SilentMobius Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 (edited) True, so what do you suggest to avoid the friction, curious about your opinion Any gear item usable in PvE should be attainable in PvE, it's that simple. I have nothing against alternate acquisition for PvPers, or trading being an option for those happy to do it. Edited October 30, 2015 by SilentMobius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brokenrune Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Any gear item usable in PvE should be attainable in PvE, it's that simple. I have nothing against alternate acquisition for PvPers, or trading being an option for those happy to do it. so maybe some kinda of mission rep from tenshin? Like the little objectives that give you affinity, but gives you rep for tenshin insdead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Zeylon Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Perhaps they could add them as cheaper mods from the regular syndicates? I mean, at a certain point you have no use for syndicate standing unless you want to resell stuff. I'll go ahead and add my voice to those that would PvE mods attainable through PvE, and not requiring trading with PvP players. I don't say that because I hate PvP players, but the trade system *is* pretty horrid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atom Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Tell me how it's any different from people who have to grind out of the rep hole and throw a catalyst offering to get out of negative rep to grind for other syndicate mods. It's just as inaccessible as PvP mods are for most players. Staggering numbers of people just trade for syndicate mods rather than grind for them yet you don't see people complaining about that. These PvP mods are no different. I don't need plat off PvP mods. I have plenty of catalysts and reactors stocked up and have been able to keep more than enough plat for my needs just selling off arcane helmets/extra mods/primes etc. etc. and occasionally buying plat when I get 50/75% off. This boils down to people wanting to rail against PvP for no good reason as usual. it's different because the other syndicates are within the PvE realm and theoretically accessible to anyone that came to this game for PvE (the overwhelming majority of players). PvP is a totally different game genre for a different type of player and your comparison is flawed. competition vs cooperation nobody is railing against PvP for no good reason the only problem we have here is gating PvE content behind PvP. again i say if it's usable in PvE it should be obtainable in PvE. how is that unreasonable? the only reason you would oppose this can be a selfish one and that i can't abide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmptyDevil Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 (edited) Any gear item usable in PvE should be attainable in PvE, it's that simple. I have nothing against alternate acquisition for PvPers, or trading being an option for those happy to do it. The difficulty of acquiring PVP mods via PVE needs to be equal to or higher than it is in PVP to make it fair IMO. I feel the change is also meant to be rewarding for PVPers because some players want to use what they earned elsewhere. Perhaps they could add them as cheaper mods from the regular syndicates? I mean, at a certain point you have no use for syndicate standing unless you want to resell stuff. I'll go ahead and add my voice to those that would PvE mods attainable through PvE, and not requiring trading with PvP players. I don't say that because I hate PvP players, but the trade system *is* pretty horrid. Making them cheaper via normal syndicates wouldn't be fair. They would have to cost more to make things balanced, if they took that route. Edited October 30, 2015 by EmptyDevil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brokenrune Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 The difficulty of acquiring PVP mods via PVE needs to be equal to or higher than it is in PVP to make it fair IMO. I feel the change is also meant to be rewarding for PVPers because some players want to use what they earned elsewhere. So what would you propose :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmptyDevil Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 So what would you propose :D "The difficulty of acquiring PVP mods via PVE needs to be equal to or higher than it is in PVP to make it fair IMO." This suggests to allow them to be acquired through some means in PVE, but make it much more grindy than PVP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atom Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 "The difficulty of acquiring PVP mods via PVE needs to be equal to or higher than it is in PVP to make it fair IMO." This suggests to allow them to be acquired through some means in PVE, but make it much more grindy than PVP. i can get behind this. i think it should definitely be possible to aquire them in PvE while rewarding PvP players dedication. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentMobius Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 (edited) The difficulty of acquiring PVP mods via PVE needs to be equal to or higher than it is in PVP to make it fair IMO. By what metric? Time invested? because there are very few axes that allow sane comparison between PvE and PvP. Chances are it would end up being a random drop (That is DE's modus operandi) but the mechanism is pretty much up to DE, it's the ability-to-acquire not the average time-to-acquire thats important. Edited October 30, 2015 by SilentMobius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brokenrune Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 (edited) "The difficulty of acquiring PVP mods via PVE needs to be equal to or higher than it is in PVP to make it fair IMO." This suggests to allow them to be acquired through some means in PVE, but make it much more grindy than PVP. hmmmm I purpose, TENSHIN CHALLENGES What they are Skilled based challenges that are given to players from Tenshin, if completed will give rep for tenshin. Although tenshin is the conclave master, he wants to give incentives for the tenno to improve there skills. Examples, -get ten head shots while aim gliding- 200 rep (easy) -deflect bullets and get a head shot on the enemy without taking damage (medium) -get two kills in two seconds, one of which has to be a air mele, can not be two ( hard) etc. etc. However, daily you can challenge tenshin to a duel to test your skills, with only a braton skana and lato. If you win you get 2000 rep points :D It would keep the grind, but allow the players to continuously work towards a goal, much better then random loot drops :p Edited October 30, 2015 by Brokenrune Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmptyDevil Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 By what metric? Time invested? because there are very few axes that allow comparison between PvE and PvP. Chances are it would end up being a random drop (That is DE's modus operandi) but the mechanism is pretty much up to DE, it's the ability-to-acquire not the average time-to-acquire thats important. I never said anything about time, but that is still important too. Someone who enjoys PVP would have to grind out rep for some time, while a PVE player could just get a Hydroid + Nekros loot farm and invalidate the PVP method. Not sure if you have tried the conclave before, but the rep gain is a lot slower than it is in PVE. That alone is reason enough to make the mods harder to obtain in PVE. The drop rate would have to be pretty low or they could make "Teshin challenges" as some players are suggesting. It would still remain a rewarding thing for dedicated PVPers and allow an alternative for those that dislike it. hmmmm I purpose, TENSHIN CHALLENGES What they are Skilled based challenges that are given to players from Tenshin, if completed will give rep for tenshin. Although tenshin is the conclave master, he wants to give incentives for the tenno to improve there skills. Examples, -get ten head shots while aim gliding- 200 rep (easy) -deflect bullets and get a head shot on the enemy without taking damage (medium) -get two kills in two seconds, one of which has to be a air mele, can not be two ( hard) etc. etc. However, daily you can challenge tenshin to a duel to test your skills, with only a braton skana and lato. If you win you get 2000 rep points :D It would keep the grind, but allow the players to continuously work towards a goal, much better then random loot drops :p I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aggh Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 (edited) it's different because the other syndicates are within the PvE realm and theoretically accessible to anyone that came to this game for PvE (the overwhelming majority of players). PvP is a totally different game genre for a different type of player and your comparison is flawed. competition vs cooperation nobody is railing against PvP for no good reason the only problem we have here is gating PvE content behind PvP. again i say if it's usable in PvE it should be obtainable in PvE. how is that unreasonable? the only reason you would oppose this can be a selfish one and that i can't abide. That's a nonsense argument. Theoretical accessibility is meaningless to the vast majority of players who don't have the time or potatoes to waste going in and out of syndicates for something they can throw ~20p at. Because CTF and TDM don't require any cooperation /s. Because they're just as readily accessible as plenty of other content. They're not accommodating PvP focused players in making PvE content more accessible so why should they bother doing it for PvE players with mods that aren't even all that good or remotely necessary? Edited October 30, 2015 by Aggh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atom Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 That's a nonsense argument. Theoretical accessibility is meaningless to the vast majority of players who don't have the time or potatoes to waste going in and out of syndicates for something they can throw ~20p at. Because CTF and TDM don't require any cooperation /s. Because they're just as readily accessible as plenty of other content. They're not accommodating PvP focused players in making PvE content more accessible so why should they bother doing it for PvE players with mods that aren't even all that good or remotely necessary? dude ur so full of it i don't even know where to begin. i already listed all the arguments for this. i'm tired so this is where i draw the line. can you give me a single argument on why you are opposed to this? why do you think PvE content should be exclusively available to a small percentage of players that are PvP oriented? why do you think forcing PvP on PvE players is good? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aggh Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 (edited) dude ur so full of it i don't even know where to begin. i already listed all the arguments for this. i'm tired so this is where i draw the line. can you give me a single argument on why you are opposed to this? why do you think PvE content should be exclusively available to a small percentage of players that are PvP oriented? why do you think forcing PvP on PvE players is good? You don't know where your begin because your arguments are nonsense and aren't really backed up by the reality of the game. They are not only available to PvP players. People who want them can play PvP or trade for them. Plenty of people hate grinding for other syndicates yet they have to grind syndicates or trade. Plenty of people also hate the grind involved for prime stuff yet they have to grind void missions or trade. Or how about grinding trials for arcanes? Where were you for people that don't like grinding that stuff? This affects you more than it does others so you're complaining about it, but the simple fact is that PvP mods are every bit as accessible as plenty of other items in the game that people don't like the missions for. If you want to talk about bad precedents, bending over backwards to forum whining about accessibility of even the most insignificant (and PvP mods are most definitely insignificant to PvE) mods/rewards/etc. is a terrible precedent to set. Edited October 30, 2015 by Aggh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atom Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 (edited) You don't know where your begin because your arguments are nonsense and aren't really backed up by the reality of the game. They are not only available to PvP players. People who want them can play PvP or trade for them. Plenty of people hate grinding for other syndicates yet they have to grind syndicates or trade. Plenty of people also hate the grind involved for prime stuff yet they have to grind void missions or trade. Or how about grinding trials for arcanes? Where were you for people that don't like grinding that stuff? This affects you more than it does others so you're complaining about it, but the simple fact is that PvP mods are every bit as accessible as plenty of other items in the game that people don't like the missions for. If you want to talk about bad precedents, bending over backwards to forum whining about accessibility of even the most insignificant (and PvP mods are most definitely insignificant to PvE) mods/rewards/etc. is a terrible precedent to set. what? please reread your post and try to think about what nonsense means "They are not only available to PvP players. People who want them can play PvP or trade for them" come again? if the are not available in PvE they are not accessible to PvE players. they are exclusively available from PvP...that means PvP players ... do i need to make you a drawing? we are not discussing the grind here but the gating of PvE items bhind the totally different gaming genre known as PvP i don't like the grind either and have spoken out against the excessive use of RNG but that's a very difficult and sensitive topic i'm sure you can understand why. "This affects you more than it does others so you're complaining about it" you assume too much i already have all the PvP mods. what bothers me like i already said is having PvP exclusive content usable in PvE. make it possible to obtain in some way (there are many very good suggestions in this thread) and we don't have a problem "If you want to talk about bad precedents, bending over backwards to forum whining about accessibility of even the most insignificant (and PvP mods are most definitely insignificant to PvE) mods/rewards/etc. is a terrible precedent to set." so in your opinion we should keep quiet about problems that have the potential to grow into something that alienates players and split the community. you still haven't given me one reason for why you think having PvP exclusive content usable in PvE or why you think forcing PvE'ers in PvP can be in any way a good thing. Edited October 30, 2015 by ..atom.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WrathAscending Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 When I saw the list of mods added to PVE I decided to give PVP another go. I seriously did not enjoy Conclave 1.0, tried Conclave 2.0 when it was released, and discovered that I disliked it even more intensely now. Every game I played had the host with massive lag, resulting in projectile weapons or charged weapons being nearly impossible to use, while Conclave reputation gain was so slow it would be the better part of a month before I could start getting a hold of those mods. So I tried the Trade channel, but either nobody had the mods or wanted an unreasonable (50p+ per mod) amount of Platinum for them. As others have said, if something is only useable in PVP it is fine that it is only obtainable through it. The majority of the player base does not appear to participate in or particularly enjoy PVP, so if previously PVP mods are going to be available for PVE they should be obtainable via PVE gaming too. Hopefully this will be changed in U18. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monybags33 Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 The question that first came to my mind is why are we first of all using PVP mods in PVE to begin with? They are designed for specific areas are they not so would anyone expect them to be decent when not used in its particular game mode? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WrathAscending Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 I was mostly looking to do something like putting draw speed and reload while holstered mods on weapons after the Multishot and potentially Serration etc changes. Right now they would be fun but gimmicky; after those updates they'll be a lot more useful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TennoPain Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Dont like PVP anyways even if i pwn noobs still dont like pvp in general (nothing to do with WF) But i do feel like players are being forced EXILUS is example But nothing compares TO ARCHWING grind (reasons so many of my good friends left game) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tostov Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Dont like PVP anyways even if i pwn noobs still dont like pvp in general (nothing to do with WF) But i do feel like players are being forced EXILUS is example But nothing compares TO ARCHWING grind (reasons so many of my good friends left game) Oh hey, AW derail. That being said, both XP wise are pretty bad, not enough kills. AW has the benefit of not having its own rep associated with it. On the other hand, Conclave has dailies, which makes it much more managable, if you can convince a friend to come be a target for the harder ones (seriously, 12 primary kills in a cephalon capture doesn't seem like much until you remember that it's mostly some dude speed running back and fourth). Holster reload mods are pretty cool. If you despise trading and have a pal, you can get two of them over the course of like 3 days (grab one from ranking up, then one with rep, they're only 15k) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertgk2017 Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 I couldn't care less about this crappy PvP, let alone the mods that come with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aggh Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 what? please reread your post and try to think about what nonsense means "They are not only available to PvP players. People who want them can play PvP or trade for them" come again? if the are not available in PvE they are not accessible to PvE players. they are exclusively available from PvP...that means PvP players ... do i need to make you a drawing? we are not discussing the grind here but the gating of PvE items bhind the totally different gaming genre known as PvP i don't like the grind either and have spoken out against the excessive use of RNG but that's a very difficult and sensitive topic i'm sure you can understand why. "This affects you more than it does others so you're complaining about it" you assume too much i already have all the PvP mods. what bothers me like i already said is having PvP exclusive content usable in PvE. make it possible to obtain in some way (there are many very good suggestions in this thread) and we don't have a problem "If you want to talk about bad precedents, bending over backwards to forum whining about accessibility of even the most insignificant (and PvP mods are most definitely insignificant to PvE) mods/rewards/etc. is a terrible precedent to set." so in your opinion we should keep quiet about problems that have the potential to grow into something that alienates players and split the community. you still haven't given me one reason for why you think having PvP exclusive content usable in PvE or why you think forcing PvE'ers in PvP can be in any way a good thing. I've given you plenty, you just can't seem to wrap your head around very simple concepts. Massive grind walls that require potatoes to get out of (and then moves the same grind wall+potato fee to other syndicates) is every bit as much of a gate to most players who want syndicate content in opposing syndicates. That's why you're still able to sell syndicate weapons and mods pretty easily in trade chat. No one really has any problem with this. They just trade plat/mods/weapons for what they want. And these are for items that are really, really good in PvE. PvP mods are not even remotely as effective and are every bit as accessible. Your objection to the current state of PvP mods in PvE is slippery slope argument and speculation on weapon damage changes which DE hasn't even finished designing and hasn't talked about in any meaningful detail since nothing is finalized yet. My opinion is that we shouldn't make mountains out of mole hills. A hand full of subpar mods that are every bit as acccessible as plenty of other items in the game are not going to split the player base. You need to come back to reality before you post again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atom Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 I've given you plenty, you just can't seem to wrap your head around very simple concepts. Massive grind walls that require potatoes to get out of (and then moves the same grind wall+potato fee to other syndicates) is every bit as much of a gate to most players who want syndicate content in opposing syndicates. That's why you're still able to sell syndicate weapons and mods pretty easily in trade chat. No one really has any problem with this. They just trade plat/mods/weapons for what they want. And these are for items that are really, really good in PvE. PvP mods are not even remotely as effective and are every bit as accessible. Your objection to the current state of PvP mods in PvE is slippery slope argument and speculation on weapon damage changes which DE hasn't even finished designing and hasn't talked about in any meaningful detail since nothing is finalized yet. My opinion is that we shouldn't make mountains out of mole hills. A hand full of subpar mods that are every bit as acccessible as plenty of other items in the game are not going to split the player base. You need to come back to reality before you post again. funny you should say that when you're the one who can't tell the difference between a time/grind wall and a totally different reason for playing. comparing grind/time walls within PvE with PvE vs PvP is wrong. it's not the same kind of gate and that matters. yes many players skip the those walls within PvE and they can use the same trading method to skip this one. however this makes for a divide between the handful of players that have PvP rep and speculate the high demand vs low offer of PvP mods and the rest of the playerbase which is primarily PvE. no one has a problem with the grind/time walls in PvE because everything usable could until now be acquired for free within PvE. we understand the need for those walls in a f2p game and we can choose to climb them or pay for a shortcut. my objection is again if it's usable in PvE it should be obtainable in PvE because the overwhelming majority of players here came for the co-op PvE gaming experience. it's really that simple you should be able to understand it and it's not just my opinion that should be obvious if you look at this thread and others like it. so far very few players such as yourself are opposed and what to keep this PvP exclusivity and they no doubt have something to gain from it so please cut the BS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aoguro Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 (edited) While they are not game changers by any strech of the imagination, I'm worried that there will be those that will claim that DE is forcing them to play PvP so they can get these mods like they did when Arcanes and Exilus Slots came out (there are those people out there, we all know it). In my view: DE is trying to promote players to try the PvP aspect of the game by giving some rewards you can use on the Core game, this is great. They make game modes and want people to try them out so they can give feedback and in turn, improve it. As far as making PvP mods useable in PvE, I have no problems as long as they remain gimmicks, if just not to ruffle the feathers of some players who are few in number, but annoyingly loud (Like one stray cat that just doesnt shut up at the middle of the night). i have no place in my weapons for this right now ... would take away power ... in 2 years we will need 20 modslots on frames and weapons, so smart ... =:P Edited October 31, 2015 by Ken_Jutsu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5H4DE Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Im still waiting for the pure dmg mods to be gone and weapons reworked . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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