Sniper Crit chance

[TheLexiConArtist]

6 minutes ago, KinetosImpetus said:

2x(2x2), (2x2)x2, what's the difference. it's all still 2x2=4, 4x2=8

Look at the screenshot. It's not 2*(2*2); it's <damage>*2*(2*2). The multiplier doubles up again.

A (theoretical) bodyshot with a naked Tonkor would be 325 damage.

A (theoretical) bodyshot crit with a naked Tonkor would be 325 * 2.5 = 812.5 damage.

A headshot with a naked Tonkor as you can see is 325 * 2 = 650 damage.

A headshot crit with the naked Tonkor is 325  * 2 * (2 * 2.5) = 325 * 10 = 3250 damage, not 325 * 2 * 2.5 = 325 * 5 = 1625 damage.

 

Now, in terms of crit damage in general;

10 base damage, 100% chance of crit, 2x multiplier - Serration adds 165% base damage, which doubles due to crits, 330% damage. 10*1.65*2 = 33 damage/shot.

2 base damage, 100% crit chance, 10x multiplier - Serration adds 165% base damage, which multiplies by 10 due to crits, 1650% damage. 2*1.65*10 = 33 damage/shot.

Yes, that's the same. However, when you go the other way and remove crits, and start amplifying that crit multiplier (Vital Sense) compared to adding damage mods to a noncritting weapon:

10 base, 100% crit, 4.4x multiplier - Serration results in 10*1.65*4.4 = 72.6/shot

20, 0 crit - Serration results in 20*1.65 = 33/shot. You now need one mod to give +120% damage to match the crit enhancement property of Vital Sense. Heavy Caliber is your only option of such magnitude. Going further than that, you lose all options of matching that Crit power.

 

Any crit multiplier allows mods to add more damage than a weapon that lacks the potential to crit reliably.

[Kinetos]

11 minutes ago, EDYinnit said:

Look at the screenshot. It's not 2*(2*2); it's <damage>*2*(2*2). The multiplier doubles up again.

A (theoretical) bodyshot with a naked Tonkor would be 325 damage.

A (theoretical) bodyshot crit with a naked Tonkor would be 325 * 2.5 = 812.5 damage.

A headshot with a naked Tonkor as you can see is 325 * 2 = 650 damage.

A headshot crit with the naked Tonkor is 325  * 2 * (2 * 2.5) = 325 * 10 = 3250 damage, not 325 * 2 * 2.5 = 325 * 5 = 1625 damage.

 

Now, in terms of crit damage in general;

10 base damage, 100% chance of crit, 2x multiplier - Serration adds 165% base damage, which doubles due to crits, 330% damage. 10*1.65*2 = 33 damage/shot.

2 base damage, 100% crit chance, 10x multiplier - Serration adds 165% base damage, which multiplies by 10 due to crits, 1650% damage. 2*1.65*10 = 33 damage/shot.

Yes, that's the same. However, when you go the other way and remove crits, and start amplifying that crit multiplier (Vital Sense) compared to adding damage mods to a noncritting weapon:

10 base, 100% crit, 4.4x multiplier - Serration results in 10*1.65*4.4 = 72.6/shot

20, 0 crit - Serration results in 20*1.65 = 33/shot. You now need one mod to give +120% damage to match the crit enhancement property of Vital Sense. Heavy Caliber is your only option of such magnitude. Going further than that, you lose all options of matching that Crit power.

 

Any crit multiplier allows mods to add more damage than a weapon that lacks the potential to crit reliably.

325  * (2 * 2 * 2.5) = 3250

(325  * 2 * 2) * 2.5= 3250

(325  * 2 * 2 * 2.5) = 3250

325  * 2 * (2 * 2.5) = 3250

325  * (2 * 2 * 2.5) = 3250

325  * (2 * (2 * 2.5)) = 3250

(325  * 2) * (2 * 2.5)  = 3250

(325  * 2 * (2 * 2.5)) = 3250

325  * (2 * (2 * (2.5))) = 3250

 

It doesn't matter what order anything is multiplied, it's all multiplication.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Regardless, The idea is to fix inconsistent crits, not crit damage or total damage.

Edited March 3, 2016 by KinetosImpetus

[TheLexiConArtist]

In the end, at an equal statistical level besides damage and critting, it's just another mod exclusive to crit weapons that gives proportionally higher damage than anything you can use as an alternative in noncritting weapons. 90% element versus 120% crit multiplier.

Of course, it's never an equal statistical level either, nor is it very often the non-crit-built weapon has zero crit chance, and the maths gets even worse for shenanigans as a result...

Just now, KinetosImpetus said:

Regardless, The idea is to fix inconsistent crits, not crit damage or total damage.

Don't worry, I'm dropping it from here on out (whether there's another reply from you or not) so you can get the topic back on those intended rails.

[Kinetos]

1 minute ago, EDYinnit said:

In the end, at an equal statistical level besides damage and critting, it's just another mod exclusive to crit weapons that gives proportionally higher damage than anything you can use as an alternative in noncritting weapons. 90% element versus 120% crit multiplier.

Of course, it's never an equal statistical level either, nor is it very often the non-crit-built weapon has zero crit chance, and the maths gets even worse for shenanigans as a result...

Don't worry, I'm dropping it from here on out (whether there's another reply from you or not) so you can get the topic back on those intended rails.

I wasn't disputing any of that, I'm just desperately trying to keep on rails, so thank your for that.

[Silvus-Sol]

I agree with the OP, the key factor with snipers (that DE seems to not understand) is reliability. 75% crit chance doesn't mean the same thing it does on a Soma, what it means on a sniper is that you have a 25% chance of the gun failing you. Crit chance on snipers needs to be all or nothing. The weapon needs to be designed so that it can hit at least 100% on a full crit build, or it needs to forsake crit alltogether and be a pure damage weapon instead. The current middleground is what makes them unreliable and inferior to bows.

A simple and easy fix would be to introduce a band-aid mod. A second Point Strike that is exclusive to snipers. It would allow players to have a dedicated crit build that is reliable without being OP as it would take multiple mods to achieve. Until this is done snipers will continue to be underused due to their inconsistency.