Let's Talk Trinity

[DelialFallen]

It's not just convenience. It's literally game changing. Nekros/hydroid and whoever else simply causes energy orbs to spawn and it's still easy to run out of energy even in these situations where as trinity provides a consistent supply of energy all through out.

 

And here we differ in opinion and I reiterate about dropping energy plates.  It is possible and cheap to drop several energy plates or in bulk, anywhere on the game map when energy is scarce. As doing so is possible, it is reasonable to conclude Trinity's energy ability does not, as has been suggested in this thread for some time now, create a new situation wherein energy becomes plentiful.  Therefore, it is also reasonable to conclude what she does is facilitate it.  I opine that facilitating energy return does not sufficiently alter gameplay to warrant a revision.

Edited October 13, 2015 by DelialFallen

[Trvldl]

Why do you want a support frame to be godlike as a solo frame as well? 

 

Also calling people dumb is not exactly constructive. 

You skipped my replies on page 11

 

As for being godlike in solo mission, please, post a video of you going solo survival with godlike trinity for 2 hours at least, or you are spouting nonsence.

Edited October 13, 2015 by Trvldl

[izzatuw]

Why do you want a support frame to be godlike as a solo frame as well?

Also calling people dumb is not exactly constructive.

Calling someone's idea dumb =/= Calling you dumb.

You could be the smartest person in the world but someone will call you out if you don't have the smartest idea.

*facepalm*

Find me one logical reason why a caster should not regain energy from a cast?

What about Loki? With an invis build you can practically be invisible forever. With Hushed Invis you will hardly be noticed, if not, ever.

[Kolos1001]

You skipped my replies on page 11

 

As for being godlike in solo mission, please, post a video of you going solo survival with godlike trinity for 2 hours at least, or you are spouting nonsence.

Again the game is not balanced around how long you can go in solo survival. It's just not. Stop using that as the guideline for what's OP. 

 

Calling someone's idea dumb =/= Calling you dumb.

You could be the smartest person in the world but someone will call you out if you don't have the smartest idea.

*facepalm*

Find me one logical reason why a caster should not regain energy from a cast?

What about Loki? With an invis build you can practically be invisible forever. With Hushed Invis you will hardly be noticed, if not, ever.

Then go make a loki thread. I thought you said you weren't going to purposely derail the topic. 

[Unholyrequiem]

In the event that DE want to change the way in which players use mechanics in this game such as their willful use of spamming powerful abilities, DE will have to change 3 things:

 

 

Trinity

Energy restores

Power cost/power efficiency

 

 

It's really simple. Of course i disagree that changing trinity alone will achieve anything but I highly disagree with her position not being game changing. 

[Trvldl]

What word godlike even means then if trinity does not shine in any mission type solo? Did you mis-use it? Game is not built around having the most energy income or taking less damage, it is built around killing or moving faster.

[DelialFallen]

In the event that DE want to change the way in which players use mechanics in this game such as their willful use of spamming powerful abilities, DE will have to change 3 things:

 

 

Trinity

Energy restores

Power cost/power efficiency

 

 

It's really simple. Of course i disagree that changing trinity alone will achieve anything but I highly disagree with her position not being game changing. 

 

That is a topic for another thread, then: one regarding energy in the game.  I encourage you to discuss the mechanics of energy there.

Edited October 13, 2015 by DelialFallen

[izzatuw]

Again the game is not balanced around how long you can go in solo survival. It's just not. Stop using that as the guideline for what's OP.

Then go make a loki thread. I thought you said you weren't going to purposely derail the topic.

Dude, you used raids as a guideline but that's fair? You tried to bring in 2 hour survival. So if it goes against your argument you're gonna drop the argument?

I have noticed you never actually answer a person's question, you try to word play around the answer implying that you know you don't have a good argument yet you think you do.

Also, I really really would like to know why you think Valkyr's Hysteria is more balanced than Trinity's Blessing...

[Unholyrequiem]

That is a topic for another thread, then: one regarding energy in the game.  I encourage you to discuss the mechanics of energy there.

What do you mean? This is the exact reason they want it nerfed. Isn't that like blatantly obvious? The two aren't mutually exclusive.

Edited October 13, 2015 by Unholyrequiem

[izzatuw]

What word godlike even means then if trinity does not shine in any mission type solo? Did you mis-use it? Game is not built around having the most energy income or taking less damage, it is built around killing or moving faster.

Arguably in missions like Survival Valkyr in solo is a lot more OP. There is literally no way for you to die. Valkyr shares the same weaknesses as Trinity, that lacking any real CC.

[DelialFallen]

What do you mean? This is the exact reason they want it nerfed. Isn't that like blatantly obvious? The two aren't mutually exclusive.

 

If the issue is with energy, then the issue is with that first and foremost and not with a frame's toolkit making use of or manipulating it.  In such a case, I'm of the opinion it would be more constructive to discuss the particularities of that instead of singling out a symptom of the underlying issue.  In the meantime, this thread can concern itself on the topic of Trinity.

[Trvldl]

Checked youtube, same person did solo runs on T4S, as valk he scored 1:56 and Trin has even less than melee chroma or excalibur. 

[Unholyrequiem]

If the issue is with energy, then the issue is with that first and foremost and not with a frame's toolkit making use of or manipulating it.  In such a case, I'm of the opinion it would be more constructive to discuss the particularities of that instead of singling out a symptom of the underlying issue.  In the meantime, this thread can concern itself on the topic of Trinity.

Though of course it affects every frame, the distribution of energy and its manipulation. Trinity is not merely an underlying symptom but part of causation. Thus it's relevant to the discussion at hand as it is the exact reason people want Trinity nerfed. The only issue as far as I'm aware that's been presented is Trinity's ability to recover energy for her entire team and not her ability to create overshields, take damage reduction, restore health pools, kill enemies using links etc.

Edited October 13, 2015 by Unholyrequiem

[izzatuw]

Checked youtube, same person did solo runs on T4S, as valk he scored 1:56 and Trin has even less than melee chroma or excalibur.

Trinity arguably is the weakest in solo there imo.

Excalibur has EB which has autoblock, he has Radial Blind.

Valkyr has Ripline which is arguably good mobility.

Her 2nd buffs melee DPS and team armor buff.

Her 3rd opens enemies to finishers.

Her 4th has innate lifesteal and invulnerability.

[izzatuw]

Note:

Link's chance to kill enemies is passive at most. No one really relies on it to kill unless you're just messing around.

[Trvldl]

Trinity arguably is the weakest in solo there imo.

Excalibur has EB which has autoblock, he has Radial Blind.

Valkyr has Ripline which is arguably good mobility.

Her 2nd buffs melee DPS and team armor buff.

Her 3rd opens enemies to finishers.

Her 4th has innate lifesteal and invulnerability.

Exactly, and any other mission will either require some sort of aoe, movememnt speed, cc or stealth utility — all of which Trinity doesn't have. She is only shining with team around, therefore her supporting ability should be at top spot among frames.

 

Aoe spam is not happening because we are allowed to but because we are encouraged to do so by reward system, mission structure and infinite scaling. Nerfing ability will not adress any of these flaws, we will just shift to other abilities more and play more other mission types to maintain high reward to time spent ratio.

Edited October 13, 2015 by Trvldl

[Kolos1001]

Game is not balanced around 2 hours into a solo survival. Idk how many times I have to say it. 

[Unholyrequiem]

Trinity arguably is the weakest in solo there imo.

Excalibur has EB which has autoblock, he has Radial Blind.

Valkyr has Ripline which is arguably good mobility.

Her 2nd buffs melee DPS and team armor buff.

Her 3rd opens enemies to finishers.

Her 4th has innate lifesteal and invulnerability.

To be fair, having an overshield and damage reduction really does help though it is vastly outshined by Valkyr's invulnerability and Excalibur's exalted blade.

Edited October 13, 2015 by Unholyrequiem

[izzatuw]

To be fair, having an overshield and damage reduction really does help though it is vastly outshined by Valkyr's invulnerability and Excalibur's exalted blade.

Valkyr has 600 base shields. Her 2nd adds more armor on top of that.

Overshields requires you to get an augment, not innate.

And I personally have been using Overshield augment and I gain like 200 extra overshields per cast, not tick. Not even at 15 minutes in T4S even 1K extra shields gets destroyed in 5 seconds.

[Kolos1001]

Valkyr has 600 base shields. Her 2nd adds more armor on top of that.

Overshields requires you to get an augment, not innate.

And I personally have been using Overshield augment and I gain like 200 extra overshields per cast, not tick. Not even at 15 minutes in T4S even 1K extra shields gets destroyed in 5 seconds.

The game is not balanced around solo survival

The game is not balanced around solo survival

 

Fine you want to talk about T4 survival so bad?

 

You can go 10 hours in T4 survival with vaub nekros nova and trinity.

 

Want to know why? Trinity's EV lets them use Mol prime vortex desecrate infinitely. 

 

EV is a game exploit that should be fixed. 

[Unholyrequiem]

Valkyr has 600 base shields. Her 2nd adds more armor on top of that.

Overshields requires you to get an augment, not innate.

And I personally have been using Overshield augment and I gain like 200 extra overshields per cast, not tick. Not even at 15 minutes in T4S even 1K extra shields gets destroyed in 5 seconds.

Valkyr has 150 base shields(do you mean armour?). and I didn't try to argue that Valkyr was in a worse position or say that her overshield was innate. I know it's an augment mod. 

Edited October 13, 2015 by Unholyrequiem

[DelialFallen]

Though of course it affects every frame, the distribution of energy and its manipulation. Trinity is not merely an underlying symptom but part of causation. Thus it's relevant to the discussion at hand as it is the exact reason people want Trinity nerfed.

 

There are other, equally efficient ways of returning energy.  For example, each member of the team can carry 200 of a single type of energy plate.  There are three types of energy plate to choose from, and all can be equipped at the same time, for a total of 600 energy plates per player.  These energy plates can be dropped at almost any time, placed on almost any spot on a game map.  Although the resulting amount of energy gotten out of them is not infinite, I'm certain we can agree it represents a high enough amount that it too can be part of the energy equation.

 

In the present context of the game, wherein the above exists and given the amount of energy orb drops from high concentration of enemies, given too the existence of ressource boosters, and abilities such as Desecrate  and augments like Pilfering swarm, I'm not convinced Energy Vampire in of itself provides energy to such a degree as to deserve being targeted with more focus than other energy returning options currently in the game.

 

Doing so rather appears disingenuous to me at this point.

Edited October 13, 2015 by DelialFallen

[Unholyrequiem]

-snip-

Please read my earlier arguments.

[Kolos1001]

There are other, equally efficient ways of returning energy.  For example, each member of the team can carry 200 of a single type of energy plate.  There are three types of energy plate to choose from, and all can be equipped at the same time, for a total of 600 energy plates per player.  These energy plates can be dropped at almost any time, placed on almost any spot on a game map.  Although the resulting amount of energy gotten out of them is not infinite, I'm certain we can agree it represents a high enough amount that it too can be part of the energy equation.

 

In the present context of the game, wherein the above exists and given the amount of energy orb drops from high concentration of enemies, given too the existence of ressource boosters, and abilities such as Desecrate  and augments like Pilfering swarm, I'm not convinced Energy Vampire in of itself provides energy to such a degree as to deserve being targeted with more focus than other energy returning options currently in the game.

 

Doing so rather appears disingenuous to me at this point.

consumables =/= powers. Irrelevant. 

[izzatuw]

The game is not balanced around solo survival

The game is not balanced around solo survival

Fine you want to talk about T4 survival so bad?

You can go 10 hours in T4 survival with vaub nekros nova and trinity.

Want to know why? Trinity's EV lets them use Mol prime vortex desecrate infinitely.

EV is a game exploit that should be fixed.

I did that match not more than 10 hours ago, we really only went for 20 minutes than left, I just kept trying to get maximum overshield, a butcher at 15 minute ate up 200-300 of my shield per swing, when 3 people ganged on me it took less than 5 seconds to go from 2K shields to less than 500.

Arguably you can replace the Trinity with another frame like Hydroid with Pilfering Swarm.