Forma - De's Target Audience Seem To Be Whales

[Thypari2013]

Let's have a look at Forma first

 

Forma -  20 plat.

Getting as reward login or from alerts.

Needed for every single Dojo part and for polarizing weapons.

 

 

Result

 

This means you can't farm it. There is no way to grind or farm Formas as they are completely RNG. You can only get the login reward once per day and you have no influence on the alerts.

It is not dropped or rewarded by spending time with the game.

 

Since Forma is RNG only, all parts of the Dojo which need Forma are RNG as well.

To build Dojo parts you can't farm or grind Forma. Your clan members need the luck to get the Forma with RNG.

And you need lots of it!

 

 

Whales

 

But you can buy it on the market for 20 plats.

For DE this U8 gave them so much money. Everywhere players are rushing Dojo parts with plat or buy Formas.

If DE considers this as success. This game will go downwards only from now on. The next updates will feature more content that is only accessible by RNG or spending money.

The only people who will continue playing in the long term are "whales". (People who spend a lot of money into a game).

 

If all other players stop playing whales only play with whales. But whales want to feel special. This is gone and they will leave the game as well.

 

To have a successful game your target audience should be the casual player who pays money sometimes. There are a lot more of them. And they draw new potential customers to the game. A game that is targeted towards whales is never successful.

 

 

What to do?

 

I have no idea what changes that fit into the game right now would make it a better place for casuals.

One idea might to make Forma droppable with a very low chance and offer a chance increase item in the shop for little plat (5 plat). It increases the chance to drop for xx days (3 days).

 

Now DE targets the whales with 20plat instant Forma and the casuals with 5plat higher drop chance for Forma.

Edited May 25, 2013 by Thypari2013

[Xoxile]

I think you fail to understand RNG. Because all the other materials needed for dojo stuff is subject to RNG as well.

[holdenagincourt]

They could at least mitigate the issue by making Forma only required for big projects like halls and labs.

Hallways, elevators and probably even the reactor should only require materials.

[Avenwing]

I think you fail to understand RNG. Because all the other materials needed for dojo stuff is subject to RNG as well.

Except you can reliably farm those materials unlike forma.

[Noponis]

you can get forma from the void

 friend of mine already got like 2 or 3 bp's for it in one day

[Avenwing]

you can get forma from the void

 friend of mine already got like 2 or 3 bp's for it in one day

And how many keys did he buy? The huge problem is that you first have to farm keys before you can farm the forma.

[vieuxchat]

And to get into the void you need keys.

That you can buy or... get as reward of mission.

So to get a forma you roll a dice to know if you get a key, then a dice to know if you get the forma.

Let's do some maths.

If you have 25% chances to get a void key and 25% chances to get a forma BP in the void then the %age to get a forma BP is 25% x 25 % so 0,25 x 0,25 = 0,0625 aka 6,25%. Which means in 100 runs for forma (in fact it would be 200 runs as you need to get first the void key) you would get about 6 forma BP.

 

And we all know that we're far from 25% of getting a void key and 25% of getting a forma BP.

[KvotheTheArcane1]

I think you fail to understand RNG. Because all the other materials needed for dojo stuff is subject to RNG as well.

Not the way forma is, you can easily farm nano spores (~170 per thing at xini) and the other mats, but forma is rare, either you can get one a day from void missions, one a day from login rewards (but it's a BP, so one a day can be built, not rushing) and an uncertain number from alerts (judging by potatoes, not that often is my guess, they'll pop up every once in awhile, but will still be rare.)

 

edit: The RNG for the other mats isn't really subject to RNG, as they have such a high chance to drop (from lootables and a decent chance from enemies) that it's not a problem, the problem is how long are you willing to farm those mats, compared to forma which is very very rare.

Edited May 25, 2013 by KvotheTheArcane1

[R3leaZ]

And how many keys did he buy? The huge problem is that you first have to farm keys before you can farm the forma.

This.

 

I havent found any Void Keys yet. It kinda makes it sad. Forma currently is way to difficult to obtain through normal F2P farming.

[DizzyNanner]

I think you fail to understand RNG. Because all the other materials needed for dojo stuff is subject to RNG as well.

This thread doesnt even argue against RNG

[Kamentari]

They could at least mitigate the issue by making Forma only required for big projects like halls and labs.

Hallways, elevators and probably even the reactor should only require materials.

This.

I hope the change that, at least we can dream sicne dojo's are in alpha

[Scherhardt]

RNG is just too broken to make items farmable to the point that you won't get frustrated farming. Hope it gets more attention by the next update.

[Mak_Gohae]

Finally

[FateZero]

At least forma is farmable to an extent. Farm void keys then farm the void for forma.
Orokin reactors and catalyst aren't farmable whatsoever. 

[Xoxile]

If forma was reliably farmable like nano spores then there would be no point in buying them from the market. Of course they will be rarer than the rare materials.

Edited May 25, 2013 by Xoxile

[vieuxchat]

At least forma is farmable to an extent. Farm void keys then farm the void for forma.

Orokin reactors and catalyst aren't farmable whatsoever. 

But potatoes are only a way to ease the difficulty. You don't cut yourself from a very very very interesting part of the game if you don't use them.

 And the dojo parts will grow in quantity.

[Belpharon]

Let's have a look at Forma first

 

Forma -  20 plat.

Getting as reward login or from alerts.

Needed for every single Dojo part and for polarizing weapons.

 

 

Result

 

This means you can't farm it. There is no way to grind or farm Formas as they are completely RNG. You can only get the login reward once per day and you have no influence on the alerts.

It is not dropped or rewarded by spending time with the game.

 

Since Forma is RNG only, all parts of the Dojo which need Forma are RNG as well.

To build Dojo parts you can't farm or grind Forma. Your clan members need the luck to get the Forma with RNG.

And you need lots of it!

 

 

Whales

 

But you can buy it on the market for 20 plats.

For DE this U8 gave them so much money. Everywhere players are rushing Dojo parts with plat or buy Formas.

If DE considers this as success. This game will go downwards only from now on. The next updates will feature more content that is only accessible by RNG or spending money.

The only people who will continue playing in the long term are "whales". (People who spend a lot of money into a game).

 

If all other players stop playing whales only play with whales. But whales want to feel special. This is gone and they will leave the game as well.

 

To have a successful game your target audience should be the casual player who pays money sometimes. There are a lot more of them. And they draw new potential customers to the game. A game that is targeted towards whales is never successful.

 

 

What to do?

 

I have no idea what changes that fit into the game right now would make it a better place for casuals.

One idea might to make Forma droppable with a very low chance and offer a chance increase item in the shop for little plat (5 plat). It increases the chance to drop for xx days (3 days).

 

Now DE targets the whales with 20plat instant Forma and the casuals with 5plat higher drop chance for Forma.

 

 

OP might not be explaining it right when he keeps refering to the RNG but he has a powerful point. 

 

This update definately changed the game from Free-to-Play to Pay-to-Play (not pay-to-win).  The drop rates on keys and  free access to Forma is just way too limited for aquiring it through just playing the game to be a viable option.  Instead you might as well say it is now required to buy keys to progress in the void and Forma to progress your dojo.

 

Also to head off this argument in advance, I am sorry but just because you can aquire 1 key after grinding defense missions for 6 hours or get Forma occassionally as a log in reward, doesn't mean buying these items are "Convience Only".  Let's face it, at that rarity, your pretty much forced to buy them.

[evilfluffy]

OP might not be explaining it right when he keeps refering to the RNG but he has a powerful point. 

 

This update definately changed the game from Free-to-Play to Pay-to-Play (not pay-to-win).  The drop rates on keys and  free access to Forma is just way too limited for aquiring it through just playing the game to be a viable option.  Instead you might as well say it is now required to buy keys to progress in the void and Forma to progress your dojo.

 

Also to head off this argument in advance, I am sorry but just because you can aquire 1 key after grinding defense missions for 6 hours or get Forma occassionally as a log in reward, doesn't mean buying these items are "Convience Only".  Let's face it, at that rarity, your pretty much forced to buy them.

 

Basically this

[Saxo]

Finally

 

THIS!

[Avenwing]

OP might not be explaining it right when he keeps refering to the RNG but he has a powerful point. 

 

This update definately changed the game from Free-to-Play to Pay-to-Play (not pay-to-win).  The drop rates on keys and  free access to Forma is just way too limited for aquiring it through just playing the game to be a viable option.  Instead you might as well say it is now required to buy keys to progress in the void and Forma to progress your dojo.

 

Also to head off this argument in advance, I am sorry but just because you can aquire 1 key after grinding defense missions for 6 hours or get Forma occassionally as a log in reward, doesn't mean buying these items are "Convience Only".  Let's face it, at that rarity, your pretty much forced to buy them.

Up-voted for justice.

[Kennpachii]

So basically everyone is saying they want an amazing game and they dont want DE to make any money out of it.  There is no part of the game you are cut off from as a f2p gamer, however it will take a lot longer if you dont want to pay anything.  This is fair.  DE needs to make money to make the game, so either pay a bit here and there, or be patient, quite whining, and play the game for free.

[Foreal]

This game is still a beta. In this same update they have seriously increased the drop rate of other mats in missions...like 10x. There is no reason to assume they will not increase the drop rate of void keys or release new content that gives more access to void keys.

[Avenwing]

So basically everyone is saying they want an amazing game and they dont want DE to make any money out of it.  There is no part of the game you are cut off from as a f2p gamer, however it will take a lot longer if you dont want to pay anything.  This is fair.  DE needs to make money to make the game, so either pay a bit here and there, or be patient, quite whining, and play the game for free.

I have defended DE on everything but this move. Requiring Forma in the amounts that are currently needed is beyond ridiculous considering how rare they are. Even a large clan could go months without completing the Grand Hall with the S#&$ty chances of getting forma doing it the free way.

[KvotheTheArcane1]

So basically everyone is saying they want an amazing game and they dont want DE to make any money out of it.  There is no part of the game you are cut off from as a f2p gamer, however it will take a lot longer if you dont want to pay anything.  This is fair.  DE needs to make money to make the game, so either pay a bit here and there, or be patient, quite whining, and play the game for free.

no, we want prices to be reasonable. to build a dojo, without farming for forma (which is RARE) you need to spend $80 to get ALL the forma you need. that's unreasonable, and if you don't you need to wait 75days, getting a bp built everyday, if you managed getting 75bps.

 

my point: Forma is required WAAAY too much, for both prestige of weapons AND clan buildings feels like a money grab.

[BETAOPTICS]

Another great point in original post. I think DE has gotten the message by now and are hardly trying to figure things out and make the patch true but if I were them, I'd send DE_Rebecca to inform about it or let someone make the post in her name if she is too busy at the moment.