Limbo The Invulnerable And Mesa The Untouchable

[(PSN)Blak_Mamba17]

Hey fait, I love your work! I like your limbo idea and I agree about his design seeming a little um "out of place" but as a fellow mesa fan how can you say that about her design:((( lol. Change her jacket to blak and she feels like a cowboy bebop character or rock the all yellow with blak trimming, equip the dragon nikana with decisive judgement and your ready to Kill Bill!. I love the idea of being able to use her regulator pistols like excal's Evicerating, Holy Blade of Righteous Destiny. That.. would.. be.. the %$#. Ballyhoo.

[My_Aphelion]

Pretty much agree with the ideas, just there should be some sort downside instead of just letting the player take full control. Maybe like accuracy reduced the lower the duration or something with the powers. 

 

But apart from that, it seems all good.

[Roxorium]

Idea for Peacemaker rework:

 

- Pressing 4 gives you a pair of Regulators, with 12 mag capacity in total.

- Casting costs 50 energy, reloading the guns costs 35, decreased by bullets left(reloading with 6 left would cost 18 energy). No energy drain over time.

[chaosdragun]

As I said once before, Limbo is my main frame, i've used him since I was able to get him and think he has one of the best looks or at least one of the most unique. I do think that he could use an alternate skin, something that might match one of the skins for weapons such as the Nightwatch camo or my personal favorite Kuberus, making him look like a Demon of the void if colored like that. Right now coloring Limbo and Mesa feels like coloring a power ranger, not enough design choice and while the game might be an adult space power rangers game the theme doesn't fit as well as the other warframes.

 

As for the abilities, I honestly think the void monster idea is awesome although maybe make a few custom monsters instead of just Kubrow, then again.. Void Chesa would be kinda cool to try out. Anyways Cataclysm puts you and your teammates in a bubble of pure void whereas it should put all entities within radius into the void i.e. terminals, energy, ammo exc. For banish I agree that it should hit multiple enemies but maybe with a bit more flash like if the amprex hits across multiple targets but with void lines instead of lightning bolts, making use of stretch and overextended. Rift surge, I didn't think that far ahead, I like your idea because all I could think for it was "This need more power.." but that's just me.

 

As for Mesa, I literally only use her for defence at this point so.. if that says anything. If the regulators are going to work as you say i'd like them to be a bit more like Excal except with primaries, i'd love to see some punchthrough on those beasts since the aimbot would be taken off :P.

[ThatonePenguinPerson]

I am really liking this idea of Void Monsters :3 I would really like it though if when the void monsters  had like a 3% chance to turn an enemy they killed into a Special Void Monster kinda like the Juggarnaut that can attack enemies on both planes but only lives for 20 seconds.

I also have an idea for rift surge.
So for rift surge, you target an enemy that is in the rift and make them go insane, or really its like a 5 second stun.  But once those 5 seconds are over the rift consumes the enemy and turns them into a void monster that gives off a small radial damage boost to you, allies and void monsters.  But you can only do this to low teir enemies like crewman, lancers, etc.  For the Higher tier enemies it give a radial stun around that enemy for like 6 seconds.

Edited August 30, 2015 by ThatonePenguinPerson

[Chickennipple]

I think that Mesa's ult should have some sort of ammo regeneration because that would work well with her other abilities.

[daredevinho]

Ok,

 

Limbo:

First thing to be fixed on Limbo is the inability to pickup loot while in The Rift. Why not? Why DE? Dammit.

 

Second, Rift Surge should affect all allies in The Rift; if they enter The Rift after the initial cast, they will get the remaining duration.

 

Third, Limbo Cataclysm should be like Nova's ultimate: slowly expanding OUT. You want enemies INSIDE the rift, not outside. Duration and range would affect it like it already does (instead of shrinking, it increases faster or slower).

 

Mesa:

Ballistic Battery should be castable while using Peacemaker. I know you can use it before, channel Peacemaker, and then deactivate BB for a strong bullet; but then, you need to deactivate Peacemaker to store power again - why? If you could keep casting while channeling, your energy would dry up, so while Peacemaker will fill it up very fast, it's not wise to discharge it frantically.

 

Her other two abilities are fine. If people suggest changes... whatever, let's go to the last one, Peacemaker.

Lock her camera so she can't kill everybody in a 360º... which is everybody. Maybe it makes her aim first person, and you can slowly turn your camera, like the grinner turrets! That fixes the gigantic POV she has, but doesn't fixes her camera...

[FrozenVoid]

Stingray321 Today, 03:58PM

Would the void monsters be mutated and misshapen since they live in the void?

(Copy pasted that since i have no idea how to quote stuff on the phone)

On topic, basically Limbo has nothing to do with the Void. I know alot of ppl refer to his abilities with the Void but its false. He banishes them into the Rift. Which is a completely different and from the Void independent plane of existance. (Kinda his very own dimension?)

[Norhen]

when i thaught about a limbo rework "void monsters" also came into my mind! :D

He is supposed to be some kind of magician! So he should be able to summon stuff out of another dimension! >:O

 

I like how he looks but i get your point. What he wears looks good! but it really doesn't look like a warframe metal suit. x)

[Eldnacpeek]

Anything to change them as they are right now. The only thing I use Limbo for now is vault runs so I have no threats. I'm not so fond of the idea of "void monsters" as Limbo accesses the Rift, which is the space between material plane and the Void, not the void itself. Since Limbo is the only frame who can independently access the Rift, I want his abilities to say so. Sure, they do something similar right now, but in a very disastrous, more harm than good way.

 

As for Mesa, I completely agree, though I also wish for changes made to her three other abilities. I find the design of Mesa's abilities to be boring, three buffs and a stationary ult. If Peacemaker was changed, these abilities would be slightly acceptable, though I am still not fond of three simple buffs.

Edited August 30, 2015 by LazerSkink

[totsan25]

I don't know why you people doesn't like him at all. I think he is one of the most supportive Frames in the game I've even played with him and love him soo much that when i was with 2 avalible slots ( Limbo and Mirage ) i sell Mirage to get the next Frame. P.S. Used 23% of total played time (70d) I hope that someone will understand me :)

[totsan25]

I don't know why you people doesn't like him at all. I think he is one of the most supportive Frames in the game I've even played with him and love him soo much that when i was with 2 avalible slots ( Limbo and Mirage ) i sell Mirage to get the next Frame. P.S. Used 23% of total played time (70d) I hope that someone will understand me :)

Edited August 30, 2015 by totsan25

[Xiicuyn]

I feel like the problem with the look of Limbo is actually finding a look to fit his powers. I agree he does look like a 1980's magician. Ideas for what he should look like vary so much from looking like Dr. Manhattan when his outline and circulatory system were visible to... this is the hard part. Im just waiting for a perfect susanoo style (Asuras Wrath too) warframe and I have a feeling if all warframe get umbra, ash will look like that. Really thats where the problem begins... DE made it hard to actually create these designs but thats what makes them unique with frame like Mirage, Nyx, Limbo and others. We are left to view tennos in metal suits and metal suits only. If you think about it only way to make a "War" Frame look like a Warframe is to make it have powers thatll make it seem like its ready for war. After all WarFrame is one big War between multiple factions. And no, I dont like limbo. Once he hit lvl 30, he was out my inventory.

Edited August 30, 2015 by Xiicuyn

[Fait]

I think that Mesa's ult should have some sort of ammo regeneration because that would work well with her other abilities.

First off, love your name. Second, It does sound interesting but I dunno, DE usually likes the whole energy over time deal, but eh who knows. Maybe our energy can be the bullets? :U

[MGlBlaze]

The actual mechanics require some thought, though I do agree that Limbo's core design as it currently stands is rather broken. Aside from anything else, one would expact that a power with the name "Cataclysm" would actually be marginally cataclysmic.

 

I remember suggesting the following on the video; remove Rift Surge entirely for a defensive ability, and turn Cataclysm into an offensive ability.
#3 would be Rift Bastion (working title). Would start at a constant radius and slowly expand outwards over the duration. Instead of a full rift transition, it would instead decrease damage taken by anything inside the bastion from sources outside it. Let's say 60% at max and going down to 25% at the end of the duration (so it gradually gets weaker as time goes on.). Teammates may damage enemies that are outside the bastion, but with a 25% damage reduction to balance things out. Damage resistance for stuff inside would scale with power strength while cross-rife damage penalty would not. Would offer an alternative to Snow Globe. Snow Globe giving full protection, while Rift Bastion would be partial protection but in exchange for greater flexibility.
Note; enemies would not get the defense bonus if in the rift, but would suffer no adverse effects from the transition as the Rift Bastion is a more gentle rift application. Also you can actually see out of the damn thing properly, unlike Cataclysm.

Change Cataclysm to a full damage ability. Enemies near the edge of the sphere are drawn in, and are trapped inside. Take damage over time and a final burst of damage when the duration runs out or when Limbo cancels the cataclysm. If however a certain Critical Mass of enemies enter the Cataclysm bubble, it instead triggers the collapse damage immediately, before spawning a larger but very short-lived version of Vauban's Vortex that draws surrounding enemies in and then explodes for a second burst of damage, causing enemies to ragdoll plus being hit with a guaranteed slash damage proc maybe?
Give it a pretty long cast time. Something that really feels like Limbo is basically tearing a small hole in the universe.

Both of those are kinda spit-balling. No idea if those would actually work out.

That said, I enjoy Mesa's visual design, personally. Yes it looks like clothes, which she shares with Limbo, but my issue with Limbo's visual design is that it's patently lazy. "Three-piece suit. Done." Sure you can argue that Excalibur and Ash have pretty bare-bones designs but even they have more effort put in to the concept than Limbo does. Mesa's armour/clothes meanwhile has a lot of style and flair in my opinion, so I actually don't mind. But that does get into subjective debate a bit more than I would like.

Edit; added my own rough ideas for limbo ability changes. Like, super rough.

Edited August 30, 2015 by MGlBlaze

[Fait]

The actual mechanics require some thought, though I do agree that Limbo's core design as it currently stands is rather broken. Aside from anything else, one would expact that a power with the name "Cataclysm" would actually be marginally cataclysmic.

That said, I enjoy Mesa's visual design, personally. Yes it looks like clothes, which she shares with Limbo, but my issue with Limbo's visual design is that it's patently lazy. "Three-piece suit. Done." Sure you can argue that Excalibur and Ash have pretty bare-bones designs but even they have more effort put in to the concept than Limbo does. Mesa's armour/clothes meanwhile has a lot of style and flair in my opinion, so I actually don't mind. But that does get into subjective debate a bit more than I would like.

I love Mesa's look as well, just having clothing as a "warframe suit" just makes no sense Warframe wise. That why I talked about both Mesa and Limbo. 

Edited August 30, 2015 by Fait

[jfhsanseiIII]

I'd love some changes to Mesa's 4th ability, but it's be nice if you could get some good synergy with her 1st ability as well. It's a great ability, but I'm guilty of just forgetting I've gotten it charged up.

Limbo does need some changes, I'm less fussed about his appearance though, to his overall functioning. At the moment he is either niche or troll frame. I've taken him solo and just don't really enjoy my experience to be honest. I can use him in defense,like in the example given by the OP, but again it's not really fun for me.

[COZZY91]

Limbo, by trolls for trolls.

[(XBOX)Hitome Meisner]

They should make rift surge summon the beast instead of having them out by default for limbo also they should make it that if limbo banishes a teammate they don't get energy but they get health regen increase, while changing his haven Aug mod to giving 25% health on banish to 25% energy on banish so it's like I'm giving you my energy to use so it requires me to take the cost of banish to give a player 25% of there base energy so it's not as spammable. Also limbo should be the only one to benefit from energy per tick as he's adept to the rift dimension pretty much his own edo-tensei or tsukyiomi world if your into anime. You should also be able to pick up stuff at least if it's in the cataclysm because by that logic the items are in the area that's distorted by the rift opening. As a limbo player I think these changes are necessary to take limbo out of this one trick pony problem of being a battery for Mesa/Excalibur.

[Razer_Angel21]

But I really liked the Grammaton Cleric gun-kata feel of Mesa's fourth ability it just makes me so happy and remember the awesome action of the movie.The poses,the firing,ugghhhh..well,to each their own I guess,maybe I'm just too much of a fan of gun-kata especially that in Mesa she is actually doing it which is why she is the ultimate gunslinger to it because of that theme.Anyway I agree with aimbotting too much though I've seen Mesas fall faster than they can pin down enemies in hour long T4S so yeah,it's good but not in the late late game and would be outshined by Excalibur at longer drawn out survivals...anyway I'm okay with change,it's just that the Grammaton Cleric feel,or generally the gun-kata feel on Mesa is what I am going for,I don't think you could do that gun-kata thing while shooting on your own like how would you shoot in different directions and do all the poses manually...or we gonna implement some DMC Dante shooting mechanics for this..even then it'd be hard,if not impossible to transition all of the poses of Mesa compared to DMC4 Dante since Mesa has more complex poses and might as well require a third hand to press the buttons if assigned some..that's just my opinion..I don't want Mesa to get stripped of the epitome of an ultimate gunslinger,which is gun-kata...removing the gun-kata thing from a "true" gunslinger removes the essence of being one itself..though I like it to be more skillful I wish DE could find a way to implement it properly.

[(XBOX)Zkurcrow]

meh

[fatpig84]

Do not make Banish an AOE.

Why ?

Because my Limbo run no tank mods.

I just isolate and murder a heavy then run off.

 

An AOE will mean Limbo can take more than it can reliably chew.

Void monster idea is nice, but unless it has a real hard CC or hard disable component, it will just be gimmicky.

[ThatonePenguinPerson]

Do not make Banish an AOE.

Why ?

Because my Limbo run no tank mods.

I just isolate and murder a heavy then run off.

 

An AOE will mean Limbo can take more than it can reliably chew.

Void monster idea is nice, but unless it has a real hard CC or hard disable component, it will just be gimmicky.

I think banish should be a charge up thing.  Where one tap only puts one thing in the rift and holding it for a second would put that an enemy and the surrounding enemies into the rift.

[CataReverb]

I love the youtubes and twitch streams you do.  I agree with most of this.

 

1: Could you please explain the void monsters better in the original post?  Such as... Are they enemies that appear and defeating them gives a bonus?  Are they just shadows that wander around when limbo's on the team?  If they're the result of killing something banished then awesome.  If they're just always there and they're a pain that you need a limbo to deal with them, then I absolutely object.

 

2: The banish into an AoE, I kinda agree, but it doesn't solve the "I can't do anything without rolling after each banish" problem.  Would it be like a miniature cataclysm that has to be retracted after use, but doesn't trap enemies in as much as stuns them after going in or out for a second or so?  It'd be nice, but would suffer a bit of homogenized powersets.  I wouldn't mind a bit of a cataclysm rework though.

 

3:  I kinda agree with the Peacemarker redo, I'd prefer a middleground though, where you fire automatically at anything around your crosshair and anything you've marked with altfire since that's a thing now, it's just turning Peacemakers into a pair of boltos makes my mouse finger nervous.

 

4:  When Mesa's far off but eventual redesign comes around, I want a better shooting gallery.  Sharing a buff with your team is nice, but losing duration on your buff and making it not recastable until everyone's had a turn with your baby is the reason I don't play my duration Mesa with others.  This's the reason you don't see duration Mesas in random games.

 

5:  While I disagree with you that their design is unfitting of Warframe, as Frost, Trinity, Banshee and Saryn seem to have clothing-like bits... (Well, Mesa's default helmet doesn't look like a helmet at all, unlike every other frame)  I do support variety, and additional designs for frames.

[horcruxpotter]

Having Mesa's ult be completely mobile, looking in a general direction and getting consistent head shots?

Might end up being OP, +1 to you anyways

Edit: Misread, now my question is why should I use the regulators over my 5 forma Soma Prime?

If the regulators are not affected by weapon mods, then I don't think you shouldn't. On the other hand, if the regulators could be affected by secondary weapon mods (just like Excalibur's Exalted Blade is affected by melee mods), you would probably want to use super bad &#! regulators instead of anything else. I would probably use mesa A LOT more if her ultimate was something like Exalted Blade.