Energy is not a proper gate to ability use

[Teridax68]

(TL;DR below if you're pressed for time/not into walls of text)

This has probably been mentioned by others before, but energy, despite being core to many mechanics in Warframe, isn't the right way to gate ability use, imo, and so for many reasons:

• Running out isn't fun, and leads to less interesting gameplay overall: Whether it's warframes not yet equipped with the Streamline + Fleeting Expertise combo, or anyone disabled by Shock Eximi (particularly in Sorties), whenever running flat out of energy happens, it's never a good moment, and leaves players without any options besides weapons, which often end up covering far more of the action than proper ability use. Abilities are as essential to the expression of each individual warframe as parkour is to the game in general, yet whereas Stamina got eliminated in view of a fluid motion system, energy still exists, and leads to crappy moments where warframes end up losing all ability to express their unique power.
• Energy usage is binary, and neither extreme is good: To complement the above, energy use tends to fall into two broad categories: either you run out while you cast, and you end up constantly hitting low points of enjoyment, or you get to cast as much as you want for the duration of the mission, due to mods, drops, Trinity, etc., and energy as a resource becomes meaningless. This, in turn, leads to heavy ability spam, and:
• Abilities are innately spammy, and whenever the game is balanced around ability spam everyone loses: Back to the case of near-unlimited energy, players with the right mods get to spam their abilities, which means any mechanic that relies on a certain amount of downtime loses its necessary counterbalance, which then leads to cheesing with hard crowd control, invisibility, etc. As a result, enemies then have to become tougher, harder-hitting, or just downright cheesier, as is the case with most recent Corpus additions (e.g. Nullifiers, Comba, Scrambus, Isolator Bursas, Razorback), which negate the usage of abilities outright (Stalker too, though he at least feels more justified in doing so). This has led to a pretty warped endgame where mistakes are too often unfairly punished, and wins often get dictated based on who cheesed whom the hardest, all while frames without those metagame qualities have fallen to the wayside as a result. By all rights, we shouldn't have cases like perma-invincibility Valkyr, perma-invisibility Loki/Ash, or perma-CC Mirage, nor should those mechanics be considered essential for late-game survival, but that will forever be the case with the current energy-based model of ability gating.

Basically, we need a new way to gate ability use, and I think the proper alternative should be cooldowns: suddenly, ability use would become a case of proper timing and application rather than economy (why should Void-empowered demigods worry about their suits running out of juice is an interesting question in itself), abilities would be much more meaningfully gated (time is a precious resource in the middle of heated combat) and would have meaningful downtimes even when modded for spamminess, which would allow them to become even stronger and would allow each warframe to always be able to express its own power, beyond just weapons and pets. These cooldowns wouldn't have to be particularly long, and if implemented properly could perfectly mirror "proper" intended ability use.

• What about Power Efficiency? The most direct translation would likely just be cooldown reduction. The numbers should probably not be a direct translation from Power Efficiency, and multiple instances should probably not stack additively (though stacking Power Efficiency is likely an issue in and of itself), but the end result should be that warframes willing to mod for increased ability uptime should be able to do so, though not to a degree that eclipses alternatives like Power Strength, Power Duration, Power Range, etc.
• What about toggles? This is a more technical issue, but perhaps toggles should be given their own specific energy "pool" which would deplete while toggled on and recharge while toggled off. Many toggles at this point end up being practically always-on, and forcing a downtime could allow them to become more powerful, and therefore more visible (Valkyr could finally afford to deal more damage with her ult, for example).
• What about ability denial? I think the most direct answer to energy leech-type effects should just be disabling/silencing auras and other effects. To be honest, I'd much rather get rid of many current ability-denying units (Nullifiers most of all) and/or retune current units to be less binary in their counters, but at worst a blanket silencing effect would maintain their roles in fighting Tenno.
• What about channeling? Personally, I hate channeling and think the game would be all the better if it were removed and melee damage were directly buffed as a result, with mods and mechanics adjusted and all (perhaps effects like Life Strike should apply to power attacks instead or something, and timing your blocks right would reflect projectiles back Jedi-style). If channeling really needs to stay, and absolutely needs to mess up your ability usage (which isn't a really good starting point to design from), then perhaps it should silence your warframe while in use and maybe even for a little while after, or just disable your abilities for a short period after ending your channel.

TL;DR: Many of the game's current major issues, namely ability spam, late-game cheesing and damage-based frames falling off, come down to gating ability use with energy, which is about as good to warframe power expression and overall variety as Stamina was for parkour. What we need is to get rid of energy, implement (relatively short) cooldowns instead on abilities, and then move towards an endgame where cheesing would no longer be as prominent, and therefore where frames would each have more opportunities to express power meaningfully beyond perma-CC/invincibility.

Edited March 7, 2016 by Teridax68
Typos

[phoenix1992]

Sorry but this will not work in the current game. I Really like seeing people say "DEMOLISH", yet they tend to forget that game mechanics are together in a bundle. While stamina was relatively "easy" to remove, energy is much more integrated. Mods, auras, focus to begin with, to end with how many ways you can make your Warframe work, and how much time and money we have sinked in it... Not gonna lie, i am not trilled for this kind of enormous change. 

[Teridax68]

7 minutes ago, phoenix1992 said:

Sorry but this will not work in the current game. I Really like seeing people say "DEMOLISH", yet they tend to forget that game mechanics are together in a bundle. While stamina was relatively "easy" to remove, energy is much more integrated. Mods, auras, focus to begin with, to end with how many ways you can make your Warframe work, and how much time and money we have sinked in it... Not gonna lie, i am not trilled for this kind of enormous change. 

I'd argue Parkour 2.0 was a far bigger overhaul than this, since Stamina also had its own mods, impacted on many different core systems, including melee and movement (and, by extension, the design of many older tilesets and even warframes, as is the case with Zephyr), and also played a big part in determining builds, particularly since agility was always core to missions. I also proposed replacements to energy that I think would be intuitive, fun and not all that massively different from current setups, so I'm not just asking for the removal of a mechanic without adding back the necessary compensation, to both the game and players.

I'd also be wary about wanting to conserve mechanics purely for preservation's sake, since it kills all innovation and would halt any attempt to improve on stuff that really needs to be changed (as is, imo, the case with energy, as I explained in the OP). With that same reasoning, we wouldn't have Parkour 2.0, which I think implemented perhaps the best movement system out of any video game I have ever seen so far.

[phoenix1992]

Parkour 2.0 is arguable decision and please let's not comment on it.  
If changes should be made, they should be calculated. I am not asking for "old is gold" just because it is comfortable for me. I am asking for well made change, but I do not think it can be done with Warframe. Maybe Warframe II. This way they will skip all the negatives and get to do what they want.

[phoenix1992]

Parkour 2.0 is arguable decision and please let's not comment on it.  
If changes should be made, they should be calculated. I am not asking for "old is gold" just because it is comfortable for me. I am asking for well made change, but I do not think it can be done with Warframe. Maybe Warframe II. This way they will skip all the negatives and get to do what they want.

[phoenix1992]

Parkour 2.0 is arguable decision and please let's not comment on it.  
If changes should be made, they should be calculated. I am not asking for "old is gold" just because it is comfortable for me. I am asking for well made change, but I do not think it can be done with Warframe. Maybe Warframe II. This way they will skip all the negatives and get to do what they want.

[phoenix1992]

Parkour 2.0 is arguable decision and please let's not comment on it.  
If changes should be made, they should be calculated. I am not asking for "old is gold" just because it is comfortable for me. I am asking for well made change, but I do not think it can be done with Warframe. Maybe Warframe II. This way they will skip all the negatives and get to do what they want.

 

GOD DAMMIT FORUM

Edited March 7, 2016 by phoenix1992
FFS

[Aearie]

I can see the merit in this, but I personally don't believe cooldowns are the best solution. While it may not be considered tactical or interested to some, there are still people who would rather be able to use their abilities quickly and frequently. If someone wants to play as a more active "caster" so to speak, I think that should be allowable. I just don't seen cooldowns allowing that very well, unless the cooldowns were so low that they were barely noticeable. But then those abilities would have to be very weak, which probably wouldn't feel very fun to use. And also keep in mind that you would still be spamming abilities the moment you'd get them back anyway, especially attack based ones, so really the only difference would be that you would likely shoot your gun between ability spams. For instance, if I'm playing Ember, I'm going to fireball immediately after it gets off cooldown every single time. I'd wouldn't be maximizing my use of that ability if I didn't. Unless there would be no quick attacking based powers and each one would be an ability you'd only use in specific circumstances, you are still going to be using your abilities the moment you get them back. I don't really see that as being more tactical as much as it being more patient.

The nice thing about energy is that you can cast whenever you need to provided you have enough, which means having to worry less about managing time and more about managing when to conserve your abilities and when you shouldn't, which if anything feels more tangible than an arbitrary timer. I think a good solution would be to keep energy and have it naturally replenish at a moderately quick rate. Then, remove energy orbs from the game. This would hopefully mean that you would have consistent energy without having tons you could just burn through. Obviously this would require rebalancing mods, energy maximums may need to be reduced (maybe), and they'd probably want to nerf effects that drain your energy, but I think that this change would work pretty well and it wouldn't require a massive overhaul of the ability system.

[Teridax68]

6 minutes ago, Thursley said:

I can see the merit in this, but I personally don't believe cooldowns are the best solution. While it may not be considered tactical or interested to some, there are still people who would rather be able to use their abilities quickly and frequently. If someone wants to play as a more active "caster" so to speak, I think that should be allowable. I just don't seen cooldowns allowing that very well, unless the cooldowns were so low that they were barely noticeable. But then those abilities would have to be very weak, which probably wouldn't feel very fun to use. And also keep in mind that you would still be spamming abilities the moment you'd get them back anyway, especially attack based ones, so really the only difference would be that you would likely shoot your gun between ability spams. For instance, if I'm playing Ember, I'm going to fireball immediately after it gets off cooldown every single time. I'd wouldn't be maximizing my use of that ability if I didn't. Unless there would be no quick attacking based powers and each one would be an ability you'd only use in specific circumstances, you are still going to be using your abilities the moment you get them back. I don't really see that as being more tactical as much as it being more patient.

The nice thing about energy is that you can cast whenever you need to provided you have enough, which means having to worry less about managing time and more about managing when to conserve your abilities and when you shouldn't, which if anything feels more tangible than an arbitrary timer. I think a good solution would be to keep energy and have it naturally replenish at a moderately quick rate. Then, remove energy orbs from the game. This would hopefully mean that you would have consistent energy without having tons you could just burn through. Obviously this would require rebalancing mods, energy maximums may need to be reduced (maybe), and they'd probably want to nerf effects that drain your energy, but I think that this change would work pretty well and it wouldn't require a massive overhaul of the ability system.

I don't think "basic" abilities like Fireball, Shock, Banish etc. need a particularly high cooldown, nor does using them need to be a big point of decision; rather, the gameplay for abilities like those should be making the most out of each cast via aiming, positioning, target selection and the like. On the flipside, really impactful abilities, ultimates and/or "oh crap" buttons would be better off with some amount of downtime, even with a Power Efficiency build. In the case of quick attack powers, cooldowns would help them by, for example, compressing something like 3-4 casts' worth of power into a single ability use, so instead of having a spammy ability that deals piddly damage past a certain level you'd still be able to one-shot certain units. I also agree that players should be able to build towards quicker casts, which is why I think Power Efficiency should instead reduce cooldowns by a certain amount and therefore allow for high-uptime caster builds.

The idea of naturally recharging energy is somewhat already in place with Energy Siphon, and while that would avoid the case of running out of energy until a blue orb drops, it wouldn't solve the spam problem. It's true that every player wants to use every ability on-demand regardless of circumstances, but I think there's merit and far better gameplay in enforcing downtimes, even small ones, to ability use, if only because it would allow DE to not have to balance every ability around the potential of it being used literally nonstop.

[----Fenrir----]

DE tried cool downs. It did not work and people hated it. DE said they will never introduce cool down again.

[phoenix1992]

11 minutes ago, ----Fenrir---- said:

DE tried cool downs. It did not work and people hated it. DE said they will never introduce cool down again.

Things can change. Right now we have Inaros - he is an prototype of frame that deprecates one stat. We may get another one that deprecates energy all together. This may prove fascinating, without braking up the game all together.

[Teridax68]

31 minutes ago, ----Fenrir---- said:

DE tried cool downs. It did not work and people hated it. DE said they will never introduce cool down again.

When was that? I did a quick search on the web, the wiki and the forums, but nothing popped up.

Edited March 7, 2016 by Teridax68

[AKKILLA]

You made a good concept for something that should be implemented in another Game.

They took 5 years maybe more in developing this game and I am quiet sure that although Your concept sounds promising they will not destroy the original meta for Your pleasure. There are mods that will have to be destroyed and made new ones to compensate for Your new energy regen mechanic.

Not too bad but not possible, or likely to occur

[Teridax68]

3 minutes ago, AKKILLA said:

You made a good concept for something that should be implemented in another Game.

They took 5 years maybe more in developing this game and I am quiet sure that although Your concept sounds promising they will not destroy the original meta for Your pleasure. There are mods that will have to be destroyed and made new ones to compensate for Your new energy regen mechanic.

Not too bad but not possible, or likely to occur

Removing Stamina also incurred the removal of mods, and most of what I'm proposing would mostly incur a shift from energy cost reductions to cooldown reduction, not energy regen, and therefore conserve both mods and builds. The current meta is also not "the original meta", as it's changed considerably over time, nor is it really an ideal meta, considering how there are many vocal complaints surrounding the viability of many otherwise fun frames. Warframe has evolved enormously over time, including through updates far larger than what I'm suggesting, so I'm hopeful they'll address the issue of ability usage eventually. It may not have to be through cooldowns, but I wouldn't discount that option as impossible, as it could enhance gameplay and remain true to Warframe, perhaps even truer than the current situation where spamming certain abilities has become the norm in high-level play.

[AKKILLA]

1 minute ago, Teridax68 said:

Removing Stamina also incurred the removal of mods, and most of what I'm proposing would mostly incur a shift from energy cost reductions to cooldown reduction, not energy regen, and therefore conserve both mods and builds. The current meta is also not "the original meta", as it's changed considerably over time, nor is it really an ideal meta, considering how there are many vocal complaints surrounding the viability of many otherwise fun frames. Warframe has evolved enormously over time, including through updates far larger than what I'm suggesting, so I'm hopeful they'll address the issue of ability usage eventually. It may not have to be through cooldowns, but I wouldn't discount that option as impossible, as it could enhance gameplay and remain true to Warframe, perhaps even truer than the current situation where spamming certain abilities has become the norm in high-level play.

Ok, now You dipped the chip where it didnt belong looking to justify the loss of one mechanic to use as a justifiable means to implement a mechanic You think is necessary is fully incorrect. Stamina loss doesnt have anything in relation with Energy Mod changes or energy mechanics in general. You are implying a system of energy regen, or a cool down per say which may change warfarme as a whole in general. We have Efficiency mods for a reason. The use ofability spams is a optional meta but its there for a reason, the reason is to experiment and try different metas. These metas are used to achieve different ability mechanics and to succeed in different mission objectives or conditions. an energy regen systems or cool down will take away the control of how we access or utilize or energy. So now energy restores will be thrown out the window and we have to sit and wait till our energy regens. or forced to drag EV Trins in game because FE+Streamline say Bye Bye.

Your rant about permanent cheesing or perma invis is just a Bull dozer destroying a Structure, its like You showing up to DE headquarters and sayin ok now we are gonna demolish this building and I wanna make a Pool area and a Tennis court.

NO! we dont want it, keep cool downs in League of Legends or w.e You play. We dont want it

[phoenix1992]

6 minutes ago, AKKILLA said:

Ok, now You dipped the chip where it didnt belong looking to justify the loss of one mechanic to use as a justifiable means to implement a mechanic You think is necessary is fully incorrect. Stamina loss doesnt have anything in relation with Energy Mod changes or energy mechanics in general. You are implying a system of energy regen, or a cool down per say which may change warfarme as a whole in general. We have Efficiency mods for a reason. The use ofability spams is a optional meta but its there for a reason, the reason is to experiment and try different metas. These metas are used to achieve different ability mechanics and to succeed in different mission objectives or conditions. an energy regen systems or cool down will take away the control of how we access or utilize or energy. So now energy restores will be thrown out the window and we have to sit and wait till our energy regens. or forced to drag EV Trins in game because FE+Streamline say Bye Bye.

Your rant about permanent cheesing or perma invis is just a Bull dozer destroying a Structure, its like You showing up to DE headquarters and sayin ok now we are gonna demolish this building and I wanna make a Pool area and a Tennis court.

NO! we dont want it, keep cool downs in League of Legends or w.e You play. We dont want it

I am pretty Sure, even De thinks about the Pool area idea.

[AKKILLA]

1 minute ago, phoenix1992 said:

I am pretty Sure, even De thinks about the Pool area idea.

Noone will destroy a whole building for a senseless pool thats non sense

[Teridax68]

11 minutes ago, AKKILLA said:

Ok, now You dipped the chip where it didnt belong looking to justify the loss of one mechanic to use as a justifiable means to implement a mechanic You think is necessary is fully incorrect. Stamina loss doesnt have anything in relation with Energy Mod changes or energy mechanics in general. You are implying a system of energy regen, or a cool down per say which may change warfarme as a whole in general. We have Efficiency mods for a reason. The use ofability spams is a optional meta but its there for a reason, the reason is to experiment and try different metas. These metas are used to achieve different ability mechanics and to succeed in different mission objectives or conditions. an energy regen systems or cool down will take away the control of how we access or utilize or energy. So now energy restores will be thrown out the window and we have to sit and wait till our energy regens. or forced to drag EV Trins in game because FE+Streamline say Bye Bye.

Your rant about permanent cheesing or perma invis is just a Bull dozer destroying a Structure, its like You showing up to DE headquarters and sayin ok now we are gonna demolish this building and I wanna make a Pool area and a Tennis court.

NO! we dont want it, keep cool downs in League of Legends or w.e You play. We dont want it

Okay, so first off, I'm not suggesting we remove Power Efficiency builds, since I'm proposing a direct translation to it that would have the same effect, i.e. ultra-high ability uptime, so in the end those builds would still be viable and potentially more powerful in ways they cannot afford to be now (imagine if, say, Oberon's Hallowed Ground instantly revived fallen teammates or the like, something that would be completely OP now but viable if the ability had a downtime). I'm not proposing to throw out energy restores (not here anyway) or EV Trinity or the like either, since again those things could be directly ported to cooldown reduction (energy restores could instead be full cooldown resets, for example, which could end up being even more valuable). Second, I do think Stamina is worth mentioning here, since it was a mechanic that ran along pretty much the same lines as Energy, and ended up being a poor gate to a system that worked fine otherwise and was warped by the resource, as is the case for abilities and Energy now. Third, Power Efficiency/ability spam isn't really an "optional meta", as it has overtly defined the state of endgame in Warframe and directly influenced many recent design choices, to the point where alternatives, such as ability damage-oriented builds or, more generally, builds that don't rely on hard CC or invincibility spam, have become unviable. It's a common complaint both in-game on the forums, so this isn't just me standing on my soapbox, and neither does your own opinion on this subject let you speak on behalf of the entire Warframe community, particularly since at least a few players seem interested in the idea.

Edited March 7, 2016 by Teridax68

[phoenix1992]

3 minutes ago, AKKILLA said:

Noone will destroy a whole building for a senseless pool thats non sense

It is questionable. Will there be an good bar in the pool area?
OP, please it is starting to get really mashed up at this point, we are partially to blame for that, but the topic is way to hard for simple Tenno to decipher.

[Dragonknight525]

Personally I find the current energy system to be like you said, one tends to either have an overabundance of it or none at all. While I do agree it could use a look at, I'm currently leaning on have innate energy regeneration rather than cooldowns. My main issue with cooldowns is that players are far more limited to how they can use them. If they are per power player will liking wait around for them to come off cooldonw before moving on. In the event that is a global cooldown, ults or specific powers will see far more use compared to less "optimized" powers.

As for energy regen while I feel like it is the better option, it still has similar issues. The main issue being the rate ate which we gain energy, as if it is too high ult spam will still be the name-of-the-game and if it is too low people will stand around waiting for their energy to fill up. I've been playing around with some ideas, most of which are too rough to bother sharing just yet though, but I do feel that a regen system would allow for the possibility for differing builds (High efficiency for casting in quick succession , and high regen to allow for sustained casts for some examples).

[Teridax68]

1 minute ago, phoenix1992 said:

It is questionable. Will there be an good bar in the pool area?
OP, please it is starting to get really mashed up at this point, we are partially to blame for that, but the topic is way to hard for simple Tenno to decipher.

Perhaps the real estate analogy has gone a tad too far :P

In all seriousness, though, the core topic here is pretty basic: switch abilities with cooldowns, energy-related mods with cooldown mods and so on, and then allow warframes to have powerful abilities, including damage abilities that would scale far better into late-game, and effects whose existence would be justified by their downtimes (including current instances of invincibility or CC, which also need downtimes if the game is to remain as cheese-free as possible). A lot of people here have interpreted my suggestion as a plan to destroy Power Efficiency-based builds, but those were at the core of my thinking when I typed out the OP, and I think they deserve to shine even brighter now, though as one awesome build out of many, rather than an essential combo for any warframe that wants to use powers seriously in high-level missions.

[AKKILLA]

2 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:

Okay, so first off, I'm not suggesting we remove Power Efficiency builds, since I'm proposing a direct translation to it that would have the same effect, i.e. ultra-high ability uptime, so in the end those builds would still be viable and potentially more powerful in ways they cannot afford to be now (imagine if, say, Oberon's Hallowed Ground instantly revived fallen teammates or the like, something that would be completely OP now but viable if the ability had a downtime). I'm not proposing to throw out energy restores (not here anyway) or EV Trinity or the like either, since again those things could be directly ported to cooldown reduction (energy restores could instead be full cooldown resets, for example, which could end up being even more valuable). Second, I do think Stamina is worth mentioning here, since it was a mechanic that ran along pretty much the same lines as Energy, and ended up being a poor gate to a system that worked fine otherwise and was warped by the resource, as is the case for abilities and Energy now. Third, Power Efficiency/ability spam isn't really an "optional meta", as it has overtly defined the state of endgame in Warframe and directly influenced many recent design choices, to the point where alternatives, such as ability damage-oriented builds or, more generally, builds that don't rely on hard CC or invincibility spam, have become unviable. It's a common complaint both in-game on the forums, so this isn't just me standing on my soapbox, and neither does your own opinion on this subject let you speak on behalf of the entire Warframe community, particularly since at least a few players seem interested in the idea.

Does stamina have Stamina Restores?

Stamina had a meaningless impact in game imo im sorry Stamina being removed didnt make me miss it one bit. Now Energy you touched a completely different topic.This is were you need to tread carefully, I will try to state My opinion on the matter and I may miss out vital key points here but I cant see everything and may over look important factors but a Cool down should not be implemented in Warframe. I disagree with Warframe ability/Energy cool downs to the fullest. It will restrict Me from Spamming abilities.

Now if this is just a restriction gimmick you are trying to implement which is what I smell, then I will disagree even further. I understand everyone has a preference but to destroy a mechanic that others like just to accomodate Your liking is quiet selfish and not a good way to implement a concept just because You dont like a certain mechanic in game.

There are constant threads about nerfing, or lets call it Toning down abilities like Mirages Prism, Excaliburs EB waves, Valkyrs Hysteria, Ashs Bladestorm, etc...

Thats more likely what I am sensing from Your thread in general, is a restriction from these spams. You dont like abilities spammed and thats understandable but doesnt mean You should take that away from us. I can say how many things i dont like in Warframe and it wont necessarily go away cuz I dont like it.

Not everyone plays how You or I do

[AKKILLA]

2 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:

Perhaps the real estate analogy has gone a tad too far :P

In all seriousness, though, the core topic here is pretty basic: switch abilities with cooldowns, energy-related mods with cooldown mods and so on, and then allow warframes to have powerful abilities, including damage abilities that would scale far better into late-game, and effects whose existence would be justified by their downtimes (including current instances of invincibility or CC, which also need downtimes if the game is to remain as cheese-free as possible). A lot of people here have interpreted my suggestion as a plan to destroy Power Efficiency-based builds, but those were at the core of my thinking when I typed out the OP, and I think they deserve to shine even brighter now, though as one awesome build out of many, rather than an essential combo for any warframe that wants to use powers seriously in high-level missions.

So You wanna play League of legends? Nah I hate that Toxic Moba. I dont like any game other than Warframe I dont play other games and come to warframe with Ideas from other games to implement them into Warframe.

Its funny seeing PC gamers bring ideas recycled from other games into Warframe.

Hey fellas lets Play League of Frame

[Teridax68]

6 minutes ago, Dragonknight525 said:

Personally I find the current energy system to be like you said, one tends to either have an overabundance of it or none at all. While I do agree it could use a look at, I'm currently leaning on have innate energy regeneration rather than cooldowns. My main issue with cooldowns is that players are far more limited to how they can use them. If they are per power player will liking wait around for them to come off cooldonw before moving on. In the event that is a global cooldown, ults or specific powers will see far more use compared to less "optimized" powers.

As for energy regen while I feel like it is the better option, it still has similar issues. The main issue being the rate ate which we gain energy, as if it is too high ult spam will still be the name-of-the-game and if it is too low people will stand around waiting for their energy to fill up. I've been playing around with some ideas, most of which are too rough to bother sharing just yet though, but I do feel that a regen system would allow for the possibility for differing builds (High efficiency for casting in quick succession , and high regen to allow for sustained casts for some examples).

That's true, overly high cooldowns could incur unnecessary waiting, which is why I think they should be relatively short overall (e.g. the standard for a typical 1 ability should probably be something like 3 to 5 seconds, unmodded). Higher-end cooldowns on basic abilities should probably be, at most, 15-20 seconds (and that should only be for extreme cases), and ultimates should probably have a 1-minute cooldown. If that causes players to sit out cooldowns, then perhaps it might be better to base ults on a per-kill system, where each kill made by any member of your cell could "charge" your ultimate and allow you to cast it (it would also allow certain frames like Excal or Valkyr to keep up their ults if they get a constant killstreak rolling, and Nekros already runs on a similar system with SotD).

Energy regen is another really cool alternative, imo, but my main issue, aside from the one you brought up, is that it still allows certain abilities to have no downtime, at least up to a point, which then risks encouraging frames to spam one or two specific abilities over and over, and thus maintain a certain degree of cheese. There are perhaps other ways to address ability spam, particularly hard CC spam, but an advantage to cooldowns in this situation is that independent cooldowns could encourage usage of a warframe's full kit, rather than only a subset.

[Stratego89]

>Sees title.

>Assumes it's going to be someone saying to add cooldowns.

>Was right.

>Laughs for 3 minutes solid.

No. No cooldowns. Ever. DE tried that long ago- and it did not end well. They have said no cooldowns ever. The community says no cooldowns ever. So... no cooldowns.............. ever.