Forma, Braton And Braton Vandal

[Meltina]

Vandal has another downside. You can always sell a braton when you get tired of it and buy it back if you ever want it again later. The vandal once you sell it its gone forever. It will sit there forever taking up a weapon slot.

[KvotheTheArcane1]

Vandal has another downside. You can always sell a braton when you get tired of it and buy it back if you ever want it again later. The vandal once you sell it its gone forever. It will sit there forever taking up a weapon slot.

I think it came with it's own slot, didn't it? Or am I thinking of the primes?

[IspanoLFW1]

I think it came with it's own slot, didn't it? Or am I thinking of the primes?

 

The Lato Vandal did, not the Braton.

[KvotheTheArcane1]

The Lato Vandal did, not the Braton.

ahh ok.

[MJ12]

Something that might fit someone's play style better. Something that gives one 3,000 Mastery Ranking that they might need to get a new rank(Obviosuly not ATM, enough to hit 10 just fine, not possible for 11 iirc). Fairness is all in how you look at it. Different is all it takes when it comes to in game stats.

 

And even if the Braton Vandal did 10 damage and had a fire rate of 1.0, using sniper ammo, it'd give that 3,000 Mastery Ranking. So that's not an argument against buffing the Vandal to rough DPS equivalence to the Braton.

[IspanoLFW1]

And even if the Braton Vandal did 10 damage and had a fire rate of 1.0, using sniper ammo, it'd give that 3,000 Mastery Ranking. So that's not an argument against buffing the Vandal to rough DPS equivalence to the Braton.

 

Only if they let it give 3,000 Mastery. It's likely a flag they can toggle, or something similar. Based off how they can restrict the starting weapon's Mastery Ranking til they reach a certain point,

 

And i'm going to repeat this. I will not ask that they change it, ranking removed, etc. I will not ask for it, or for it to be given out. I will not ask for anything of the sort. I dislike a company going back on their word more than Exclusive items being potentially better than in game items. I also dislike people who want their special toy to be better just because it's special. They want to be given a reason to use it. I'd use it just for the sound if it wasn't exclusive, or even if it was but was only Skin/Sound.

[Namacyst]

I try to repeat what this thread is about because my posts get dissected, twisted and turned into something very different and negative to what i tried to say.

 

I think the Brandal deserves a base damage and accuracy buff because it is in the same position now the normal Braton was when it got it's buff but for a different reason which is to stay true to "Vandal" as a trait that makes it different compared to a normal version of the same weapon type in terms of being a slower firing gun with a bigger punch. The reason for that is the fact that Braton got buffed to be on par with the Brandal and it was until Forma got released and a comparison of both guns on equal terms.. meaning full forma and same mods.. lets the Braton now come out ontop and therefor equality is not given anymore which was the prerequisite for the Braton buff in the first place. This in mind i think the Brandal deserves a buff in regards to it's traits and flavor text which was gently overlooked by Brandal-owners due to the fact that the Brandal was regarded as a better weapon still because of the polarity slot which has no special benefit anymore on the long run. Since the Braton buff basically screwed the Vandal trait over in having the same damage without the downside of lower fire rate and virtually the same accuracy it is just not fair anymore and a buff in base damage and accuracy for the Brandal , not only on paper but able to see ingame to make it different and a Vandal again compared to the Braton is more than adequate.

Edited June 5, 2013 by Namacyst

[Aggh]

 

Cannot agree, no matter what you try to put forth. No exclusive item should ever be better statwise than what can be obtained in game, and in some ways, the Vandals already are.

Ikr? God forbid there be an exclusive reskin with better stats compared to a basic gun that costs 25k credits :|

[Amistyrja]

I think you misread what i meant by lore or just did not understand. Same goes for my Braton more DPS? Yes but it was never supposed to be that way. Braton Vandal more Damage? No ..atleast not since the Braton Buff and after the Forma implementation the Vandal even tends to be worse than the normal Braton. All what made the Braton Vandal the intended better Braton has gone down the drain by now. that's what this thread is about. Braton Vandal deserves a buff like the normal Braton did back in the day.

I hope you don't mean to say that the Braton Vandal should be a direct and better upgrade than the regular Braton, because that's just... wrong. I do believe that the Vandal needs a damage buff to fit its description though.

[Namacyst]

 I do believe that the Vandal needs a damage buff to fit its description though.

That's all i'm saying.. it just came out wrong sometimes. Give it more base damage with higher accuracy as stated in the flavor text and its good.

[Namacyst]

btw. there's another Topic

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/58915-braton-vandal-a-balancing-suggestion/#entry615232

[ZWarhammer]

I don't get this post at all.

Just because some people did't play closed beta does't mean that they should only have access to inferior guns in every way!

Braton Vandal gives you a FREE polarity slot that's extra 20 platinum saved on polarizing it it also gives extra 3k mastery points and has better accuracy which this gun really does need to be effective at long range considering that with normal Braton you'd miss 4-6 (random number) that's already favoring the Vandal as a more potent weapon.

So what's next ? The founders packs also gonna end at some point and the starting skana might also get a buff so should i start complaining that my skana prime is't better in every way ? NO! it's supposed to be premium/exclusive golden swag nothing more!

How about when the beta ends and they give away another set of exclusive weapons for a single credit ? should those also be better than afterwise obtainable weapons ?

You can't keep doing that stuff cause the further down the line you go the less important new players will feel like.

Summary:

you're saying that since a weapon that you got for no effort whatsoever when you happened to be there at the right time is not superior in every way of the current weapons and since the gun description says it should be then you should just go bonkers ?

What about if someone polarized his weapon 6 times and potatoed it and that weapon got nerfed what then ? but that's okay right ?

-1

This is a free to play game you're not entitled to anything aside from your platinum purchases.( not stuff purchased by platinum just platinum itself)

[KvotheTheArcane1]

I don't get this post at all.

Just because some people did't play closed beta does't mean that they should only have access to inferior guns in every way!

We're not saying "buff vandal to OPness" but "make it on par with the braton"

 

 

Braton Vandal gives you a FREE polarity slot that's extra 20 platinum saved on polarizing it it also gives extra 3k mastery points and has better accuracy which this gun really does need to be effective at long range considering that with normal Braton you'd miss 4-6 (random number) that's already favoring the Vandal as a more potent weapon.

The difference is 4.7 (whatever they measure in), which when you fire in bursts, doesn't really matter, and when you fire full auto, accuracy goes right out the window. It's not a super accurate gun.

 

So what's next ? The founders packs also gonna end at some point and the starting skana might also get a buff so should i start complaining that my skana prime is't better in every way ? NO! it's supposed to be premium/exclusive golden swag nothing more!

Sure, if the start skana gets a buff, why not the prime skana? It still has to be a somewhat effective weapon, not worse than starter gear.

 

How about when the beta ends and they give away another set of exclusive weapons for a single credit ? should those also be better than afterwise obtainable weapons ?

No, they should be roughly equal in terms of DPS, maybe slightly worse to make up for the fact they'll probably have a polarity slot.

 

You can't keep doing that stuff cause the further down the line you go the less important new players will feel like.

So you should make older players feel like their rare gear is bad/useless compared to the same generic gear?

 

Summary:

you're saying that since a weapon that you got for no effort whatsoever when you happened to be there at the right time is not superior in every way of the current weapons and since the gun description says it should be then you should just go bonkers ?

Again, no. It should be roughly equal in terms of dps

 

What about if someone polarized his weapon 6 times and potatoed it and that weapon got nerfed what then ? but that's okay right ?

How is this relevant? The vandal got nerfed, which was ok, and then the braton got buffed which was ok, but then the vandal was nearly a downgrade to the braton (the difference is like .5 or something with crits factored in per bullet which is like 13.5 extra bullets I think.)

-1

This is a free to play game you're not entitled to anything aside from your platinum purchases.( not stuff purchased by platinum just platinum itself)

 

No arguments there. Except for the minus 1 obv.

Edited June 5, 2013 by KvotheTheArcane1

[plznohurtme]

I don't get this post at all.

Just because some people did't play closed beta does't mean that they should only have access to inferior guns in every way!

Braton Vandal gives you a FREE polarity slot that's extra 20 platinum saved on polarizing it it also gives extra 3k mastery points and has better accuracy which this gun really does need to be effective at long range considering that with normal Braton you'd miss 4-6 (random number) that's already favoring the Vandal as a more potent weapon.

So what's next ? The founders packs also gonna end at some point and the starting skana might also get a buff so should i start complaining that my skana prime is't better in every way ? NO! it's supposed to be premium/exclusive golden swag nothing more!

How about when the beta ends and they give away another set of exclusive weapons for a single credit ? should those also be better than afterwise obtainable weapons ?

You can't keep doing that stuff cause the further down the line you go the less important new players will feel like.

Summary:

you're saying that since a weapon that you got for no effort whatsoever when you happened to be there at the right time is not superior in every way of the current weapons and since the gun description says it should be then you should just go bonkers ?

What about if someone polarized his weapon 6 times and potatoed it and that weapon got nerfed what then ? but that's okay right ?

-1

This is a free to play game you're not entitled to anything aside from your platinum purchases.( not stuff purchased by platinum just platinum itself)

Try actually reading the posts before just spouting off whatever nonsense you feel like. The complaints come down to one thing very simply: The Braton Vandal as it stands right now is flat out worse than the Braton and there is no reason for this to be.

The Braton Vandal used to do more damage at a lower rate of fire and has always had "lower" dps (okay I lie I think it was 25 damage when it was released and shredded the world, but it was dropped pretty quickly) than the Braton (even before the buff) but the polarity offset it making the Braton Vandal better. The Braton was raised again in damage leaving the Braton Vandal further behind, but again the polarity offset it.

Now the polarity isn't relevant in the greater scheme of things, sure it saves you a few hours of Kiste runs and a Forma/20p, but as far as the actual weapons are concerned it's a non issue. The actual accuracy in game if you've used both of them is a complete utter wash unless you do nothing but hold down fire. The proposals here are to raise the damage on the Braton Vandal up, but not to make it "better" than the Braton, merely more competitive with it.

Very simply there is no reason for the Braton Vandal to not be made more competitive/different than the Braton. There is also 100% no reason for it to be better than the Braton, and I think it would be a disservice to the whole community for it to be, but it doesn't hurt anyone for them to be equal or at the very least closer together than they are now.

edit: to use your "Skana v Skana Prime" argument as a comparison:

This would be like DE going in and buffing the Skana to match melee/charge damage to the Skana Prime, but also making it swing and charge faster. That would be a really stupid change in that case as well. There's no reason whatsoever for the regular weapon to be better than the exclusive, same sure, better no.

Edited June 5, 2013 by plznohurtme

[Namacyst]

To be honest it would be definitely ok for the Brandal to be ~5% better than a normal Braton which is really not much and more a principle thing than actually a better performance because the Vandal is a special, optimized and improved Braton. Look at the Lato Vandal compared to the normal Lato. Vandal gear was intended to be better when it was released.. the only reason it is not anymore is because of whining, jealousy, grief and stupid reasoning. You saw alot of that in the "Buff the Braton threads" and you see alot if it against the Vandal buff in the new threads. This is still a non-competitive PvE game and a slightly superior Braton Vandal that is not available for anyone anymore does not hurt the gameplay.

[IspanoLFW1]

To be honest it would be definitely ok for the Brandal to be ~5% better than a normal Braton which is really not much and more a principle thing than actually a better performance because the Vandal is a special, optimized and improved Braton. Look at the Lato Vandal compared to the normal Lato. Vandal gear was intended to be better when it was released.. the only reason it is not anymore is because of whining, jealousy, grief and stupid reasoning. You saw alot of that in the "Buff the Braton threads" and you see alot if it against the Vandal buff in the new threads. This is still a non-competitive PvE game and a slightly superior Braton Vandal that is not available for anyone anymore does not hurt the gameplay.

 

Stupid reasoning, oh boy. Please go find me a game that gives exclusive items that are better than in game items. Also go find me one that does so for beta testers. I know not a single one that has done this. I've stated multiple times there are reasons they don't. Even in a co-op PvE game it DOES cause issues. It creates a divide amongst players. You have those with the "better" special weapon, and those without who can never obtain something of equality. And yes, without equal stats, it's not equal.

 

Not agreeing with you, whether it be a minor disagreement or not, is not stupid reasoning. At this point I'd rather they just destroy all the vandal and other exclusive weapons, then there is no discrepancy at all.

[Namacyst]

Stupid reasoning, oh boy. Please go find me a game that gives exclusive items that are better than in game items. Also go find me one that does so for beta testers. I know not a single one that has done this. I've stated multiple times there are reasons they don't. Even in a co-op PvE game it DOES cause issues. It creates a divide amongst players. You have those with the "better" special weapon, and those without who can never obtain something of equality. And yes, without equal stats, it's not equal.

 

Not agreeing with you, whether it be a minor disagreement or not, is not stupid reasoning. At this point I'd rather they just destroy all the vandal and other exclusive weapons, then there is no discrepancy at all.

Ya, we all got it by now that you are not agreeing with me.. doesn't change the fact that when you look at the changes that were made for sometimes questionable reasons over the past regarding Braton Buff and what place Vandal gear has in the game the Braton Vandal now is in a bad spot and in all fairness to ALL the players, not only the ones who don't own Vandal gear..it's now the Braton Vandal's turn to get a buff. I really don't give a S#&$ what other games do. This is Warframe so if you want to argue.. stick with it.

 

Vandal gear was released as Weapons, not skins and they have a right to be a choice of weapon for everyone who owns them if you measure it by performance. If i want to use a Braton and have the choice of normal or Vandal version i will choose the better one or atleast should not be forced to use the normal version over my earned special version because the standart Braton is much better. Same rights for everyone! I rather Buff one Weapon than deleting Vandal Gear, Founder Prime Gear and the Snipetron from everyones accounts because ya.. reasoning that way would be stupid.

 

There is already a divide, it was there from the start and will continue to be there. Founders and non-founders, free players and the ones with plat, Closed Beta testers with Vandal Gear and open Beta players. Every one of them has the same rights as the other. Last time the non-beta testers got their Braton buff.. now it's the Vandal owning beta-testers turn.

Edited June 5, 2013 by Namacyst

[IspanoLFW1]

Ya, we all got it by now that you are not agreeing with me.. doesn't change the fact that when you look at the changes that were made for sometimes questionable reasons over the past regarding Braton Buff and what place Vandal gear has in the game the Braton Vandal now is in a bad spot and in all fairness to ALL the players, not only the ones who don't own Vandal gear..it's now the Braton Vandal's turn to get a buff. I really don't give a S#&$ what other games do. This is Warframe so if you want to argue.. stick with it.

 

Vandal gear was released as Weapons, not skins and they have a right to be a choice of weapon for everyone who owns them if you measure it by performance. If i want to use a Braton and have the choice of normal or Vandal version i will choose the better one or atleast should not be forced to use the normal version over my earned special version because the standart Braton is much better. Same rights for everyone! I rather Buff one Weapon than deleting Vandal Gear, Founder Prime Gear and the Snipetron from everyones accounts because ya.. reasoning that way would be stupid.

 

There is already a divide, it was there from the start and will continue to be there. Founders and non-founders, free players and the ones with plat, Closed Beta testers with Vandal Gear and open Beta players. Every one of them has the same rights as the other. Last time the non-beta testers got their Braton buff.. now it's the Vandal owning beta-testers turn.

 

First, your quote about being forced to use the normal version. How very childish, everyone else practically has to use the "normal" version. Your special toy doesn't need to be better to use it. You only want it to be better so you can use it by your reasoning. In a game with a ranking(Not Mastery), potential leaderboards, and other such things, exclusive items having better stats than non exclusive is ALWAYS a bad idea. Period.

Edited June 6, 2013 by IspanoLFW1

[Enot83]

Try actually reading the posts before just spouting off whatever nonsense you feel like. The complaints come down to one thing very simply: The Braton Vandal as it stands right now is flat out worse than the Braton and there is no reason for this to be.

The Braton Vandal used to do more damage at a lower rate of fire and has always had "lower" dps (okay I lie I think it was 25 damage when it was released and shredded the world, but it was dropped pretty quickly) than the Braton (even before the buff) but the polarity offset it making the Braton Vandal better. The Braton was raised again in damage leaving the Braton Vandal further behind, but again the polarity offset it.

Now the polarity isn't relevant in the greater scheme of things, sure it saves you a few hours of Kiste runs and a Forma/20p, but as far as the actual weapons are concerned it's a non issue. The actual accuracy in game if you've used both of them is a complete utter wash unless you do nothing but hold down fire. The proposals here are to raise the damage on the Braton Vandal up, but not to make it "better" than the Braton, merely more competitive with it.

Very simply there is no reason for the Braton Vandal to not be made more competitive/different than the Braton. There is also 100% no reason for it to be better than the Braton, and I think it would be a disservice to the whole community for it to be, but it doesn't hurt anyone for them to be equal or at the very least closer together than they are now.

edit: to use your "Skana v Skana Prime" argument as a comparison:

This would be like DE going in and buffing the Skana to match melee/charge damage to the Skana Prime, but also making it swing and charge faster. That would be a really stupid change in that case as well. There's no reason whatsoever for the regular weapon to be better than the exclusive, same sure, better no.

Yah skana vs skana prime is a terrible example.

Skana is a starter weapon. Like the Mk1 Braton.

The Cronus would have been the more apropo comparison. Despite its name difference, it would take an idiot to argue that its not the next logical step up from the skana, just like the braton to the mk1.

I'm not even sure why that person tried to compare skana to skana prime, prime isn't even exclusive (I should say yet!), and its outmatched by something you get within like 5 missions.

Namacyst, lets do just that, lets look at the Lato line compared to eachother.

Since for the skana etc it would have been better to bring up this progression... left is no reload, right is reload.

Lato 162.81 dps \\ 106 dps

Aklato 201.7 dps \\ 123.2 dps

Lato Prime 183.1 dps \\ 119.24 dps

Lato Vandal 155.625 dps \\ 107.1 dps

Ignoring accuracy as this is up for debate and until factual data can be supplied via video, picture, developer disclosure on spread difference etc, its speculation. What my math before shows as I described, if accuracy, effects spread so that 5% or more bullets miss between the less accurate and more accurate weapon, the more accurate weapon, will infact do more damage. The math was done, arguing that accuracy has no bearing in sustained fire is outright wrong and stupid, arguing what the difference in the accuracy is when in sustained fire is completely valid.

There are a few ways to examine this. The Lato, is it equivalent to the MK-1 Braton since these are both starter weapons, as such should the weapons be examined in that style of ordering as to what is the next equivalent upgrade? If so comparison of the Braton to the Braton Vandal should be equivalent to that of the Aklato to Lato Vandal.

If it should be done by namesake, then compare the difference between the Lato and Lato Vandal, (which begs to ask, why no MK1 Lato? or why have an MK1 Braton?) If you compared the two appropriately you'll immediatly notice the difference some of you really want to grab at, that damage per round! Well, lets see, not only does the Lato Vandal have a higher damage per round, it also has a higher crit chance variance. However, it is still only a ~1% damage difference (not your proposed 5%), the reason of course being that the design of the original Braton Vandal, did not have similar figures for ROF, to accomplish a similar effect as the Lato/Lato Vandal, the ROF would need to be knocked down to a minimum of 8.4 and potentially lower dependent on how they would handle the damage increase.

Yes pistols are different and having duals is part of their class, though, due to this, we are offered an alternative that clearly beats out the Vandal weapon, and is of the "same" weapon, where is this missing link that should be comparable and potentially factored in? How should it factor in? As they have done it currently (current Braton/Braton Vandal stats) or some other method.

Please confirm

In addition, the introduction of the Lato Prime, was during Closed Beta, with the founder pack, and available prior to the Lato Vandal, and also still available, if you bring money into it, then you have to consider money due to less forma required for the Vandal's, you don't get it one way but not the other, unless you want to look stupid, which by all means do so. Basically, where is my Braton Prime then hmm?

Also, the Braton Vandal was not a reward for helping with closed beta, that was the Lato Vandal, the Braton Vandal was available during the closed beta, and an open weekend occured during this time. If you have facts that contradict this, please present them.

Now that I've made the argument for all the Braton Vandal lovers, the one that actually looks at some precedent for what could be done, what is next? Do you all just glom onto it because I said higher damage?

Does it get ridiculed because lower ROF?

Its not the solution a small group of people want?

Do you actually examine other balancing mechanics from other aspects?

Do you consider that it is comparing a starter weapon to a Vandal, not a purchased weapon?

I'm curious to see, I have my reservations but I'm always willing to see if I'll be surprised.

Can't believe none of you had the common sense to build your argument with good precedent. (Or perhaps I missed this in one of the numerous posts? I don't think I've seen any real information regarding it though that actually examined the differences, other than cursory glances that ignore other aspects).

Edited June 6, 2013 by Enot83

[ZWarhammer]

Try actually reading the posts before just spouting off whatever nonsense you feel like. The complaints come down to one thing very simply: The Braton Vandal as it stands right now is flat out worse than the Braton and there is no reason for this to be.

The Braton Vandal used to do more damage at a lower rate of fire and has always had "lower" dps (okay I lie I think it was 25 damage when it was released and shredded the world, but it was dropped pretty quickly) than the Braton (even before the buff) but the polarity offset it making the Braton Vandal better. The Braton was raised again in damage leaving the Braton Vandal further behind, but again the polarity offset it.

Now the polarity isn't relevant in the greater scheme of things, sure it saves you a few hours of Kiste runs and a Forma/20p, but as far as the actual weapons are concerned it's a non issue. The actual accuracy in game if you've used both of them is a complete utter wash unless you do nothing but hold down fire. The proposals here are to raise the damage on the Braton Vandal up, but not to make it "better" than the Braton, merely more competitive with it.

Very simply there is no reason for the Braton Vandal to not be made more competitive/different than the Braton. There is also 100% no reason for it to be better than the Braton, and I think it would be a disservice to the whole community for it to be, but it doesn't hurt anyone for them to be equal or at the very least closer together than they are now.

edit: to use your "Skana v Skana Prime" argument as a comparison:

This would be like DE going in and buffing the Skana to match melee/charge damage to the Skana Prime, but also making it swing and charge faster. That would be a really stupid change in that case as well. There's no reason whatsoever for the regular weapon to be better than the exclusive, same sure, better no.

My main point was that braton Vandal gives enough benefits to offset the effort it required to obtain it.

I would agree that comparing it to skana prime was a bad idea cause the difference is 1 credit vs 100$ but you get the idea.

Not counting the different costs of obtaining skana prime it's gonna be gone from the pool at some point and there might be a better starting melee weapon introduced. So does that render skana prime useless ? NO!

Edited June 6, 2013 by ZWarhammer

[Namacyst]

First, your quote about being forced to use the normal version. How very childish, everyone else practically has to use the "normal" version. Your special toy doesn't need to be better to use it. You only want it to be better so you can use it by your reasoning. In a game with a ranking(Not Mastery), potential leaderboards, and other such things, exclusive items having better stats than non exclusive is ALWAYS a bad idea. Period.

I wonder if you can make a post without calling anyone anything just because it's not your point of view. Jeez. Sure everyone has to use the normal Braton if they don't own the Vandal but those players who DO own it have to choose the normal Braton over the Vandal aswell if they want the best performance (of a Braton) and if we talk equality here that's unfair.

 

I'm fine with Braton Vandal being exactly as good as the normal Braton and of course i'm fine with it being a bit better because it makes sense in being a specialized, optimized and improved version of a weapon but don't care which will happen as long as the Vandal is not worse than the normal Braton.

 

The fact that you have to pull leaderboards out of your nose now to make a point is laughable and has nothing to do with this Topic whatsoever because it only measures kills you can do with every gun and best by pressing "4" on your Ae Warframe. Up until now your argumentation was good and you made interesting points but this is a joke.

Edited June 6, 2013 by Namacyst

[plznohurtme]

Please confirm

In addition, the introduction of the Lato Prime, was during Closed Beta, with the founder pack, and available prior to the Lato Vandal, and also still available, if you bring money into it, then you have to consider money due to less forma required for the Vandal's, you don't get it one way but not the other, unless you want to look stupid, which by all means do so. Basically, where is my Braton Prime then hmm?

Also, the Braton Vandal was not a reward for helping with closed beta, that was the Lato Vandal, the Braton Vandal was available during the closed beta, and an open weekend occured during this time. If you have facts that contradict this, please present them.

Now that I've made the argument for all the Braton Vandal lovers, the one that actually looks at some precedent for what could be done, what is next? Do you all just glom onto it because I said higher damage?

Does it get ridiculed because lower ROF?

Its not the solution a small group of people want?

Do you actually examine other balancing mechanics from other aspects?

Do you consider that it is comparing a starter weapon to a Vandal, not a purchased weapon?

I'm curious to see, I have my reservations but I'm always willing to see if I'll be surprised.

Can't believe none of you had the common sense to build your argument with good precedent. (Or perhaps I missed this in one of the numerous posts? I don't think I've seen any real information regarding it though that actually examined the differences, other than cursory glances that ignore other aspects).

You're correct about the Primes, as for the Braton Vandal it was made available over the first open beta weekend to anyone for those 2-3 days for 1 credit as a open beta reward/incentive.

Yeah I still don't know why anyone thinks the Braton Vandal should be "better" than the Braton. Until it *really* matters I will use the Braton Vandal every time (I'm still hoping something better than both just arbitrarily comes out), but I really still want it to be differentiated from the standard Braton. That's why my original suggestion was for raising the Braton Vandal to 25 damage, but dropping the rate of fire to 8.4.

The Lato vs Lato Vandal also shows this precedent, the two are very close to each other in terms of dps while the Braton and Braton Vandal are not.

 

My main point was that braton Vandal gives enough benefits to offset the effort it required to obtain it.

I would agree that comparing it to skana prime was a bad idea cause the difference is 1 credit vs 100$ but you get the idea.

Not counting the different costs of obtaining skana prime it's gonna be gone from the pool at some point and there might be a better starting melee weapon introduced. So does that render skana prime useless ? NO!

How it's obtained has nothing to do with it, it's the usability factor. If you have both, or can easily get both and haven't extremely invested in the "wrong" one the Braton is always the better choice. You may think that it gives enough benefits to offset the "effort" to obtain it, but I just see it as a weapon that is needlessly inferior. Again there is 100% zero cause for it to be better than the Braton, however there isn't any reason that the two shouldn't be closer together in dps and actually allowing the two to be different weapons (read my above example).

[IspanoLFW1]

I wonder if you can make a post without calling anyone anything just because it's not your point of view. Jeez. Sure everyone has to use the normal Braton if they don't own the Vandal but those players who DO own it have to choose the normal Braton over the Vandal aswell if they want the best performance (of a Braton) and if we talk equality here that's unfair.

 

I'm fine with Braton Vandal being exactly as good as the normal Braton and of course i'm fine with it being a bit better because it makes sense in being a specialized, optimized and improved version of a weapon but don't care which will happen as long as the Vandal is not worse than the normal Braton.

 

The fact that you have to pull leaderboards out of your nose now to make a point is laughable and has nothing to do with this Topic whatsoever because it only measures kills you can do with every gun and best by pressing "4" on your Ae Warframe. Up until now your argumentation was good and you made interesting points but this is a joke.

 

I didn't call you anything. I said the comment itself was childish, because it is. I also said potential leaderboards, because about the only time it made a difference so far, at least since i've played, has been the Moa event.

 

Good and interesting points? You've fought everything i've said til now.

[IspanoLFW1]

Yeah I still don't know why anyone thinks the Braton Vandal should be "better" than the Braton. Until it *really* matters I will use the Braton Vandal every time (I'm still hoping something better than both just arbitrarily comes out), but I really still want it to be differentiated from the standard Braton. That's why my original suggestion was for raising the Braton Vandal to 25 damage, but dropping the rate of fire to 8.4.

 

That could actually make it much better than it is now, especially if you use it for things other than close/mid range spraying. It makes the small accuracy difference, even more potent since each round is now worth more.

[Namacyst]

I didn't call you anything. I said the comment itself was childish, because it is. I also said potential leaderboards, because about the only time it made a difference so far, at least since i've played, has been the Moa event.

 

Good and interesting points? You've fought everything i've said til now.

The thing is you argument with other games, potential stuff and possible whatevers but you fail to look at it at it is now. If you look in the past you will see this:

 

The Braton Vandal was released and had 25 Damage compared to 18 of the Braton because it was intended as the better Braton. It was nerfed down to 23 in Update 7 to mach the nerfs most other guns got because they adjusted the damage for the new mod system and it was still the better Braton... as intended. Later it was nerfed to 20 because people complained but it was still the better Braton... as intended. The Braton Vandal owners did not mind all of that because the Braton Vandal stayed true to it's flavor text and it's Vandal traits.. being the better Braton. Braton got Buffed to 20 because people continued to complain and still... barely noticable.. the Vandal was the better Braton only due to it's Polarity slot and even then the Braton Vandal owners did not spam the Forums with complain threads like the ones which lead to the Braton now having the same damage even if it's "just" a normal gun.

 

Now the Braton Vandal is worse than the normal one because of Forma which makes the Braton in nearly every aspect better when you format her once. Now it's time to buff the Braton Vandal for a change.. that's what this Thread is about and in my opinion that's just fair because over the course of balancing the aspect of the Braton Vandal being "a Vandal" was left in the dust to please the open-beta folks and in terms of fairness the closed-beta players who like their Vandal and in a way are proud to have it got left behind.

 

Yes i fought mostly everything what you said because i don't agree with you. That's how discussions work ;)

Edited June 6, 2013 by Namacyst