I Love De, But Maybe The Community Isn't Bigger Because Of 1 Simple Thing...

[Stone772]

Thanks DE for such a great game.

 

I think the majority of the fanbase knows how much effort you guys put into Warframe. When servers were down for a bit 2 days ago, instead of only writing on the forums "Yeah, we had some downtime," you sent the players free goodies as "compensation" when you literally didn't have to. It's appreciated and it makes the players feel as though you're very dedicated at making everything right.

 

I'm sure you guys are reading loads of the feedback letters, and getting 100 daily complaints of "Nerf this," etc. I personally think the Dojos need a little bit more love, but it's not like I can complain about the game when you guys work hard and show that you care. The community can see the effort you guys put in Warframe, and it is very appreciated.

 

So if you guys are making grand efforts and end up with a game like Warframe that deserves way more players, why aren't there more people? I've tried to introduce friends to the game so we may play it together, but they encountered the same hurdle I encountered when I started playing with my first account in the early beta: the early grind is slow. Now this isn't a complaint, see it more as an observation, as constructive criticism. When you're starting off, the credits you can work with are very limited, and building anything new is very intimidating because you don't want to waste resources or credits, and you have very little of them. Getting your first set of gear after your MK-1 weapons and your starting Warframe will take a while and feel rewarding when you get it, but the time it takes to gather more resources for that, and again get another set of stuff, or just more weapons, feels too slow. And that makes the game feel repetitive. Getting Platinum can grant you the resources to acquire loads of more stuff you might want, along with desired currency to trade for things like mods that you need but can't access yet. The thing is, if players are bored in the early game, they won't feel like investing to get Platinum, because they haven't gotten to the part of Warframe where it gets insanely fun.

 

And it does get insanely fun when you have strong gear, you're starting to juice up your stuff with reactors/catalysts and forma. No game gets more intense than Warframe in late defense or survival; most players know the feeling. But a lot of those potential players don't get to that point because unless you have someone to guide you, to do missions with, to ask what he should/shouldn't build, it's slow - and even with such a "guide", it still feels slow - and that makes the game feel repetitive (at the start). I'm not sure how to solve this, but giving new players more, or giving them a free weapon or so on when they reach a certain point, or perhaps an affinity/credit boost when they beat the tutorial missions... Such things might help get players to the point where they realise how crazy of a game Warframe is. I'm not sure what would be the ideal solution, but I know the issue has discouraged many players. I have friends who I've talked to about Warframe, and they say "Yeah I know the game, I tried it, but I got bored and stopped." This is the reason why.

 

You guys are doing it right, though. The new tutorial missions, the new world maps, and the way the game flows now has come such a long way from beta. But by making the game a little faster - and I don't mean easier - to climb would make it way more inviting for new players who try it out. Many people may disagree with me on this. Say whatever you like. The issue is just *there*. It's not just coming from my mouth, but from other locals I know who've tried it, and those I've tried to introduce to the game. I just remember not getting far when I first made this second account of mine because I got bored of the game; same as when I had made my first account but lost it due to e-mail issues.

 

When you start getting more stuff, more reactors, etc, the game gets really fun. But you should interest players in buying Platinum after the early grind; make it the most attractive then, because that's when people will be willing to commit cash to a free game: when they confirm it's fun. Most new players won't see the worth in investing in a game they are starting to find boring. Warframe itself isn't boring, but the early grind is simply repetitive because it's slow, especially compared to when you start getting strong gear. And this is according to my memory, and the people I've had try out the game. I think if this little hurdle is evened out, the community could flourish. I'm not saying it makes it impossible to flourish - I'm here now after all, and we keep getting new players - but how many accounts do we have stuck in rank 3 that just don't play any more? "This happens in every game," the Masters of Disagreement will claim. Sure. It happens in loads of boring and fun games. But many such cases would never happen if this hurdle is evened out. Give more new players that speed rush early, and the new players won't leave, I'll have more people to play with, and the community will bloom from there.

Edited September 15, 2015 by Stone772

[Brandr_]

Move on . just another "I know how Warframe could be better, and in my infinite wisdom, and charity, I'm going to tell DE how to do it, when in reality it's a stupid idea about making people spend money"

 

People like not having to spend money on the game, people like feeling like they aren't being goaded into buying money. I've left so many games just because they did exactly what you're telling DE to do.

 

The community isn't bigger fro one reason, and it isn't your reason.

 

It isn't bigger because people aren't interested in the game, an you're idea would only make it worse

[Megakruemel]

I introduce friends to warframe here and there but the problem i always get is, if they want a new warframe besides the starter one. I ended up grinding for a valkyr frame with a friend and it took us quit a while. Meanwhile she is now a proud owner of every part x7 or more except for the helmet she still does not have.

On a different note- i helped a friend grind for a frost frame and we ended up with the chassis missing after about 10 tries.

It is always the same problem- we grind way more than usual and end up with parts we will never need. Then they start calling this game boring and quit.

 

Thanks Obama Rng.

[Deshiel]

So you want to be that level 1 guy with big glowy swords.

 

One of the Post RF Online servers did this and it was stupid as hell. They gave the player the edgiest and the coolest looking gear from the beginning to make the grind easier & fast and the players eventualy became frustrated that nothing they aquired from thier first level onward was million times uglier or worse in stats than thier starter equipment. 

[YasaiTsume]

Whats the point of acting all "I love DE but" if yur gonna complain right after the first line.

[Stone772]

Move on . just another "I know how Warframe could be better, and in my infinite wisdom, and charity, I'm going to tell DE how to do it, when in reality it's a stupid idea about making people spend money"

 

People like not having to spend money on the game, people like feeling like they aren't being goaded into buying money. I've left so many games just because they did exactly what you're telling DE to do.

 

The community isn't bigger fro one reason, and it isn't your reason.

 

It isn't bigger because people aren't interested in the game, an you're idea would only make it worse

 

You're completely misunderstanding what I'm trying to point out. Right now, the game early is slow, so DE uses that to get people to buy Platinum to move up quickly. I'm just saying that doesn't work if people aren't interested in the game, because the early grind is slow - and if it's slow and you don't have much to work with, it gets repetitive.

 

So I'm saying "DE still needs to make money and sell plat, but new players who get bored won't be buying until they see potential in the game, and they most probably won't see that until they get further. So help them get further, and then the prospect to spend money on it will be more attractive." The game wouldn't become pay-to-win, pay-to-play, or anything like what you fear. Just, more players = more people who will buy Platinum. The people who would spend money on games they like, people such as myself, would just end up spending money on it because they see the game is fun, instead of dropping it out of boredom. I hope you got what I meant through this.

 

Cheers

Edited September 15, 2015 by Stone772

[Stone772]

Whats the point of acting all "I love DE but" if yur gonna complain right after the first line.

 

Like I said, it's not a complaint, it's constructive criticism, it's an observation about something that's stopping lots of new players from getting beyond the starting point. 

 

If I was complaining you'd hear me going "Omg DE nerf this, omg DE these glitches, omg DE why were the servers down". I'm honest in all I said. I love the developers and I don't mind about the glitches or lack of content in certain areas that much because I know they're making efforts. I just pointed out something that could help bring more people to Warframe. If you see that as a complaint, then I'm not sure how to put it for you :/

I introduce friends to warframe here and there but the problem i always get is, if they want a new warframe besides the starter one. I ended up grinding for a valkyr frame with a friend and it took us quit a while. Meanwhile she is now a proud owner of every part x7 or more except for the helmet she still does not have.

On a different note- i helped a friend grind for a frost frame and we ended up with the chassis missing after about 10 tries.

It is always the same problem- we grind way more than usual and end up with parts we will never need. Then they start calling this game boring and quit.

 

Thanks Obama Rng.

 

I agree.

And they get bored because they have little gear to vary the gameplay, and because the grind is slow.

 

For all the other veteran players who can't relate to this issue, here's yet another player ^ who knows people who encountered the same problem. 

[Stone772]

So you want to be that level 1 guy with big glowy swords.

 

One of the Post RF Online servers did this and it was stupid as hell. They gave the player the edgiest and the coolest looking gear from the beginning to make the grind easier & fast and the players eventualy became frustrated that nothing they aquired from thier first level onward was million times uglier or worse in stats than thier starter equipment. 

 

So you're one of those people who jump on people and make assumptions? I never said I wanted to start the game with a maxed potatoe'd weapons with 6 forma on it. I'm just saying, give the players faster access to more gear to foster game interest. That doesn't mean they're getting color pallets or weapons skins or syandanas. Just more variety. That's all the game needs early to keep players interested and get to the really fun part of Warframe.

[atom]

i agree that the grind is pretty hard on new players and i like your idea about giving them free 3-7day boosters and maybe a potato too. 

however, i think that you can pretty much tell if you like the game pretty early on and you are in now way forced to spend a single dime but if you like the game you should support it's development.

if players get bored with the game early on i don't think it's because of the grind. i started with open beta when the grind was much worse in certain aspects and the new player experience null compared to what we have now. i loved the game instantly and it's still burning hot

[Stone772]

i agree that the grind is pretty hard on new players and i like your idea about giving them free 3-7day boosters and maybe a potato too. 

however, i think that you can pretty much tell if you like the game pretty early on and you are in now way forced to spend a single dime but if you like the game you should support it's development.

if players get bored with the game early on i don't think it's because of the grind. i started with open beta when the grind was much worse in certain aspects and the new player experience null compared to what we have now. i loved the game instantly and it's still burning hot

 

I strongly agree with what you're saying, that goes for every game.

 

But I'm just sharing my own experience with the game, and the people I know that I had them try it out didn't get into it for the same reason, and those I know that had tried it in the past stopped for the same reason. If it's affecting myself, those I know that try it, and some players other people from the community know (there was one such person above), then maybe it's a repeating pattern that deserves to be looked at in detail.

 

Affinity boost and a potato would greatly help, I agree. But I don't feel like that would be quite enough. I'm not here proposing a solution though, just bringing an issue encountered by many - including myself - to light :)

 

Cheers

[RoninJed]

I think the reason why warframe isn't more popular is because it's f2p and most people seem to treat these type of games the same way. They will play it for free and get upset about how slow things are going all while thinking it's not worth investing in because it's f2p lol. Then they see or hear it's in beta still and say forget this. That and you have a game like Destiny which people think Warframe copied off because they don't know any better but Destiny looks shiny and new and isn't f2p. I'm not saying DE needs to change from f2p but maybe put some money down on advertising...hell I saw a ad for smite the other day. Warframe ranks higher then it any given day on steam stats. Best advice I would give to new players is to hope for a 50 (or if real lucky) 75% off platinum sign in reward then spend 50 bucks. Warframe right now is at least worth the average 50 to 60 dollar game price. I will admit I have never been a fan of f2p until I played Warframe ;)

[MumblesMcphatty]

Still F2P - still requires a constant revolving door of players to survive - retention is secondary to that - always.

Those who stick around longer may spend more money eventually but that's usually quite rare compared to the early impulse spenders.

Besides - have you actually looked at the Steam numbers? Your anecdotal experience aside - the numbers point to DE not needing your advice in this department.

[YasaiTsume]

At the very least, expand the tutorial and for example, when I played Tera, they gave Avatar Weapons that increased with the level of the player.

If Warframe were to go with this method as well, a good start would be offering weapons to choose for every MR, up til MR6 where Soma becomes a thing and people can actually start standing on their own alongside most higher tier players.

I have always recommended new players to, if they wish to rush to the mid tier gaming community level, to at least build Dual Zorens as crits carry hard in the early game. Another such weapon is the Grakata. I would tell them to avoid things like Kama and such as they require hard to farm stances to actually be worth using. I always think of Alert weapons (Dark Sword Dark Dagger etc) as novelty weapons and I don't see a reason why new players should go after them immediately as those too require modding to shine.

 

Rhino should also be moved up to the Starter Frame lineup as most players discover Rhino and just hug it like daddy until they realise Rhino Prime exists, then finally wake up and find out other frames are also pretty good too. Mag is a good starter frame but imo, the current state she is in, she is only good for Corpus Genocide. 

DE might not have fleshed out how on earth they were going to ease new players into a game, but making some sort of changes should be a good start.

Starting with moving Rhino to the Starter Frame lineup.

[(XBOX)ChantingSheep]

I smell what you're stepping in, OP. I do think it would be a little better for new players if there was some kind of "soft grind" in the beginning, decent weapons or frames that are a bit easier to get, that sort of thing. However, I've helped a lot of new players, and I think the pool of 'on the fence' types who would choose to stay with the game because of a change like that would be pretty small. Similar to what ..atom.. alluded to, I think most people know pretty early on whether they like the game or not, regardless of the things they have access to.

As a matter of fact, I feel like a lot of people quit because they actually have access to TOO MUCH right away. I see a lot of players who have only been playing a couple weeks or so already farming up endgame weapons and/or prime parts, then quickly getting bored because a-the nodes they have access to are too easy with their new gear, and b-they don't have much reason to go after or try for anything else. Look around at some of the new player posts, you'll see quite a few examples of new players asking something like "How do I get Soma Prime?", and the majority of the feedback from veterans is akin to "Just wait. Getting it now will ruin the experience for you." I feel like a more relevant and structured MR system could help with that, but that's another topic and a whole other can of worms.

On the whole, I think most people know pretty quick if WF is a game for them or not, and I don't think accelerating their progression, even a little, is going to cause a large number of people to stay that otherwise wouldn't.

[KirukaChan]

When I first started playing (sometime between the release of Nova and Nekros), the big factor that made me stay despite the huge grindwalls was that my favorite guy started playing at exactly the same time I did, and we did everything together. Warframe is a lot more fun when you have someone besides pugs to play with.

 

The only complaint I have about the current new player experience that DE could realistically do something about, is adding the three removed Mk-1 weapons back into the starting quest. Removing them was silly, especially since the player can pick up and try all three options for primary, secondary and melee before continuing the mission.

[YasaiTsume]

When I first started playing (sometime between the release of Nova and Nekros), the big factor that made me stay despite the huge grindwalls was that my favorite guy started playing at exactly the same time I did, and we did everything together. Warframe is a lot more fun when you have someone besides pugs to play with.

 

The only complaint I have about the current new player experience that DE could realistically do something about, is adding the three removed Mk-1 weapons back into the starting quest. Removing them was silly, especially since the player can pick up and try all three options for primary, secondary and melee before continuing the mission.

Reading this makes me want to suggest to DE to make Guides of the Lotus actual damn Guides and partner them up with a subject until a certain MR. LOLOLOLOLOL

[Stone772]

Still F2P - still requires a constant revolving door of players to survive - retention is secondary to that - always.

Those who stick around longer may spend more money eventually but that's usually quite rare compared to the early impulse spenders.

Besides - have you actually looked at the Steam numbers? Your anecdotal experience aside - the numbers point to DE not needing your advice in this department.

 

I hate to admit it, but you have a strong point. Still, I'd like there to be more players :/

[Stone772]

I smell what you're stepping in, OP. I do think it would be a little better for new players if there was some kind of "soft grind" in the beginning, decent weapons or frames that are a bit easier to get, that sort of thing. However, I've helped a lot of new players, and I think the pool of 'on the fence' types who would choose to stay with the game because of a change like that would be pretty small. Similar to what ..atom.. alluded to, I think most people know pretty early on whether they like the game or not, regardless of the things they have access to.

As a matter of fact, I feel like a lot of people quit because they actually have access to TOO MUCH right away. I see a lot of players who have only been playing a couple weeks or so already farming up endgame weapons and/or prime parts, then quickly getting bored because a-the nodes they have access to are too easy with their new gear, and b-they don't have much reason to go after or try for anything else. Look around at some of the new player posts, you'll see quite a few examples of new players asking something like "How do I get Soma Prime?", and the majority of the feedback from veterans is akin to "Just wait. Getting it now will ruin the experience for you." I feel like a more relevant and structured MR system could help with that, but that's another topic and a whole other can of worms.

On the whole, I think most people know pretty quick if WF is a game for them or not, and I don't think accelerating their progression, even a little, is going to cause a large number of people to stay that otherwise wouldn't.

 

I can relate to what you mean. 

 

Some games, when you use cheats and so on, and obtain the strongest gear really fast, it gets boring because there's nothing else to do. I completely agree with you on those points. But we still have players who quit because it gets repetitive, and helping just getting out of that could make them realise they like the game. Yes, some people won't like the game at all, but some are like "This would take forever" and they just quit cause they don't think it's worth it. You may claim the portion of people who think that way is small, but I may think it's big, and some might think it's even. At the end of the day we don't have statistics to look at, and personally what I've been talking about reflects 100% of the feedback I've received from my big circle of friends. 

 

But what you're saying is also totally true. The help new players would ideally get, though, wouldn't put them way ahead. It would just be that little push that gives them more resources, and thus, a wider arsenal and more variety. That's all early game needs imo. Otherwise I completely agree with you, leaving out the "this portion of players wouldn't care" when we have no stats to work with.

 

Cheers

[unknow99]

What I often hear is :

 

- reputation of Warfarm(it's in the game's DNA, so changing this is really hard for them I guess)

 

- Free-to-play first impression

 

- repetitiveness. (they're reworking things,but it takes a lot of time, more time as more content is created)

[shoopypit]

i dont taxi new players to late levels to get a new war frame. ill help them beat missions to get to the planet. but taxi-ing is always a bad idea. especially when they're on their starting equipment, and the equipment isnt even lvl 30 yet. it's not worth the time or hassle. once they've built their rhino and karak and cronus and seer, with some leveled mods, and are on jupiter, maybe then ill taxi them places. but when they're in their proverbial WF diapers, taxi manning is a terrible way to intro players