I do not like the direction this game is taking.

[Flirk2]

This post will be long. You have been warned.

 

First of all I'll state clearly that this is not another QQ thread, nor am I under any delusion that my thoughts on this subject have weight or value.

 

Second, I have not spent any amount of money on the game and had a lot of fun playing it. Always felt bad trading with other people for plat to get those weapon and warframe slots. Would gladly pay for those to support the developers, but living and working in what amounts to a third world country gives me no such option.

I have absolutely no problem with the game's business model.

So why did I suddenly decide to post on the forums?

Because on the 25 of February 2016, I logged in, failed the 24.02.2016-th first part of a sortie and could not play today anymore.

 

22 June 2015 was the date I created my account in Warframe.

Since then I logged in nearly every day, as far as I can remember, and did not go to forums until recently or played any other game for any meaningful amount of time.

 

I joined because I saw a stream where Gopher played the game for the first time and thought I could have fun with this game.

Being in no hurry to get prime gear and not even knowing what it was precisely, I went through the star chart at a pace that I felt comfortable. Doing the low level missions over and over and over again just because I was sure I'd die horribly if I rush too fast. And I enjoy feeling powerful while I hate to loose.

Then I came to a point where there were too much missions I could not solo. Defense, interception. Spying gave me a headache and rescue missions I did not like. Survival was a pain also. As you can see, there was 1 game mode I enjoyed and that was extermination. And crossfire. Because that's extermination with a mixed opposition.

So I asked to join Gopher's minions clan and they were kind enough to let me in.

Getting people to play with gives you a lot in this game. So the pace I progressed sped up quite a bit.

And here I am half way between mr19 and mr20 (my profile tells me that I played this game for 1032 hours), writing a post for the forum instead of playing the game. Because as I said earlier, I logged in, went for a sortie corpus extermination on Ivara with Opticor, Lex Prime and an Orthos Prime, and by about the 50 enemy killed and some “bursa incoming” messages from Lotus noticed the total amount of enemies I needed to slaughter was not about 260 as at the start but about 280. By the time I killed 110 more or less, it was 310 total. And it kept rising. When I saw 319 I decided to abandon the mission. Making my missions abandoned score 53 against the 5102 completed and 62 failed.

 

So I sit in my orbiter, feeling miserable, and ask myself the same question that corpus crewmen ask when you kill them: “Why?”. What's the point of an endless extermination?

And before anyone patient enough to get to this place in the post says: “But you should have turned the alarms off, they would stop spawning.” I did. Did not help.

First of all they started spawning while all the consoles to hack were unresponsive as if the alarms were never on.

Second: Ordis refused to do the hacking citing “no security protocols to shut down”,

Third, when the alarms were finally set off, it went into a lock-down, I hacked the console twice. But the enemy counter kept increasing.

I really hate to loose. And abandon missions. But I know my limits: killing the physically enhanced bursa faster then they spawn is totally out of them.

 

When the focus system was introduced and a couple of weeks passed I went to the forums to see if I was the only one who thinks the gains were too low and the “shared affinity gives no focus” will get fixed soon. When the focus gains were nerfed to the ground and the convergence was introduced I started to make a point of not taking any lensed items with me on missions if I could possibly help it to not have the horrible arcady pickup spawning for me. And went to the forums every day to see what the community thinks of it and if there is hope for a change.

Not getting all the event mods hurts. But I did not go out of my way to get them.

When I saw mentions of bursa in normal corpus missions I was not liking it at all, really feeling for those who don't have the gear to deal with them yet, but was thinking that there will be some sort of a solution.

But facing the infinite spawn of bursas in the sortie extermination myself killed my mood for playing the game almost completely.

 

So returning to the topic, I don't like where this game is going. The things become more and more difficult to acquire. Getting event-exclusive stuff depends more and more on luck. When was the last catalyst alert that you could do within 2 weeks of playing solo? I don't remember. If bursa spawned on Jupiter when I went through it for the first time I would most likely quit the game.

And the sortie reward changes. They look so good on paper. But I have dera vandal and some spare parts left, karak wraith and some spare parts. From the fourth season I have strun wraith blueprint, a full Nezha set (never mind I already have it built and leveled, and some spare parts for it) and 3 of the 4 lenses possible. And no parts for the strun. And where would I get those if everyone who got the parts got only one of each? And I did not do a lot less sorties then before.

I don't want to put lenses on anything now because convergence happened. Getting an epic sound and flashy visual effects with a message of “0 focus points earned” because I was playing solo and did not kill with the lensed weapon is not my idea of fun. So lenses are rather useless for me at the moment.

But I guess as we have bursa spawn on the 5-th excavator on Triton, and since the changes you can't do 2 excavators at once if you solo anymore, sorties became THE place to get fusion cores.

So new players get more and more walls to climb and obstacles to overcome.

And when I looked at the void section of the star chart I thought about corrupted arctic eximus nullifiers, extrapolated those to corrupted arctic eximus bursa and quit the game in abject horror.

 

Sorry for the long post but I needed to get some of it out of my system.

[RagingGrizzly]

I only have one suggestion to you: Take a break for so and so days/weeks/months and come back and you'll be able to appreciate the game more. Grind is something that this game can't run without. 

The devs did say at one point that they'll reduce the grind. I got my Saryn Prime in 3 hours (And only 2 attempts on t3 survival Rotation C), so I dunno if I was lucky.

[AM-Bunny]

I see what you're saying, and it definitely does feel like the amount of grind they expect is rising.

They always produce content as fast as they can, so the only real variable for them is: how quickly can we burn through that content? It's a balancing act between having a high amount of grind and having bored players with nothing to do. There's no right answer, so it's hard to be too critical of the devs for trying a new direction. All we can do is voice our opinions of that direction as you have done here.

That being said, luckily pretty much everything in Warframe is optional. You said you already have Nezha, so... if you don't enjoy Sorties, don't play them. I like Sorties, but I can't stand the Sortie endless missions (which there seems to be one at least every time) so I mostly skip them. Not really missing out on much. Take a break, like Pure said above me, and watch from the sidelines until something comes along and piques your interest.

[Viedra_Lavinova]

Everything works out in the end. Like @PUR3K1LL3R  said, take a break for a bit. All the problems you now experience will most likely be hammered down for newer content. The grind is real, but only if you can find time to fool around with all the goodies you have to have fun. (I literally did a lot of high level spy missions last night for fun since I never do them, I feel addicted to the game again because the fun I had. Sometimes just goofing off can be a good thing.)

 

 

[RagingGrizzly]

5 minutes ago, Viedra_Lavinova said:

Everything works out in the end. Like @PUR3K1LL3R  said, take a break for a bit. All the problems you now experience will most likely be hammered down for newer content. The grind is real, but only if you can find time to fool around with all the goodies you have to have fun. (I literally did a lot of high level spy missions last night for fun since I never do them, I feel addicted to the game again because the fun I had. Sometimes just goofing off can be a good thing.)

 

 

Another alternative is play with friends while grinding, it basically nullifies the grind. (In my experience)

[Flirk2]

15 minutes ago, PUR3K1LL3R said:

Grind is something that this game can't run without.

 

9 minutes ago, AM-Bunny said:

I see what you're saying, and it definitely does feel like the amount of grind they expect is rising

 

6 minutes ago, Viedra_Lavinova said:

The grind is real

 

My post is long and not well structured. But I don't have a problem with grind. I'm not in a hurry for sarin prime or anything else. But I don't want to get stuck in an endless extermination where enemies spawn constantly.

But I feel sorry for players who joined recently and can't get through Jupiter because Bursas.

And I'm rather annoyed that the mods that were given as a pack in the event that they were first introduced were locked behind the most annoying boss fight I saw and an RNG wall to boot. But even that I could shrug off: "4 times - only toxic mods that I have from corrupted Vor? I did not want those mods anyway..." :-)

As I saw it put in one of the threads:

This is not a grind. Grind is a process of slowly getting to your goal. This is a gamble.

But even gamble I don't have much problem with.

Extermination spawning more and more enemies and not getting anything that I wanted from the 4-th season of sorties was what did it to me.

 

And the thought of seeing the arctic eximus corrupted nullifire bursa in the void. Maybe with sentient adaptive armor to spice things up.

[RagingGrizzly]

Just now, Flirk2 said:

 

 

My post is long and not well structured. But I don't have a problem with grind. I'm not in a hurry for sarin prime or anything else. But I don't want to get stuck in an endless extermination where enemies spawn constantly.

But I feel sorry for players who joined recently and can't get through Jupiter because Bursas.

And I'm rather annoyed that the mods that were given as a pack in the event that they were first introduced were locked behind the most annoying boss fight I saw and an RNG wall to boot. But even that I could shrug off: "4 times - only toxic mods that I have from corrupted Vor? I did not want those mods anyway..." :-)

As I saw it put in one of the threads:

This is not a grind. Grind is a process of slowly getting to your goal. This is a gamble.

But even gamble I don't have much problem with.

Extermination spawning more and more enemies and not getting anything that I wanted from the 4-th season of sorties was what did it to me.

 

And the thought of seeing the arctic eximus corrupted nullifire bursa in the void. Maybe with sentient adaptive armor to spice things up.

I haven't done the exterms on corpus maps on the sorties, but that sounds like a bug to me.

Do bursas spawn more than once in a jupiter mission? Like a spy? If they spawn a lot, than they should take some skills from the Manics...

I do agree with you on that tactical alert, why would we get those when Vor is overflowing with them? It sounds stupid. Baro may sell them later at some point. He did sell Fanged, it could happen again.

[AM-Bunny]

Just now, Flirk2 said:

But I feel sorry for players who joined recently and can't get through Jupiter because Bursas.

As far as I know, Bursas aren't found in regular Jupiter missions, they were only for that Sortie. So new players wouldn't experience the difficulty you describe. Considering that Sorties were intended for veteran players, I find this acceptable.

[Viedra_Lavinova]

Bursas will get balanced out soon enough. Event mods aren't necessary to play the game. The grind and gamble are exactly the same thing. The law of large numbers says, If you try long enough you will eventually succeed.

[Flirk2]

11 minutes ago, PUR3K1LL3R said:

Do bursas spawn more than once in a jupiter mission? Like a spy? If they spawn a lot, than they should take some skills from the Manics...

Did not test extermination or spy on Jupiter. But on Io's defense they spawn at wave 10. Half the time. Wave 15 - surely. I leveled some stuff there. Before the bursa people stayed till 20 waves. Even mr3 and 4. Now you rarely see anyone stay more then 10.

10 minutes ago, AM-Bunny said:

As far as I know, Bursas aren't found in regular Jupiter missions, they were only for that Sortie. So new players wouldn't experience the difficulty you describe. Considering that Sorties were intended for veteran players, I find this acceptable.

Try it. You'll love the bursa on Io. Not that I had much problems. But I did went there with 2 max ranked, catalyst installed, forma applied weapons out of 3. And I was leveling Chroma at the time.

8 minutes ago, Viedra_Lavinova said:

Bursas will get balanced out soon enough. Event mods aren't necessary to play the game. The grind and gamble are exactly the same thing. The law of large numbers says, If you try long enough you will eventually succeed.

No they are not. When you grind you know the result and know the exact amount of time you'll need to get to it. Gamble is a game of chance where you have a non-zero chance of not getting anything at all no matter how long will you roll the dice.

Grind is a viable technological process. Gamble? As they say: If you want to get money on a casino, buy a casino. :-)

Edited February 25, 2016 by Flirk2
typos

[RagingGrizzly]

2 minutes ago, Flirk2 said:

Try it. You'll love the bursa on Io. Not that I had much problems. But I did went there with 2 max ranked, catalyst installed, forma applied weapons out of 3. And I was leveling Chroma at the time.

I don't wanna toot my own horn, but all I do is 1-shot em and hack em.

ez gg no re.

[EvilChaosKnight]

Bursas spawn on Venus, Kiliken on wave 15.

Just saying.

[AM-Bunny]

Just now, Flirk2 said:

Did not test extermination or spy on Jupiter. But on Io's defense they spawn at wave 10. Half the time. Wave 15 - surely. I leveled some stuff there. Before the bursa people stayed till 20 waves. Even mr3 and 4. Now you rarely see anyone stay more then 10.

Try it. You'll love the bursa on Io. Not that I had much problems. But I did went there with 2 max ranked, catalyst installed, forma applied weapons out of 3. And I was leveling Croma at the time.

Again though, if your concern is for new players who are simply trying to traverse the starchart, they can complete Io and leave at Wave 5. You'd never see the Bursas.

It's the nature of Defense missions to increase in difficulty until it overwhelms the players, so this point would be reached inevitably by anyone. Perhaps that point comes sooner on Io than on other Defense missions, but you simply have to learn to leave before it comes. 

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

And when I looked at the void section of the star chart I thought about corrupted arctic eximus nullifiers, extrapolated those to corrupted arctic eximus bursa and quit the game in abject horror.

... I didn't want to go through and erase everything, and havnt really worked with forums 2.0 enough to know how to select specific text, but this is a part that got me, it has a little humor. I don't know if Warframe will continue the trends of ever increasing grind and struggle that seem to have become the norm, but have hope, the devs will pull  together, one day. 

[Flirk2]

1 minute ago, PUR3K1LL3R said:

I don't wanna toot my own horn, but all I do is 1-shot em and hack em.

ez gg no re.

 

That's nice to know. It really helps people with 3 weeks of play to know that you can do that with maxed mods on multiforma weapons. I always learn so much from forum dissection.... :-)

1 minute ago, EvilChaosKnight said:

Bursas spawn on Venus, Kiliken on wave 15.

Just saying.

Even better then Jupiter.

1 minute ago, AM-Bunny said:

Again though, if your concern is for new players who are simply trying to traverse the starchart, they can complete Io and leave at Wave 5. You'd never see the Bursas.

It's the nature of Defense missions to increase in difficulty until it overwhelms the players, so this point would be reached inevitably by anyone. Perhaps that point comes sooner on Io than on other Defense missions, but you simply have to learn to leave before it comes. 

Yes they can. But all the nice mods are given on wave 20. You know, like Hell's chamber... And why would they increase in difficulty from one month to the other? Is that a thing now? :-)

[RagingGrizzly]

Just now, Flirk2 said:

 

That's nice to know. It really helps people with 3 weeks of play to know that you can do that with maxed mods on multiforma weapons. I always learn so much from forum dissection.... :-)

Sarcasm isn't going to get you far.

Step 1: Get Lex Prime (Farm it or buy it for 15p or so, idc)

Step 2: Potato it.

Step 3: Profit.

[(XBOX)C0gnitive 0n3]

27 minutes ago, Flirk2 said:

And the thought of seeing the arctic eximus corrupted nullifire bursa in the void. Maybe with sentient adaptive armor to spice things up.

As a player who spent the majority of my playing time in Void Survivals when I first began playing, and up to today: I, absolutely, dread the day this happens. 

I thought rapid-fire-Bombards were bad....

[AM-Bunny]

2 minutes ago, Flirk2 said:

Yes they can. But all the nice mods are given on wave 20. You know, like Hell's chamber... And why would they increase in difficulty from one month to the other? Is that a thing now? :-)

Sometimes you can't get all the nice mods right away when you're a little nooblet. Gives you incentive to return to the node later when you can handle it.

Yeah, difficulty increases sometimes when a new enemy is added to the mix. It happens, although I wouldn't say monthly.

[EvilChaosKnight]

8 minutes ago, AM-Bunny said:

Sometimes you can't get all the nice mods right away when you're a little nooblet. Gives you incentive to return to the node later when you can handle it.

Yeah, difficulty increases sometimes when a new enemy is added to the mix. It happens, although I wouldn't say monthly.

People are seriously advocating Bursas on Venus.

I don't even. That's official I've seen everything.

Also lol at farming Lex Pr. Are you for real saying that Void (T3 or 4 are required for BP and Barrel btw) is supposed to be easier than Venus?

Edited February 25, 2016 by EvilChaosKnight

[Flirk2]

7 minutes ago, PUR3K1LL3R said:

Sarcasm isn't going to get you far.

Step 1: Get Lex Prime (Farm it or buy it for 15p or so, idc)

Step 2: Potato it.

Step 3: Profit.

Yes. And get 2 primed crit mods, r8 at least,  maxed hornet strike, hollow point and sharpened bullets while you are at it. Do it while you are mr4. :-)

5 minutes ago, (XB1)C0gnitive 0n3 said:

As a player who spent the majority of my playing time in Void Survivals when I first began playing, and up to today: I, absolutely, dread the day this happens. 

I thought rapid-fire-Bombards were bad....

And do you know why I did not go for fomorian sabotage? I was sure that those bursas from the sortie will be there. Somehow able to fly in space and working with the grineer. :-)

 

5 minutes ago, AM-Bunny said:

Sometimes you can't get all the nice mods right away when you're a little nooblet. Gives you incentive to return to the node later when you can handle it.

Yeah, difficulty increases sometimes when a new enemy is added to the mix. It happens, although I wouldn't say monthly.

You do not see the difference between the difficulty of scrambus and the difficulty of bursa? Alright.

Guess there is no placing oneself in another one's shoes for some people...

[RagingGrizzly]

Just now, Flirk2 said:

Yes. And get 2 primed crit mods, r8 at least,  maxed hornet strike, hollow point and sharpened bullets while you are at it. Do it while you are mr4. :-)

Since when do you need those primed mods and other event exclusive mods to make the Lex Prime good?

Base damage, multishot, and the elemental mods are all you really need. The unprimed crit mods are also good.

[EvilChaosKnight]

5 minutes ago, Flirk2 said:

Guess there is no placing oneself in another one's shoes for some people...

Yes! At least someone else gets this.

3 minutes ago, PUR3K1LL3R said:

Since when do you need those primed mods and other event exclusive mods to make the Lex Prime good?

Base damage, multishot, and the elemental mods are all you really need. The unprimed crit mods are also good.

Yea too bad you need to either T3D/B or T4D/A to get a BP and T3Cap and T3Surv/T4Surv both B for Barrel.And no you can't trade with your starting plat, so pay up, newbies!

Edited February 25, 2016 by EvilChaosKnight

[RagingGrizzly]

4 minutes ago, EvilChaosKnight said:

Yea too bad you need to either T3D/B or T4D/A to get a BP and T3Cap and T3Surv/T4Surv both B for Barrel.And no you can't trade with your starting plat, so pay up, newbies!

Yeah, there's that. Unless he has friends that could help him. lol

I guess the Marelok is a good alternative. :P

Edited February 25, 2016 by PUR3K1LL3R

[felixsylvaris]

One thing good about Focus: You can ignore it. Put some lenses in your favorite frame, and just dont care if focus drops or not. Sometimes spend points.

The thing with endless Extermination is insane. I hope it is bug, and someone reported it. And Bursas in Sorties... at this point we stopped fighting and just tried to complete the quest without fight.

For me the most problematic is that too many things are Void rewards. And i cant longer watch Void. I am fed up with a whole tileset and corrupted.

I think that most problematic for new players is potato access. They could be lucky with events ( i think in past month there was 2 with either reactor or catalyst).

 

[Flirk2]

15 minutes ago, PUR3K1LL3R said:

Since when do you need those primed mods and other event exclusive mods to make the Lex Prime good?

Base damage, multishot, and the elemental mods are all you really need. The unprimed crit mods are also good.

You are aware of the fact you are suggesting someone who goes through the Jupiter for the first time to get a 1) primed secondary that takes 10 orokin cells to even make, 2) maxed hornet strike (256 r5 fusion cores for someone who doesn't have access to Triton and even if he did have the access does not have the gear to survive there)?

What next, you suggest they'll have more then enough orokin cells from Draco? :-)

10 minutes ago, PUR3K1LL3R said:

Yeah, there's that.

I guess the Marelok is a good alternative. :P

A mr5 weapon that needs a clan, 2 detonite injectors and a forma to make.

And get the Vaykor version while you are at it. Because surely that's possible. Sweet Lotus.

6 minutes ago, felixsylvaris said:

One thing good about Focus: You can ignore it. Put some lenses in your favorite frame,

And you suddenly can't ignore it. Because there is a bright gold convergence way-point on your screen. Hence the no-lens approach I took.

Edited February 25, 2016 by Flirk2
typos