Barges Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 (edited) Hello - and welcome to my first warframe idea, Phantom. Its goal is to be a fully stealth-based warframe that can complete a mission without ever being detected. I've done my best to make him original and balanced, and any suggestions are welcome. Thanks for reading! Art My attempt at art for the helmet: Abilities Passive - Backstab Phantom deals +75% finisher damage 1 - Ghost 25 energy Become invisible and lunge forward. Hitting an enemy causes you to pause for a moment, before invisibly launching forward again in the direction of your cursor. This can chain between any number of enemies. If you don't hit anyone, you will become visible again at the end of the lunge. Enemies you hit will not be alerted, but they will be blinded for 2/3/4/5 seconds. 2 - Diversion 10 energy Throws a grenade that emits noise. Enemies within 10/15/20/25 meters will walk toward the sound. Enemies who are within 5 meters of the grenade will be unable to hear any other sounds. In addition, if you are within 5 meters of it, your weapon's sounds will be silenced. 3 - Facade 50 energy Aiming at an enemy and using this ability will cause you to become disguised as that enemy for 8/10/12/15 seconds. Getting a kill will add 5 seconds to the remaining duration of the ability. If you take damage, the ability is cancelled. Enemies will attack you if you deal damage to them without killing them, they see you attack an enemy, or they see an enemy attack you. Enemies such as shield ospreys will affect you as if you were the enemy you are disguised as. 4 - Override 125 energy Deactivates alarms (including execution timers/information destruction) and makes all enemies forget about you, resuming their normal activities. Blinds enemies within 10/15/20/25 meters of you for 5/6/7/8 seconds. Stats Health: 100 Shield: 100 Armor: 30 Speed: 1.2 Power: 125 Edited September 13, 2015 by Barges Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MokutoBunshi Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 (edited) LOVE IT LOVE IT LOVE IT!!! PLEASE LET THIS BE A FRAME WE GET IN THIS "NINJA" GAME PLEASE! Edit: Also, anyone who wants to talk about broken AI or stealth can do so here: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/448693-stealth-and-ai-system-broken-beyond-belief/ ]\'[okuto Bunshi Peace Out. Edited September 28, 2015 by MokutoBunshi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MokutoBunshi Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 You got yourself an upvote and a follow. +1! And is he a male? I hope so, that would be cool... it looks like a guy. Can you tell I like using male warframes? I just guess I like them due to always making male avatars in other games >.> ]\'[ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barges Posted September 13, 2015 Author Share Posted September 13, 2015 You got yourself an upvote and a follow. +1! And is he a male? I hope so, that would be cool... it looks like a guy. Can you tell I like using male warframes? I just guess I like them due to always making male avatars in other games >.>Yeah, it's supposed to be male. Thanks for the positive feedback! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhekemi Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 Some crossover here into my Neuron concept idea, but here's an upvote! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevlar5 Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 This is an amazing idea, but Phantom sure will make Ash and Loki jealous when it comes to stealth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MokutoBunshi Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 This is an amazing idea, but Phantom sure will make Ash and Loki jealous when it comes to stealth. Ash is an assasin, loki is a manipulator, FOR ONCE we get a ninja (ash, you were darn close but the "loki master race" can out do you in stealth and speed). ]\'[ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevlar5 Posted September 26, 2015 Share Posted September 26, 2015 (edited) Ash is an assasin, loki is a manipulator, FOR ONCE we get a ninja (ash, you were darn close but the "loki master race" can out do you in stealth and speed). ]\'[ Yay, another blatant Loki fan comment. Quit being rude and just saying, "Well, Loki is better than Ash" They have a COMPLETELY different set of abilities. Yes, Ash is an assassin. That's the way he kills everything. Yes, Loki is a manipulator. He kills his targets with trickery. If you are saying Loki is a better Ninja than Ash, you are probably just one of those guys running through maps invisible all the time and calling it "stealth" You like Loki better than Ash? Don't be replying to someone saying, "Well, Loki is better" when it's completely irrelevant. Edited September 26, 2015 by Kevlar5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhekemi Posted September 26, 2015 Share Posted September 26, 2015 Yeah. Seriously. They're space ninjas...ninjas...in mother effing space...what is the realistic yardstick we are using to measure their "true" ninja qualities? Secondly, we can have more than one kind of ninja, and more than one kind of stealth frame. Barges, keep developing your Phantom frame. It's got plenty of potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MokutoBunshi Posted September 26, 2015 Share Posted September 26, 2015 Yay, another blatant Loki fan comment. Quit being rude and just saying, "Well, Loki is better than Ash" They have a COMPLETELY different set of abilities. Yes, Ash is an assassin. That's the way he kills everything. Yes, Loki is a manipulator. He kills his targets with trickery. If you are saying Loki is a better Ninja than Ash, you are probably just one of those guys running through maps invisible all the time and calling it "stealth" You like Loki better than Ash? Don't be replying to someone saying, "Well, Loki is better" when it's completely irrelevant. Read my quote again. I said: "Ash is an assasin, loki is a manipulator, FOR ONCE we get a ninja [i AM TALKING ABOUT THE PHANTOM WARFRAME NOT LOKI! (I happen to like ash MORE than loki)] (ash, you were darn close but the "loki master race" can out do you in stealth and speed). ]\'[" I mean for once we get a ninja not an assasin and NOT a manipulator. ]\'[okuto Bunshi Peace Out. P.S. I use limbo for my stealth anyways :P ]\'[ Yeah. Seriously. They're space ninjas...ninjas...in mother effing space...what is the realistic yardstick we are using to measure their "true" ninja qualities? Secondly, we can have more than one kind of ninja, and more than one kind of stealth frame. Barges, keep developing your Phantom frame. It's got plenty of potential. Please do! ]\'[ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevlar5 Posted September 26, 2015 Share Posted September 26, 2015 (edited) Read my quote again. I said: "Ash is an assasin, loki is a manipulator, FOR ONCE we get a ninja [i AM TALKING ABOUT THE PHANTOM WARFRAME NOT LOKI! (I happen to like ash MORE than loki)] (ash, you were darn close but the "loki master race" can out do you in stealth and speed). ]\'[" I mean for once we get a ninja not an assasin and NOT a manipulator. ]\'[okuto Bunshi Peace Out. P.S. I use limbo for my stealth anyways :P ]\'[ Please do! ]\'[ (ash, you were darn close but the "loki master race" can out do you in stealth and speed). Really, why do you even say that out of nowhere? "I like cake" "Well. Loki is better than Ash! HAAHAUHAUH ASH IS MORE USELESS THAN EMBER" Edited September 27, 2015 by Kevlar5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceSheepie Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 I really like his abilities.. but since we have two male stealthers it would be nice to maybe have a girl? :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehtael7 Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 (edited) The problem with the second ability is how the AI currently behave, that would count as stealth being broken. While Facade is a cool idea, I'm not sure the game is geared to handle that kind of interaction. Maybe the AI, but laser grids, scanners, cameras, arc traps, etc might be odd, and I'm not sure the AI are well equipped to handle seeing an ally do parkour and think something of it. The fourth ability is good, but this frame has some major problems. It's NOT equipped for squad play. It's NOT equipped for survival. It's NOT equipped for defense. It's NOT equipped for mobile defense. It's NOT equipped for interception. It's NOT equipped for hijack. A frame that's only good at Extermination, Deception, Rescue and Spy is not a good frame. You need to understand that Warframe is NOT a stealth game. It seems to think it is, but it isn't. It has stealth elements, but full-frontal combat will always be a crucial feature of the game. Why else would we be armed with miniguns, grenade launchers, massive shotguns, machine pistols and explosive hammers? Edited September 27, 2015 by Rehtael7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)abb12355 Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 All I want is a rubber frame :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MokutoBunshi Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 Really, why do you even say that out of nowhere? "I like cake" "Well. Loki is better than Ash! HAAHAUHAUH ASH IS MORE USELESS THAN EMBER" If you look at the whole context I am saying ash would be the ninja except what people call the "loki master race" has better speed and stealth and since THIS warframe has even BETTER ninja skills ash can be the assasin, loki can be the manipulator and THIS can be the ninja. "Ash is an assasin, loki is a manipulator, FOR ONCE we get a ninja (ash, you were darn close but the "loki master race" can out do you in stealth and speed)." That underlined portion is me comparing phantom and ash. And I said ash is the better assasin.... and that loki is a manipulator. In order of my favourite frames it goes like this: #1Limbo #2Phantom #3Ash #4Loki Get it now? I wanna talk more about the warframe, not defend my self like this. ]\'[ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MokutoBunshi Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 (edited) I really like his abilities.. but since we have two male stealthers it would be nice to maybe have a girl? :) We do have banshee and in the codex she is classified as a frame that can do stealth. The problem with the second ability is how the AI currently behave, that would count as stealth being broken. While Facade is a cool idea, I'm not sure the game is geared to handle that kind of interaction. Maybe the AI, but laser grids, scanners, cameras, arc traps, etc might be odd, and I'm not sure the AI are well equipped to handle seeing an ally do parkour and think something of it. The fourth ability is good, but this frame has some major problems. It's NOT equipped for squad play. It's NOT equipped for survival. It's NOT equipped for defense. It's NOT equipped for mobile defense. It's NOT equipped for interception. It's NOT equipped for hijack. A frame that's only good at Extermination, Deception, Rescue and Spy is not a good frame. You need to understand that Warframe is NOT a stealth game. It seems to think it is, but it isn't. It has stealth elements, but full-frontal combat will always be a crucial feature of the game. Why else would we be armed with miniguns, grenade launchers, massive shotguns, machine pistols and explosive hammers? Which is so sad... ]\'[ Edited September 27, 2015 by MokutoBunshi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhekemi Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 (edited) The problem with the second ability is how the AI currently behave, that would count as stealth being broken. Maybe. Implementation of this would require new code. As a fan of this kind of stealth mechanic (it was part of my stealth frame's original ability set, used to be her #1 when I drafted her on paper), I still like the idea of using diversonary sound tactics. I think it could work if there's an OFF/ON/OFF method: Enemies hear a sound, and rush over as they normally do once alerted, if no player is present, they go back to their un-alerted state. Or once they rush over the ability's second phase kicks in and and makes them return to an un-alerted state. While Facade is a cool idea, I'm not sure the game is geared to handle that kind of interaction. Maybe the AI, but laser grids, scanners, cameras, arc traps, etc might be odd, and I'm not sure the AI are well equipped to handle seeing an ally do parkour and think something of it. Again, disguising as an enemy and having them think nothing of it is a stealth mechanic I support. Had it in mind for a while, but added it as an augment instead of a main ability. I don't know about the fixed-location security measures, but the AI is already equipped with all it needs in order to ignore Tenno: invasion missions. When the ability is active, the enemies will be instructed to ignore Tenno just as they do in invasions where they are on the same side. On the rest I agree. Warframe isn't a stealth game. That said, this is solved if Phantom is beefed up a bit on offense, or what to do in case S#&$ hits the fan in other mission types. Loki has versatility and Phantom will need it, too. Why don't you give him some suggestions? Edited September 27, 2015 by Rhekemi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akiryx Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 It is pretty neat, but I think for right now, especially considering the new frame (Wukong) that will be coming soon, that we'll probably have our fill of stealth for a while. Aside from that I'll be honest, I've seen a few other ideas for stealth/darkness type frames that seem to be similar to this, but maybe a bit more fleshed out. https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/454863-warframe-concept-eidolon-the-nightmare-frame-format-and-skill-changes-0702/ comes to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehtael7 Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 Maybe. Implementation of this would require new code. As a fan of this kind of stealth mechanic (it was part of my stealth frame's original ability set, used to be her #1 when I drafted her on paper), I still like the idea of using diversonary sound tactics. I think it could work if there's an OFF/ON/OFF method: Enemies hear a sound, and rush over as they normally do once alerted, if no player is present, they go back to their un-alerted state. Or once they rush over the ability's second phase kicks in and and makes them return to an un-alerted state. Again, disguising as an enemy and having them think nothing of it is a stealth mechanic I support. Had it in mind for a while, but added it as an augment instead of a main ability. I don't know about the fixed-location security measures, but the AI is already equipped with all it needs in order to ignore Tenno: invasion missions. When the ability is active, the enemies will be instructed to ignore Tenno just as they do in invasions where they are on the same side. On the rest I agree. Warframe isn't a stealth game. That said, this is solved if Phantom is beefed up a bit on offense, or what to do in case S#&$ hits the fan in other mission types. Loki has versatility and Phantom will need it, too. Why don't you give him some suggestions? The idea itself is flawed. The more suggestions I make on how to make it combat-appropriate, the more it detracts from the intent of the "pure stealth" frame, and would just become another Loki or Ash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhekemi Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 (edited) Maybe. Or maybe it's stealth in Warframe that is flawed, as many topics have been created to bemoan the fact. The game's mechanics don't currently support proper stealth play-throughs, and most game modes flat out don't support stealth. Because stealth is so poor in the game, I believe it will be worked on in future, if not overhauled. Many games have done this (originally neglected stealth in favor of assault, only to rework stealth later on). There are only so many play styles in FPS/TPS/TPS+melee, and stealth is one of the main ones. I do agree that trying to make it combat-appropriate destroys what the frame's meant to accomplish. But survival (in missions) and viability in the game itself is important. DE isn't going to make a pure stealth frame if it has no other use. So, there's no other way for Phantom (or new stealth frames) to be viable. Many a new idea has undergone changes to suit the game. Phantom should be no different. (I still don't think has to necessarily make Phantom another Ash or Loki, but it's a valid point.) Edited September 27, 2015 by Rhekemi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehtael7 Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 I absolutely agree that the current stealth system is awful, but you can see it in the design of the majority of frames, weapons, companions and missions/ level designs, the game focuses VERY heavily on frontal combat. For a frame like this to exist in the proper context, it would require MASSIVE overhauls to Warframe that would basically result in a Warframe spin-off. I'm really not opposed to the idea of a stealth character/ playstyle, but it doesn't adequately reward the player. You need kills to get loot to get stronger to progress. Running through a mission undetected, while a cool challenge, doesn't offer any actual benefit with the Warframe that we know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhekemi Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 True. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)RIOTx420 Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 You got my vote, that sounds like a really fun frame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehtael7 Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 You know what? If this frame were included as a side-mission, that would be great. Imagine BEING the "lone Tenno Operative" and trolling the other tenno with Single Orokin cells and Trios of Silver cores. In all seriousness, if you were given this frame for select single-player missions, that would be cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MokutoBunshi Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 Maybe. Implementation of this would require new code. As a fan of this kind of stealth mechanic (it was part of my stealth frame's original ability set, used to be her #1 when I drafted her on paper), I still like the idea of using diversonary sound tactics. I think it could work if there's an OFF/ON/OFF method: Enemies hear a sound, and rush over as they normally do once alerted, if no player is present, they go back to their un-alerted state. Or once they rush over the ability's second phase kicks in and and makes them return to an un-alerted state. Again, disguising as an enemy and having them think nothing of it is a stealth mechanic I support. Had it in mind for a while, but added it as an augment instead of a main ability. I don't know about the fixed-location security measures, but the AI is already equipped with all it needs in order to ignore Tenno: invasion missions. When the ability is active, the enemies will be instructed to ignore Tenno just as they do in invasions where they are on the same side. On the rest I agree. Warframe isn't a stealth game. That said, this is solved if Phantom is beefed up a bit on offense, or what to do in case S#&$ hits the fan in other mission types. Loki has versatility and Phantom will need it, too. Why don't you give him some suggestions? My only suggestion... keep the original concept male. Iron mans suit was used on a woman in the movie... it still looked like a warsuit and a male one at that. ]\'[ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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