Why I've Lost Trust In De

[Empiren]

The only thing I can agree on from what you've listed is the Hydroid nerf.

 

Ogris is still pretty strong, if the nerf you're referring to is the ammo pool. That hasn't affected my use of the weapon. Though I only ever brought it with me to mostly ODD which has changed quite a bit. Most people will opt out to run with a tonkor because it does more damage and doesn't do self damage.

 As for the Acrid, it's strong versus corpus units and that's where I leveled mine, that's its only niche role though. It was pretty OP before, in its current state it's not that great I'll agree on that. But perhaps it was not intended to be the end all of weapons. There are actual pistols that are extremely strong that haven't been nerfed which signifies to me they are intended to be that way (Brakk / Marelok (Vaykor) etc...)

 

I wasn't around when Ember was OP but she still wipes the star-chart with ease. Given how many changes were added to her kit, it's clear that DE is still figuring out on what to do with her. But it's also clear that no matter what it will be, she will never be a tank again.

 

Excal is in a good place right now more or less. Personally I would prefer a shorter range on EB waves, but most people are fine with it as is, thus I'll settle for what we have.

 

Mag is still strong and her greedy pull is great in survival camping missions. I used gmag for draco runs and other camp runs when it pulled for everyone. It was boring for me personally and I felt like it needed a change which it got.

 

At the end of the day, most changes that are conisdered "nerfs" by the community, I actually agree with. At least those that were implemented since I've started playing the game. The hydroid nerf, was put in mainly for business reasons I imagine. Why would anyone buy resources from the market when your pilfering hydroid will supply everything you ever wanted in great quantities? He was a great way to reduce the grind, but in its current state Warframe's business model relies on the grind too much to allow that.

 

I honestly don't care if the nerfs were "justified", as  I have or can easily make the next best thing or the next FoTM gun.

 

 

The point is that DE buffs things then nerfs them a month or two later. The actual progression in the game is utterly pointless because if anything is actually slightly better than the rest, DE is going to nerf that sucker to the lowest tier, if albeit gradually sometimes(Excalibur by 2016 is gonna be a husk I garauntee you).

 

 

Except for maybe the Soma, for some reason they love the soma.

[Empiren]

I like DE for their content and not too greasy system(platinum is clearly overpriced without discounts) they seem to never listen to feedback anymore

 

The problem is that DE doesn't listen to the community when the community disagrees with a proposed change.

 

DE does not differ from other companies in this regard.

 

At least Blizzard actually reads and comments in the threads made, if albeit rarely

[ArbitUHM]

As someone who's been playing the game for awhile.....

 

All DE does is make things good/viable, then nerf them a month later.

-Same with the Ogris

-Same with the Acrid

-Same with the Hek(who lets face it, is going to get another nerf)

-Same with Ember

-Same with Excal

-Same with Hydroid(sorta, he was still subpar to Nekros imo).

-(I really could go on by just looking at the changes to weapons/frames).

 

This is pretty typical of the whining this community does: Excal recent buffs make him way better than he was before, but bring him down a peg and OMG it's the nerf holocaust. EB's interaction with Covert Lethality was flipping ridiculous (see: Quiette Shy killing 20 level 95 Juggernauts with it). Syndicate mods are there to encourage use of under-utilized weapons, not to boost an already powerful ultimate even further.

 

Then we still have S#&$loads of OP stuff in this game, like Irradiated Disarm, Boltor Prime, Molecular Prime, brainless invisibility powers that are pretty much godmode because the AI can't deal with it, etc etc etc.

 

Basically DE gets no credit for putting powerful toys in the game and gets raked over the coals for every tiny nerf, no matter how well deserved.

[Empiren]

Basically DE gets no credit for putting powerful toys in the game and gets raked over the coals for every tiny nerf, no matter how well deserved.

 

No. DE creats FoTM(flavor of the month) content by raising something up to top tier, nerfing it to low tier, then making another item top tier.

 

 

Like I already stated before(I assume you just didn't read my next post), I don't care about the actual stats or differences or the viability of the weapon after the nerf since I can just use the next FoTM stuff.

 

What I care about is that DE can't keep any weapons in a high tier without randomly nerfing them.

(well, except for maybe soma/boltor)..

Edited August 21, 2015 by Empiren

[Tyrian3k]

As I said: DE needs to be quicker in balancing if they don't want to annoy their players. OP and UP weapons need to be brought back in line before they either become the go to weapon of half the community or eternally vanish within the ever-growing pile of mastery fodder.

[ArbitUHM]

No. DE creats FoTM(flavor of the month) content by raising something up to top tier, nerfing it to low tier, then making another item top tier.

 

 

Like I already stated before(I assume you just didn't read my next post), I don't care about the actual stats or differences or the viability of the weapon after the nerf since I can just use the next FoTM stuff.

 

What I care about is that DE can't keep any weapons in a high tier without randomly nerfing them.

(well, except for maybe soma/boltor)..

Your examples of being raised to high tier and then dropped to low tier include Hek, which is still top tier and just received a huge buff, a bunch of ancient weapons that haven't been touched in forever, Excal who did receive nerfs but still remains a very good frame (definitely not "low tier"), Ember (also ancient, also buffed recently), and Hydroid which again doesn't fall into any sort of "Buff then Nerf" cycle given Pilfering Swarm was released months ago.

 

And what new FotM did these items get replaced with? Equinox? Knux (lol)? How is DE gaming this to their advantage? You've demonstrated no nefarious pattern, only a normal balancing process. 

As I said: DE needs to be quicker in balancing if they don't want to annoy their players. OP and UP weapons need to be brought back in line before they either become the go to weapon of half the community or eternally vanish within the ever-growing pile of mastery fodder.

I can definitely agree with this. DE lets stuff go on long enough that it becomes taken for granted and then there's a huge S#&$storm when they finally address it e.g. T4 keys being dirt cheap.

[Empiren]

As I said: DE needs to be quicker in balancing if they don't want to annoy their players. OP and UP weapons need to be brought back in line before they either become the go to weapon of half the community or eternally vanish within the ever-growing pile of mastery fodder.

Thing to remember: A ton of the weapons(especially those with actual mechanics behind them)  are utterly useless because they provide the same damage or less than normal rifles like the soma but are a lot harder to use to actually get the damage out.

 

 

So what happens is that (thanks to DE's overproduction of content) you have a ton of mid/bottom tier weapons that right now don't even top the most basic of rifles, the soma/boltor or a shotgun.

[FelisImpurrator]

I like DE for their content and not too greasy system(platinum is clearly overpriced without discounts) they seem to never listen to feedback anymore

 

At least Blizzard actually reads and comments in the threads made, if albeit rarely

Ding. Someone who didn't read my post again.

 

How about you go back. Read the patch notes for U17.0 up to right now. Read the Feedback and Bug Report archives for that time. Compare them.

 

There were changes in U17 I saw threads requesting over a month ago. Hell, it read like a Christmas wishlist. There were walls of fixes in the next few patches that were reported a few days before. They don't get everything, but it is damned well not never. So pull off that tinfoil hat and check the actual facts for once.

 

The real problem here is DE not getting to balance things quickly enough. Or not being able to. And the community abusing things they thought would be fun - this IS why we can't have nice things.

As opposed to anyone with more than a goldfish's memory realizing they will go back on anything they say? That things they rave about being able to add for people's enjoyment one day are completely unintended bugs the next? I'd prefer the 'this is why we can't have nice things' approach to DE's current 'what are you talking about, this was never meant to be a thing'.

And on that note, this is a mistake, but it's an understandable mistake. Do you realize how many MORE people would whine and complain if they were called out directly by the devs for ruining something? Greedy Pull was nerfed because it was abused to hell and back for months. Same goes for a lot of these nerfs.

[AsMadAsItGets]

I can't believe how dramatic your title posting was, and your closing statement after having read the actual cause of your dismay with DE, absolutely incredible. You may want to consider that you choose to play Warframe because somewhere down the line it appealed to you, if the only thing that appealed to you enough to play was changed, then you probably didn't like this game enough to be this upset in the first place, but since that probably wasn't the case I suggest you simply get over it and find something else fun about the game.

 

You wrote your original post in such a way that despite it not making sense to me as a whole, at first glance I assumed the reason you'd lost trust in DE was because you were a victim of rape and manslaughter at the hands of one of their staff, had returned as ghost dad and learned how to type on a PC albeit very slowly and you were actually just frustrated with how long it was taking therefor being the LEAST dramatic hypothetical incident in which you should have been this upset.

Edited August 21, 2015 by KAWASAKl

[Empiren]

Your examples of being raised to high tier and then dropped to low tier include Hek, which is still top tier and just received a huge buff, a bunch of ancient weapons that haven't been touched in forever, Excal who did receive nerfs but still remains a very good frame (definitely not "low tier"), Ember (also ancient, also buffed recently), and Hydroid which again doesn't fall into any sort of "Buff then Nerf" cycle given Pilfering Swarm was released months ago.

 

And what new FotM did these items get replaced with? Equinox? Knux (lol)? How is DE gaming this to their advantage? You've demonstrated no nefarious pattern, only a normal balancing process. 

I can definitely agree with this. DE lets stuff go on long enough that it becomes taken for granted and then there's a huge S#&$storm when they finally address it e.g. T4 keys being dirt cheap.

 

Ok maybe you don't understand the concept of Flavor of the Month.

 

You see when you nerf the go-to weapon or buff one into that slot, it creates a situation where the community changes their weapon to the "Best in slot"

 

(of course, in warframe there are several items, not just the Gjallarhorn here).

--------------------------

 

 

Anyway, the point being is that DE will nerf or buff something directly in or from top tier  then change it the next month or next update.

 

 

Take a look at this last update. Shotguns.

>Were good

>Nerfed

>Mid tier at best

>Buffed

>Top tier

 

 

The thing with FoTM is that it's not one item getting buffed/nerfed over and over, it's something constantly being changed for top-tier because top-tier always gets nerfed.

 

 

Watch. Shotguns will get a nerf, then the community will revert to another weapon.

[Empiren]

The real problem here is DE not getting to balance things quickly enough. Or not being able to. And the community abusing things they thought would be fun - this IS why we can't have nice things.

And on that note, this is a mistake, but it's an understandable mistake. Do you realize how many MORE people would whine and complain if they were called out directly by the devs for ruining something? Greedy Pull was nerfed because it was abused to hell and back for months. Same goes for a lot of these nerfs.

 

Ah. Didn't realize you were blaming the community for the decisions and design of the developer.

 

Take for instance the Hydroid "exploit".

 

DE knew the drop chance. DE know how much it benefited because they put it in there.

 

To say they didn't expect this to be an alternate version of Nekros is just silly, that's the entire design of it in the first place.

 

 

But people "abused it" by simply implementing it in an efficient way. Right.

 

Same with CL or syndicate mods on Excal. The players are only using the content as DE designed it. 

(which ok, I get it was "OP" but still, blaming the players for the nerf is silly).

 

Really DE needs to stop promoting FoTM and think hard about damage values of everything at once and then start fresh.

Edited August 21, 2015 by Empiren

[RNG_Wizard]

Oh boy, another "Why did you nerf an unintended, broken synergy, and tweak x skill?" post. Let me start off by saying, if DE wants to add quality of life changes and revert poorly optimized synergies, I'm all for it.

 

Let's start off with the community response when DE stated that they were going to be removing the synergy between Exalted Blade and augments. This was not how they wanted things to work. This alone means that DE has all the reason to remove this synergy; they didn't intend for things to work the way they did, so they changed them to be how they wanted. The feature was overpowered and, from the brief time that EB worked with augments, all the Excaliburs I saw in pubs were using cleavers. All of them. They had increased damage, basically passive health regen for whoosh whooshing, and constant armor boosts. When something is so all-round versatile that it is the only thing used, there is a problem. So it was reverted to how it was before. As for the whole community feedback on that change, the reason you saw so much negative feedback regarding that change is because despite the majority of the community being on board, it was mostly the butthurt individuals that were against it that left feedback. Removing overpowered features is expected, it is a no-brainer. There was very little positive feedback because it was a bug fix, and the only people that cared about this change were those that had abused borderline game breaking synergies. For every person that was against the changes made to Exalted Blade, I guarantee you that there are at least 10 that are for the change. As for not trusting DE because they went ahead on a change that they announced that they were going to make, I don't know why you're upset. They said they were going to change something, then they changed it. I don't know why you consider it distrustful for DE to go through with a change that they announced that they were going to make. Hell, I would consider DE dishonest if they did anything else, if they went back on their decision. Exalted Blade's interaction with syndicate mods was not an interesting thing, it was a poorly thought out concept that was quickly removed because it was simply too powerful. Excalibur is still one of the best frames for rushing through certain missions, he doesn't need built in damage boosts, armor boosts, constant AoE stunning and room clearing, and the ability to refill his energy and health constantly. This is a welcome nerf, because Excalibur didn't need the buff to begin with.

Okay, Pilfering Swarm. I for one barely consider this a nerf considering how large of a buff it got at the same time. Pilfering swarm had the extra drops from power strength removed, but it is no longer required to let the dips**t AI slowly try to whittle away at your foes. In other words, you get slightly less loot, but your loot is obtained much faster. No more sitting there watching for sometimes minutes on end while you wait for enemies to die, instead you can just shoot 'em and get your loot, although at the cost of a nerf to the amount of loot gained. Basically, this change made it so that Hydroid can farm loot faster, and he isn't restricted to weaponry that is sub-par. Previously, I saw Hydroids using specific weapons that would almost kill enemies, leaving them with a fraction of health to be killed quickly for Pilfering Swarm. Now that is all out the window. Hydroid has more of a choice for weaponry, because he can take the most powerful guns he wants without making his Pilfering Swarm less effective. Additionally, Hydroid has had his gameplay sped up to be on par with the rest of the game. Now instead of waiting for Pilfering Swarm, you can pop all the enemies and keep going through your mission. Less loot for your energy than you had beforehand, but in exchange for vastly increased speed. Don't you dare say that the changes made to Pilfering Swarm hurt the user's experience. Now, instead of waiting for your weak skills to kill enemies, you kill them yourselves, speeding up the farming process and increasing user input. If you want a game where you sit around doing nothing, waiting for the computer to earn you your loot, I suggest you go play Clicker Heroes.

 

 

tldr;

The devs wanted to try implementing a feature to Exalted Blade. After implementing the feature, they saw it was abused to great scale, and reverted it.

Hydroid's Pilfering Swarm got a quality of life change. You get slightly less loot, but you get your loot much, much faster, especially at higher difficulties.

Edited August 21, 2015 by RNG_Wizard

[ArbitUHM]

 

Ok maybe you don't understand the concept of Flavor of the Month.

 

You see when you nerf the go-to weapon or buff one into that slot, it creates a situation where the community changes their weapon to the "Best in slot"

 

(of course, in warframe there are several items, not just the Gjallarhorn here).

--------------------------

 

 

Anyway, the point being is that DE will nerf or buff something directly in or from top tier  then change it the next month or next update.

 

 

Take a look at this last update. Shotguns.

>Were good

>Nerfed

>Mid tier at best

>Buffed

>Top tier

 

 

The thing with FoTM is that it's not one item getting buffed/nerfed over and over, it's something constantly being changed for top-tier because top-tier always gets nerfed.

 

 

Watch. Shotguns will get a nerf, then the community will revert to another weapon.

Maybe it's because top-tier stuff is often OP and needs to be addressed? Do you expect them to nerf stuff that's already mid- or low-tier? I don't see this as evidence of any sort of misbehavior on DE's part. It's simple balancing. 

 

Do you actually have evidence of misconduct or an actual complaint here? I mean, if DE nerfed a whole bunch of stuff and then the latest Prime Access stuff was hilariously OP, then you have some evidence that they're intentionally creating OP stuff to milk people of their money. How does toning down Excal a bit (still leaving him much more powerful than he was before) and nerfing/tweaking a months old Syndicate Augment demonstrate misconduct or bad behavior on DE's part? 

 

And of course, there is a ton of top-tier stuff that doesn't get touched at all, like Boltor Prime, Soma Prime, Irradiated Disarm, invisibility, etc.

[Hammahness808]

As for "not reading feedback", has anyone actually taken a look at recent patch notes and then comparing them to the latest bug reports? Several of the last few updates read like laundry lists of everything reported to be broken in the last week... plus some very old player-wishlist items from feedback.

Yes and agree. They've done a lot of work towards this.

[Kaiservadin]

At the moment, Warframe is not a game I would spend money on. It's a fantastic game, polished in many aspects, with a significant and mostly friendly community. The game is receiving constant updates with plenty of new content, and it's overall a fun experience. There are 2 things that keep this game from being my absolute favourite game and one that I'd happily spend money on: How DE responds to negative feedback, and how DE responds to players finding workarounds to issues with the game.

When it comes to the community, DE is good at including community content in the game (Design Council, Blade and Gun Challenges, etc) and talking to the community (Developers are active on the forums, Devstreams/Prime Times). The problem is that DE doesn't listen to the community when the community disagrees with a proposed change. Both the Pilfering Swarm and Exalted Blade + Augment changes have been good examples of this:

    - In both cases, DE made a thread announcing the changes ahead of time. This means they had time to review the community's feedback.

    - In both cases, a significant number of people disagreed with how DE was responding to the change. Both threads reached upwards of 10 pages with most of the posts talking about how these changes would negatively affect the game.

    - In both cases, despite having time to review community feedback and having a massive amount of negative feedback sent to them, DE implemented the changes anyway.

    

It's not hard to see how this would discourage a member of the community from wanting to play the game or spend money on it. Exalted Blade working with augments was an interesting interaction that people in the community capitalized on. By the time DE decided to change this interaction, it was a part of the meta and players liked how it worked. The next time an interesting interaction like this shows up, players will be more reluctant to use it for fear of it getting nerfed or removed in the near future. That, coupled with the fact that DE just ignored what a large portion of the community said, results in a lot less trust in DE.

Nitresco's posts sum up how the average player feels when they take the time to write up a well thought out response to a change, see loads of people supporting their response and disagreeing with the proposed change, and then see the change implimented anyways against the wishes of the community.

Nitresco's response to the EB changes:

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/511036-pc-psa-covert-lethality-exalted-blade-changes/?p=5705370

Nitresco's post after EB changes were implimented:

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/511036-pc-psa-covert-lethality-exalted-blade-changes/?p=5741197

Also, despite a popular rumor that's been going around, Exalted Blade being affected by augments was not a bug. DE listed that they added an interaction between Exalted Blade and melee augments in the Hotfix 16.9.4 changelog: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/479235-hotfix-1694/

This was not a case of players abusing a bug, this was players using something exactly as the developers intended, and then the developers pulled the rug out from under them a few updates later, just after everyone had enough time to start utilizing this feature fully and incorporate it into the meta.

The major reason the community didn't want Pilfering Swarm to be nerfed was because it let people obtain loot easier. Warframe's loot drop tables have always been ridiculously skewed, making obtaining a specific mod/resource/prime part/etc time consuming and not fun. Pilfering Swarm with high strength was a workaround that not only allowed players to have somewhat of a solution to this issue, it gave a very underused and disliked warframe a use.

 

DE's nerf of Pilfering Swarm is a good symbol of DE's reaction to players finding ways to subvert bugs and issues with the game: even if it hurts the end user experience, they'll make things work the way they want it to. This isn't the first time that this sort of change has happened, either: Players used Greedy Pull to pull invisible Syndicate Medallions. DE removed the ability for GPull to pull medallions without ever fixing the invisible medallion issue.

This sort of disregard for the community is why I can't justify spending money on this game, or recommending it to friends without a lengthy disclaimer.

Community nice ha, if you go on to warframe and read chat you get people talking about adult related things like XXX even though this ramps up closer to midnight, seeing censor for this would give warframe some +rep

[FelisImpurrator]

The OP does mention these things but is not specifically ABOUT them. Rather it is complaining about DE's apparent lack of responsiveness, aka, communication...

And my counter is still that they've gotten far better about it in U17 alone despite having absurdly limited resources. With a team of at least twice the size, sure, I would certainly expect them to be much faster about updates and to assign someone to deal with at least the most popular threads on the ground, but with the number of people they have, for a game the size of Warframe? It's a wonder they even still have time to talk to the players once a week, [DE]Glen posts entire threads and livestreams (where else do you get a dev who livestreams his bloody bug hunts? Tell me that!) about the long-stqanding issues he just happens to be nailing down this week or that. How is any of this no communication? The only time they really fall silent is when people start screaming at them for nerfing the Meta^TM's favorite cheese combo, and I wouldn't blame them, honestly.

[Onisa]

~

And on that note, this is a mistake, but it's an understandable mistake. Do you realize how many MORE people would whine and complain if they were called out directly by the devs for ruining something? Greedy Pull was nerfed because it was abused to hell and back for months. Same goes for a lot of these nerfs.

So you'd rather be lied to and treated like an idiot than told how it is? Odd, that kind of behavior offends the hek out of me.

It's also quite counter productive to building trust.

Also, you'd think after the umpteenth time the Devs would figure out that there are those in the community that will put their content through it's paces and wring all the efficiency possible from it.

 

Edit: totally the wrong use for a 's.

Edited August 21, 2015 by Onisa

[FelisImpurrator]

So you'd rather be lied to and treated like an idiot than told how it is? Odd, that kind of behavior offends the hek out of me.

It's also quite counter productive to building trust.

Also, you'd think after the umpteenth time the Devs would figure out that there are those in the community that will put their content through it's paces and wring all the efficiency possible from it.

No, I'd rather they flat out said it. Admitted that they changed these things because of the way they were (mis)used. You missed the point of what I was saying. It's just that I can understand why they don't, because this community is full of salt and whiners who would raise an even bigger S#&$storm than the ones we get for being called out on their crap.

 

As for the second point - so they should just not do anything fun, ever, because the community will abuse it? Well, that's an option, but that's not exactly how DE works. To paraphrase Steve when someone decided to randomly complain to him on Twitter over the Starchart 3.0 concept months ago, before anything substantial was even shown: "Everything I'm doing is for the sake of fun."

[RoninJed]

Not trying to be a jerk and maybe I missed it but how many hours does auraelus have in warframe. I only ask this because if you have hundreds (or thousands hehe) of hours played then I think you and or people like you are wrong to say it's not worth spending money or even recommending it to friends. If the game has provided that much entertainment for you i don't see how you can say it's no good. I've had my complaints too with some of the things DE does but I still like the game. Now if DE gets extra greedy and turns Warframe into a pay to win game then I will agree with auraelus. But for now I will continue to enjoy and support the game because I've overall enjoyed it more then an other game I've played for the past two years. So DE please stay loyal to your fans and keep polishing this gem that is Warframe;)

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

If the game has provided that much entertainment for you i don't see how you can say it's no good.

 

Now if DE gets extra greedy and turns Warframe into a pay to win game then I will agree with auraelus

You realize this makes you a hypocrite, right? You are saying that he is wrong for having a line, that when crossed, makes him consider the game "no good," then in the same post you say that you have your own line in the sand that would make you do the same thing.  That's not even mentioning that your entire post is an ad hominem or that WF is already P2W.

[RealPandemonium]

The only thing I can agree on from what you've listed is the Hydroid nerf.

 

Ogris is still pretty strong, if the nerf you're referring to is the ammo pool. That hasn't affected my use of the weapon. Though I only ever brought it with me to mostly ODD which has changed quite a bit. Most people will opt out to run with a tonkor because it does more damage and doesn't do self damage.

 As for the Acrid, it's strong versus corpus units and that's where I leveled mine, that's its only niche role though. It was pretty OP before, in its current state it's not that great I'll agree on that. But perhaps it was not intended to be the end all of weapons. There are actual pistols that are extremely strong that haven't been nerfed which signifies to me they are intended to be that way (Brakk / Marelok (Vaykor) etc...)

 

I wasn't around when Ember was OP but she still wipes the star-chart with ease. Given how many changes were added to her kit, it's clear that DE is still figuring out on what to do with her. But it's also clear that no matter what it will be, she will never be a tank again.

 

Excal is in a good place right now more or less. Personally I would prefer a shorter range on EB waves, but most people are fine with it as is, thus I'll settle for what we have.

 

Mag is still strong and her greedy pull is great in survival camping missions. I used gmag for draco runs and other camp runs when it pulled for everyone. It was boring for me personally and I felt like it needed a change which it got.

 

At the end of the day, most changes that are conisdered "nerfs" by the community, I actually agree with. At least those that were implemented since I've started playing the game. The hydroid nerf, was put in mainly for business reasons I imagine. Why would anyone buy resources from the market when your pilfering hydroid will supply everything you ever wanted in great quantities? He was a great way to reduce the grind, but in its current state Warframe's business model relies on the grind too much to allow that.

Good analysis.  

 

I will add that Ember can prosper for more than an hour into void survival solo and even further with a good team; it's not just the star chart.  Ember just has a bad rep which makes people tend to write her off before unlocking her potential.  (Also people are lazy and don't want to actually move around and press buttons, or at least it appears this way on the forums.)  

 

Acrid also performs serviceably against the other two factions, particularly against Ferrite Grineer due to the base Toxin damage allowing for more Corrosive in total.  We have to remember that pistol mods turn seemingly low numbers into DPS terrors.  

 

RIP Pilfering Swarm, though.  

 

No. DE creats FoTM(flavor of the month) content by raising something up to top tier, nerfing it to low tier, then making another item top tier

Uh, when was the last time DE nerfed something to low tier?  When was the last time they really buffed an item to top tier?

 

Thing to remember: A ton of the weapons(especially those with actual mechanics behind them)  are utterly useless because they provide the same damage or less than normal rifles like the soma but are a lot harder to use to actually get the damage out.

I personally think that they leave those dumb strong weapons in for players who don't want a challenge or who are bad at the game.  The entire point of Warframe is to be able to choose whatever flavor of gameplay you want in a fun, fast paced action environment.  Being able to choose from a wide variety of weapons that aren't god-erasers (or can be if you work around their limits) is the reason I have played Warframe for so long and keep coming back for more.

 

DE knew the drop chance. DE know how much it benefited because they put it in there.

 

To say they didn't expect this to be an alternate version of Nekros is just silly, that's the entire design of it in the first place.

 

 

But people "abused it" by simply implementing it in an efficient way. Right.

 

Same with CL or syndicate mods on Excal. The players are only using the content as DE designed it. 

(which ok, I get it was "OP" but still, blaming the players for the nerf is silly).

I legitimately believe that DE doesn't play their own game, and that they're relatively casual compared to most veterans.  The implementation of Greedy Mag without realizing that it would just be used to promote passive AFK farming clearly shows that they don't really understand what's going on in their game very well.  They really need good players to consult with; that's the egregious missing link in their feedback cycle with the players since the forums are a mess of loud noises where uninformed opinions generally prevail.

Edited August 21, 2015 by RealPandemonium

[Onisa]

No, I'd rather they flat out said it. Admitted that they changed these things because of the way they were (mis)used. You missed the point of what I was saying. It's just that I can understand why they don't, because this community is full of salt and whiners who would raise an even bigger S#&$storm than the ones we get for being called out on their crap.

 

As for the second point - so they should just not do anything fun, ever, because the community will abuse it? Well, that's an option, but that's not exactly how DE works. To paraphrase Steve when someone decided to randomly complain to him on Twitter over the Starchart 3.0 concept months ago, before anything substantial was even shown: "Everything I'm doing is for the sake of fun."

I dunno, considering how good DE can be about ignoring what they want and the mods' ability to tidy up around here I doubt there would be any noticeable difference. I also understand why claw machines are rigged, but it doesn't mean I have to agree with it or encourage it.

 

I'm saying that perhaps the Dev team should take a moment to consider if what they are doing is pouring gasoline on an acknowledged 'problem' before they add something to an update. After all, camping was an 'issue' before Greedy Pull or Pilfering Swarm were things. How much brain power do you suppose it would require to take past history into account and realize that releasing them as they were was a bad idea? Perhaps if someone had put two and two together they would have been released as they are now, and all of the drama tied to them these past moths would have been prevented.

 

It's honestly the Detron release all over again. It's almost like DE doesn't expect anyone to enjoy their game.

[RoninJed]

You realize this makes you a hypocrite, right? You are saying that he is wrong for having a line, that when crossed, makes him consider the game "no good," then in the same post you say that you have your own line in the sand that would make you do the same thing.  That's not even mentioning that your entire post is an ad hominem or that WF is already P2W.

Ok...I never called him a hypocrite and I was just trying to be nice and agree to disagree but I guess it back fired hehe. I should've explained exactly what I would agree on with auraelus but I didn't have time earlier to do it because I was posting while at work...excuses excuses I know but it true. I did say IF warframe turns into a pay to win game then yes I would agree with auraelus. I wouldn't recommend it to friends but I would still think it was worth the time and money I spent. Now if it went pay to win then no it wouldn't be worth our time and money because no pay to win game is in my opinion.

[EetNotErn]

If you can't handle changes to a game then don't play any sort of multiplayer game because you will always be crying and getting upset about something. I just don't understand why people get this angry over this stuff when they should know full well that's how these types of games are going to be. 

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

If you can't handle changes to a game then don't play any sort of multiplayer game because you will always be crying and getting upset about something. I just don't understand why people get this angry over this stuff when they should know full well that's how these types of games are going to be. 

If you can't handle feedback on a game then don't go on the forums for any kind of game because you will always be crying and getting upset about something. I just don't understand why people get this angry over this stuff when they should know full well that's how these types of posts are going to be.