Why De's "bandaids" With Arcanes And Cosmetics Needs A Solution!

[Makinar]

I love the arcanes but please let us have more freedom to switch  arcanes around on different cosmetic gear without all the hassle ,thank you.

Edited August 23, 2015 by Makinar

[Fraank]

You missed my point. Some people don't like the way syandanas look.  So offer a syandana that is invisible for them to put their arcanes on. That way they can use them without comrpomising the look they want. Same with letting them use the default helmet for arcanes.

 You are wrong, i understand your point. And It's one of the worst possible solutions bandaids i can imagine(at least since you mentioned it). It s terrible solution which would solve nothing at all. You should think more about "fashion tennos".

 

maybe your "solution" would fix "your problem".but that s about it. Some people love several syandanas, unlike as you, they dont want to hide them, they want to show them to everyone in the relay. A cape on this frame, a syandana on that frame and so on. Their problem is: As soon as they have 10 arcanes on 1 syandana they like, they dont want to spent 1mil credits and 2.5 days to switch their arcanes to another syandana they like as well. because syandanaA fits better on WarframeC than WarframeB for whatever personal reason.

[atom]

i kind of am with DesecratedFlame on this one. i very rarely use syandanas in missions because i don't really like the idea of capes in battle. what if it were possible to put and freely move (like others suggested make cosmetic items have a slot) arcanes on any cosmetic item including default helmets and any piece of armour? i would really like this idea and it would make arcanes interesting for me.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

 You are wrong, i understand your point. And It's one of the worst possible solutions bandaids i can imagine(at least since you mentioned it). It s terrible solution which would solve nothing at all. You should think more about "fashion tennos".

 

maybe your "solution" would fix "your problem".but that s about it. Some people love several syandanas, unlike as you, they dont want to hide them, they want to show them to everyone in the relay. A cape on this frame, a syandana on that frame and so on. Their problem is: As soon as they have 10 arcanes on 1 syandana they like, they dont want to spent 1mil credits and 2.5 days to switch their arcanes to another syandana they like as well. because syandanaA fits better on WarframeC than WarframeB for whatever personal reason.

I didn't say you had to hide them, genius.  Persona A likes the Pyra, so he could put arcanes on that.  

 

Person B likes the yomo, so he can put arcanes on it. 

 

Person C hates the look of syandana and doesn't want to equip them at all, so he can buy an invisible syandana and equip it.  They he can slot his character with arcanes on it without having to use a "visual" cosmetic item that he doesn't want to use.

 

As for the people whining about moving arcanes, you can already move them, but it's not supposed to be easy. 

 

And just FYI, I have 3 different syandana that I use (Pyra, Yomo, Vaykor) based on which Warframe I am using.

[Tyrian3k]

I didn't say you had to hide them, genius.  Persona A likes the Pyra, so he could put arcanes on that.  

 

Person B likes the yomo, so he can put arcanes on it. 

 

Person C hates the look of syandana and doesn't want to equip them at all, so he can buy an invisible syandana and equip it.  They he can slot his character with arcanes on it without having to use a "visual" cosmetic item that he doesn't want to use.

 

As for the people whining about moving arcanes, you can already move them, but it's not supposed to be easy. 

 

And just FYI, I have 3 different syandana that I use (Pyra, Yomo, Vaykor) based on which Warframe I am using.

Arcanes should not affect cosmetics at all. Stats and Cosmetic items should always be separate.

I guess I'm that weird person D who wants to be able to switch his cosmetics freely without any stats changing because of it.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

Arcanes should not affect cosmetics at all. Stats and Cosmetic items should always be separate.

I guess I'm that weird person D who wants to be able to switch his cosmetics freely without any stats changing because of it.

Cosmetics don't effect stats.  Arcanes do. They can be slotted in any cosmetic that you want. The argument against cosmetics affecting stats was that if you wanted the look of item A but then stats of item B then you were screwed. That's not an issue now (with the two exceptions I already mentioned). 

 

You aren't limited to gearing out just one syandana. If you want the stats, want to regularly switch between syandana, then just gear them both.  Or suck it up and pay to switch them as needed. 

[Fraank]

Cosmetics don't effect stats.  Arcanes do. They can be slotted in any cosmetic that you want. The argument against cosmetics affecting stats was that if you wanted the look of item A but then stats of item B then you were screwed. That's not an issue now (with the two exceptions I already mentioned). 

 

You aren't limited to gearing out just one syandana. If you want the stats, want to regularly switch between syandana, then just gear them both.  Or suck it up and pay to switch them as needed. 

How often do i have to explain it?

 

Arcanes do not affect stats, arcanes "are" stats.

Cosmetics should not be affected by stats.

And stats should not affect the players's cosmetic choice.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

How often do i have to explain it?

 

Arcanes do not affect stats, arcanes "are" stats.

Cosmetics should not be affected by stats.

And stats should not affect the players's cosmetic choice.

Arcanes are slotted into any cosmetic you want. They are not cosmetics, and they are not tied to specific cosmetics.

[Tyrian3k]

Arcanes are slotted into any cosmetic you want. They are not cosmetics, and they are not tied to specific cosmetics.

At the moment of use they are.

Also I cannot do what I clearly stated I want freely switch between my cosmetics without having to worry about arcanes.

Cosmetics need to be entirely separated from any kind of stats, otherwise they're not really cosmetics but equipment.

[nobody1special]

twas on the reddit not long ago... some interesting points were made as well...

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/3fhol1/the_arcane_distiller_should_be_removed_and_the/ 

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/30y4sz/doesnt_it_feel_like_these_arcane_enhancements/

[Magnus]

This has been an ongoing issue. DE needs to address this already.

[(PSN)ozgurozacik]

Arcanes is useless anyways dont worry when you are changing your cosmetics it will not affect your gameplay at all

[Rakosta_Kai]

There's nothing to address really...

 

Helmets with stats happened...

Salty players got salty when their favorite frames didn't get helmets offering similar advantages like some other frames,

Salty players got even more salty when Vanguard helmet got released.

Complaints happen and collective strokes on the forums were had and DE stopped making stat based helmets and introduced corrupt mods shortly after.

Salty players got even saltier than that when Rhino Prime got released with a speed boost and could actually "keep up " with Loki.

Salty players campaigned to have it removed and switched it to having all Stat based helmets removed outright.

Because many of those helmets were purchased, DE chose to meet players halfway by calling them Arcane helmets and removing them from markets and Alerts while grandfathering them in for current holders.

 

The only thing "everyone" knew or agreed on was that DE wasn't thrilled about the way stat based helmets had been introduced.

...They made that common knowledge.

 

Don't make out like the current arcane setup is a failure on DEs part because you don't like it... The current iteration is one that many of you folks who requested the change signed off on specifically.

 

A slot in a helmet or cosmetic item of your choice that allowed for the stat to actually be slotted into it at will.

 

Tons of the players who advocated the change asked for exactly that.

 

...DE did what YOU asked.

 

Don't be revisionist.

 

You can like the new system or not... But it is what many of you asked for.

[Invalid_Infinity]

There's nothing to address really...

 

Helmets with stats happened...

Salty players got salty when their favorite frames didn't get helmets offering similar advantages like some other frames,

Salty players got even more salty when Vanguard helmet got released.

Complaints happen and collective strokes on the forums were had and DE stopped making stat based helmets and introduced corrupt mods shortly after.

Salty players got even saltier than that when Rhino Prime got released with a speed boost and could actually "keep up " with Loki.

Salty players campaigned to have it removed and switched it to having all Stat based helmets removed outright.

Because many of those helmets were purchased, DE chose to meet players halfway by calling them Arcane helmets and removing them from markets and Alerts while grandfathering them in for current holders.

 

The only thing "everyone" knew or agreed on was that DE wasn't thrilled about the way stat based helmets had been introduced.

...They made that common knowledge.

 

Don't make out like the current arcane setup is a failure on DEs part because you don't like it... The current iteration is one that many of you folks who requested the change signed off on specifically.

 

A slot in a helmet or cosmetic item of your choice that allowed for the stat to actually be slotted into it at will.

 

Tons of the players who advocated the change asked for exactly that.

 

...DE did what YOU asked.

 

Don't be revisionist.

 

You can like the new system or not... But it is what many of you asked for.

Did they do what we asked?

We asked for stats to be removed from cosmetics.

 

Now we have stats on cosmetics again.

 

Totally what we asked for.

[Relickable]

Hope this gets looked at soon. Nothing was really 'fixed' for people who already owned all or most arcane helms, neither for people who later on bought them threw trade.

[Monster-T]

The old arcane helmets should be completely removed (says someone with 2 arcane vanguards in stock) - and than DE should intruduce a system where you can put arcane enhancements in every cosmetic you want.

What many people dont get (at least it seems so) is that they propably implemented those enhancements for cosmetics to create more reasons to spend plat - but this idea is not fully thought through yet.

EDIT: And it would be.... great if I could finally enhance my Proto Excal helmet. :P

Edited August 28, 2015 by Monster-T

[Invalid_Infinity]

The old arcane helmets should be completely removed (says someone with 2 arcane vanguards in stock) - and than DE should intruduce a system where you can put arcane enhancements in every cosmetic you want.

What many people dont get (at least it seems so) is that they propably implemented those enhancements for cosmetics to create more reasons to spend plat - but this idea is not fully thought through yet.

EDIT: And it would be.... great if I could finally enhance my Proto Excal helmet. :P

If you touch my arcane swindle helmet I will freaking murderize you.

[Rakosta_Kai]

Did they do what we asked?

We asked for stats to be removed from cosmetics.

 

Now we have stats on cosmetics again.

 

Totally what we asked for.

 

Yup, they did...

You never had the right to ask that stats be removed from existing cosmetics because you weren't prepared to reimburse those that purchased for that reason.

DE wasn't going to refund it either... So you got what could reasonably be given.

 

Only a fool would have expected a different outcome, to be honest... No offense.

[Fraank]

What many people dont get (at least it seems so) is that they propably implemented those enhancements for cosmetics to create more reasons to spend plat - but this idea is not fully thought through yet.

I didnt knew that either before i wrote about the topic, but you can purchase syandanas multiple times. helmets as well (but you cant craft them multiple times!)

wonder who does that...

anyways, we have 32 syandanas in total(i think i have them all)

 

-6 syndicate syandanas (no plat)

-2 void trader syandanas (no plat)

-2 steam syandanas(real money)

-4 prime access syandanas(misa, noru, pyra and yamako prime

-15 syandanas (for plat)

-the last 3 are event/other rewards.

 

I wouldnt say we have "pay2win" cosmetics, because wf is a pve game and arcanes are disabled in Pvp afaik, but to be able to use all the different raid-arcanes on syandanas you have to spent plat/money.

And at the same time your free choice of cosmetic would be gone, you are going to choose the syandanas according to their stats then. Or you are forced to use cosmetics.

[Fraank]

Yup, they did...

You never had the right to ask that stats be removed from existing cosmetics because you weren't prepared to reimburse those that purchased for that reason.

DE wasn't going to refund it either... So you got what could reasonably be given.

 

Only a fool would have expected a different outcome, to be honest... No offense.

There was another solution but it involved extra coding.

they could have seperated stats from helmets in first place and implemented the stats somewhere/somehow else.

splitting up 1 item into 2 items(cosmetic and stats) shouldnt be a big deal. and ppl who purchased arcane helmets would ve been happy as well.

[Monster-T]

If you touch my arcane swindle helmet I will freaking murderize you.

You could try that if DE releases an "invading-system" (like that in Dark Souls). :P

 

I didnt knew that either before i wrote about the topic, but you can purchase syandanas multiple times. helmets as well (but you cant craft them multiple times!)

wonder who does that...

anyways, we have 32 syandanas in total(i think i have them all)

 

-6 syndicate syandanas (no plat)

-2 void trader syandanas (no plat)

-2 steam syandanas(real money)

-4 prime access syandanas(misa, noru, pyra and yamako prime

-15 syandanas (for plat)

-the last 3 are event/other rewards.

 

I wouldnt say we have "pay2win" cosmetics, because wf is a pve game and arcanes are disabled in Pvp afaik, but to be able to use all the different raid-arcanes on syandanas you have to spent plat/money.

And at the same time your free choice of cosmetic would be gone, you are going to choose the syandanas according to their stats then. Or you are forced to use cosmetics.

Nah, I know that warframe isnt p2w - but if DE is waiting much longer, then there will be no way other to buy platinum to be able to trade for this damn Vanguard (or Swindle - just for you Invalid_infinity :P).

Edited August 28, 2015 by Monster-T

[Rakosta_Kai]

There was another solution but it involved extra coding.

they could have seperated stats from helmets in first place and implemented the stats somewhere/somehow else.

splitting up 1 item into 2 items(cosmetic and stats) shouldnt be a big deal. and ppl who purchased arcane helmets would ve been happy as well.

 

 

The stats on the existing arcane helmets weren't going to get moved to a new mechanic because DE had already said they weren't iterating on the system anymore.

...That was common knowledge.

 

Players literally asked DE, a F2P company, to expend development man-hours on a system that:

  1. Would not get them more players.

  2. Would not preserve the existing playerbase.

  3. Would earn them no revenue.

  4. Would refine a mechanic they had already said they would no longer actively support as they were going a different way (corrupt mods and now Arcane enhancements).

 

Truth told, the request made roughly about as much sense as a players complaining and the fact that DE wouldn't come and provide free road-side assistance when called.

 

Players who said they didn't want to be saddled with reduced stats because of cosmetic choices got what they wanted.

Players who felt that the arcane helmets shouldn't exist were never going to get what they wanted because it wasn't a reasonable request.

Players who felt that the status quo should have been left alone didn't get what they wanted either.

 

The only valid argument was Cosmetic choices tied to unwanted stats... DE met that need.

 

No band-aids are in place on this system.

 

A reasonable ask would be to request that syndana's have the option to not be shown since they are both cosmetic and potentially equipment now.

 

Absent that... If a player doesn't have the syndanas needed for all their arcanes, they need to go buy or earn one.

  They can do that by supporting the game and purchasing it from the market with plat they bought.

  They can support the game by farming and trading for enough plat to purchase it from the market instead as well.

[Liminal]

While I may not agree with some opinions on the helmets themselves (I really like the submarine Loki head) I entirely agree that they are mixing stats and cosmetics again, even though they (rightly) said they wanted to keep those separated.

 

It's not only that they should remain separate, it's the fact that the devs themselves publicly recognized this yet implemented the current arcanes after all, that bothers me greatly.

 

Arcanes should require a different way to equip.

Edited August 28, 2015 by The_Doc

[Invalid_Infinity]

While I may not agree with some opinions on the helmets themselves (I really like the submarine Loki head) I entirely agree that they are mixing stats and cosmetics again, even though they (rightly) said they wanted to keep those separated.

 

It's not only that they should remain separate, it's the fact that the devs themselves publicly recognized this yet implemented the current arcanes after all, that bothers me greatly.

 

Arcanes should require a different way to equip.

Exactly.

[Magnus]

A reasonable ask would be to request that syndana's have the option to not be shown since they are both cosmetic and potentially equipment now.

 

This does not solve any issues whatsoever. You still can't have on Loki's sumbarine helmet because you need to use Swindle for that extra range. You can't equip a nice syandana on because you have one you don't like on, but now invisibile.

 

And finally, you're asking for invisible cosmetics which is just dumb as hell when you can simply have slots for arcanes instead.