Feedback Megathread: Saryn Revisited.

[DelialFallen]

I was using the word 'significant' in its 'noteworthy' sense.  I do consider the change to Venom (now Spore) and Contagion (now Toxic Lash) to be valuable buffs, especially the former.  The functionality of Miasma can be debated, some buffs to Molt desired, buffs to Saryn's health and movement wanted, but the overall rework is an upgrade over the previous incarnation of the frame.

 

It just needs to be ironed out to be made amazing.

[(PSN)Draconis1981]

no one likes change especially after spending alot of time and forma modding a certain way it is expected people be upset but thats all part of this game in beta thing so..............

[Matharl]

Her effective HP should be buffed back to what it was before and Regenerative Molt should be innate instead of a mod.

Molt should have a grace period during which it can't be destroy so you can heal from it in lategame mission (atm ennemies OS molt instantly, terrible defensive ability for a frame who's supposed to be tanky).

[akira_him]

I was using the word 'significant' in its 'noteworthy' sense.  I do consider the change to Venom (now Spore) and Contagion (now Toxic Lash) to be valuable buffs, especially the former.  The functionality of Miasma can be debated, some buffs to Molt desired, buffs to Saryn's health and movement wanted, but the overall rework is an upgrade over the previous incarnation of the frame.

 

It just needs to be ironed out to be made amazing.

 

it is in page 90 so I just quote it why toxic lash is a "meh" buff and the ability is still crap

 

 

It is useless if:

 

1.You do not want to melee at all something the ability forces you to do.

2. you face any higher leveled grinner or corpus, since while you wack at one group the other spread out groups will kill the S#&$ out of you from range.

3. consider that its blocking portion is less at 194% power strength aka 78% block then the basic blocking of a dragon nikana which is 85%

4. its single target and once you start to swing you can no longer block.

5. Saryn has 1 single option for CC and that is her ultimate. a energy intensive extremly short lived stagger that you cant mod to extend the stagger for. Nor does it work reliable. Both heavy gunners and bombards are out of the stagger with a single ground pound. so it they do that as you cast miasma you are out of luck.

6. Her survivability is S#&$, Molt cant stand up to level 42 enemies more then 2 seconds not to mention enemies in real content.

the shorter molt lasts the less healing you get from regenerative molt since you know healing ends instantly when the molt is destroyed.

7. Consider that the melee boost from lash to your melee is crap. We talk about a modifier of 1.39 at 130% power strength, 1.56 at 185% power strength, 1.72 at 239% power strength. That is laughable. Its so low and the difference between 130% power and 239 power is so damn low at 0.33 that its not even worth modding for.

 

And as Akira_him said its faster, safer and costs less energy to just pop the spores with ignis or haku prime with conceled explosives to name just a few weapons that scales with spore better then toxin lash ever will.

 

[DelialFallen]

 

it is in page 90 so I just quote it why toxic lash is a "meh" buff and the ability is still crap

 

 

 

 

I do agree the ability is ill suited to pop spores.  It is however a buff to Saryn's melee.  Granted, I've not actually tested a melee build in anything serious.

[Weltraumfred]

I like the idea of Molt functioning as trap that you can also remotely trigger by pressing 2 again. To increase the utility I'd add a slow effect to every enemy who is gassed.

 

If you'd like some additional functionality on Toxic Lash, add a small lifesteal effect or (better but propably more difficult to implement, also totally not my idea) let it regenerate health if you cause toxic procs with the power. Putting it on toggle with a really low drain would also be a huge QoL improvement.

 

Oh, yeah, and gimme moar armor and 150 health.

[(PSN)Draconis1981]

WARNING  RANT ! LOOK AWAY NOW THIS IS A RANT! YES A RANT LOOK AWAY NOW!

So another great frame nerfed into a complex mediocre one? I’m so sick of DE changing frames that where once god frames (with a lot of work mind you) into middle of the road ones. Nova, Loki, trinity, saryn, rhino all nerfed from their once amazing abilities to mehh. Even excal who received a massive buff only to be nerfed back down again.

 Why are you killing builds that are high damage and make us feel like all the work and forma we put into your game has not been worth it? Isn’t it about time you stopped nerfing our usable frames and guns and started giving us more reliable content and less buggy game play?

 Fix the damn first person glitch, sort out the dojos, do something with a star map that that is unplayed as there is no rewards worthy of end game players. A really quick fix would be to allow us to choose a harder difficulty for increased rewards. Stop punishing your core player base. We are the ones with the money, we have supported you and we are the ones who you should be trying to please. FIX THE BUGS. Stop nerfing our gear. We will just go find another frame and you have made another mastery rank fodder frame congratulations you have pleased the new players who have complained they can't nuke a room. Have you asked yourselves what that has actually done to your team based game?

Before a single saryn, with a team of noobs, could clear a survival or a defence really quickly. The new guys would be in awe of the mastery of the end game player helping them through difficult levels probably as they were new to his clan. The new guys would want that frame and the build to do that amazing damage. You gave the end game player a purpose and a feeling of accomplishment for formaing their frame and having a clever, high damage, room clearing build. Now fast forward you have taken yet another frame away that was capable of solo high damage to multiple enemies. Ask yourselves is this really what you want? Most of your players fall into 4 basic groups achieves, explorers, socialisers and killers

Killers are your pvp crowd so not talking about them, explorers well covered with kuria etc so not talking about them.

We are talking about achievers and to some extent socializers. I help run an old well respected moon clan. In that clan we have a well-rounded mix of old players new and the 4 groups above.  Part of being an old warframe vet is that I am an achiever and I like some aspects of the game outside that. However if you keep punishing one group you affect your games who dynamic. New players don’t have anyone to teach them, socializes don’t have anyone to talk to, killers stop playing because there’s no one to kill. You may keep the explorers but eventually you will lose them to fallout 4 etc.

 This is an old game. You have been at this for 2 years. I still buy your prime packs but I don’t buy them for me anymore. I buy them to give out prises and look after the new guys in my clan and socialize with my friends who I met in warframe. Sure I kick !, Sure I grind and farm but not because of the game or the content. It’s because I’m proud of my clan and its history. I’m happy to help my clan mates and keep up our good name in the community.

 I have put up with a lot from you. Warframe was a joke in the old days, glitchly, poor connectivity, bad updates that took forever to download. You have put some serious polish on your game since the old days, but 2 years on its time to really look at what your peddling. I think you have done a great job for the most part but you’re losing your way with these big reworks, nerfing some and buffing others. How long till frost is OP? Or nova or loki’s invisibility needs another nerf? STOP. Think. You don’t want to drive any more of us away. Respect your end game players and ignore the vocal minority who would have excal at base be your best frame. We have come up with many great builds and each time we find a way to get great damage you take it away, why? When your star map desperately needs a rework. Your dojos need to be more useful and integrated. The relays need to feel more alive and relevant. Most importantly your star map needs to be far more rewarding. Sort out your game play. Leave our stuff alone unless you’re improving it. We don’t want or need ‘rebalancing’ powers or weapons that do work. If you had just buffed saryn’s first two powers and left miasma alone you would have been legends. Think about it.

I’ve been here a long time, I will find another way to do what I always do. We will be here again after the next god frame is nerfed and we will do this dance again.

Edited November 9, 2015 by (PS4)Draconis1981

[Rhaenxys]

Toxic lash should be the main ability for survival, this may sound overkill but the damage reduction when blocking should be applied all the time, even without blocking, then raise her hp back to 150 and raise her armor to 225, that would be enough to go into melee range without too much risk.

 

Mesa is a range frame and have a more powerful DR shield, saryn playstyle desperately needs changes in survivability.

[Gregoriez]

Miasma has never been able to proc. Making assertions about features that never existed brings the legitimacy of a lot of these feedback posts into question.

Miasma used to deal corrosive damage, he isn't making it up. Edited November 9, 2015 by Gregoriez

[Weltraumfred]

I don't think it procced corrosive though.

 

I just think that it should do so now.

[hukurokuju5]

There should be more than just damage multiplier incentive to proc toxin and viral IMO..  Maybe add a bonus effect to targets that are under toxin and viral status simultaneously(small slow,armor reduction,small meleedamage multiplier, small energy restore)  in order to reward playmaking.

 

 

duration or the effect ( windows of opportunity)

magnitude of debuff (payoff)

Edited November 9, 2015 by hukurokuju5

[(XBOX)EmanuelMarion77]

Was Saryn mostley nefred and slightly buffed because of complaints of Miasma being OP until around lvl 45, or what was the reason behind nerfing energy cost,health and her 4th ability? I use to see Tenno complain about her survivability with a negative duration build so what sense does it make to nerf her 4 and reduce her health? I seriously do not understand Sayrn rework it seems the reason was to force you to have to use all 4 abilitys which honestley Spore and Miasma were her strongest the 2 I used anyway after lvl 45 but was it really nesassary to mess her up ... plus DE is still talking about muti-shot and damage mods being cut down, Id really like to know what is the motivation behind decreasing Warframes, Mods, and Weapons instead of increasing enemy difficulty? Would it not be a better solution to have Warframe abilitys scale to the lvl of enemy?

[(XBOX)EmanuelMarion77]

Was Saryn mostley nerfed and slightly buffed because of complaints of Miasma being OP until around lvl 45, or what was the reason behind nerfing energy cost,health and her 4th ability? I use to see Tenno complain about her survivability with a negative duration build so what sense does it make to nerf her 4 and reduce her health? I seriously do not understand Sayrn rework it seems the reason was to force you to have to use all 4 abilitys which honestley Spore and Miasma were her strongest the 2 I used anyway after lvl 45 but was it really nesassary to mess her up ... plus DE is still talking about muti-shot and damage mods being cut down, Id really like to know what is the motivation behind decreasing Warframes, Mods, and Weapons instead of increasing enemy difficulty? Would it not be a better solution to have Warframe abilitys scale to the lvl of enemy?

[Skadedyr]

I made a bunch of salty comments upthread on how Saryn is now S#&$. I want to add some constructive criticisms here:

 

Good things:

- Spore works fine

- Negative duration nuke Miasma needed to go, it was OP and frustrating for other players

 

Problems:

- Saryn is too fragile to use her powers efficiently, i.e. staying in the enemy fire while executing her combos, and melting her enemy over time

- Combos take too long to execute, teammates will usually blow the enemies up with faster and more efficient powers

- I made several runs on Draco, where I barely contributed anything to the fight

- she has no good role on a team, not as a tank, apart from her 1 she doesn't debuff/CC well, and DPS-wise she's also deeply suboptimal

 

Solutions:

Fragility

(I'd suggest using the first 2 options and either 3 or 4):

- reset base health to 150

- set armor to 300

- let Toxic Lash steal 1/2/3/5% life OR let it regenerate health based on the toxic procs she causes (I guess the first option is easier to implement)

- give Molt innate regeneration

 

Saryn's role

Okay, nuke frames are on their way out, so make her into an efficient debuffer with a dash of damage and tank instead (debuff cuz toxins weaken their vicitims):

- Spore is fine

- either give Molt 4 sec. invulnerability OR add slow-effect to everyone in range when Molt explodes, adding a possibility to remote-detonate the Molt by recasting, also let stretch affect the radius of the molt explosion

- turn Miasma into an armor corroding / stun power. Just let it do 200/ tick for 6 seconds (1400 total damage cuz tick at 0 seconds), and let it proc corrosive every time and stun the whole time

- If you don't add life steal on toxic lash (which I'd really recommend, see above) then let it slow procced enemies

- Your teammates will be thankful for a lot of viral'ed, corroded and slowed enemies

 

Qualitiy of life:

- turn Toxic Lash into a toggled power with a low drain, like 1.5/sec

- that would make executing combos easier

 

In this way, Saryn could tank a bit, debuff affecting speed, armor, and health of her enemies and do some damage with miasma herself (a lot if she pulls off a combo).

 

Having played Saryn 52% of my Warframe time (several hundred hours according my stats); I'm just going to quote this post first because I really like it.

 

I loved Saryn as a Nuke frame. I don't care if it was p4tw, she felt fun and rewarding for me and gave me a reason to use all kind of different (underpowered) weapons and playstyles just because I knew Miasma would save me when things went out of control. That said; I don't mind her reworks either, as long as they can give me a similar level of fun in return.

 

The text quoted above pretty much sums it up what I find standing in the way of that fun. Survivability being the greatest issue. I don't mind adapting a new play style with her and I even think the reworks are an improvement, but she has to be able to reach a similar level of effectiveness.

 

Right now I can get close enough, but that depends much more on the weapon loadouts I bring along and how I play her. In a way, for me, she has become less versatile (since I favor playstyle and weapon diversity above power diversity).

[Skadedyr]

Was Saryn mostley nerfed and slightly buffed because of complaints of Miasma being OP until around lvl 45, or what was the reason behind nerfing energy cost,health and her 4th ability? I use to see Tenno complain about her survivability with a negative duration build so what sense does it make to nerf her 4 and reduce her health? I seriously do not understand Sayrn rework it seems the reason was to force you to have to use all 4 abilitys which honestley Spore and Miasma were her strongest the 2 I used anyway after lvl 45 but was it really nesassary to mess her up ... plus DE is still talking about muti-shot and damage mods being cut down, Id really like to know what is the motivation behind decreasing Warframes, Mods, and Weapons instead of increasing enemy difficulty? Would it not be a better solution to have Warframe abilitys scale to the lvl of enemy?

 

I think the main reason for DE to "nerf" or debuff a lot of things recently is the growing complaint of power creep in Warframe. This has been a major concern for quite a while when almost everything new that came out surpassed the older stuff stat-wise. It seems they are actively working on that right now, which can also be noticed in most recent weapons no longer being the "newest god-tier in their class" when they come out.

[RealPandemonium]

I loved Saryn as a Nuke frame. I don't care if it was p4tw, she felt fun and rewarding for me and gave me a reason to use all kind of different (underpowered) weapons and playstyles just because I knew Miasma would save me when things went out of control. 

Posts like this highlight how bad the grind is in this game.  People are so afraid that they will lose rewards from failing missions that they feel they absolutely NEED the insurance provided by overpowered and exploitable options.  

[Culaio]

I think the main reason for DE to "nerf" or debuff a lot of things recently is the growing complaint of power creep in Warframe. This has been a major concern for quite a while when almost everything new that came out surpassed the older stuff stat-wise. It seems they are actively working on that right now, which can also be noticed in most recent weapons no longer being the "newest god-tier in their class" when they come out.

Power creep happens because of ridiculous armor scaling of enemies, in this game unless you bring very specific frame your cant go on very long endless solo runs unless you bring mandatory 4xCP aura's. for long solo run you must bring best frame and best weapons. Players like when game is hard but not unfairly hard, which is why they want to do endless missions since game is too easy for first 20 min, at around 30-35 mins its perfect difficulty(hard but fair) and after those 5 minutes(maybe a little more if bring best gear) armor scaling makes killing enemies hard(mostly annoying with how much ammo it takes to kill one bombard), people use best gear to maximize how long they can play in "perfect" difficulty

 

I agree power creep is a problem but I believe that excalibur is good example of how powerful any frame should be, I didnt see anyone complaining about power creepy when talking about excalibur.

Edited November 9, 2015 by Culaio

[akira_him]

Posts like this highlight how bad the grind is in this game. People are so afraid that they will lose rewards from failing missions that they feel they absolutely NEED the insurance provided by overpowered and exploitable options.

saryn was seldom used outside starchart, which is nearly impossible to fail in most cases unless you solo

your problem stated here is a non-existed issue since

1: people do void for endless will leave asap when they get what they wanted

2: there is nothing to lose before they get what they wanted in endless except time

3: nuke frame was a tool to speed up the tedious grind

it is nothing about insurance

Edited November 9, 2015 by akira_him

[RealPandemonium]

saryn was seldom used outside starchart, which is nearly impossible to fail in most cases unless you solo

your problem stated here is a non-existed issue since

1: people do void for endless will leave asap when they get what they wanted

2: there is nothing to lose before they get what they wanted in endless except time

3: nuke frame was a tool to speed up the tedious grind

it is nothing about insurance

Damage boosting frames like Nova and Rhino (who both happen to have godly CC) could easily boost Miasma's already significant damage (9540 for 25 energy, or 6840 with max range build) by 4x (38160 or 27360 with maxrange) or more, allowing for factory farming the void for a fairly long time.  Never mind that damage boosts weren't remotely necessary for non-endless T4 missions.  

 

Time is a precious real-life resource, far more precious than any virtual resource within the game; that's the reason people factory farm in the first place, and insurance is undoubtedly important when you've sunk an hour in one mission. 

[Eminem2420]

significant buffed overall? for just 1 functional buff of spore you call it overall buff

Eh, they buffed Toxic Slash a lot, and recently added more duration to Molt. Then there's the Spore buff you mentioned. Her Miasma got nerfed, yes, but the rest of her abilities got buffed.

[Vardog]

...10.2 Hotfix Feedback:

 

 

 

 

 

Saryn Changes

 

• 1. Reduced the particle FX on Saryn’s Spore when spreading between enemies to address performance issues.
• 2. Doubled the duration of Saryn’s Molt.
• 3. Saryn’s Spores now cost half normal energy when cast on Molt.
• 4. Destroying an enemy affected by Saryn’s Spores with Toxic Lash will now restore 2 energy to Saryn.
• 5. Saryn’s Toxic Lash can now be recast to refresh its duration.

 

 

1. Irrelevant to most people,

 

2. Also irrelevant, Molt's problem is not it's duration but that it can't last it's whole duration due to being too squishy, any decent level enemy will destroy Molt within a second, this 'buff' is completely pointless as it will serve no practical benefit to Saryn unless she'll hide her Molt in spots where enemies can't attack it but that would leave her open to enemy fire.

Molt needs to be able to last at least 10 seconds without getting blown away instantly to get value out of it across all dificulties.

 

3. Great, a very small step in the right direction, too bad we are still forced to cast a 50 Energy ability to get a cost reduction on a 25 energy one...This won't solve Saryn's energy problems.

 

4. Clear indication that you want Saryn to utilize her Melee prowess however unlike other Melee oriented Frames, Saryn has no means of survival in high level Melee combat, both her stats (relatively low Health and Armor) and her skillset prevent her from being a successful Melee Frame like Valkyr, Atlas, Rhino or Chroma. She has no CC/Status Immunity nor Damage Reduction (the Damage reduction while blocking is meaningless since you can't block attacks from all directions and you can't deal damage while blocking) to help her survive in Melee encounters.  She's still way too fragile to be a reliable Melee Frame.

 

The Energy restore functionality is also too gimmicky, it doesn't work most of the time since there are too many factors ranging from 'kill stealing' team-mates to your own Sentinel, that can prevent Saryn from being able to finish off an enemy with Toxic Lash. For this mechanic to work reliably it needs to be simplified to something like "Every enemy that had a Viral and a Toxic proc at the time of it's death, restores x Energy to Saryn".

 

5. Finally. Took you long enough.

 

 

Overall, not much has changed, she is still a Frame with no niche to fill.

Edited November 9, 2015 by Vardog

[MaverickZero]

17.10.2:

-The energy restored doesn't scale with anything (bug maybe?).

-Reduced cost on Spore+Molt setup is very nice.

-The energy restore starts good but then slowly becomes insufficient.

-Other people finishing off your targets robs you from all the energy.

-Molt double duration is next to worthless. It can't survive with its low as hell EHP.

 

Conclusion: needs more tweaks.

 

Still no buff to EHP or addition to Crowd Control.

Edited November 9, 2015 by MaverickZero

[(PSN)kira4715]

Lol a molt duration buff? Yeah molt totally needs more duration /s 

[saltrock0000]

17.10.2:

-The energy restored doesn't scale with anything (bug maybe?).

-Reduced cost on Spore+Molt setup is very nice.

-The energy restore starts good but then slowly becomes insufficient.

-Other people finishing off your targets robs you from all the energy.

-Molt double duration is next to worthless. It can't survive with its low as hell EHP.

 

Conclusion: needs more tweaks.

 

Still no buff to EHP or addition to Crowd Control.

+1 Step in the right direction.

[RealPandemonium]

Still no buff to EHP or addition to Crowd Control.

Saryn's CC is fine.  Molt has major CC potential when placed in the right places, and Miasma staggers last more than 4 seconds on humanoids (slightly less on others.)  CC should be a reactive thing you do to recover from or prevent a bad situation; it should not be a proactive nullification of all possible threat.