Umbra Vs Prime

[Monster-T]

i specifically recall them saying that all frames will be made viable......OMG that includes starters! Also they never said they were head starts. just prime versions of existing items, which, by the definition of modern primes, means they are better counterparts. sooooo again, your argument is void.

 

From the information gathered, umbra will have the same stats as the chinese version. In all honesty, if they give umbra the same stats as the chinese version, and the death orb function, what will be the point of using prime? (this is only speaking on the chance that excal prime doesn't get anything done to him) exclusivity aside, there isn't much reason to.

There isnt any information that says clearly that our Umbra will have the exact same stats as their Umbra - so thats speculation. Anf if its true then there is still the possibility that DE will buff Excal Prime to be statwise equal to Umbra - and then you have a big reason of using Excal Prime; its very exclusive look. Isnt this enough?

[GhostShip20]

The more people argue over this, the more confusing it gets over exactly how to fix this issue. Why not just make Umbra Excalibur a simple side-grade to the normal Excalibur? The stats will be slightly adjusted for uniqueness but at the end of the day Excalibur Prime will still be the top version of the Excalibur series. That way, the founders will be happy and the non-founders will get an Excalibur "Prime" (notice the quotation marks) that will satisfy their want for an Excalibur with some gold on him. As for that energy orb function, either Umbra Excalibur will have a slightly worse effect, meaning he will gain far less energy, perhaps half of what the Primes get, or have some other passive effect such as becoming invisible in dark areas or less noticeable in dark areas or have some sort of interaction with electronics, perhaps act like a virus or something.

 

But if this bickering continues, then might as well not introduce Umbra Excalibur at all and just leave it for the Chinese version of Warframe.

[Monster-T]

it is been stated that umbra will be exclusive, it can be gotten for a month after it comes and never come back and that plat thing was there to ask you what it would feel not about what it will be

Do you have a source for that statement?

[The_Raall]

The more people argue over this, the more confusing it gets over exactly how to fix this issue. Why not just make Umbra Excalibur a simple side-grade to the normal Excalibur? The stats will be slightly adjusted for uniqueness but at the end of the day Excalibur Prime will still be the top version of the Excalibur series. That way, the founders will be happy and the non-founders will get an Excalibur "Prime" (notice the quotation marks) that will satisfy their want for an Excalibur with some gold on him. As for that energy orb function, either Umbra Excalibur will have a slightly worse effect, meaning he will gain far less energy, perhaps half of what the Primes get, or have some other passive effect such as becoming invisible in dark areas or less noticeable in dark areas or have some sort of interaction with electronics, perhaps act like a virus or something.

 

But if this bickering continues, then might as well not introduce Umbra Excalibur at all and just leave it for the Chinese version of Warframe.

you made it sound very annoying post. but yes I think it should have its own unique things but not that it was copy of prime variant

[LordOfScrugging]

Thats pure speculation. We dont know yet for sure if Excal Umbra will be exclusive in any way or if he would be only accesable for plat.

Umbra gear is a limited series, whether it is timed or limited quantity. the fact remains that it won't be in the game forever, or atleast as long as excal prime was available. it's more likely to be buy only as they would need to find a spot to put umbra's parts to drop only to pull said items once it leaves. 

 

There isnt any information that says clearly that our Umbra will have the exact same stats as their Umbra - so thats speculation. Anf if its true then there is still the possibility that DE will buff Excal Prime to be statwise equal to Umbra - and then you have a big reason of using Excal Prime; its very exclusive look. Isnt this enough?

speaking metaphorically. a possibility, yes, but doesn't mean that there won't be some unruly non founders who will try to attack founders who merely utter the word "buff" as seen by a certain tenno above.  

 

Do you have a source for that statement?

Ok i can clear this one up, Lelouchio is incorrect. month of exclusivity refers to the time that china will have it before it is allowed to be released in the global build

Edited August 24, 2015 by LordOfScrugging

[Karlox]

i specifically recall them saying that all frames will be made viable......OMG that includes starters! Also they never said they were head starts. just prime versions of existing items, which, by the definition of modern primes, means they are better counterparts. sooooo again, your argument is void.

 

First: In any game they never say that the founder items are head starts. It's nice to use that argument for other games that it's never stated and here not.

 

Second: So, just because that Umbra has better stats than your Prime Founder means it's not viable? Don't you see it? You're showing to us that you're greedy. You know that they can change the lore at will but you're in denial because you wasted money and you want to be spoiled forever.

 

But don't worry, my friend. Today is Umbra, tomorrow is... whatever! By popular demand and by the time they will release more and more powerful things that will overshadow what we have today. Just give them time! One year ago nobody thought about those Umbras that are more powerful than Primes (insert some random argument here about only China and mimimi) It will come here, by other name, by other means, whatever. It happens in every game. Update or die. As always. Don't think Warframe is different because the slap would be harder to deal.

Edited August 24, 2015 by Karlox

[(XBOX)BAMMM Lightning]

speaking metaphorically. a possibility, yes, but doesn't mean that there won't be some unruly non founders who will try to attack founders who merely utter the word "buff" as seen by a certain tenno above.  

 

Agreed. But at least they can't complain about having an inferior option with Umbra available. One less bullet to deal with.  

Edited August 24, 2015 by (XB1)BAMMM Lightning

[LordOfScrugging]

First: In any game they never say that the founder items are head starts. It's nice to use that argument for other games that it's never stated and here not.

 

Second: So, just because that Umbra has better stats than your Prime Founder means it's not viable? Don't you see it? You're showing to us that you're greedy. You know that they can change the lore at will but you're in denial because you wasted money and you want to be spoiled forever.

 

But don't worry, my friend. Today is Umbra, tomorrow is... whatever! By popular demand and by the time they will release more and more powerful things that will overshadow what we have today. Just give them time! One year ago nobody thought about those Umbras that are more powerful than Primes (insert some random argument here about only China and mimimi) It will come here, by other name, by other means, whatever. It happens in every game. Update or die. As always. Don't think Warframe is different because the slap would be harder to deal.

mhmmm....they never say they are head starts.............sure, believe that.

 

yup they will totally change lore to make umbra's the top thing. yup, you are so right!

[Karlox]

I've said not in every game. As I said early, Skyforge gives you mounts for example. Since you like screenshoting things:

 

This is my founder's mount. Much head start, such amaze, wow:

 

 

This is an upcoming mount.

 

 

And I couldn't give less fuqs that it's better than mine. That kind of things happens in the game. It's used to keep it alive and milking more players. Your minutes of glory faded. You've been already used. It's time for something new. Deal with it.

[immolator1001]

I've said not in every game. As I said early, Skyforge gives you mounts for example. Since you like screenshoting things:

 

This is my founder's mount. Much head start, such amaze, wow:

 

 

This is an upcoming mount.

 

 

And I couldn't give less fuqs that it's better than mine. That kind of things happens in the game. It's used to keep it alive and milking more players. Your minutes of glory faded. You've been already used. It's time for something new. Deal with it.

Ya comparing your mount to frames isn't appropriate. Comparing your mount to the skana or lato? Sure, but with frames there are only 2 varieties. A prime and non prime. There aren't dozens of different excaliburs each with their own benefits and draw backs, there are 2.

I say sure make umbra have the same benefits as prime, but a warframe isn't start gear and should be outclassed every couple updates.

[GhostShip20]

Karlox has a point though. However, the whole Umbra vs Prime thing also comes down to balance issues, besides the concern of Excalibur Prime becoming obsolete. Sure people will say its a founder's item and so on so forth, but then as other content becomes better, those founder items will just be "meh" compared to what everyone can get.

 

Normally you would assume that anything that is exclusive to a founder will be the best thing and that any future content, though great, will never surpass the founder items. Well, that is not the case here or in any other game that had a founders program. Essentially, as Karlox pretty much says, move on.

 

Even if I was a founder in Warframe, I would understand that by a certain point, even the founder items will become "meh" compared to something else. For instance, Lato Prime cannot compare to the Lex Prime or the Skana Prime cannot compare to the Dragon Nikana. Sure I would be a bit annoyed but if there is one thing that I would have taken pride in, is helping DE make Warframe a reality. Essentially that is what every founder should pride themselves in. But I digress.

[Karlox]

I say sure make umbra have the same benefits as prime, but a warframe isn't start gear and should be outclassed every couple updates.

 

Don't worry. I've never said X item shouldn't receive Y buff under any circumstances. Today I'm just in the position of "What happens if..." Also in that case the bike is not about start gear also. Just because you receive it in a game when you're a rookie doesn't mean it's a starter gear.

 

Anyway, that's the mentality that has flaws itself. You're just stating between lines that because the Umbra has one buff more than the Prime, the Prime is outclassed. And most of the counter-arguments for that is "I JUST PAID MONEY DE! DEEEEE!!!!"

[immolator1001]

Don't worry. I've never said X item shouldn't receive Y buff under any circumstances. Today I'm just in the position of "What happens if..." Also in that case the bike is not about start gear also. Just because you receive it in a game when you're a rookie doesn't mean it's a starter gear.

Anyway, that's the mentality that has flaws itself. You're just stating between lines that because the Umbra has one buff more than the Prime, the Prime is outclassed. And most of the counter-arguments for that is "I JUST PAID MONEY DE! DEEEEE!!!!"

Every argument can be reduced down to whiney childish complaining, so I'd prefer we don't stoop down there? Kay?

The point is if Umbra had the armor and energy buff it would just be strictly better than the prime. There's be no downside. And it's not like that power increase is like the 2% fast shield regen excal prime used to have, amount of energy has become a big pet of the mega game with primed flow and quick thinking. Especially since exalted blade can last way longer at full energy.

Edited August 24, 2015 by immolator1001

[Karlox]

Every argument can be reduced down to whiney childish complaining, so I'd prefer we don't stoop down there? Kay?

The point is if Umbra had the armor and energy buff it would just be strictly better than the prime. There's be no downside. And it's not like that power increase is like the 2% fast shield regen excal prime used to have, amount of energy has become a big pet of the mega game with primed flow and quick thinking. Especially since exalted blade can last way longer at full energy.

 

I know how you feel. But those kind of things happens in every game. DE have on their side that they can do everything they want and you cannot talk them back since DE will keep that Founder exclusive to you, so they're respecting the agreement. They can release more and more things that are better than Prime series. Just... changing... several lines... in the lore. As simple as that.

 

I'm not saying you shouldn't fight against it. But at least you should have in mind the possibility that one day, there will be something better to hook the new generations.

[(PSN)ozgurozacik]

I have read all the posts and ı wasn't complaining about founders İtems ı was just complaining about all that grind for prime warframes will be for nothing if umbras will be better. There are plenty more warframes waiting to be primed why dont they prime them instead of giving us umbras

Edited August 24, 2015 by (PS4)ozgurozacik

[GhostShip20]

The only way I can see Umbra fitting the lore is if it explains what a Warframe really is, perhaps via that Update 18 cinematic quest.

 

Edit: But then, this "explaining what a Warframe is" will apply to each one. To be honest, this Umbra thing is going to mess up the momentum of the game.

Edited August 24, 2015 by GhostShip20

[immolator1001]

I know how you feel. But those kind of things happens in every game. DE have on their side that they can do everything they want and you cannot talk them back since DE will keep that Founder exclusive to you, so they're respecting the agreement. They can release more and more things that are better than Prime series. Just... changing... several lines... in the lore. As simple as that.

 

I'm not saying you shouldn't fight against it. But at least you should have in mind the possibility that one day, there will be something better to hook the new generations.

But there is no reason for it to be better than a prime than to screw over founders.

[(XBOX)BAMMM Lightning]

But there is no reason for it to be better than a prime than to screw over founders.

I don't understand how it is screwing over founders? Everyone will have the chance to buy/farm one for themselves? Personally I won't turn down extra energy for my Excalibur.

Edit, damn app

Edited August 24, 2015 by (XB1)BAMMM Lightning

[Void-Shyrok]

Umbra wont screw over founders yet.

In all seriousness we don't even know what the global version of umbra means or will even do.

We don't know if its a frame or a skin.

I'm willing to bet money that the founders are freaking out because they THINK there about to be screwed over.

Also I say this because I'm a founder and I'm sick of the founder Vs non-founder argument.

Edited August 24, 2015 by -Vanitas-

[LordOfScrugging]

Karlox has a point though. However, the whole Umbra vs Prime thing also comes down to balance issues, besides the concern of Excalibur Prime becoming obsolete. Sure people will say its a founder's item and so on so forth, but then as other content becomes better, those founder items will just be "meh" compared to what everyone can get.

 

Normally you would assume that anything that is exclusive to a founder will be the best thing and that any future content, though great, will never surpass the founder items. Well, that is not the case here or in any other game that had a founders program. Essentially, as Karlox pretty much says, move on.

 

Even if I was a founder in Warframe, I would understand that by a certain point, even the founder items will become "meh" compared to something else. For instance, Lato Prime cannot compare to the Lex Prime or the Skana Prime cannot compare to the Dragon Nikana. Sure I would be a bit annoyed but if there is one thing that I would have taken pride in, is helping DE make Warframe a reality. Essentially that is what every founder should pride themselves in. But I digress.

If this were a discussion of the weapons, that argument would be fine. However frames, which we are discussing, are a much different subject. there aren't 4 versions of a certain frame coming out per year. What we were discussing til a certain person came in calling me a child, and that i was crying (which i was not) is that there is no reason to make Umbra stronger. I was saying repeatedly to make them equal, that prime should be buffed to be equal in stats, however the death orb interaction shouldn't happen due to what we know. Umbra is just some thing that popped out of nowhere, and there are theories suggesting that this is the sentient version (which shouldn't be able to access orokin tech) this all depends on DE's take on umbra. It would be pretty cheap to just write it off like "well these frames are the result of sticking x amount of forma" (just a crude example)

 

I don't understand how it is screwing over founders? Everyone will have the chance to buy/farm one for themselves? Personally I won't turn down extra energy for my Excalibur.

Edit, damn app

i will pose a question. will you use regular excal, after you get umbra?

[(XBOX)BAMMM Lightning]

If this were a discussion of the weapons, that argument would be fine. However frames, which we are discussing, are a much different subject. there aren't 4 versions of a certain frame coming out per year. What we were discussing til a certain person came in calling me a child, and that i was crying (which i was not) is that there is no reason to make Umbra stronger. I was saying repeatedly to make them equal, that prime should be buffed to be equal in stats, however the death orb interaction shouldn't happen due to what we know. Umbra is just some thing that popped out of nowhere, and there are theories suggesting that this is the sentient version (which shouldn't be able to access orokin tech) this all depends on DE's take on umbra. It would be pretty cheap to just write it off like "well these frames are the result of sticking x amount of forma" (just a crude example)

i will pose a question. will you use regular excal, after you get umbra?

If it's better than my current excal, no. I'll miss my jade skin, but I'll always prefer function over style.

[Sir_Alex_Traffo]

Since not only Excalibur will have an Umbra version, I don't see any issue if Umbra gear is one step above the Prime gear in general.

If all the Umbra versions will have better stats than Prime versions, I can't see why Excalibur should differ.

If only Excalibur Umbra will be better than its Prime counterpart.....it will be a bit of a nonsense, honestly, like it would be if only Frost Umbra was, nothing do to with founders' stuff.

Though, I suppose the standard Excalibur Umbra will have the same stats of Excalibur or Excalibur Prime, unlike the Excalibur Umbra Prime.

This always unless the Umbra gear is an even superior gear than Primes, as I stated above.

Edited August 24, 2015 by siralextraffo

[dual1020]

What if Umbras are (enhanced/prime) warframes for a different playable faction that is not under the control of Lotus? 

 

Whatever the case, as a person who already spent 1000+ hours and have all the frames (except excal prime), i wouldn't mind having more iterations of a frame as long they arent skins with the same stats. 

 

Though it would interesting to see if umbras are going to be like the vandals/wraiths/prisma versions of frames where the stats are different. 

[Sir_Alex_Traffo]

What if Umbras are (enhanced/prime) warframes for a different playable faction that is not under the control of Lotus? 

 

Whatever the case, as a person who already spent 1000+ hours and have all the frames (except excal prime), i wouldn't mind having more iterations of a frame as long they arent skins with the same stats. 

 

Though it would interesting to see if umbras are going to be like the vandals/wraiths/prisma versions of frames where the stats are different.

The skin point is a bit of an issue to me, the only one I have with this whole Umbra question.

I'd be really glad if Umbra was just a skin I can use on my Excalibur Prime, which I'm quite fond of.

Otherwise, I'd be forced to chose between 2 enhanced versions of my main frame; which is not necessarily a bad thing, even if I'd rather have Umbra appearance with Prime interaction with Void orbs.

Also, Excalibur Prime is my most used frame, I'd be sad to have to start from 0 with another Excalibur...

[Rollerlane]

i thought the Umbra's were going to be skins