@de: Normal Attacks & Pressure Point State In The Game [Details Inside]

[darrenalilim]

The point is not between meele vs ranged fight Darrenalilim, it is between normal vs charged attacks, stay on topic please

There is no point to use melee AT ALL. So what, we're going to just focus on comparing something obsolete to something more obsolete? What's the point of that? I don't see how buffing melee as a whole is a problem for normal vs charge when they're both pretty much useless

[Godplank]

Agreed, resorting to charge spam isn't fun but it's effective; spamming melee attacks is neither fun or effective.

[Phoenix86]

There is no point to use melee AT ALL. So what, we're going to just focus on comparing something obsolete to something more obsolete? What's the point of that? I don't see how buffing melee as a whole is a problem for normal vs charge when they're both pretty much useless

 

That is YOUR point of view, some ppl, like me and many others here actually LIKE to go meele!

 

If u dont want/care/need to go meele it's fine to me, just dont post here, simple as that

[darrenalilim]

That is YOUR point of view, some ppl, like me and many others here actually LIKE to go meele!

 

If u dont want/care/need to go meele it's fine to me, just dont post here, simple as that

Can you please quote me where I said that I don't like playing melee? I actually MAIN melee, thank you for your baseless assumptions. I don't see why you're against buffing melee attacks...

[syphin38]

I'm not sure why normal dmg and charge dmg are separated in the first place. It basically forces you to spec and only use 1 of 2 options for melee. I think this is bad design. My favorite thing in this game is going in melee range and slicing enemies up. The problem, though, is that the melee system already doesn't have THAT much depth and can get boring fast. Then you take into account that if you don't spec for both regular and charge speed and dmg your stuck only doing one. Since charge is the superior option at the moment the most efficient way to melee (which is already less efficient then just shooting, even though melee is much riskier) is to stack all the charge mods and just spam that 1 charge attack making for a very bland experience. Charge damage should scale from normal damage that way you can use all the melee attacks in your arsenal instead of having to choose between them. Also I think melee should get buffed in general to actually reward you for the risk you take by going into melee range. Finally, I think the melee system should be looked at to add more variety. Maybe add a combo system where depending on the number of normal attacks you do before a charge attack the final animation will be different and have certain uses i.e.

N=normal attack C=charge

C=same charge attack we have now

NC= an uppercut that launches enemies

NNC= a lateral slice with for tearing through a mob of infested

NNNC= A powerful thrust attack that does massive damage to a single target (or multiple targets in a line)

etc...

These could also change per weapon giving more of a reason to buy/grind all of them to possibly find cool new combos.

Like a cool NNC combo for glaive could be instead of throwing it if you do 2 normal attack before the charge then the charge attack would be the glaive spinning in place on the arm like a saw while you do a lateral motion in front of you to mow down enemies.

Or a NNNC for the furax could be while doing the 3 normal attacks it starts glowing brighter and brighter and when you do the final charge the furax unleash a laser blast that penetratesin a straight line.

NC with the fragor could be after doing a normal attack then ofr the charge attack the frame would hold the hammer up high and smash it down on the ground to cause a massive aoe knockup

Edited June 9, 2013 by syphin38

[BleuNoir]

I would love this, buff the crit mods so they're in line with their gun counterparts as well.

 

1+.

 

I'd love a more in depth melee system , where you choose to aim your swing, parrying, blocking, etc. But the game is too fast paced to implement right now except if you're solo'ing against a boss.

 

This at least gives incentive for a underused mechanic.

[PaperAlien]

I actually think charge attacks should not even ignore armour. Armour is such a significant modifier at high levels that even with the buffed Pressure point(which, btw, still maxes out at 50% less than Killing Blow), charged attacks on slashing weapons still have a huge advantage. This also has the effect of making weapons like the Fragor redundant.

Also, charge attack speed is affected by both Fury and Reflex Coil, while normal attacks are only affected by Fury. That needs to be changed.

 

Alternatively, we could introduce a simple combo system where each consecutive attack in a light melee chain does more damage, with each attack doing about 20-30% more damage that the previous one (whether this is additive or multiplicative, and whether the combo resets with the animations can be variable). This would allow normal attacks to outclass charge attacks in long-term DPS, but charge attacks retain the ability to frontload damage on the short term.

[Exophase]

As crazy as this sounds, I wonder if they'll ever consider "leech" mods that allow you to benefit from regular attacks if they decide to keep the current damage as it is (including pressure point). For example, a mod that may restore 3~5 Health or Energy when you attack with a weapon. I would see a ton more dagger users then that would try this as a self-healing technique.

 

I know that's a little off topic-but I could see something like that happening. However, I do agree strongly that I'd like to see a new change to melee attacks in general that aren't charged attacks. There are some lovely animations. I'd like to put them to use.

[Linkages13]

Yay make regular attacks viable again :D

[SetAbominae]

There is no point to use melee AT ALL. So what, we're going to just focus on comparing something obsolete to something more obsolete? What's the point of that? I don't see how buffing melee as a whole is a problem for normal vs charge when they're both pretty much useless

 

Melee is useless, now I've seen it all.

 

Next on the forums : Despair sucks and needs to be buffed.

[fatpig84]

Buff Pressure point till it does 220% damage.

That will show em !

 

But we don't have the equal to split chamber.

Which is kinda sad lol.

Edited June 10, 2013 by fatpig84

[ForumSmurf]

think about it this way. Eventually enemies will become lvl 100 and DE will raise cap on all Serration, hornet, and pressure point anyways. At that point it will be revised.

[Phoenix86]

Can you please quote me where I said that I don't like playing melee? I actually MAIN melee, thank you for your baseless assumptions. I don't see why you're against buffing melee attacks...

 

I already did it, and u answered to my post where i quoted it, lol

If u dont want ppl to make wrong assumptions than write better ur posts.

Let's put a stone onto this and move on now, ok? i dont want/need a flamewar about misunderstanding, i have nothing against you man ^^

 

Back on topic:

 

The idea of having normal meele attacks increase their dmg during animations can be a nice idea too... our normal attacks already include (visually speaking) 3-4 different consecutive animations... making their dmg rise while you perform them would be great too! (this will reset to base dmg everytime a full animation's combo is complete)

Anyway simply buffing a mod is a first easy and effective step to reduce the gap

[elindred]

I agree with the OP overall, but I think the problem is that people will still just spam whichever move does most damage.

If this buff pushes attack dps past charge dps, then it will just replace charge attack spam with normal attack spam. It'll be a nice change of pace for a little while, but in the end you'll have introduced 0 new interesting choices to the player.

If charge attacks continue to deal the most damage after the buff, though, then will anything have changed?

 

It seems that in the end, regular attacks and charge attacks need to be differentiated in ways other than just damage, somehow, in order to make them both interesting.

[nanogenesis]

10 ranked pressure point with 440%?

 

Do want.

[Phoenix86]

Well normal attacks are good for stunlocking (with certain weapons it's innate, like Dual Ethers) that feature is different from damage and it's for "normal attacks only" basically, that could be a good counter to the innate armor ignore of charged attacks.

 

Also Organ Shatter (the crit dmg mod) does work only with normal attacks but since the crit chance is basically ZERO there's no point to have it...

 

My point of buffing Pressure Point is just a first small easy step, dont think it will be fine and resolutive of this whole problem ;)

[waftycrank]

Concur with OP sentiment.  I’ve got four frames to 30.  (Not many but enough to discover how games works.)  Firearm mods are far, far better than Melee mods.  Melee is clearly the most attractive aesthetic component of Warframe.  Trouble is Melee is very weak compared to guns.  It looks nice.  You feel cool doing it.  But you are almost always better off sticking to your guns.  Melee charge attack being clearly superior to normal attacks only further weakens viability of Melee.

 

I support OP’s normal damage buff.  (Needs to happen.  Normal attacks are too feeble.  Accepting Zoren-style weapons.) 

 

Also support adding combos.  (syphin38’s post.)

 

Also support reining in guns somewhat.  Currently they make the game so very, very easy.

[TrueSone]

De, this. Please listen to this guy. Countless threads have been made before regarding the issue of the Pressure Point mod, youse are good at listening to the community and it is one of the many reasons why this game is so successful. Listen to us one more time, PRESSURE POINT NEEDS TO BE BUFFED. That is all, thank you.

[Livers]

agree

[Haven]

OP speaks the truth. This needs some serious attention. 

[Phoenix86]

Thx guys for supporting, thx u all

 

I hope a DE or a mod will answer here soon and will take care of it once for all

[lZerul]

All of my support, I want to have a good reason to use my normal attacks beyond watching the awesome animations.

[Phoenix86]

Maybe it's excessive but since Killing Blow and Pressure Point are both a 6 ranks mod they can just share the values

 

(ofc buffing Pressure Point to Killing Blow level, not nerfing Killing Blow to Pressure Point level)

 

25 - 50 - 75 - 100 - 125 - 150 %

 

OR

 

Make Killing Blow affect both normal and charged attacks

 

and completely change Pressure Point in a brand new mod, i remember someone in this topic suggested a couple of ideas (credits to him):

 

- Resistance to staggering effects

- Chance to knock down on hit

[Draxxon]

I agree with the OP. Melee got a huge nerf in update 7. I don't think they need to be what they used to, but standard attacks could definitely use a buff. I think pressure point is where it needs to be.

Edited June 10, 2013 by Draxxon

[jetrouvepas]

10 ranks. 15%-20% increment per rank. Not less.

 

And a rescaling of True Steel, the critical chance mod. 20-25% per rank. Same as primary/secondary weapons.

 

It's all about scaling at high level and consistency. We saw this with rifles a few month ago, serration needed a buff for primaries to be efficient.