Loki Rework Idea

[toolazyforagoodname]

*note:  I'm not saying Loki is the highest priority for reworks but more so that I feel he could use one and it's not a full overhaul more of changes that I feel would make him better.  

 

long bit about reasons I though up the idea of reworking Loki 

Loki is a rather good frame for what he's good at.  Which begs the question "Then why rework him?" well he's only got 2 effective powers for doing much of anything.  "Invisibility" and "Disarm".  Albeit you can use his 3 for good, that's not the main use of it for players.  it's either to teleport with their decoy or to mess with other players. generally it's not used for anything else and his decoy is rather weak for something that pulls all the aggro from enemies almost to the point that it's useless for anything but switch teleport.  He still has his 2 and 4 though.  right?  yes but if you want a really good invisibility so you don't get shot, since Loki can't really take hits and his invisibility is his only effective method to avoid damage (his 1 only really working for small areas and only short durations due to low health without strength mods that only really affect it (his 1)) you have to build for his 2 and only his 2 because narrow minded will reduce his range substantially, which all his other powers rely on.  If you're going to contribute to the team in any meaningful way in late-game you will be basically disarming enemies which is helpful but it's all you can do with your powers besides not die with his 2.  So with the exception of those that use him exclusively to get enemies to run into Vauban traps, there are very few Lokis that do much with their powers for the team.  You could argue that "well he can invis and kill things" but at the same time someone could go as trinity and use link and blessing to keep themselves alive and be using e-vamp to keep from running out of energy and my powers would be giving everyone else healing and energy instead of keeping me alive and only me, allowing me to revive people assuming something along the lines of a bombard doesn't shoot in my general direction or my invis wears off and everything tears me up.  These are just some ideas I had about changing his kit and allowing for a more impactful existence especially in late game.

 

-Passive: Loki's bullet jumps stagger enemies for a substantial duration (4-6 seconds?)

 

 

Decoy and Switch Teleport Change ideas

-

1.Decoy and switch teleport joined together into one move called "made ya look". It acts like switch teleport when aimed at a foe but otherwise summons a decoy that lasts for a set duration (no limit to health) that can be switched with. 25 energy cost   2.Alternatively, swap Loki's 1 and 3 and allow his decoy to move (similar to a tenno specter or atlas's golems) and do small amounts of damage increasing it's health substantially and make it cost 75 energy

 

 

Invis change idea

-Changing his "Invisibility" to a channeling ability. costing 15 + 7/5/4/3  energy (decreasing with rank). this means his invis will still cost the same effectively but it will be able to last longer if they should choose to stay invis longer, for more energy plus since loki has such a large energy pool anyway a channeling power shouldn't be a major issue for him.  This change will also allow builds to revolve around his full kit (since players will no longer (hopefully) try to build him exclusively for his invis with full duration, tanking his range which all his other powers use.

 

 

- New power ideas.  If Loki were to have his 1 and 3 joined together he'd obviously need a new power to take place of the previous power so I've been trying to think of other moves for him to have that still fit the trickster idea.

 

 "over here"

Loki summons an unarmed clone of himself that teleports behind enemies, tapping their shoulder then teleporting away.  Causing them to turn around and become effectively staggered (and opened up for finishers) from surprise for a short duration. *Alternatively to Loki summoning a clone he himself could do it or summon clones and he and the clones perform the power similar to ash and bladestorm. (either replacing radial disarm and knocking R. Disarm down to his 3 or becoming his 3 costing either 100 (if replacing his 4) or 75 (if replacing his 3))

 

 

 "gotcha"

 

1.Loki summons a small amount of traps (3-5) to the ground in front of him that if an enemy walks over they will be immobilized for a short duration of time.  

2.Alternatively, he could summon a few tripwires that..... well they trip enemies.  similar to how warframes are knocked down by passing through laser barriers.

 

I'm open to more ideas for changes to his kit but these are just the ideas I had.

 

*edit: I removed the idea of no longer being able to ST with teammates which seams to be the main issue people have with this whole thing.  But I still feel that his 1 & 3 should be consolidated into a single power

 

Also Made it more clear that there were more than one power idea for most of the notes.  as well as making a minor change to the description of one of the decoy/Switch Teleport change descriptions.

Edited October 22, 2015 by toolazyforagoodname

[(XBOX)TheMadCash]

Mmm switch tele & decoy I like. But removing the ability on teammates will take away one of his augments.

[toolazyforagoodname]

Mmm switch tele & decoy I like. But removing the ability on teammates will take away one of his augments.

had an idea to have the augment for that power be based on the decoy.  having it explode, blinding all enemies in a range like Mirage's 4

[ENIAK_Prime]

Plz add Radiation Proc on enemies when using Switch Teleport on them for gods sake. Thank you.

[BenzinNinJa]

I like this. Loki was always good, but I think he's one of the few, if not the only, of the old frames that hasn't received any kind of tweak or rework.

[GoSonic]

I don't believe Loki is in need of a rework. I think Loki is one of the most solid frames there is. 

I don't like the idea of Over Here. Gotcha seems like Mirages Sleight of Hand with the augment. 

Making Invisibility a toggled ability means you can use max efficiency with continuity with max range (Meaning you will only need one build for Loki and it makes him able to be invisible forever while taking away all enemy weapons away). 

I love Switch Teleport personally. If someone downs away from the group or pod you can go invis and switch tp them near your allies so they can revive them.

[dummifighter]

Loki. Does. Not. Need. A. Rework.

[Drufo]

For me, the only thing Loki needs are 1)Decoy not being a physical object that can be killed. It should just be an ologram. 2)Swith teleport should allow friedly fire for a set time in which the target is disoriented. Also, more interaction with the ambient (like explosives barrels and so on)

[Shiro_Kisaragi]

One does not speak about Loki rework.

[DaganEldr]

I think overall, two things are needed for the sake of Loki's survivability--Invisibility, and Radial Disarm. You have to keep in mind that Loki has very low armor, and thus very low durability. He can't handle much fight unless you either master controls perfectly (and manage to evade a fair amount of bullets), or focus his mod slots on survivability.

 

Switch Teleport is also fairly necessary for many reasons. Teleporting a teammate to safety, if someone gets stuck somewhere and you can't teleport them out, or getting to a hard to reach place that would otherwise be difficult with wall climbing or a bullet jump. Trust me, they're out there.

 

I think the only ability that could stand a rework is Decoy, honestly. Instead of just one, it would be nice if it were capable of being recasted to have more than one decoy out, confusing enemies even more. Or maybe invisibility as well, perhaps having the same rework that Hysteria got.

 

 

But overall, his abilities are tolerable. Quite tolerable. I wouldn't focus on reworking him before some of the other frames, at the very least. Some others definitely need it way more, and he could easily do without.

Edited October 22, 2015 by DaganEldr

[toolazyforagoodname]

I don't believe Loki is in need of a rework. I think Loki is one of the most solid frames there is. 

I don't like the idea of Over Here. Gotcha seems like Mirages Sleight of Hand with the augment. 

Making Invisibility a toggled ability means you can use max efficiency with continuity with max range (Meaning you will only need one build for Loki and it makes him able to be invisible forever while taking away all enemy weapons away). 

I love Switch Teleport personally. If someone downs away from the group or pod you can go invis and switch tp them near your allies so they can revive them.

Though his ST can be used for good purposes.  I've only ever had 1-2 players ever use if for anything but trolling other players or switching with his decoy.  He is meant to disrupt combat for the enemies.  That's why I came up with the idea of The "Over here" power because it's mass disruption but not just in the style of "oh I don't have a gun anymore time to beat this tenno senseless with a stick."  disarm being his only major disruption is only a second worth of a stagger and then enemies resume attacking.  the only difference is they now wield melee weapons, and in the case of infested where there are only 2 types of ranged enemies (both forms of moa) it doesn't do much to disrupt or mess with them besides doing 400 impact damage

[Leavith]

I like the idea of rework to make it more viable to use his full kit

But your ideas could be better Loki needs to represent what chaos trickery and stealth are all about

Decoy doesn't really do much

Switch teleport is good for distance travel and with augmentation it make decoy useful

Disarm pretty well since of no gun policy and with augmentation great

Invi works nice because you know invi

[toolazyforagoodname]

I like the idea of rework to make it more viable to use his full kit

But your ideas could be better Loki needs to represent what chaos trickery and stealth are all about

Decoy doesn't really do much

Switch teleport is good for distance travel and with augmentation it make decoy useful

Disarm pretty well since of no gun policy and with augmentation great

Invi works nice because you know invi

well I'm open to more ideas.  Just kinda something I thought up in like 15-20 minutes or so.  so it's not going to be fantastic.  honestly IMO if they just went with the second thing in the decoy/ST ideas and made his invis channeling I feel like that would make him significantly better.  The idea to consolidate his 1 and 3 together just stemmed from in my experience people either just use decoy with switch teleport or don't use it at all.  The major problem obviously being that he then needs a new power to fill the void so I just kinda thought up what I could

[WorstPlayer]

Loki doesn't need a rework, lock thread please

[BenzinNinJa]

I will agree with those saying, that Loki doesn't need a rework.
He doesn't NEED it, but he could benefit from it.

[toolazyforagoodname]

Loki doesn't need a rework, lock thread please

He has powers that are either barely effective or not effective at all in most cases.  He doesn't need it.  he could use it though.  the main points of this are changing ST and Decoy.  especially decoy since it normally dies before the duration is even a quarter of the way up because generally speaking building strength on loki is a non-option.  The only change to any of his other powers I proposed was changing invis to channel.  allowing for longer invisibility and allowing him to not have to focus 100% on duration for his perma-invis.

[Leavith]

well I'm open to more ideas. Just kinda something I thought up in like 15-20 minutes or so. so it's not going to be fantastic. honestly IMO if they just went with the second thing in the decoy/ST ideas and made his invis channeling I feel like that would make him significantly better. The idea to consolidate his 1 and 3 together just stemmed from in my experience people either just use decoy with switch teleport or don't use it at all. The major problem obviously being that he then needs a new power to fill the void so I just kinda thought up what I could

Well decoy could be changed

And switch teleport as well

But as for invi being changed what will occur it will be just one form of build being used while it is good for the player to many hey this is the correct way to do it

.as for decoy

How about changing what decoy can do

We make it work like random

When using decoy it will have chance of being a decoy of a Loki or the chance of a decoy being a specific enemy of the enemy faction your facing

Enemy Decoy will have average level of the enemy they are facing

Tenno decoy will have the average stats of the team

If the decoy is a Tenno

The decoy It summons a pad/mat

If the decoy is a infested faction

The decoy will heal itself

If the decoy is a grineer faction

The decoy will do small damage the enemy who is shoot will take friendly fire

If the decoy is a corpus faction

The decoy chill not take damage just be duration

Now for switch teleport I like the idea of switched enemy being procs but Tenno should also procs radiation

Mainly when switching place the switched enemy when appers will be stunned likes he natural mechanic but will release a small aoe that procs enemy around the switched enemy

And were Loki switched he will also release a small aoe that procs enemy around were Loki appears

Not to op I believe

Edited October 22, 2015 by Leavith

[toolazyforagoodname]

Well decoy could be changed

And switch teleport as well

But as for invi being changed what will occur it will be just one form of build being used while it is good for the player to many hey this is the correct way to do it

.as for decoy

How about changing what decoy can do

We make it work like random

When using decoy it will have chance of being a decoy of a Loki or the chance of a decoy being a specific enemy of the enemy faction your facing

Enemy Decoy will have average level of the enemy they are facing

Tenno decoy will have the average stats of the team

If the decoy is a Tenno

The decoy It summons a pad/mat

If the decoy is a infested faction

The decoy will heal itself

If the decoy is a grineer faction

The decoy will do small damage the enemy who is shoot will take friendly fire

If the decoy is a corpus faction

The decoy chill not take damage just be duration

Now for switch teleport I like the idea of switched enemy being procs but Tenno should also procs radiation

Mainly when switching place the switched enemy when appers will be stunned likes he natural mechanic but will release a small aoe that procs enemy around the switched enemy

And were Loki switched he will also release a small aoe that procs enemy around were Loki appears

Not to op I believe

ST proc'ing radiation around the enemy would be nice but the decoy thing changing how it works vs each faction seems a bit complicated.  though I'm sure it's possible being that they've done powers with several different functions based on things before, specifically chroma.  I still kinda prefer the idea of making it like a tenno specter and having it deal reduced damage and still have the higher aggro because it's simplistic and you can still have it act like decoy does now just by walking up to it and hitting "X" like a specter.  the difference is having it more durable and do some damage.  not a lot though.

[Leavith]

ST proc'ing radiation around the enemy would be nice but the decoy thing changing how it works vs each faction seems a bit complicated.  though I'm sure it's possible being that they've done powers with several different functions based on things before, specifically chroma.  I still kinda prefer the idea of making it like a tenno specter and having it deal reduced damage and still have the higher aggro because it's simplistic and you can still have it act like decoy does now just by walking up to it and hitting "X" like a specter.  the difference is having it more durable and do some damage.  not a lot though.

I see were your going but I feel like just the fact Loki is not stupid a warframe that control a battlefield with chaos and confusion would it not be confusing if the decoy was one of your own.

Now I might have made it overalls complex but decoy function as a power increases

[toolazyforagoodname]

I see were your going but I feel like just the fact Loki is not stupid a warframe that control a battlefield with chaos and confusion would it not be confusing if the decoy was one of your own.

Now I might have made it overalls complex but decoy function as a power increases

I suppose it would be but at the same time the function changing with each form might be a bit too complex for most users.  Also logically speaking I wouldn't shoot at one of my own but instead at the thing I know is foe for sure.  so it remaining to be a Loki clone makes sense.

[Leavith]

I suppose it would be but at the same time the function changing with each form might be a bit too complex for most users.  Also logically speaking I wouldn't shoot at one of my own but instead at the thing I know is foe for sure.  so it remaining to be a Loki clone makes sense.

i am playing on the confusion factor say you see a friend attacking a friend which side would you choose that would confuse the enemy

[toolazyforagoodname]

i am playing on the confusion factor say you see a friend attacking a friend which side would you choose that would confuse the enemy

I suppose but it wouldn't draw my attention away from the obvious foe who has to my knowledge killed many of my kind and is much more powerful than someone with equivalent armor and weaponry to me.

[DaganEldr]

He has powers that are either barely effective or not effective at all in most cases.  He doesn't need it.  he could use it though.  the main points of this are changing ST and Decoy.  especially decoy since it normally dies before the duration is even a quarter of the way up because generally speaking building strength on loki is a non-option.  The only change to any of his other powers I proposed was changing invis to channel.  allowing for longer invisibility and allowing him to not have to focus 100% on duration for his perma-invis.

This is why I stated earlier that Decoy could benefit from a rework, but that's about the only thing I'd want to see. And not even a rework in the sense of being another ability, but rather a touch-up.

 

Instead of being duration-based singular cast that destroys the decoy when it's recast somewhere else, here's what I would do-

 

Treat it in the sense of Frost's Snowglobe. Recastable more than once without destroying the previous cast, and it's no longer based on duration, but rather simply range or power strength (to determine how long one decoy would last against a group of enemies). The more of these distractions there are, the less likely an enemy is to target YOU or an objective you're trying to protect.

 

Otherwise, like I said, he could easily go without a rework. In fact, I think he's a rather well-developed frame. I'm not even saying this because he's my favorite, or because he's the frame I started this entire game with when he was available as a starter. Aside from durability, he is legitimately one of the most versatile frames in Warframe. His damage output factor is not based on the abilities themselves, but rather the weapons you bring to use in coordination with the abilities.

[Darthmufin]

all they need is a decoy augment. 

 

when decoy is destroyed, enemies within 2/4/7/10 meters of the decoy are disarmed

Edited October 22, 2015 by Darthmufin

[toolazyforagoodname]

all they need is a decoy augment. 

 

when decoy is destroyed, enemies within 2/4/7/10 meters of the decoy are disarmed

an augment for his decoy that does what his 4 does faster in a larger area.  it would be more sensible to make it blind them or for it to move.