Nekros Rework

[TwiceDead]

 

41 minutes ago, (PS4)meeeone said:

Spoiler

 

You mean like mesas 360° peacemaker?

I'm afraid i must disagree.

Desecrate gives 0 OP killing benefits like peacemaker did,it's exclusively PvE.

And seeing as it isn't game breaking,it's fine.

If it caused 10 resources to spawn per dead enemy then it should be nerfed not removed.

I  however use desecrate in a supportive function...Providing health and energy to allies that would otherwise run out of both.  

The loot for me is just an added reward for teamwork.

 

 

"I however use desecrate-" yada yada, save it. I apologize for the condescending tone, but honestly dude, I am tired of "That's not how I-" arguments that are mostly made by players interested in the niche. Not that this is a bad thing, you play how you want, but like every game, people will meta the S#&$ out of it, and Nekros position in the meta right now is completely flawed.  

It doesn't matter how you personally use it, when most people specifically request a specific kind of Nekros, and that is the kind that is put on Desecration Duty. The problem isn't that it's game-breaking, it's that it gives people the wrong incentives to use a frame. You should use a frame for what it brings to you, your team, and how it plays, not because it gives you more loot.

The other day I hosted a survival mission with no strings attached, I requested nothing specific from anyone and let people play how they wanted, there was a Nekros in the group. Later on in the game, the Nekros got yelled at by an Excalibur because he wasn't desecrating, the Nekros wasn't running a desecration build, and the two started bickering like children, even going as far as comparing kills (they all lost to me ofc), I tried to tell them to forget about it, but they just kept going on and on to the point where the Nekros @(*()$ left.

People have come to expect Nekros to desecrate all the @(*()$ time apparently, and nobody wants him for any other reason.
Case in point: I joined a defense the other day, and the guy hosting wouldn't allow another player to play Nekros because "He couldn't kill fast enough" and the waves would "Take too much time". BullS#&$. Bring a good gun and with a little aim you'll kill more than enough, people don't seem to comprehend this. 

You could boil it down to these people being $&*^s(bad people), but these $&*^s got their expectations from somewhere, I.E the game and it's meta, they didn't magically get these thoughts conjured into their brains through sorcery or mind-control. 

 

Edited March 11, 2016 by TwiceDead
These forum controls are murdering my braincells... Also some clarification was made, because of the profanity filter.

[(PSN)meeeone]

18 minutes ago, TwiceDead said:

 

"I however use desecrate-" yada yada, save it. I apologize for the condescending tone, but honestly dude, I am tired of "That's not how I-" arguments that are mostly made by players interested in the niche. Not that this is a bad thing, you play how you want, but like every game, people will meta the S#&$ out of it, and Nekros position in the meta right now is completely flawed.  

It doesn't matter how you personally use it, when most people specifically request a specific kind of Nekros, and that is the kind that is put on Desecration Duty. The problem isn't that it's game-breaking, it's that it gives people the wrong incentives to use a frame. You should use a frame for what it brings to you, your team, and how it plays, not because it gives you more loot.

The other day I hosted a survival mission with no strings attached, I requested nothing specific from anyone and let people play how they wanted, there was a Nekros in the group. Later on in the game, the Nekros got yelled at by an Excalibur because he wasn't desecrating, the Nekros wasn't running a desecration build, and the two started bickering like children, even going as far as comparing kills (they all lost to me ofc), I tried to tell them to forget about it, but they just kept going on and on to the point where the Nekros @(*()$ left.

People have come to expect Nekros to desecrate all the @(*()$ time apparently, and nobody wants him for any other reason.
Case in point: I joined a defense the other day, and the guy hosting wouldn't allow another player to play Nekros because "He couldn't kill fast enough" and the waves would "Take too much time". BullS#&$. Bring a good gun and with a little aim you'll kill more than enough, people don't seem to comprehend this. 

You could boil it down to these people being $&*^s(bad people), but these $&*^s got their expectations from somewhere, I.E the game and it's meta, they didn't magically get these thoughts conjured into their brains through sorcery or mind-control. 

 

>Says you should play with a frame for what it brings.

>Bringing loot doesn't count.

>Bringing health and energy orbs doesn't count.

Ok,so you've had some bad personal experiences.

But judging everything you want changed in such a way is a flimsy argument.

It's like trying to get novas' ult removed because slovas are more in demand.

Players know what they want and they know who to go to.

Easier kills? Nova

Protective shield? Frost

Energy+Healing? Trinity 

Loot? Nekros + Hydroid  (pilfering swarm)

 

It speaks volumes to how Nekros is popular for loot.

Even though modded hydroid has a 100% chance for extra loot to Nekros 90%,Nekros is still sought out.

It's because players trust Nekros to such a degree they desire his aid.

 

 

 

[Doomclaaw]

Ok ok lets stay on topic, don't wanna get this thread closed. Both arguments are valid. I agree with meeeone, as I simply find the support part of desecrate too valuable to leave behind but I also see where you're coming from TwiceDead.  I think that simply changing the execution of the skill would go a loooong way to liberating ol Bone Daddy from being a loot slave. Then you'd have the best of both worlds. Someone wants a loot machine? Fine, but I'm gonna be doing other stuff at the same time and having fun doing it rather than sitting at my desk in the corner punching #3 while everyone else has fun murdering stuff. I think that is the main reason for a petition to change it to a channeled/upkeep skill. I just went a bit of a different direction on mine but still kept the same idea of freeing up the "sit-n-spam" role we have now, which I think everyone is hoping for. 

[Doomclaaw]

Now is a good time to go ask questions about nekros rework in the dev stream Q&A thread! 
https://forums.warframe.com/topic/625978-coming-soon-devstream-71/.

 

Please link this thread we have started so we get some visibility on it

[Doomclaaw]

So after Scott saying he wasn't planning removing how Desecrate works as a loot generator, I think we need to focus more on how Desecrate is exectued as a skill now and continue to push for more of a channeled/upkeep type skill. Keep in mind any suggestions we make have to also work with the augment, especially since that augment is one of the best mods nekros currently has (my own opinion on it anyway).  The fact we're stuck in place spamming a key is what holds us back from more dynamic play and causes other players to QQ over us not giving up our spot in the combat to regurgitate more loot for them. I'm still going to stand behind my idea of Desecrate, but would be interested to see what others come up with for it. I know his other skills still need polish but right now this is the biggest thorn in our side as nekros players.

[MarcusGraves]

Sometimes I wonder what Desecrate would be like if it instead functioned like a large radius debuff, kinda like Ember Accelerant, where tagged enemies that die do the drop roll instead of Nekros having to stand there casting 3 over and over. This would also give them a reason to speed up the animation because it would become more of a pre to mid combat power.  I'm also still an advocate of the power having an average chance to raise killed enemies as shadows.

Nekros can be a lot cooler than the mere loot bot he's been reduced to.

[Gurpgork]

1 hour ago, Zorrandor said:

The fact we're stuck in place spamming a key is what holds us back from more dynamic play and causes other players to QQ over us not giving up our spot in the combat to regurgitate more loot for them.

This is only half the problem with Desecrate, and making it a toggled aura isn't going to touch on the other half at all: It has no place in his kit. It adds nothing to his minion master playstyle, since it provides literally the only form of support that can't assist companions. Its support for players is also rather mediocre, since health orbs are extremely mediocre compared to just about anything that provides a direct heal, and it isn't more likely to produce items that are actually helpful, like ammo and energy orbs. 

Making it a toggled aura would more just make it not inhibit dynamic play. It wouldn't make the ability interesting, it wouldn't make it fun to use, and it wouldn't make it cohere with the rest of his abilities. It would just be buffing the ability for the sake of buffing it.

[(PSN)Crimson_Judgment]

3 hours ago, Gurpgork said:

This is only half the problem with Desecrate, and making it a toggled aura isn't going to touch on the other half at all: It has no place in his kit. It adds nothing to his minion master playstyle, since it provides literally the only form of support that can't assist companions. Its support for players is also rather mediocre, since health orbs are extremely mediocre compared to just about anything that provides a direct heal, and it isn't more likely to produce items that are actually helpful, like ammo and energy orbs. 

Making it a toggled aura would more just make it not inhibit dynamic play. It wouldn't make the ability interesting, it wouldn't make it fun to use, and it wouldn't make it cohere with the rest of his abilities. It would just be buffing the ability for the sake of buffing it.

The Journey of 1000 miles Begins with the first step XD

[Doomclaaw]

still waiting on that counter for shadows. Small steps first right?

[(PSN)Crimson_Judgment]

Alright According to PS4 Patch notes Enemies killed by shadows add to his SotD Pool a nice change and comes in handy so there's almost no need to Recharge SotD between casts very nice

Anybody Try him out with Health or energy conversion build Seems like it would work very well on Paper I'm still farming out Simaris Rep for them

[Doomclaaw]

So since we got one thing we've been asking for in the form of Terrify slowing enemies (granted it was via a syndicate augment which is stressed should not be how it was implemented- but hey we got it!) I think we should refocus on mainly desecrate (which I think most of us agree lies in how it forces you to stay rooted in place casting instead of participating in the game), some more utility for soul punch (see the awesome ideas presented in earlier posts above), and that shadow pool counter so we know how many shadows we have stored up and active. 

 

 

And yes I necro'd this thread....I am a nekros main after all!

[kleerr2]

I just wish SoTD got a few QoL changes like:

-Better AI.

-Health of shadows removed, as they are shadows they should not really be killable so, duration only.

- Shadows that wonder off over 50m are spawned at your current position. That way venturing tilesets does not make the ability's productiveness impending.

Overall SoTD is probably the most fun to use skill for me.

 

[MindHoney]

5 hours ago, kleerr2 said:

- Shadows that wonder off over 50m are spawned at your current position.

 

Can I just point out melee shadows?

[kleerr2]

2 hours ago, MindHoney said:

Can I just point out melee shadows?

Maybe lock them out of the respawn while a melee attack is in progress. Even without it 50m is more than enough(it is the range of it's augment), if they did not make it in time, then they did not really have to, and i can live with that. If i have to choose between a mele shadow kiling an enemy on the other side of the map, and having that bonus 6% dmg absorb, then the answer is already made...

[Doomclaaw]

Why are there stickies for other frame reworks (including ones that have already received their goodies) but not one for nekros? Just tossing that out there...