-Reward additional tokens for exploration, breaking containers, killing enemies, destroying traps, etcetera. This puts a focus on playing in the map and exploring, rather than speeding to the end - though those who want to or have to do so can still do that if they wish.

-The token system should allow you to purchase the parts of whatever item you want. This allows a tangible feeling of progression as to what you're getting, instead of feeling like it's purely RNG.

-The token system should have utility items for purchase, such as Forma, ammo boxes that automatically replenish your reserves, or other desirable things. It may also include 'fun' items, like an item similar to Vauban's Vortex that can be thrown into the Clan Dojo for a temporary antigrav effect. This creates a token sink, so people will continue running Void missions. This also solves the issue of Forma being extremely difficult for those who do not have Platinum to acquire, in spite of the fact that a lot of Forma is required for a variety of things.

-Have the RNG system occasionally and rarely reward cosmetic skins in addition to the tokens. These do not affect gameplay, but give the same feeling of accomplishment and happiness when one acquires an item they desire. It also artificially further extends the replayability of Void missions, while circumventing the frustration a player would feel after acquiring a part they don't need or already have. It also encourages players who really want the skins to buy Void keys.

I actually detailed this extensively in another topic, but this is the first time I actually put it together with the other idea of making Void keys reliably acquirable.

 

You need to start your own thread.

+1

 

Also OP, I have only found one key in about 30 hours worth the of defense/raid missions. A Tower II extermination void key as the wave 5 reward on Gaia.

[yarash2110]

Iv'e played like four games per day, 4 defense 4 spy 4 raid etc. and i got no key at all

[JamnikPucek]

I've been leveling a new melee weapon via infested raid missions, as well as releveling a forma'd gun. At least 30+ runs done on various Raid missions since the Update dropped, including 10+ since the last stint of hotfixes.

 

No key drops whatsoever. The only 1 key I got was from a daily lottery.

 

I do agree that the key drop seems horrendously low, especially for mob lvl 30+ missions. I do think that the chance for a void key drop should scale with mission difficulty, but at the moment it just seems pretty low overall.

 

I'd also suggest adding a chance for a void key drop to non ? alerts, it seems like even the Raid/Capture ones do not give you the bonus item you get for doing regular ones. Also scaled according to difficulty.

[Mediave]

So let me repeat that, Content isn't hard, it's coordinated. If Void Keys were any more common than they already are (Which, with a few good friends and a few minutes of grinding Io or any other Defense Mission, are never more than an hour or two's work of effort) then everyone and their mother would be strutting around with Reaper Primes, Latron Primes and their Frosty Primes.

 

I would like to strongly disagree with this.  I played hard all weekend with several friends.  We did defense, raid, assassinations, the works.  We didn't receive our first key until Monday, and still haven't gotten another since.  The drops are bad.

[Gaiters]

The Void is supposed to be the endgame, it's going to take a long time, if they wanted high drop rates they could just allow you to access the void without a key.

Edited May 30, 2013 by ZEDD

[Me.Greedy]

i think people just need more patience.

[Blackstrength]

i think people just need more patience.

 

 

That's what thought first, we will build our Dojo, slowly, but surely

 

I'm part of a small clan (about 10 people). we spend 3 days farming Defenses and dropped keys only once. Looking at how the forma drop chance is low in Void missions, it would take months just to build a duelling room and something like a year to get a Lab... This is not "patience" to me...

[Boomstick720]

I've said this before in another thread, and I'll kind of restate it here.

 

The key here is that you DE needs to design these keys in such a way that they encourage buying them over simply "playing" for them, but they also cannot just set them to be plat exclusives imo.  You need a balance where its either extremely difficult or time consuming (although it should be consistent) to acquire a key, because otherwise no one would bother buying them.

 

That being said I think that this guy...

 

I disagree. Void keys do not need a drop rate at all - they need a reliable method of acquisition.

The Void is, simply put, amazing. The problem is that the system that they set up is terrible, and in the long run it actually doesn't extend the replayability or lifetime of the content by that much (and increases player frustration instead, both in terms of acquiring Void keys and their rewards)- there is little incentive to repeat Void content once you've acquired all the Void gear, as many people already have. This is a problem with making the drop rates too good (arguably). Conversely, making them bad makes runs feel like a waste of time, like how it was before the recent Reaper Handle/Latron Prime Receiver fix.

The ideal system would extend replayability as much as possible while disguising itself as something other than RNG. Also, it should have the benefit of making people continue to play, want to keep buying Void keys, and lasting until the next big content update. People should have access to the Void - in terms of challenge and mechanics, it's great and is bound to keep people playing. The current system encourages speedruns, however, which takes away from a players' immersion. At some point, they'll want to get through this as quickly as possible.

My suggested solution:

-Make Void keys reliably acquirable from Wave 25 of Defense. This solves the issue of PUG groups only going up to wave 10-15 and not proceeding to where the challenge lies. It also allows for a reliable method of acquisition that doesn't necessarily lengthen the time it takes to acquire one key. Alternatively, reward T1, T2 and T3 keys in sets of 15 waves. T1 for Wave 15, T2 for Wave 30, T3 for Wave 45. Of course, these numbers should be adjusted to whatever is necessary. Why Defense? It's currently the greatest challenge in normal gameplay.

-Revamp the Void reward system so that it's a token system. T1 should award a range of tokens, T2 a higher range of tokens, and T3 can give you the most tokens. This allows rewards to be tiered according to difficulty, and the range being governed by RNG still creates a feeling of anticipation and reward, especially when you get the upper end of the range. Plus, it puts a cap on the total number of runs necessary while still making it vary to a certain extent, which avoids player burnout.

-Reward additional tokens for exploration, breaking containers, killing enemies, destroying traps, etcetera. This puts a focus on playing in the map and exploring, rather than speeding to the end - though those who want to or have to do so can still do that if they wish.

-The token system should allow you to purchase the parts of whatever item you want. This allows a tangible feeling of progression as to what you're getting, instead of feeling like it's purely RNG.

-The token system should have utility items for purchase, such as Forma, ammo boxes that automatically replenish your reserves, or other desirable things. It may also include 'fun' items, like an item similar to Vauban's Vortex that can be thrown into the Clan Dojo for a temporary antigrav effect. This creates a token sink, so people will continue running Void missions. This also solves the issue of Forma being extremely difficult for those who do not have Platinum to acquire, in spite of the fact that a lot of Forma is required for a variety of things.

-Have the RNG system occasionally and rarely reward cosmetic skins in addition to the tokens. These do not affect gameplay, but give the same feeling of accomplishment and happiness when one acquires an item they desire. It also artificially further extends the replayability of Void missions, while circumventing the frustration a player would feel after acquiring a part they don't need or already have. It also encourages players who really want the skins to buy Void keys.

I actually detailed this extensively in another topic, but this is the first time I actually put it together with the other idea of making Void keys reliably acquirable.

 

 

...I think has a good idea as well.  Getting keys should be consistent, but it sure as hell better not be easy.

[kaizoku222]

The Void is supposed to be the endgame, it's going to take a long time, if they wanted high drop rates they could just allow you to access the void without a key.

 

RNG isn't endgame. Stop supporting the concept by speaking like it's justified.

 

The largest problem with the game is there is no way to actually work towards any real goals, none what so ever. Every single bit of progress you can make on your character outside of mastery and mod point pool is behind at least 2 layers of RNG. You have ZERO control over how you progress and in the case of any item from the void there are *4* RNG barriers that we nearly know for a fact DE is manipulating to keep people from getting what they are working toward.

 

DE is selling out, they are setting the game up to be reliant on frustrating the player base enough to spend money to *avoid* the RNG they themselves have made. Any company that relies on inconveniencing and frustrating their player base to make money is a bad company and will certainly gain a poor reputation. They do not have to monetize like this, they know people don't like this business model, they get 100's of suggestions how to design around relying on RNG to monetize, and yet they are still walking down this awful path of money over game design. If they continue like this, the only people left here and in-game are going to be people who are complacent or who don't realized they're getting gamed by DE.

[iPrevenge]

I still haven't even seen ONE key.