Guardsman Synthesis Entry Findings

[arch111]

Vor found a Masterkey.

Janus is the God of Light and doorways. DE choose the name for a reason.

[321agemo]

The natah quest clearly states that she is a Sentient that used us as a part of her plan.

There no fanon in any of this, she is evil.

Your definition of evil seems quite broad.

From the orokin standpoint, she mass murdered them so to them she would be considered evil.

However, from a tenno standpoint, she's not. She chose to keep us alive then to eliminate us. She betrayed her own kind, and to adopt us as her children. While some may question the mentality of such a decision, in the end her alignment is with us, so to us she is good.

Not to mention the fact that steve, the lore writer of warframe, has confirmed that the lotus is canonically good.

[arch111]

Your definition of evil seems quite broad.

From the orokin standpoint, she mass murdered them so to them she would be considered evil.

However, from a tenno standpoint, she's not. She chose to keep us alive then to eliminate us. She betrayed her own kind, and to adopt us as her children. While some may question the mentality of such a decision, in the end her alignment is with us, so to us she is good.

Not to mention the fact that steve, the lore writer of warframe, has confirmed that the lotus is canonically good.

Lotus, yes. But Natah "was destroyed".

I have a feeling Natah would be rebooted if she returned home.

But then, maby that is the plotline. We will have Lotus the protector,

And Natah the destroyer.

I like the poetic prospects.

[Morec0]

Lotus, yes. But Natah "was destroyed".

I have a feeling Natah would be rebooted if she returned home.

But then, maby that is the plotline. We will have Lotus the protector,

And Natah the destroyer.

I like the poetic prospects.

 

While I agree it would be poetically interesting, I'm not sure that Natah could be "rebooted". I mean, there are a million ways that Lotus could be forced back or whatever into her old mindset by her people - we've had enough "turn to the dark side" stories to explore every possible avenue - but the idea of them just being able to flip a switch and get her back... Seems unlikely to me. Lotus' personality and ideals changed through a lot of time and experience with the Tenno, not overnight - she killed that part of herself, left her past behind, and took on her new role as someone else - you can't just undo that sort of thing just as fast.

[Bongever]

Janus is the God of Light and doorways. DE choose the name for a reason.

Time for more speculation! I also found out that Janus is the greek god for doorways and light. Real interesting name. Now lets bring up the idea another guy posted that Janus isnt just the name of an Orokin, but could be the title of a class of Orokin. Each class seems to possess a specific level of access to Orokin locations and technology, bypassed through the use of their genes or whatever is implanted into the Orokin's body.

Another person also mentioned that wouldnt it be more sensible for the Orokin, a race with the technology to create portals to varying locations, to just travel by portal from ship to ship? That would make docking ships an inferior method. I also suggested that they may have resorted to docking in the Guardsman lore since it was the downfall of the Orokin.

What Im getting at is what if Janus is the class for people who handled doorways (portals.). You could think of them as an Orokin Customs department, who handled matters of what went through the portals and managed them. If Vor did manage to get a key with the genetic imprint of somone who handled the Orokin portals, it would explain why he can show up anywhere on T4, and not just a specific mission type.

Just think, they had Executors who executed the will of the Empire. Enginus class may have been in charge of managing the Empire's Armada of Orokin vessels. And te Janus, a class who managed the Orokin doorways,

[Yrveth]

I like this, it sounds very sensible to me, and ties up the lore with game mechanics which is always a great thing.

 

Though following these speculations, perhaps we should also examine the connection between the Orokin and the Void? Vor doesn't really talk much of the Orokin, it's all about the Void and its power and nature and mysteries. Have there been discussions as to how the "towers" ended up hidden the Void? From the Crewman synthesis, it used to be an obstacle to the Orokin's Plan, and later on it became the last resort in the war with the Sentients but it still didn't seem like a friendly place.

[321agemo]

Just think, they had Executors who executed the will of the Empire. Enginus class may have been in charge of managing the Empire's Armada of Orokin vessels. And te Janus, a class who managed the Orokin doorways,

This is interesting. If this is true, this could open up another scenario i just thought of.

We know the sentients travelled to the sol system using the rails (natah etc...) what if the voice that spoke to vor wasnt orokin.... But sentient? What if the key was already corrupted by sentients if the janus class (assuming it exist) were the ones guarding the portal to our system.

Of course, this is instantly destroyed since hes called “corrupted vor” and the terminology of “corrupted” has been confirmed to be orokin thanks to arid eviscerator.

But one can dream i guess.

[arch111]

While I agree it would be poetically interesting, I'm not sure that Natah could be "rebooted". I mean, there are a million ways that Lotus could be forced back or whatever into her old mindset by her people - we've had enough "turn to the dark side" stories to explore every possible avenue - but the idea of them just being able to flip a switch and get her back... Seems unlikely to me. Lotus' personality and ideals changed through a lot of time and experience with the Tenno, not overnight - she killed that part of herself, left her past behind, and took on her new role as someone else - you can't just undo that sort of thing just as fast.

Ah. I see I was not clear enough.

I mean, considering how advanced they are and the fact that Natah changed herself, and the assumed artificial nature of who they are = they are programs, living but still programs - I thought that Natah would be reawoken/reassembled from Lotus and reformed into a new body of her original form.

There would be two of them, and they would be destined to destroy each other, or save oneanother.

I can see huge potential in this, plus all who want a evil Lotus gets their wish.

Isn't the god Kali like that, both Destoyer and Lifegiver?

[Morec0]

Ah. I see I was not clear enough.

I mean, considering how advanced they are and the fact that Natah changed herself, and the assumed artificial nature of who they are = they are programs, living but still programs - I thought that Natah would be reawoken/reassembled from Lotus and reformed into a new body of her original form.

There would be two of them, and they would be destined to destroy each other, or save oneanother.

I can see huge potential in this, plus all who want a evil Lotus gets their wish.

Isn't the god Kali like that, both Destoyer and Lifegiver?

 

Ahhh, I see.

 

That would be rather interesting, to see Lotus be split and a new form taken off after her... but given that she is now sterile I'm not sure we'll be seeing that happen. I think if she was split she'd simply stay split (until she could heal, at least), at least, given how I understand the nature of the Sentients anyway.

 

I still think it's a little... crass to call the Sentients artificial lifeforms. I don't fully buy they're "machines" as we understand them, robots and the like, given the way the "starfish" in the Crewman Synthesis was able to reproduce and regenerate. They very much seem to be fully living, biological things to me. I will say, though, that the possibility that they evolved into something more mechanical in order to become immune to the Technocyte is one of those things that fascinates me.

 

And I don't even really them as programs either because of that, though that raises the question of where a program stops and a sentient being begins. Is Ordis even technically a program? What would characterize a sufficiently advanced A.I. compared to a fully realized consciousness?

 

If I had to say, I'd say it's if it's bound to a particular set of rules that it HAS to obey or not. Ordis has to serve the Operator, as well as his other Precepts, and he does so gladly, but does Simaris have that? Suda? I'd say yes but it's not expressly stated.

 

So many questions... perhaps I should keep watching more Soma playthroughs, maybe the answer will come then.

Edited November 3, 2015 by Morec0

[Mak_Gohae]

Evil how? Evil for putting an end to a horrible oppressive empire that was built upon slave labour?

 

When did we learn how the Orokin empire was built?

 

And now was it oppressive?

 

Or is she evil for saving the Tenno from Vor?

 

You DO know that she is "saving" the tenno from Vor because she put the tenno in that position, right?

 

 

 

Your definition of evil seems quite broad.

From the orokin standpoint, she mass murdered them so to them she would be considered evil.

However, from a tenno standpoint, she's not. She chose to keep us alive then to eliminate us. She betrayed her own kind, and to adopt us as her children. While some may question the mentality of such a decision, in the end her alignment is with us, so to us she is good.

Not to mention the fact that steve, the lore writer of warframe, has confirmed that the lotus is canonically good.

 

We dont know how she got us to betray the Orokin. But since she has issues and went so far to obtain kids.... i dont think the tenno standpoint on this is good.

 

Specially since the tenno had to learn about this on our own instead of her telling us.

[Yrveth]

And now was it oppressive?

 

I did a quick dictionary check to make sure I'm not mistaken, because English is not my first language, and it gave me the following short definition of the word "oppression": prolonged cruel or unjust treatment or exercise of authority.

 

Multiple codex and synthesis entries can be used to contribute evidence that this is exactly the way of the Orokin empire. They bred the Grineer for labour and treated them like mindless sub-humans. Note the Kuria poem where the Twin Queens were initially "shunned" and rejected by their society for being born twins, because that was "slave-like" - like they were clones, even though (and I hate to make this point) they were not.

 

Eviscerator entry shows high ranking Orokin officials repeatedly disregarding those below them, both Grineer and Orokin, treating them with contempt and as completely disposable.

 

Isn’t the situation with the Sentients the same? Sent to do the Orokin’s dirty work, set up to die out after finishing - no wonder they were pissed off. Natah just did with the Tenno the same her people had been doing with all other Orokin weapons, turned them against the Orokin. Because that’s all the Tenno were to the Orokin, really. Created in cruel experiments (Ember, Rhino codex) and ranked below the lowest of the Orokin (Corrupted Ancient synthesis) they weren't actually some respected warriors or anything of the sort.

 

 

You DO know that she is "saving" the tenno from Vor because she put the tenno in that position, right?

 

In what exactly position did she put them? From what she says in the Natah quest, that was her alternative to killing them. She did her best to keep the Tenno safe. Even if from our point of view her methods were not the best, there is no suggestion of ill intent in her actions. Even Teshin, whilst claiming that he won't keep anything from us, didn't tell us anything to reveal her as an evil mastermind.