The Flaws Of Finishers.

[(PSN)theelix]

Main complaint I've heard of: They take too long.

 

Why do I agree? During the animation, you can lose your combo counter. Now, that means there's either the problem that your combo counter is too short, which is very likely, or the animation takes too long. I'm gonna go with both and just suggest you cut the time by half, and double the duration of the combo counter.

 

On Finisher animations in general.

 

1. Finshers are very disorienting. Oh look, I'm standing in front of the enemy I just parrie- Why am I clipping through the wall no- where the hell am I now?

 

2. Finishers can not always be activated. Now, there are multiple definitions to this.

   2a. You can be touching the enemy and press the melee button (or context action, whatever it is for PC or weird controller scheme users) and you'll just awkwardly melee the target, even if they do have a finisher animation.

   2b. You can't activate finishers on all enemies, even though you should be able to.

 

Now, onto finisher activating in general, I.E Parrying, blinding, procs, etc.

 

1. Praising RNGesus seems to be unreliable. On combos with certain finishing activators, like Crimsons Dervish's Coiling Impale, you can hit the attack and just... not get the finisher to activate. And sometimes if you do you, refer to 2 on finishers in general.

 

2. Parrying. Not going to complain about blocking being damage reduction instead of damage negation, since finishers provide invulnerability during the animation, but Parrying an enemy is too unreliable.

   2a. It takes five energy and it's unaffected by channeling efficiency. This is absolutely ridiculous. Not only is it difficult to get it to reliably proc with the timed channeling, it also essentially punishes you for failing when it seems to be nearly random.

(I played Bloodborne just the other day too, for about an hour right after I played Warframe. I can get repostes much, much more frequently than I can even get a parry on Butchers or Powerfists, who have the most telegraphed melee attacks in the game. I was able to parry Gehrman, Blood-Starved Beasts, Shadows of Yahrnam, and other quick attacking enemies much, much more reliably with a single bullet that has projectile speed than pressing the channel button at the right time.)

   2b. The Parry mod only gives you an increased chance and is very punishing in terms of modding.

 

3. Planning on activating consistent finishers essentially limits your choice of weapon and frames, and since you guys seem to want to prevent stuff like that as was implied by your nerf of Covert Lethality and Exalted blade, I'd think you'd wanna fix this rather soon.

   3a. Wanna consistently get stealth attacks in non-endless missions? Take a Loki or Ash. They can become invisible for a much longer duration than a kubrow or Sentinel, can stay invisible during the attack and after, and are  generally faster than most other frames.

   3b. Wanna consistently get finishers in an endless mission? Ash, Banshee, Excalibur, or Valkyr better be your choices or else you're gonna have to play a game of dice rolling while all of your energy is drained.

   3c. Wanna try getting Parries against higher level enemies? Loki is your only choice unless you take a Halikar unless you want to be shot to death before your melee opponent can even swing.

   3d. Want your finishers to actually matter in higher level content? Better be using Excalibur, Banshee, or a dagger or you're in for a very bad time.

   3e. Wanna open enemies in a 20m radius for finishers for a bit, but don't have all of these wonderful frames that can do just so? Better find a Steel Meridian augment or weapon.

 

4. Some enemies don't even melee you at times. You can be standing there with your melee clipping through the face of an enemy that's SUPPOSED to elbow bash you, and they'll just... Not.

 

5. Likewise, some enemies are too tall to parry at all, like Bombards or Napalms which will completely ignore your block and hit you in the face or something, completely bypassing your ability to parry them.

 

6. Enemies who live. Instantly in the perfect position to shoot you in the face and elbow bash you, and you're probably out of energy now from having failed to successfully parry them a few times or having just cast an ability to open them to finishers. WHY? Finishers should at least knock them down, if not take their weapon and stun them for a bit after so they don't just keep killing you.

 

Some of the problems are shown in these two videos. Around 25~ minutes to watch both, build in the end of the second video.

Part one.

Part two.

Edited August 17, 2015 by (PS4)theelix

[MokutoBunshi]

I agree 100%, my only advice is to maybe make the separation between parry and finishers more clear.

Other than that +1. DE needs to fix this... among other things...

 

]\'[

[saintsspider]

YES +1

[Liminal]

Yes. I agree so hard I think I may pop a vein.

 

They are so unreliable ... it's quite aggravating.

[muzashi1963]

Yes +1

[Rynslet]

I haven't noticed most of this, I'll admit, but the problem I have with finishers is when you're being attacked by something, find a mob that isn't alerted, go to attack them, accidently trigger a finisher, and then by the time the animation is done, you're surrounded. This is most noticable with the infested, as they don't make much noise to alert their own.

[TwiceDead]

Just get rid of the Finisher mechanic and give a bonus to hitting enemies from behind, no fuss.

Warframe is way too chaotic for Finishers to have a place in it. 

[Tekka_Croe]

Honestly, I'd be happy if they could at least get ground finishers to engage with any kind of consistency.  As it is now, it's even odds whether I'll impale a downed enemy or just uselessly swing my weapon a meter above them.

[(PSN)theelix]

Just get rid of the Finisher mechanic and give a bonus to hitting enemies from behind, no fuss.

Warframe is way too chaotic for Finishers to have a place in it. 

They can't do that because of the Spy game mode, unless they remove it completely.

Because just the bonus from behind isn't going to be enough to stealth kill high level eximus enemies, which lead to alerts.

They'd also have to rebalance that mod they just finished nerfing.

 

Long story short, it'd be removing too much content from the game for DE to keep track of. They'd be better off just halving the animation of finishers.

[Rynslet]

Honestly, I'd be happy if they could at least get ground finishers to engage with any kind of consistency.  As it is now, it's even odds whether I'll impale a downed enemy or just uselessly swing my weapon a meter above them.

 

Or the damned crawlers.

[TwiceDead]

They can't do that because of the Spy game mode, unless they remove it completely.

Because just the bonus from behind isn't going to be enough to stealth kill high level eximus enemies, which lead to alerts.

They'd also have to rebalance that mod they just finished nerfing.

 

Long story short, it'd be removing too much content from the game for DE to keep track of. They'd be better off just halving the animation of finishers.

Take the finisher bonus from the current finishers and apply it when you hit enemies in the back without the stupid animation that does more harm than good.

Same damage, no animation. Done. 

[Sigmas71]

i think that stealth finisher animations have to be removed . This is not a game for that kind of thing. When i am trying to stealth around, triggering the animation locks me in place so my target's 5 other buddies have time to turn, see me and sound the alarm. If i can't chain stealth kills, how can the gameplay have a " stealth aspect " to it? There's 120 enemies in a simple exterminate mission, do i have to individually stalk and wait for enough of a window for every single one?

 

please remove the animation, i wan't to play at my own pace ._.

[Khalixxa]

What if parrying (channeled blocking) had a separate "parry strike" animation that was automatically triggered, rather than having to follow up.

[(PSN)theelix]

In the process of uploading two videos that chronicle some of the problems.

Be warned, these are U16 videos/there is still stamina and broken gravity.

[Hammahness808]

i think that stealth finisher animations have to be removed . This is not a game for that kind of thing. When i am trying to stealth around, triggering the animation locks me in place so my target's 5 other buddies have time to turn, see me and sound the alarm. If i can't chain stealth kills, how can the gameplay have a " stealth aspect " to it? There's 120 enemies in a simple exterminate mission, do i have to individually stalk and wait for enough of a window for every single one?

 

please remove the animation, i wan't to play at my own pace ._.

allllll my yessssssssssss