Did De Ruin Roll Jumps By Mistake Or By Intent?

[Kelkha]

This slide jumping makes the game lose immersion, and it turned out an exploit, sucks watching people just spamming that move, as for the slide and jump move, is also  immersion breaking if over-used, but still is better than slide jumping.

Edited June 14, 2013 by Kelkha

[Ced23Ric]

Yes, I am aware that it circumvents the stamina mechanic. I don't get what point you're trying to make here, since I don't believe I said it didn't do just that.

 

My apologies. The repetition of the topic kind of ... made me a little more abrasive than necessary. Sorry about it. Let me rephrase the statement. If a movement chain allows you to circumvent the depletion of a limited resource, it does have an inargueable effect, which is bypassing an intended limiter of movement speed. You can probably tell how this bypass is unintentional.

 

Nevertheless, I do agree (and did agree before elsewhere; as I said, long topic...) that there should be a way for skill to augment motion.

[aerokiss]

I found a new way to abuse broken game mechanics but it's a lot harder than the old way =\ 

just goes to show how much work is still needed to improve the game controls/movement.

Edited June 14, 2013 by aerokiss

[RyojinOrion]

My apologies. The repetition of the topic kind of ... made me a little more abrasive than necessary. Sorry about it. Let me rephrase the statement. If a movement chain allows you to circumvent the depletion of a limited resource, it does have an inargueable effect, which is bypassing an intended limiter of movement speed. You can probably tell how this bypass is unintentional.

 

Nevertheless, I do agree (and did agree before elsewhere; as I said, long topic...) that there should be a way for skill to augment motion.

 

It's fine, it happens. I've been guilty of it myself. I just wasn't sure if there was something you were getting at that just wasn't clicking in my mind because I just woke up, or if it was an honest mistake.

[Clorf]

It's still in the game, you just might have to adjust your controls to be able to sprint and crouch in tandem. For me it's sprint on the left mouse button and toggle crouch on the thumb mouse button. It feels really intuitive having these two fingers working together to maximize your mobility potential. But it might be hard to adjust to if you've been sprinting with the keyboard for a long time.

 

I'd be willing to show you in game that the air control possibilities are still intact.

I am well aware that this maneuver is still in the game, and you'd know that if you had read my two earlier posts in this thread explaining what's going on.  I would prefer not to change my controls, which have been working fine for every third/first person game I've ever played including this one up until now when there's no good reason I should have to.

 

And as for all of you who couldn't even be bothered to read enough of this thread to understand that it's not about the slide cooldown...  I don't even know what to say to you other than please read a thread before you reply to it, especially if it's only 1 or 2 pages long.

Edited June 14, 2013 by Clorf

[Trayzard]

i hope they change it back... it is really awkward to get used to the new mechanic.
So my sprint button is now a toogle bottom, and how do i roll now? It is confusing that i have to turn sprint on and off all the time.

They lowered the jump range? Did they? I am fine with that if they change the key mechanics back.

Edited June 15, 2013 by Trayzard

[silentdrumr]

Set toggle sprint to C, leave sprint/roll to shift.

 

Before you chain something, press C and tada! You no longer have to press shift ever during a chain.

 

You can still chain everything, do all the same movements, and no it's not harder... It's actually easier because you don't have to hold shift as much which leaves you room to do other combos easier.

[Feldgrep]

The devs have openly said that they don't like rushing through content that they spent hours making. It makes sense to me and its fair to the work they put in.

 

So your run takes 4 minutes longer because you have to actually, oh I don't know, fight people. So what? It's DE's game, they have every right to make us play the game the way they want us to.

 

If you're in the camp that's upset because it makes your resource farming slower, that's a problem with drops, which they are also in the process of fixing.

 

I support this move.

[Phoenix86]

I just miss being able to jump and land my jump in a slide then spin attack instead of ground pound. It was nice to have options...

 

^ this... :(

[Clorf]

Set toggle sprint to C, leave sprint/roll to shift.

 

Before you chain something, press C and tada! You no longer have to press shift ever during a chain.

 

You can still chain everything, do all the same movements, and no it's not harder... It's actually easier because you don't have to hold shift as much which leaves you room to do other combos easier.

Do you not see how the game would be improved by not requiring you to bind two keys to the same action?  It's great that you found a workaround that doesn't feel awkward to you, but what I'm saying is that you shouldn't have to find a workaround at all.  

 

Nothing of value is gained by over-complicating the controls like this.

Edited June 14, 2013 by Clorf

[unmog]

Do you not see how the game would be improved by not requiring you to bind two keys to the same action?  It's great that you found a workaround that doesn't feel awkward to you, but what I'm saying is that you shouldn't have to find a workaround at all.  

 

Nothing of value is gained by over-complicating the controls like this.

+1

[Firebat86]

The devs have openly said that they don't like rushing through content that they spent hours making. It makes sense to me and its fair to the work they put in.

 

So your run takes 4 minutes longer because you have to actually, oh I don't know, fight people. So what? It's DE's game, they have every right to make us play the game the way they want us to.

 

If you're in the camp that's upset because it makes your resource farming slower, that's a problem with drops, which they are also in the process of fixing.

 

I support this move.

One it felt BA to run around and move like that and secondly, what about all the missions where I run back and forth and back and forth across the map devoid of enemies picking up data?  Now it just feels sluggish.  There's shouldn't be a CD.  I feel like this was a lazy fix to stop an exploit.  If I have the stamina to perform and action, then some hidden global CD shouldn't restrict me to do so.  This "fix" circumvents the stamina or "limiting factor" from the entire equation. 

[silentdrumr]

Do you not see how the game would be improved by not requiring you to bind two keys to the same action?  It's great that you found a workaround that doesn't feel awkward to you, but what I'm saying is that you shouldn't have to find a workaround at all.  

 

Nothing of value is gained by over-complicating the controls like this.

Over-complicating? I just said it made it easier.. and a lot of people find it that way too. This game is subject to change their motions due to bug fixes such as the stamina one. When they added toggled sprint, it pretty much made it just the way it was before the fix except you have to press one button. One button. And only once, I might add, instead of holding shift.

 

If I want to hold shift for a short time, I can. If I want to roll, I can. Now with toggled sprint I can infinitely chain moves together as much as I want with much ease. People just fail to adapt. I can understand if they REMOVED a certain movement from the game, but they didn't. Everything is still there.

[Clorf]

Over-complicating? I just said it made it easier.. and a lot of people find it that way too. This game is subject to change their motions due to bug fixes such as the stamina one. When they added toggled sprint, it pretty much made it just the way it was before the fix except you have to press one button. One button. And only once, I might add, instead of holding shift.

 

If I want to hold shift for a short time, I can. If I want to roll, I can. Now with toggled sprint I can infinitely chain moves together as much as I want with much ease. People just fail to adapt. I can understand if they REMOVED a certain movement from the game, but they didn't. Everything is still there.

While we're at it, let's go ahead and add an extra button that you have to press to toggle "air mode" every time you want to jump.  Never mind that it adds nothing to the game beyond busywork and awkwardness, it's only one button, you just need to adapt.

 

Since you seem to be having trouble understanding this, allow me to explain the steps required to perform the maneuver.

 

Before:

1.  While in a forward roll, press the crouch key

With your method:

1.  Press the toggle sprint key2.  While in a forward roll, press the crouch key3.  After the slide is finished, press the toggle sprint key again to disable it

.

 

Which of these methods looks easier to you?  One of them is a simple, elegant solution, and one of them is an awkward kludge.   Can you figure out which is which?

Edited June 14, 2013 by Clorf

[DAwGi]

I noticed issues trying to grab certain ledges while jumping.  Post patch there was this one closet area in the Corpus ship maps where I had to jump up to a missing grate in the ceiling to climb up and no matter what I did my warframe would not grab the edge and pull me up.

[Ryjeon]

While we're at it, let's go ahead and add an extra button that you have to press to toggle "air mode" every time you want to jump.  Never mind that it adds nothing to the game beyond busywork and awkwardness, it's only one button, you just need to adapt.

 

Since you seem to be having trouble understanding this, allow me to explain the steps required to perform the maneuver.

 

Before:

1.  While in a forward roll, press the crouch key

With your method:

1.  Press the toggle sprint key2.  While in a forward roll, press the crouch key3.  After the slide is finished, press the toggle sprint key again to disable it

.

 

Which of these methods looks easier to you?  One of them is a simple, elegant solution, and one of them is an awkward kludge.   Can you figure out which is which?

 You don't have to use toggle sprint. Just add press sprint key to your preferred step one. "

1.  While in a forward roll, press the sprint and crouch keys

Edited June 14, 2013 by Ryjeon

[Clorf]

 

 You don't have to use toggle sprint. Just add press sprint key to your preferred step one. "

1.  While in a forward roll, press the sprint and crouch keys

Why should I have to press an extra button?  What purpose does that serve?  What does that add to the gameplay?  Please answer these questions before attempting to tell me what I already know for the 20th time.

 

In addition, your method doesn't work as you've outlined it.  You need to have been holding the sprint key since before you initiated the front flip in order to get the air slide to work consistently without toggle sprint.

[silentdrumr]

While we're at it, let's go ahead and add an extra button that you have to press to toggle "air mode" every time you want to jump.  Never mind that it adds nothing to the game beyond busywork and awkwardness, it's only one button, you just need to adapt.

 

Since you seem to be having trouble understanding this, allow me to explain the steps required to perform the maneuver.

 

Before:

1.  While in a forward roll, press the crouch key

With your method:

1.  Press the toggle sprint key2.  While in a forward roll, press the crouch key3.  After the slide is finished, press the toggle sprint key again to disable it

.

 

Which of these methods looks easier to you?  One of them is a simple, elegant solution, and one of them is an awkward kludge.   Can you figure out which is which?

You really only need to right click(zoom in) to disable toggle sprint.. So yeah.. to do what you said,

 

You must sprint, slide, then jump, and then crouch to kick in air. So..

Shift,Ctrl,Spacebar,Ctrl

 

My method:

Press toggle sprint, crouch, then jump, then press crouch again to kick.

C, Ctrl, Spacebar, Ctrl

 

So please tell me what the difference is? My movement is in no way hindered and this is by far not an "awkward kludge" Having to hold sprint is.

 

But w/e keep talking about how I'm wrong.

[Clorf]

You really only need to right click(zoom in) to disable toggle sprint.. So yeah.. to do what you said,

 

You must sprint, slide, then jump, and then crouch to kick in air. So..

Shift,Ctrl,Spacebar,Ctrl

 

My method:

Press toggle sprint, crouch, then jump, then press crouch again to kick.

C, Ctrl, Spacebar, Ctrl

 

So please tell me what the difference is? My movement is in no way hindered and this is by far not an "awkward kludge" Having to hold sprint is.

 

But w/e keep talking about how I'm wrong.

I'm not sure you even understand what you're arguing at this point.  In what way would removing the requirement that you be sprinting to initiate the air slide cause you to have to hold the sprint key more than you already do?  It would literally be the opposite of that.

[silentdrumr]

I'm not sure you even understand what you're arguing at this point.  In what way would removing the requirement that you be sprinting to initiate the air slide cause you to have to hold the sprint key more than you already do?  It would literally be the opposite of that.

That's what you wanted? Oh well then. More power to ya. In that case, I would only suggest some kind of stamina balance.

 

Otherwise, nothing wrong with that idea.

[fatpig84]

Toggling to sprint let's me perform wave dashing.

But i got no shame in that, no one is going to wait for a Rhino ever.

Edited June 15, 2013 by fatpig84

[Clorf]

So it was just a breakdown in communication, then.  Sorry for being a little testy, I'm just annoyed by all the people assuming this thread is about the slide cooldown and posting in it without even bothering to read the OP, let alone my posts on the first page.

 

Anyway, I noticed that https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/64866-sprint-fix/'>this thread is about the exact same issue, so I figured I might as well connect the two.

[silentdrumr]

So it was just a breakdown in communication, then.  Sorry for being a little testy, I'm just annoyed by all the people assuming this thread is about the slide cooldown and posting in it without even bothering to read the OP, let alone my posts on the first page.

 

Anyway, I noticed that this thread is about the exact same issue, so I figured I might as well connect the two.

I don't blame ya for it.

[Saenol]

People and their insta-gib macros man...how pushing 1 key to have the character do everything for you is supposed to be fun is beyond me.

 

I never did like console fighting games or inane button/timing combos to initiate maneuvers and they are certainly not a prerequisite for fun.

 

If the character can front flip, the character should be able to front flip on command. Timing the jump and aiming the landing, not to mention deciding when and why to do these things at all, still take skill.

 

Really, I find this complaint on the same level as complaining that you can reload a Saiga-12 in some games just by pressing R, rather than pressing one button to hit the catch, another to detach the magazine, then another to hold the bolt back, and finally one more to wiggle the new one into place...all sequenced and timed efficiently, while under fire.

Edited June 27, 2013 by Saenol

[dubninja]

So, you are obviously aware how that chain circumvented a mechanism that had a limiting nature. Good.

So the idea is to remove it altogether and not fix it by adding in some stamina drain to the slide-flip? Anyone notice that they jump kick alot less? I find myself moving almost indefinatly in sprint by tapping slide from time to time and it increases my speed and I have more control over it. How is that a better fix to the issue? Why ignore the simple fix for this and just take it away? It seems crazy to limit players because you don't want to add a few lines of code. And I find it weird I am typing this again but: I THOUGHT THIS WAS A FUTURISTIC NINJA GAME.