How To Fix Ember

[Hammahness808]

So you'd say Frost is broken, too?

Thing is, Frost has much higher survivability from his snow globe, plus, all of his attacks have a chilling or frozen proc. Meaning he has a lot of damage mitigation potential, compared to Ember. Fire is supposed to be the opposite and offensive side and to a degree, she can definitely put out some damage. However, Ember has three abilities that require her to jump into a pile of enemies to get the most out of them. On top of the fact that Guns are generally the damage dealer with any frame, making Accelerant her highest prized skill, with a slight stun and potential increased damage from weapons. She needs changes. I realize you were replying to the "1 element for all abilities" but, I felt like this needed to be said as well.

[RealPandemonium]

Thing is, Frost has much higher survivability from his snow globe, plus, all of his attacks have a chilling or frozen proc. Meaning he has a lot of damage mitigation potential, compared to Ember. Fire is supposed to be the opposite and offensive side and to a degree, she can definitely put out some damage. However, Ember has three abilities that require her to jump into a pile of enemies to get the most out of them. On top of the fact that Guns are generally the damage dealer with any frame, making Accelerant her highest prized skill, with a slight stun and potential increased damage from weapons. She needs changes. I realize you were replying to the "1 element for all abilities" but, I felt like this needed to be said as well.

Ember is safe as F*** while doing tons of damage.  Max efficiency, use Stretch, don't use Narrow Minded.  Slot Overextended if you can't handle things.  It's not hard to do this; I don't understand how bashing Ember is still a thing.  

[Hammahness808]

Ember is safe as F*** while doing tons of damage.  Max efficiency, use Stretch, don't use Narrow Minded.  Slot Overextended if you can't handle things.  It's not hard to do this; I don't understand how bashing Ember is still a thing.  

Still a thing? Let's consider other "squishy frames" shall we?

-Banshee has a 25 energy knockdown ability and a 75 energy ability that stuns all enemies in a 20m range, which follows her around. With the stun lasting longer than "Accelerant" and a duration that lasts 25 seconds. Not to mention, can be used with "Sonar", which does more damage than "Accelerant" and hits more enemies and doesn't lock you into a specific element or weapon and has a higher duration.

-You have Nova, who has a 100 energy cost ability that slows everyone in a massive radius and makes them receive 2x more damage, plus they explode on death and deal 800 damage to enemies next to them, plus can be affect enemies in the next room over (not making her be near anyone very closely). She also has "Wormhole", that allows her escape very quickly.

-You have Limbo and Loki who both have a self-effect ability that allows to escape the battlefield quickly and for a decent period of time.

-Mirage has "Hall of mirrors" AND "Eclipse" AND "Prism", I don't think I need to even explain these.

-Nyx has "Chaos" and "Absorb", not gonna explain those either.

 

 

I think that's about it, but if you can argue that Ember needs incredibly little CC (without augments) or defense - compared to other frames and is fine with just using Damaging abilities, be my guest. Also, if you quote my full post, address everything I put into it, not just the first sentence.

 

 

Also, with the Ember and Frost comparison. Freeze does a 100% proc chance in it's area, compared to Fireball's 50%. Icewave also has 100% proc chance.

Edited September 2, 2015 by TGKazein

[darksithis002]

while i don't find her useful in t4/endgame, she's pretty good for a t2/t3 exterminate when you rush thru with a volt. constanly spam her accelerant and wof to quickly beat the mission, especially with spd up from volt.

[RealPandemonium]

Still a thing? Let's consider other "squishy frames" shall we?

-Banshee has a 25 energy knockdown ability and a 75 energy ability that stuns all enemies in a 20m range, which follows her around. With the stun lasting longer than "Accelerant" and a duration that lasts 25 seconds. Not to mention, can be used with "Sonar", which does more damage than "Accelerant" and hits more enemies and doesn't lock you into a specific element or weapon and has a higher duration.

-You have Nova, who has a 100 energy cost ability that slows everyone in a massive radius and makes them receive 2x more damage, plus they explode on death and deal 800 damage to enemies next to them, plus can be affect enemies in the next room over (not making her be near anyone very closely). She also has "Wormhole", that allows her escape very quickly.

-You have Limbo and Loki who both have a self-effect ability that allows to escape the battlefield quickly and for a decent period of time.

-Mirage has "Hall of mirrors" AND "Eclipse" AND "Prism", I don't think I need to even explain these.

-Nyx has "Chaos" and "Absorb", not gonna explain those either.

 

 

I think that's about it, but if you can argue that Ember needs incredibly little CC (without augments) or defense - compared to other frames and is fine with just using Damaging abilities, be my guest. Also, if you quote my full post, address everything I put into it, not just the first sentence.

 

 

Also, with the Ember and Frost comparison. Freeze does a 100% proc chance in it's area, compared to Fireball's 50%. Icewave also has 100% proc chance.

Banshee is nowhere as safe as Ember.  Her 1 locks you into an animation, her 3 stuns for the same amount of time as Accelerant and is not recastable, and her 4 forces you to stand still and take no action for its duration.

 

Nova's super safe because of her 4 and 3, but stuns > slows and Ember can match her in damage outside of AMD shenanigans.

 

Limbo and Loki bypass the game, pretty much.  Also can't match Ember's damage except for maybe RIft Surge.  

 

Mirage's 1 and 3 give you powerful, though conditional protection and offensive potential.  Prism's CC is ridiculous and its damage is formidable as well, but using it limits your freedom of movement.  Can't really argue with Mirage's ridiculous maxcase, though.  

  

Nyx's Absorb requires you to drop what you're doing to use it.  Chaos is not a perfect defense but is nonetheless very cheesy wide-range lockdown.  Nyx isn't matching Ember's damage without spamming charged Absorbs.

[Hammahness808]

Banshee is nowhere as safe as Ember.  Her 1 locks you into an animation, her 3 stuns for the same amount of time as Accelerant and is not recastable, and her 4 forces you to stand still and take no action for its duration.

I'll have to test the stun time, from my experience though it's much longer for Silence. Banshee's Earthquake is kinda out of the question as it really is only at maximum use if you have a team with you and it's damage doesn't really compare to Sonar.

 

 

Nova's super safe because of her 4 and 3, but stuns > slows and Ember can match her in damage outside of AMD shenanigans.

That's the thing, other squishy caster frames are for the most part, have better ability kitsl. Maybe not in damage but in overall gameplay. No, if you only say Ember is playable and even a little into higher levels, you'd be correct. However, compared to other frames in her class, she is weaker.

 

 

Also can't match Ember's damage except for maybe RIft Surge.

No, they can't match her damage completely, well I don't know really much about Limbo but I do know that with Loki, you can definitely backstab a lot of enemies.

 

 

 

Chaos is not a perfect defense but is nonetheless very cheesy wide-range lockdown.

Not only that but, at much high levels, enemies will do more damage to themselves than what you could do with abilities or guns. Making it ultimately better than anything Ember could put up. Especially when you confuse enemies with Auras.

 

EDIT: UPDATE 17.3

Fixed AoE damage counting towards earning a ‘headshot’.

Looks like Fireblast won't be headshotting anymore.

Edited September 3, 2015 by TGKazein

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

Banshee is nowhere as safe as Ember.  Her 1 locks you into an animation, her 3 stuns for the same amount of time as Accelerant and is not recastable, and her 4 forces you to stand still and take no action for its duration.

 

Nova's super safe because of her 4 and 3, but stuns > slows and Ember can match her in damage outside of AMD shenanigans.

 

Limbo and Loki bypass the game, pretty much.  Also can't match Ember's damage except for maybe RIft Surge.  

 

Mirage's 1 and 3 give you powerful, though conditional protection and offensive potential.  Prism's CC is ridiculous and its damage is formidable as well, but using it limits your freedom of movement.  Can't really argue with Mirage's ridiculous maxcase, though.  

  

Nyx's Absorb requires you to drop what you're doing to use it.  Chaos is not a perfect defense but is nonetheless very cheesy wide-range lockdown.  Nyx isn't matching Ember's damage without spamming charged Absorbs.

 

Banshee is much safer as sonar tells where you enemies are and sonar stuns over a duration, You don't need to spam it for every group of enemies. Also the damage blows embers damage out of the water.

 

Nova's mp explosions + damage buff severely outdamages ember as it can by type of damage effective + the radial explosion.

 

Nyx absorb + sancti castanas can clear a whole room in t4 within 5 seconds and be reliable till nullifiers come in the thousands.

 

Loki and Limbo are utility/support frames, however limbo does more damage with rift surge then ember does with accelerant.... utility can out damage a dps>!?!?

 

Sayrn yup nuff said

[RealPandemonium]

Banshee is much safer as sonar tells where you enemies are and sonar stuns over a duration, You don't need to spam it for every group of enemies. Also the damage blows embers damage out of the water.

 

Nova's mp explosions + damage buff severely outdamages ember as it can by type of damage effective + the radial explosion.

 

Nyx absorb + sancti castanas can clear a whole room in t4 within 5 seconds and be reliable till nullifiers come in the thousands.

 

Loki and Limbo are utility/support frames, however limbo does more damage with rift surge then ember does with accelerant.... utility can out damage a dps>!?!?

 

Sayrn yup nuff said

Silence stuns once per cast or each time enemies move out of and then back into its range.  This makes it unreliable unless you run a minimum duration build that makes sonar almost useless.  Even with a minimum duration build it is not as responsive or as recastable as Accelerant.  Sonar gives you enemy radar, but so does Animal Instinct, and WoF makes it so that you don't need to know where every last enemy is since it's constantly setting them on fire, which stuns them and allows me to see where they are through walls if facing them due to the damage numbers appearing.  Sonar's damage buff is twice that of Accelerant's and affects all weapon damage, but will not usually amplify ability damage (which Ember has plenty of) and requires you to hit the weak spots for it to work.  The augment does allow for crazy things to happen with Sonar when sufficiently stacked, but I don't think either ability is strictly better than the other, especially considered their respective frames' other abilities.

 

MPrime's Blast damage explosions aren't any better than Ember's Heat damage against anything besides Proto Shields and heavy Infested.  Ember's powers all proc and out-perform MPrime explosions' sustained DPS by far. MPrime's also a cheesy ability that does way too much and makes the game easy.  Even considering that, the constant ability damage the Ember puts out helps Accelerant add much more sustained damage than MPrime adds to Nova's output.

 

Nyx can abuse Absorb until too many Nullifiers show up, but Ember can do the same with her kit (and have a lot more fun doing things besides standing in a bubble and hoping nothing goes wrong for an hour.)

 

Limbo's Rift Surge has a bigger damage bonus but Limbo has very little practical ability damage output, and what little he has is not affected by Rift Surge.  Limbo also sheds the safety aspects of his kit in order to benefit from Rift Surge, which is a sacrifice that Ember doesn't have to make.  

 

Saryn can abuse the Miasma oversight to get big damage numbers but Ember can come close to her sustained damage output and far exceed it over wide areas, particularly with a max range build.  Ember is also safer than Saryn due to all the CC that she brings to the table.  Also, Miasma is just silly.  If any frame had 3000 base damage added to one of their radial powers due to a programming oversight they, too, would explode in popularity.  

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

Silence stuns once per cast or each time enemies move out of and then back into its range.  This makes it unreliable unless you run a minimum duration build that makes sonar almost useless.  Even with a minimum duration build it is not as responsive or as recastable as Accelerant.  Sonar gives you enemy radar, but so does Animal Instinct, and WoF makes it so that you don't need to know where every last enemy is since it's constantly setting them on fire, which stuns them and allows me to see where they are through walls if facing them due to the damage numbers appearing.  Sonar's damage buff is twice that of Accelerant's and affects all weapon damage, but will not usually amplify ability damage (which Ember has plenty of) and requires you to hit the weak spots for it to work.  The augment does allow for crazy things to happen with Sonar when sufficiently stacked, but I don't think either ability is strictly better than the other, especially considered their respective frames' other abilities.

 

MPrime's Blast damage explosions aren't any better than Ember's Heat damage against anything besides Proto Shields and heavy Infested.  Ember's powers all proc and out-perform MPrime explosions' sustained DPS by far. MPrime's also a cheesy ability that does way too much and makes the game easy.  Even considering that, the constant ability damage the Ember puts out helps Accelerant add much more sustained damage than MPrime adds to Nova's output.

 

Nyx can abuse Absorb until too many Nullifiers show up, but Ember can do the same with her kit (and have a lot more fun doing things besides standing in a bubble and hoping nothing goes wrong for an hour.)

 

Limbo's Rift Surge has a bigger damage bonus but Limbo has very little practical ability damage output, and what little he has is not affected by Rift Surge.  Limbo also sheds the safety aspects of his kit in order to benefit from Rift Surge, which is a sacrifice that Ember doesn't have to make.  

 

Saryn can abuse the Miasma oversight to get big damage numbers but Ember can come close to her sustained damage output and far exceed it over wide areas, particularly with a max range build.  Ember is also safer than Saryn due to all the CC that she brings to the table.  Also, Miasma is just silly.  If any frame had 3000 base damage added to one of their radial powers due to a programming oversight they, too, would explode in popularity.  

 

Sonar is 3 leagues above accelerant for it having better base multiplier and having it be able to recast itself meaning you get three sonars for the price of one. You can also mod it easier then ember since power efficiency isn't a big deal when sonar can act as 3 sonars,

 

Sonar has better range better effect and tells you what enemies are under the effect and where. Hitting weak spots is ridiculously easy and can be universally helpful to a team

 

Silence is a stun and enemies notice you less meaning its actually more defensive then you think, Especially since its based off range and duration. By the time an enemy gets in range to you shoot you they up on sonar/minimap stunned... and ready to be shot

 

Nova has amd 'nuff said, and M prime does 3 things. Add damage multiplier add radial explosion that does more damage then WoF alone and cc enemies slowing everything down. It beats WoF at all levels cause the damage multiplier and the more clustered the enemies the more effect the radial damage does. If there are 5 enemies in a group and one of them explodes, thats 800 to 4 enemies or 3200 damage total. This beats Wof's one at a time mechanic. You'll see the biggest difference when enemies are level 100 and mp makes them mortal compared to being tickled by WoF.

 

Limbo can easily go into then void rift surge then use a mid sized cataclysm to safely attack groups of enemies. You set it up so they come to you, the second they come into cataclysm you blast them away, If they start pose a threat remove the cataclysm

 

Nyx + Sancti castanas = instant 15k damage absorbed meaning you dive-bomb enemies. Throw castanas at em jump to em absorb detonate chastanas detonate absorb, easy destroys all mobs unless protected by nullifier, Safe too and acts as a double whammy if used on heavy units

 

Have you played sayrn? nothing you say there is even remotely true. Miasma blinds enemies after you use it. With max efficiency no duration and range you can safely spam that till everything dies no problem. theres also molt which can act like a distraction but it really can't compare to sayrn's radial blinding death nuke that does more damage then ember over a wide area for less energy and blinds enemies. Its also faster then using accelerant + everything with a better damage type.

 

The fact that all these frames put ember to shame mean she desperately needs a rework. Id be happy if she became as good as frost

Edited September 4, 2015 by (PS4)UltraKardas

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

MPrime's also a cheesy ability that does way too much and makes the game easy. 

 

The only thing cheesy here my friend is you and your ember. The only non cheesy ability is accelerant and it needs to be tweaked

[VinnyBoy]

I don't understand what's you guys beef with World on fire. I love that ability!

 

It's fireblast I don't like.

Edited September 4, 2015 by VinnyBoy