Warframe Nekros - Minions Counting For Shadow's Kill Count

[Cinix_Aquise]

Hello, I play Nekros as a combat summoner build and have noticed that at higher levels Nekros's shadows start killing more targets then I do (Not always but it happens) and I wanted to suggest that his Shadows' kills count towards the kill count for his Shadows of the Dead. So now both Nekros' kills and his shadows' kills restock his summon cache. This makes it easier for summoner builds to keep using their shadows of the dead ability in higher level areas.

 

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Due to the posts following this I have decided (to make it easier) list the current suggestions for Nekros up here.

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- Have a Counter of shadows stockpiled.

- Have Shadows' kills count towards Nekros' stockpile.

- Shadows Priority Fix (gunners prioritized over lancers, ect so they don't get dumped just because of an extra kill)
- shield Cap removed

- Shadows AI tweak

- Allow Eximus Units to be summoned

- Power Cap raised from 150 to to 225

- Soul Punch Dmg Based on enemy's MISSING health.

-Casting Soul Punch on an active Shadow kills it to restore health and energy to Nekros, allies, companions, and other Shadows.

-Killing an enemy with Soul Punch while Shadows of the Dead is active will replace a lost Shadow.

-Terrify will cause killed enemies to count twice toward Nekros's soul pool.

Edited December 9, 2015 by Cinix_Aquise

[KiloFoxx]

There also SHOULD be a counter for how many Shadows you have "stockpiled" so you know exactly when you're full and you can get the max out of your summon.

and prioritizing of stronger enemies. why should Butchers override Heavy Gunners just because they were killed next?

[Gurpgork]

Finally, somebody posted a Nekros thread I can agree with entirely. +1 to you, OP.

There also SHOULD be a counter for how many Shadows you have "stockpiled" so you know exactly when you're full and you can get the max out of your summon.

and prioritizing of stronger enemies. why should Butchers override Heavy Gunners just because they were killed next?

Also completely agree. In addition, the ability could really use an AI tweak, and allow you to summon Eximus units, which would hold even higher priority than heavy units.

[Cinix_Aquise]

Finally, somebody posted a Nekros thread I can agree with entirely. +1 to you, OP. Also completely agree. In addition, the ability could really use an AI tweak, and allow you to summon Eximus units, which would hold even higher priority than heavy units.

 

 

There also SHOULD be a counter for how many Shadows you have "stockpiled" so you know exactly when you're full and you can get the max out of your summon.

and prioritizing of stronger enemies. why should Butchers override Heavy Gunners just because they were killed next?

Yes, agree with both of you. Oh and Disciple, yes thank you for the Internet point :P

 

Seriousely though Nekros could use some tweaks like these, I feel that due to how often he just gets shunted to the side as a loot re-roller that the rest of him has been mostly ignored despite needing some real fixes and changes.

 

Oh also, yeah the joke is funny but at this point it's just a hinderance. Please remove the shield cap of 666 on Nekros. >.< I'd rather put a full shield mod on there and boost him past that thank you.

Edited December 9, 2015 by Cinix_Aquise

[Gurpgork]

Yes, agree with both of you. Oh and Disciple, yes thank you for the Internet point :P

 

Seriousely though Nekros could use some tweaks like these, I feel that due to how often he just gets shunted to the side as a loot re-roller that the rest of him has been mostly ignored despite needing some real fixes and changes.

 

Oh also, yeah the joke is funny but at this point it's just a hinderance. Please remove the shield cap of 666 on Nekros. >.< I'd rather put a full shield mod on there and boost him past that thank you.

You're very welcome.

 

Nekros generally getting ignored is one of my biggest annoyances with this game and its community. Since he has Desecrate, and the majority of people don't even touch the rest of his kit, there's next to no discussion on how to improve him. Shadows of the Dead could seriously be one of the best abilities in the game if it got the tweaks it so needs.

 

Honestly, the low shields don't bother me very much. I run Despoil on him with Equilibrium so I can use 55% efficiency and still have enough energy income to fuel my abilities, so I've only ever found use for Vitality. I would much rather have his power capacity raised to 150->225, on par with Ember and Nova and company. That would be a massive boon to him. You do have a good point, though. More shields certainly wouldn't hurt.

[Cinix_Aquise]

You're very welcome.

 

Nekros generally getting ignored is one of my biggest annoyances with this game and its community. Since he has Desecrate, and the majority of people don't even touch the rest of his kit, there's next to no discussion on how to improve him. Shadows of the Dead could seriously be one of the best abilities in the game if it got the tweaks it so needs.

 

Honestly, the low shields don't bother me very much. I run Despoil on him with Equilibrium so I can use 55% efficiency and still have enough energy income to fuel my abilities, so I've only ever found use for Vitality. I would much rather have his power capacity raised to 150->225, on par with Ember and Nova and company. That would be a massive boon to him. You do have a good point, though. More shields certainly wouldn't hurt.

I agree as well on the power capacity, I was just pointing out as a weird thing that no other frame out there has and should be removed. Nekros is the ONLY frame that has a cap to either shields or health.

 

But yes fixes needed. All ideas welcomed and would love to hear more and get more up here for the devs to read and see.

[Cinix_Aquise]

ANother thing to mention, Nekros' Soul Punch becomes near useless at later levels. I think like some of Rhino's abilities it should get changed to scale with WHAT you punch, making people pause and pick their targets since the punch will go through that target and hit others..

[Gurpgork]

ANother thing to mention, Nekros' Soul Punch becomes near useless at later levels. I think like some of Rhino's abilities it should get changed to scale with WHAT you punch, making people pause and pick their targets since the punch will go through that target and hit others..

I agree that something needs to happen with Soul Punch, but I don't know about that idea. The targeting with Soul Punch is unforgiving as it is, and forcing you to prioritize targets with it just makes the ability harder to use than it really needs to be.

 

I think that Soul Punch should do damage based on its target's missing hitpoints, so it becomes extremely powerful against targets who have low health, but won't do much against a very healthy target. It also needs its splash effect adjusted.

Edited December 9, 2015 by Gurpgork

[Cinix_Aquise]

I agree that something needs to happen with Soul Punch, but I don't know about that idea. The targeting with Soul Punch is unforgiving as it is, and forcing you to prioritize targets with it just makes the ability harder to use than it really needs to be.

 

I think that Soul Punch should do damage based on its target's missing hitpoints, so it becomes extremely powerful against targets who have low health, but won't do much against a very healthy target. It also needs its splash effect adjusted.

That is a beautiful idea. I'm updating the original post with that change.

[Gurpgork]

I have practically an encyclopedia of Nekros changes, but since I don't need to attempt to make this into an entire rework thread instead of just a couple nice changes to Shadows of the Dead, I'll keep it short.

 

-Casting Soul Punch on an active Shadow kills it to restore health and energy to Nekros, allies, companions, and other Shadows.

-Killing an enemy with Soul Punch while Shadows of the Dead is active will replace a lost Shadow.

-Terrify will cause killed enemies to count twice toward Nekros's soul pool.

[Cinix_Aquise]

I have practically an encyclopedia of Nekros changes, but since I don't need to attempt to make this into an entire rework thread instead of just a couple nice changes to Shadows of the Dead, I'll keep it short.

 

-Casting Soul Punch on an active Shadow kills it to restore health and energy to Nekros, allies, companions, and other Shadows.

-Killing an enemy with Soul Punch while Shadows of the Dead is active will replace a lost Shadow.

-Terrify will cause killed enemies to count twice toward Nekros's soul pool.

Really nice. Though that also makes me think Nekros needs a rework thread.

[Gurpgork]

Really nice. Though that also makes me think Nekros needs a rework thread.

I certainly agree with that. I made such a thread a couple months back.

If you want to take more that route with this thread, here are my suggestions for each ability. I don't think you should just copy/paste this to your OP, but feel free to adapt and use these ideas.

Soul Punch

-In addition to its base damage, now deals 0.2/0.4/0.6/0.8 toxin damage for every hitpoint the target has lost. This damage is unaffected by Power Strength.

-Now soft locks onto targets like Rip Line.

-Can be cast on the move and does not interrupt actions like reloading and firing.

-Knockdown area effect is now radial instead of conical, and deals 60% of its total damage to all enemies in its AoE.

Soul Survivor - Energy drain reduced to 50% current energy.

Terrify

-Range increased to 20 meters.

-Armor reduction increased to 50%.

-Now applies a 20% slow.

-Terrified enemies contribute twice to Nekros’s soul cache.

Desecrate

Option One (Adjustment)

-Now has a 100% success rate.

-No longer drops health orbs and loot. Instead, corpses will be destroyed for a burst in a 5 meter radius.

-Allies will regenerate 1% of their health and energy per second. This buff stacks indefinitely, and Nekros always receives the buff, regardless of range.

-Enemies will suffer a Toxin proc for 1% of their health. Stacks indefinitely.

Despoil - Unchanged.

Option Two (Replacement)

-Replaced with Death Mark.

-Costs 50 energy and affects all enemies within a 10 meter radius around the target area.

-50 meter cast range.

-Slows targets 20% for 15 seconds.

-Weapon damage dealt to marked enemies will heal nearby allies 2% of damage dealt.

-Compels nearby Shadows to attack Marked targets.

Despoil - Replaced with Cheat Death. Fatal damage taken by Nekros will be transferred to enemies afflicted with Death Mark. Damage transfer cannot kill enemies.

Shadows of the Dead

-Duration removed.

-Pressing 4 summons all existing Shadows to Nekros’s location.

-Holding 4 resummons lost Shadows, with cast varying based on resummoned Shadows..

-Soul cache increased to 40.

-HUD element added, showing number of active Shadows, as well as soul cache.

-Prioritizes heavy units and special units such as Nullifiers.

-Can summon Eximus units.

Edited December 10, 2015 by Gurpgork

[ashrah]

that would be really little add for nekro....

[Sorise]

You;ll love this ...

 

For Desecrate:

 

Range is now infinite

 

You now see an aura or hands where bodies once were as loot comes gushing out(keeps trying to take loot until it succeeds) after that the aura flies into Nekros buffing other abilities and serving as Shadows for Nekros with Heavy Units and Eximus Units taking priority. A new UI would tell you how much of each Heavy, Eximus, Normal units you absorbed.

 

Based on either duration(can be recast) or energy/health drain.

 

With Desecrate active:

 

Shadows grow stronger with each body on the ground or soul collected, for each body or soul, they move faster, shoot/swing faster and toss more grenades and use abilities more often as well as doubling the effect of auras.

 

There is a limit.

 

Following abilities don't use souls but are strengthen by their number:

 

Soul Punch now punches enemies in a straight line, the more souls absorbed via Desecrate, the more enemies get punched. If aim at the ground creates an aoe with its size that depends on # of souls.

 

Fear: Uses collects souls to strike fear into more than the default number of enemies Or with more souls collected, the greater the power of fear and images of fallen ones is used against the enemies. Enemies run like hell making them drop extra credits and fear spreads to nearby enemies.

 

Only Shadows use up souls and you can have a lot more souls then shadows you can summon.

 

You can also walk up to a shadow and hold 4 to adsorb him and replace him with a heavy unit.

 

You can also press 4 to teleport shadows to you and hold 4 away from shadows to absorb them and re summon them.

 

You don't have to re summon.

 

You can also aim and press 4 to tell the shadows where to shoot. Also aim and hold 4 to make the shadows go there.

 

You can make them shoot one guy or everyone in that area.

 

New alternate shadows effect, with desecrate active and enough souls absorbed, combine them all to form a big apparition behind you capable of heavy broad melee attacks that also auto block attacks from the from the front. Neckros moves faster as well.

 

 

Souls get eaten up to bring forth either the above or a dark spector with a blade.

 

Or both these as you can switch between them on the fly.

 

Press 3 and 4 together to accomplish this. Hold them both for the other effect.

[Cinix_Aquise]

Ignore this post when it happened was tired as S**T

Edited December 10, 2015 by Cinix_Aquise

[Cinix_Aquise]

I certainly agree with that. I made such a thread a couple months back.

If you want to take more that route with this thread, here are my suggestions for each ability. I don't think you should just copy/paste this to your OP, but feel free to adapt and use these ideas.

Soul Punch

-In addition to its base damage, now deals 0.2/0.4/0.6/0.8 toxin damage for every hitpoint the target has lost. This damage is unaffected by Power Strength.

-Now soft locks onto targets like Rip Line.

-Can be cast on the move and does not interrupt actions like reloading and firing.

-Knockdown area effect is now radial instead of conical, and deals 60% of its total damage to all enemies in its AoE.

Soul Survivor - Energy drain reduced to 50% current energy.

Terrify

-Range increased to 20 meters.

-Armor reduction increased to 50%.

-Now applies a 20% slow.

-Terrified enemies contribute twice to Nekros’s soul cache.

Desecrate

Option One (Adjustment)

-Now has a 100% success rate.

-No longer drops health orbs and loot. Instead, corpses will be destroyed for a burst in a 5 meter radius.

-Allies will regenerate 1% of their health and energy per second. This buff stacks indefinitely, and Nekros always receives the buff, regardless of range.

-Enemies will suffer a Toxin proc for 1% of their health. Stacks indefinitely.

Despoil - Unchanged.

Option Two (Replacement)

-Replaced with Death Mark.

-Costs 50 energy and affects all enemies within a 10 meter radius around the target area.

-50 meter cast range.

-Slows targets 20% for 15 seconds.

-Weapon damage dealt to marked enemies will heal nearby allies 2% of damage dealt.

-Compels nearby Shadows to attack Marked targets.

Despoil - Replaced with Cheat Death. Fatal damage taken by Nekros will be transferred to enemies afflicted with Death Mark. Damage transfer cannot kill enemies.

Shadows of the Dead

-Duration removed.

-Pressing 4 summons all existing Shadows to Nekros’s location.

-Holding 4 resummons lost Shadows, with cast varying based on resummoned Shadows..

-Soul cache increased to 40.

-HUD element added, showing number of active Shadows, as well as soul cache.

-Prioritizes heavy units and special units such as Nullifiers.

-Can summon Eximus units.

 

Hmmm also love how you tore descrate apart and made it a fun ability for a nekros that doesn't just sit around loot spamming >.<

[Gurpgork]

*Snip*

I like some of your ideas, and really like the general concept of Nekros becoming stronger as he absorbs more souls. That being said, the immediate problem that comes to mind is that it feels a lot more complicated to manage than it really needs to be. Aside from having a whole extra resource to worry about alongside health and energy, there's also so many controls you've added, and mostly to one key. Press 4, hold 4, aim and press 4, press 3 and 4 at the same time, walk up to Shadows and hold 4... Adding a hold mechanic to an ability is one matter, making one button do five or six different things with a bunch of different conditions is another matter entirely. It would be needlessly difficult if not entirely frustrating to keep track of all of them.

 

Also, making Desecrate a global, infallible, duration based loot machine just really seems like overkill. I'll spare you the loot ability rant (for now), but there is another tremendous issue at hand: This would destroy lower-ended computers. Causing a complex particle effect to appear anywhere on the map and most likely en masse is a bad move, and would cause a lot of frame rate problems that we really don't need. On the other hand, while it's great that you're trying to put synergy into this kit, this feels more like dependency than synergy. Saryn has this problem right now. Casting Spore on Molt is synergy, while needing to use both Spore and Molt to make Miasma do its full damage is dependency. Making Soul Punch have its primary effect directly tied to your use of Desecrate is dependency, not synergy.

 

There's also a couple miscellaneous problems there. You mention that a powered up Terrify would make enemies "run like hell", but this sounds like it does nothing to alleviate the common complaint with this ability, if not compound it: Having to chase down all those enemies is really annoying. Mixing in the spreading idea... That just sounds like Terrify would hinder more than help your team in most cases. Your alternate effect for Shadows of the Dead sounds cool, but also very situational. I can't really think of a time I'd rather have one melee based summon instead of many more summons that can all attack at range. If I was sacrificing my entire army of Bombard Emixi, what I got in return would have to be something seriously good as well as unique, and I'm not entirely sold on your giant shadowy apparition idea. It actually sounds a lot like the proposed Rumblers augment, which does sound useful, but not something I'd be willing to take in favor of a Bombard death squad.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to stomp on all your ideas, since you do have many great ones here, but I think it needs to be better refined. Move some of the functions of 4 to other keys. Make the Shadow absorption idea come from Soul Punch, for instance, or maybe make Soul Punch the tool you use to direct your Shadows. Your Desecrate dependency problem is an easier problem to solve. Add ways to get souls other than Desecrate. One way could be simply killing something, either with your weapons or your Shadows. Your ideas for Nekros could turn into a seriously awesome concept, they just need tweaks and adjustments. Not unlike Nekros himself, come to think of it. 

Edited December 10, 2015 by Gurpgork

[Sorise]

Fear doesn't have to cause fear, but panic making the enemies panic and shoot other enemies thinking their Tenno.

 

You can resummun shadows after you summon the apparition.

[Gurpgork]

 

Fear doesn't have to cause fear, but panic making the enemies panic and shoot other enemies thinking their Tenno.

 

You can resummun shadows after you summon the apparition.

So does that just make it a variant of Nyx's Chaos that spreads to unaffected enemies and reduces armor, or am I missing something? I am all for a buff to Nekros, but that sounds like making Terrify a better version of Chaos, and I would be strongly opposed to that. I'm honestly not sure what picture you're trying to paint of your ideal Terrify. Would it make some enemies attack each other and others flee? Would it only make them attack each other if charged with souls? 

 

Even if I can resummon my Shadows after I summon the apparition, why would I summon the apparition in the first place? Does it have unique abilities of its own? So far all I see is heavy melee attacks and blocking, as well as a speed boost to Nekros, which, while useful, still struggles to be more useful than the ability as it is now. If I want heavy melee units, I can summon Ancient Healers, who can give me damage mitigation and CC immunity, and I can summon them alongside other units that give me even more utility. What can the apparition do that a mixed squad of Ancient Healers, Nullifiers, and Bombards could not? Would it give me the same perfect blend of offense, defense, and utility?

Edited December 10, 2015 by Gurpgork

[Cinix_Aquise]

 

 

I agree with with you on the loot thing. I'd honestly love it if they removed desicrate entirely and replaced it with something else.

[Sorise]

You sure jumped to a lot of conclusions with Terrify. It simply makes enemies shoot other enemies and souls only effect the extra number of enemies effected.

 

The Apparition would auto summon the Shadow of an enemy killed by anyone, he moves fast, has a huge broad swing and enemies that go near him  gets terrified and make them shoot other enemies.

 

The apparition basically a more powerful Nekros which also soul punches with huge range knocking enemies down crippling their armor and shields and creating a field of dark flames melting anyone within that those that step inside.

 

Holding 1 commands him to soul punch. But he soul punches on his own. His soul punch has a wide range.

 

When his time is up, he causes a massive explosion destroying all armor and shields causing enemies to have Death proc which kills in a certain amount of time and those that enter the Death field get the Death proc as well.

 

He has a huge aoe attack which stuns enemies and draws out their health and he feeds on it healing himself and the Nekros. Hold Terrify to command him to do this as well but he does it himself.

 

He is immune to nullification since he is real and not some power. He is a Specter.

 

And waves come out of he sword which causes knock back. The wave length isn't that long, but quick and explodes causing damage and into smaller smaller shorter range projectiles.

 

He also casts Desecrate which forms a pool of darkness around him or wear he aims and sucks in enemies spitting out materials. he does this himself but you command him to do this as well by holding Desecrate.

 

You don't have hold for as long as Ivara has to with her 1st ability.

 

Hold any power button(except 4) and press 4 and to make him hover over you and you no longer have to hold any button to use his power.

 

He also causes enemies to shoot him instead but you both are linked so you take him damage but never bleed. He takes most of the damage.

I agree with with you on the loot thing. I'd honestly love it if they removed desicrate entirely and replaced it with something else.

Well, it's not going to go away until they solve the loot issue which they refuse too.

[Cinix_Aquise]

Well, it's not going to go away until they solve the loot issue which they refuse too.

It is a problem but that doesn't mean that Nekros should be just a loot frame. If they really want to aid the loot process but go with a frame aid they should remove Desicrate from Nekros, replace the ability and just make a loot frame. A frame that all it does is increase/renew drops, increase party chance to find rare resources/drops and maybe increase party crit? A luck frame if you will.

Edited December 11, 2015 by Cinix_Aquise

[Cinix_Aquise]

ALso to end that whole, 'Hold and hit this as well' for abilities. Remember Warframe is controller supported, any changes you make to the controls would have to transfer to the controller as well. And your whole, "Hold 4 then hit another ability" style wont transfer with their current set up. In short it's not going to be adopted.

[dregomz]

Well De should give nekros new agument which will give nekros additional summons for each summon kill + shadows should never disappear if they gonna get close to bubble.

[Burnthesteak87]

Nice ideas, but they've to be structured.

Throwing ideas in a bunch is nice and all, but having something concrete to reason with is better.

To promote a more active Nekros, it's also important Desacrate to become an upkeep aura, thus you're free to fight and kill enemies to fuel SotD instead than spamming Desacrate.
Also because it's not easy managing to survive on late game while being stationary casting Desacrate (being low HP for Despoil) or SotD.

Just for the sake of idea sharing I'll share the link to an Augments brainstorm of mine.
https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/462288-nekros-augments/#entry5145936

Edited January 22, 2016 by Burnthesteak87