This newest hotfix pushes Draco farm even more.

[KutieKat]

10 minutes ago, F-Minus said:

I still don't understand why people have issues with how other people manage their playtime. What impact does Draco farm or any other farm for that matter, have on your game?

It doesn't at all. I never once called for a nerf for Draco, and am one of the players who do not care if others do or use "exploits" aka: good group dynamics and teamwork to speed through things. It doesn't bother me at all. To each their own. What bothers me is they are removing any other option to quickly level gear and gain focus other then Draco. Which kills game and mission type diversity. That is my issue.

 

 

3 minutes ago, ElCorintio said:

Why the Draco hate? I really enjoy playing Draco with random people... There's something fun/hard/stupid thing happend... From low level players dying the whole time, to people making like no damage at all with unranked weapons. The only downside is when you get a team with an Excal and a Trinity who wants to play Draco "properly"... That's boring to me. But aside of that, Draco it's really fun... If you want to play.

At the end, the solution is to buff the solo farming, or make more options to focus farming. EX; Spy missions Bonus if undetected, Exterminate bonus to Focus if under X mins, Defense missions Focus bonus to xxx enemies killed, etc...


If you lower the affinity cost, people just going to exploit the thing even more, and later rage for another thing. 

 

Its okay if you want to play Draco, and I have no issue with that. I have no hate towards Draco or the people who use it. The worse that can come from Draco players are some high mastery rank players with subpar knowledge on game mechanics for someone of their Mastery Rank. And that in itself isn't always true. Draco players do not bother me at all. To each their own. And I agree with you they should buff other mission types in different ways for more affinity. This thread was about how they nerfed one mission type and made the affinity possibilities less diverse.

[KutieKat]

double post

 

Edited March 8, 2016 by KutieKat
doublepost

[--Q--XFA]

13 minutes ago, KutieKat said:

Its okay if you want to play Draco, and I have no issue with that. I have no hate towards Draco or the people who use it. The worse that can come from Draco players are some high mastery rank players with subpar knowledge on game mechanics for someone of their Mastery Rank. And that in itself isn't always true. Draco players do not bother me at all. To each their own. And I agree with you they should buff other mission types in different ways for more affinity. This thread was about how they nerfed one mission type and made the affinity possibilities less diverse.

This one. this is why i hate draco. other than that, i love it.

[pumaferd]

8 minutes ago, Stratego89 said:

You're.... you're joking right? "Dynamic" "requiring lots of movement and timing". You mean loading into a mission, pressing 2, and walking behind everything at a casual pace pressing your melee button and occasionally hiding behind a corner to press 2 again?

Seriously. Loki stealth exploit is no better than draco in the laz- erm... "efficiency" factor. The only thing that makes draco worse is the toxicity and elitism that it breeds on the side.

 

Here's my personal suggestion for DE. Make farming focus impossible. It's an end game system that's meant to take a long time to level up and you should know better by now- DE- that your players carry a mentality that makes it physically impossible for them to resist exhausting themselves over something pointless by grinding something they'd get anyways by playing their normal missions; for no reason other than because they see a bar that isn't filled.

I can agree with that in the way of "to each his own", which is why I ask (not necessarily to you) why nerf stealth to the ground for those that prefer solo.  I find loki stealth more enjoyable than Draco, and I'd have to if it's much slower than Draco runs.  As for focus, it's not that big a deal to me.  People may assume that's what I'm after, but since focus has come out, I've made no concerted effort to get it until this weekend with some tries on Draco (yes Draco!).  I only have a level on two branches of naramon -- that's it!

I enjoy stealth kills, lol.  Why nerf it?

7 minutes ago, ElCorintio said:

Why the Draco hate? I really enjoy playing Draco with random people... There's something fun/hard/stupid thing happend... From low level players dying the whole time, to people making like no damage at all with unranked weapons. The only downside is when you get a team with an Excal and a Trinity who wants to play Draco "properly"... That's boring to me. But aside of that, Draco it's really fun... If you want to play.

At the end, the solution is to buff the solo farming, or make more options to focus farming. EX; Spy missions Bonus if undetected, Exterminate bonus to Focus if under X mins, Defense missions Focus bonus to xxx enemies killed, etc...


If you lower the affinity cost, people just going to exploit the thing even more, and later rage for another thing. 

I dislike Draco in some regards, but that doesn't mean I'm going to start telling DE to nerf it to the ground.  People enjoy what they enjoy and I respect that.

These are some constructive suggestions for focus, and I definitely think DE should consider these and other suggestions out there.  However, for me, this issue does not revolve around focus.

4 minutes ago, Sixty5 said:

Ok lets see. 

I ran about 7 or 8 spy missions in about 45 minutes and then finished off levelling it in a void survival with mates. 

I might just be old school here, but in my mind it should take longer than 20 minutes to max a weapon, regardless of how. 

Additionally I myself was unknowingly abusing that mechanic awhile back, running one sabotage mission to complete my quota for the Inaros quest. 

The issue that Itake with it beyond the thematic one is that you lose the trade off. Spy missions give good chunks of exp pretty easily for solo players, while endless moded give you masses of enemies and experience at the cost of getting harder as they progress. 

  The ability to run endless spy missions breaks the balance of experience gain, and thus needed fixing, and they did so in a manner which doesn't break how the mission is intended to work, or nerf game mechanics.

the end result of the changes is that you lose out on exp per minute, but gain more rewards per minute when optimally farming spy or other missions. 

 

Your original mention was 2 hours, so that's what I used.  Change it to 45 minutes and it's still more tedious, but I'll take your points into consideration:

If it needs to take longer than 20 minutes, that's your right to have that opinion -- some major changes will have to be made to achieve disabling power leveling throughout the game while keeping it enjoyable for many.  There are many people that are not able to do that type of spy to max weapons.  It's not as easy as being a leech on Draco.  Also, adding the term "old school" brings no additional merit to the viewpoint.  Unless you can demonstrate objectively why a weapon should take longer than 20 minutes to max (assuming that's a constant value which of course its not and varies by player skill level), it's weighted the same as any other non-substantiated opinion.

That's fine that you take issue with the spy mission theme.  Can you please respond to my point about how this fails to fully address the nerf which applies to more than just spy?

The end result is indeed that you lose out on exp per minute, but you also lose out on long kill streaks, using stealth as a game mechanic for long term missions that, believe or not, people can enjoy.  Yours is not the only opinion on what is fun.

Also, you gain nothing.  You were already able to do that before.  I consider farming spy to be far, far more boring that doing a single mission -- I get less rewards, but I get more enjoyment.  Can you understand that?

What balance is being broken?  Endless spy is less effective than other options available to squads.  What balance was restored with this nerf?  Can also please address my point that this nerf has no impact on how you play the game and only impacts other solo players?

I really don't see a point in responding to you again, because you've just repeated the same things ad nauseam without substantiating them.  You're welcome to your opinion, and I will defend your right to have one, but please don't claim it as the one true answer unless you can substantiate it.

[DxAdder]

28 minutes ago, TopMaverick said:

hey, did you know that draco is the best way to draco? I sure do like to draco some draco-points while using excalibur's RJ. I like what draco has become recently, now loki stealth "endless" runs aren't a thing to get my draco-points capped for the day, I need to gain all my 100k points solo! Hopefully with the new draco-map rework for draco update 19 will solve all of our draco-point problems and we can go back to farming our daily caps with stealth\voids\or anything not draco *with a resonable adjustment to focus gains for non-endless missions of course*.

 

Wow if they even hint at nerfing Draco these boards will on fire, that would be one of the worst ideas DE has ever had.

If they Nerf Draco there are telling the players buy booster or enjoy grindframe or welcome to pay to win.

Do you really want Draco players out in the rest of the Star Map ? They will crush every PUG pulling 75% of the damage. New players will drop this game in a heart beat.

Best to let the power games have there fun in Draco and the causal's go do there own thing else where.

I'm hoping the new Star Map will have normal missions with sortie level enemies which would solve alot of these issues.

 

[Shifted]

They just need to rework the xp gain system already so afking endless missions isn't the most efficient method..

[ClinkzEastwood]

2 hours ago, SYL3NZR said:

DE nuked the living crap out of Mesa AND Saryn for this reason, and attempted to do the same to excal for the same reason (even tho that kinda backfired)

Not this S#&$ again.

Also current Saryn can do Draco as fast as RJ.

[Kukukatchoo]

I like the spy changes because I can run into each vault, hack the alarms, kill everyone in the room behind me, and not worry about anything following me into the vault. Helps with rushing a bit.

Aside from that, the change seems confusing for me. Seems like a serious heel-turn from when I first played Warframe, I tried stealthing like TES and I realized the enemies spawned back. The first step to realizing how this game was about grinding! Killing a lot! Taking away the stealth version of killing a lot doesn't seem very "Warframe." Weird!!

[KutieKat]

8 minutes ago, ClinkzEastwood said:

Not this S#&$ again.

Also current Saryn can do Draco as fast as RJ.

Agreed. My rank 18 Saryn was able to completely wreck Draco without breaking a sweat. Rank 30 just blows it out the water.

 

[/spoiler/]

[Misgenesis]

Here's how my leveling usually goes. Grab new weapon, take it to spy to level it up to 11. Jump to survival, Cassini/Saturn. Level it to somewhere around 20 and after that level it wherever passively.

If i like the weapon and forma it multiple times, then Spy/Deception/Sabotage was my go to way to level it back up fast. I never even used those to farm Focus.

So now what? I dont mind going to Cassini for  the first few times but doing it over and over again to level the same thing is a chore. Now my only other option is Draco and id like to avoid that like the plague.

JUST.

Edited March 8, 2016 by Misgenesis

[-Mr.Meeseeks-]

Yeah, it's pretty annoying. I used to run a particular Grineer deception mission and stealth kill enemies in the main room for Focus farming. Now that enemies no longer respawn, that doesn't work anymore. Guess i'll be heading off to Draco more often then.

[pumaferd]

15 minutes ago, ClinkzEastwood said:

Not this S#&$ again.

Also current Saryn can do Draco as fast as RJ.

And more enjoyably, IMO.  Also, whatever happened to run and gun?  With a fast playstyle, you can do quite a lot with just weapons.

[SYL3NZR]

21 minutes ago, KutieKat said:

Agreed. My rank 18 Saryn was able to completely wreck Draco without breaking a sweat. Rank 30 just blows it out the water.

 

 

Hidden Content

how many rounds is that? regardless thats absolute GARBAGE considering what draco is: powerfarming

anything below 1100 kills per rounds is worthless crap and not mentionworthy, best rounds ive seen is 1600 almost

"wrecking draco" pfft, next im seeing a guy who makes 5 kills a minute with lato and is "absolutely destroying xXx"

[Misgenesis]

5 minutes ago, SYL3NZR said:

how many rounds is that? regardless thats absolute GARBAGE considering what draco is: powerfarming

anything below 1100 kills per rounds is worthless crap and not mentionworthy, best rounds ive seen is 1600 almost

"wrecking draco" pfft, next im seeing a guy who makes 5 kills a minute with lato and is "absolutely destroying xXx"

This here is the average Draco player to me.

[pumaferd]

1 minute ago, SYL3NZR said:

how many rounds is that? regardless thats absolute GARBAGE considering what draco is: powerfarming

anything below 1100 kills per rounds is worthless crap and not mentionworthy, best rounds ive seen is 1600 almost

"wrecking draco" pfft, next im seeing a guy who makes 5 kills a minute with lato and is "absolutely destroying xXx"

I agree that's it's way less than what's capable on Draco.  Purpose built draco squads can get an enormous amount of affinity there, but I don't think either Kutiekat or I are the people that powerfarm draco (what some may call the draco exploiters).  WIth all four towers capped and randoms, that's more than 99% of the warframe playerbase can do.  I'd love to see 1100 per round with all 100% to 0% enemy captured if you've got a screen.

I wouldn't call it garbage at all, though, because I'm sure she enjoyed herself tremendously, and no one is going to be able to do much more than that in the same scenario.  With a squad of box mounted warframes and a 100% to 99% victory per round, of course you'll get far more kills.  You spent considerably longer per round and are maximizing enemies and it'll be subjectively mind-numbing.

[pumaferd]

1 minute ago, Misgenesis said:

This here is the average Draco player to me.

Yeah, I kind of think he may be joking and poking fun at it.

[AgentScarlet]

Unpopular opinion: the spawning changes are an improvement. I always hated it when enemies obviously appeared out of thin air in small dead-end rooms I'd cleared seconds ago.

[Misgenesis]

3 minutes ago, pumaferd said:

Yeah, I kind of think he may be joking and poking fun at it.

I would hope so

[KutieKat]

52 minutes ago, SYL3NZR said:

how many rounds is that? regardless thats absolute GARBAGE considering what draco is: powerfarming

anything below 1100 kills per rounds is worthless crap and not mentionworthy, best rounds ive seen is 1600 almost

"wrecking draco" pfft, next im seeing a guy who makes 5 kills a minute with lato and is "absolutely destroying xXx"

I don't do the cap 2 towers and hold the 1% advantage until the round ends on Draco. That is completely boring and not fun to me. If that is your goal to go to Draco and powerfarm to the maximum efficiency, so be it. As pumaferd mentioned, box mounted squads can get far more kills but is infinitely more boring to me. He is my husband by the way; and we have done the box mounted play in the past and quickly got tired of it. We've done all the cheap combos you can think of in the past. RJ excal with trin, and then greedy pull mesa. And for a short while max range power strength equinox + banshee sonar before they nerfed that to the ground. Sure its efficient, but I'd rather watch lead paint dry and then eat the lead chips. Don't forget that screenshot is just a rank 18 Saryn starting. I didn't even have max mods on her or her abilities fully leveled.

 I avoid those "meta" groups and leave them if that is the direction a PUG in Draco goes. In my experience, they add to the toxicity of the node. Which is one reason why I left it in the first place to go farm spy solo or with my husband. Its more fun.

 

Edited March 8, 2016 by KutieKat

[ThePredicament]

Technically, Draco isn't the problem, efficient farming is, and even then it's not a real actual problem.

I don't advocate Draco/Cerberus meta farming but there's a difference between standing in one spot, killing enemies while still performing the mission albeit slowly and stealth killing enemies as they spawn into a room to take advantage of stealth affinity mult but indefinitely halting mission progress.

[Stratego89]

10 hours ago, pumaferd said:

I can agree with that in the way of "to each his own", which is why I ask (not necessarily to you) why nerf stealth to the ground for those that prefer solo.  I find loki stealth more enjoyable than Draco, and I'd have to if it's much slower than Draco runs.  As for focus, it's not that big a deal to me.  People may assume that's what I'm after, but since focus has come out, I've made no concerted effort to get it until this weekend with some tries on Draco (yes Draco!).  I only have a level on two branches of naramon -- that's it!

I enjoy stealth kills, lol.  Why nerf it?

That's the thing- They didn't nerf stealth at all. Stealth kills STILL give the same bonus to affinity gained. Stealth kills STILL give the EXACT same amount of focus. The ONLY THING that changed is that enemies can no longer continuously spawn RIGHT in front of you as you kill them while sitting invisible with Loki. That is NOT stealth- that is abuse of an exploit. That is the SOLE thing that was "nerfed" here. An exploit. I am someone who actually ENJOYS the PROPER stealth in the game. Invisibility is not stealth- it's cheese. Stealth is sneaking around and killing everything methodically without being caught- not walking in front of something and going "LEL CANT SEE ME". And AS someone who enjoys proper stealth in this game- the "no enemies will spawn in areas behind you if you have not alerted them" change is VERY... VERY welcome. It keeps me from having to worry about random enemies that spawned from some tiny little room a few meters behind me only to walk out and immediately ruin my run.

 

TL;DR- Stealth was NOT nerfed. People are just saying it was because they lost their focus exploit. That is not stealth- it really annoys me to see people abusing an exploit try to call that stealth and scream nerfs. Focus is something you should have to earn guys. Stop whining about them fixing something you KNOW you were abusing. (that's directed at everyone, not the person I'm replying to)

[Omnimorph]

15 hours ago, LittleArachnid said:

The only thing I'd say about this suggestion is while I agree that levelling up forma-d weapons and warframes would be lovely, the question is what if you forma the weapon max 6 times, how much percentage less each time would it take to level up a forma-d item? If that twas addressed I'd say hell yeah make forma-ing things better and more efficiently.

 

I'd set it on a downward sloping curve - so 1st forma a bit less time, 2nd forma a bit less time than that, till with, say, the 6th forma you're on about half the time to level the weapon/frame to 30.  I don't know what the right numbers should be, but probably somewhere around that.

THEN you could nerf Draco and there wouldn't be a mass exodus.

Essentially DE have to balance between, on the one hand, ensuring that new players and mid-level players play through the game, put time into it, smell the roses, and that it's just on the cusp of being addictive enough to grind for things you want, but slightly boring enough so that some small percentage of players will impatiently buy plat; and on the other hand, allowing experienced players who HAVE paid their dues to still enoy the game after their zillionth forma on a weapon.

They could have nerfed Draco since forever, the fact they haven't means that they're well aware of the latter half of the dilemma, IMHO.

Having increasing returns the more forma you put into a weapon or frame seems to me the best solution that would allow players to not particularly have to bother about some special mission type to level up their 5th or 6th forma-ed weapon.

[--RV--LadySpiderwick]

3 hours ago, Omnimorph said:

I'd set it on a downward sloping curve - so 1st forma a bit less time, 2nd forma a bit less time than that, till with, say, the 6th forma you're on about half the time to level the weapon/frame to 30.  I don't know what the right numbers should be, but probably somewhere around that.

THEN you could nerf Draco and there wouldn't be a mass exodus.

Essentially DE have to balance between, on the one hand, ensuring that new players and mid-level players play through the game, put time into it, smell the roses, and that it's just on the cusp of being addictive enough to grind for things you want, but slightly boring enough so that some small percentage of players will impatiently buy plat; and on the other hand, allowing experienced players who HAVE paid their dues to still enoy the game after their zillionth forma on a weapon.

They could have nerfed Draco since forever, the fact they haven't means that they're well aware of the latter half of the dilemma, IMHO.

Having increasing returns the more forma you put into a weapon or frame seems to me the best solution that would allow players to not particularly have to bother about some special mission type to level up their 5th or 6th forma-ed weapon.

It would make me want to forma my weapons and warframes more (when I have the forma to spare, I ran out of them xD) to cater for special builds. In place of nerfing Draco a bit, that's a fair tradeoff, easier way to level up forma-ing stuff with the reduction of how much you get from Draco. As much as it is my go to place for extremely easy level maxing on my forma-d weapons...well when I just want them maxed out so I can move on from levelling. 

[pumaferd]

11 hours ago, Stratego89 said:

That's the thing- They didn't nerf stealth at all. Stealth kills STILL give the same bonus to affinity gained. Stealth kills STILL give the EXACT same amount of focus. The ONLY THING that changed is that enemies can no longer continuously spawn RIGHT in front of you as you kill them while sitting invisible with Loki. That is NOT stealth- that is abuse of an exploit. That is the SOLE thing that was "nerfed" here. An exploit. I am someone who actually ENJOYS the PROPER stealth in the game. Invisibility is not stealth- it's cheese. Stealth is sneaking around and killing everything methodically without being caught- not walking in front of something and going "LEL CANT SEE ME". And AS someone who enjoys proper stealth in this game- the "no enemies will spawn in areas behind you if you have not alerted them" change is VERY... VERY welcome. It keeps me from having to worry about random enemies that spawned from some tiny little room a few meters behind me only to walk out and immediately ruin my run.

 

TL;DR- Stealth was NOT nerfed. People are just saying it was because they lost their focus exploit. That is not stealth- it really annoys me to see people abusing an exploit try to call that stealth and scream nerfs. Focus is something you should have to earn guys. Stop whining about them fixing something you KNOW you were abusing. (that's directed at everyone, not the person I'm replying to)

Alright, so let's say they made it so only one life support pod spawned per 10 minutes and the life support enemy drops occured at 1/10th their current rate.  Would that mean they have nerfed survival?  Of course not, right?  You can still play survival missions... right?

So enemies were spawning right in front of you and they fixed that?  What are you talking about?  You clearly haven't bothered to read my posts to understand my position and views before critiquing them.  The closest thing I can think of that you describe is the Uranus exploit.  It's the only time I've seen what you've described.  Yeah they fixed those and should continue to fix exploits like that with enemies just spawning in front you in plain sight.  Actually seeing an enemy spawn in is somewhat rare.

You say "the ONLY THING that changed is that enemies can no longer continuously spawn RIGHT in front of you as you kill them".  I'm going to hold you to that statement now.  So if that's all they've changed then I suppose you'd be fine with enemies spawning hmm, 100m away?  In other rooms out of sight?  Two rooms away out of sight?  I'd give you that compromise, but I think I exposed your exaggerations.  I would happily accept the same spawn rates, but limiting it to two rooms away.

I respect your desired method of playing, and as I've mentioned before a compromise could be reached, but completely nerfing the previous stealth playstyle which I've described is annoying, and not just to me.

I think you need to tone down the exaggerations for your post to be taken seriously.  Everyone here plays the game and no one is falling for "enemies continuously spawning RIGHT in front of you as you kill them" -- that's absurd; if that was happening, then I'm all for fixing it (hopefully you were screencapping or recording and reporting these as bugs).  Maybe that's what was going on in the Deception exploit, I never tried it or saw it.

Also, regarding "random enemies that spawned from some tiny little room a few meters behind me": enemies stop spawning when you are near the spawn location.  They had probably already spawned in when you returned to the larger room that contains the smaller deadend spawning rooms and were sauntering around in there, but you were not being mindful enough of it.  I'm not saying this is an absolute.  In the hundreds, possibly thousands of spy missions I've done, I've seen these things happen extremely rarely.  It'd be more likely to see Hate drop than see that happen.

Again, if everything you say is true and that's what your only problems are, I would actually agree with you.  The problem is enemies don't spawn within 100 meters now; enemies don't spawn within 1000 meters anymore.  They spawn once and done.  That to me is more broken than enemies spawning back in a room that's a couple rooms/cooridors away (or one room/cooridor for the very large rooms).

I'd suggest you read the thread and understand my position and the positions of others before inaccurately portraiting my views and critiquing those false views and then grossly exaggerate the situation.  I do not want enemies spawning right in front of me...  I want them spawning in the level again.

Edited March 9, 2016 by pumaferd

[F-Minus]

On 3/8/2016 at 5:01 AM, KutieKat said:

It doesn't at all. I never once called for a nerf for Draco, and am one of the players who do not care if others do or use "exploits" aka: good group dynamics and teamwork to speed through things. It doesn't bother me at all. To each their own. What bothers me is they are removing any other option to quickly level gear and gain focus other then Draco. Which kills game and mission type diversity. That is my issue.

Its okay if you want to play Draco, and I have no issue with that. I have no hate towards Draco or the people who use it. The worse that can come from Draco players are some high mastery rank players with subpar knowledge on game mechanics for someone of their Mastery Rank. And that in itself isn't always true. Draco players do not bother me at all. To each their own. And I agree with you they should buff other mission types in different ways for more affinity. This thread was about how they nerfed one mission type and made the affinity possibilities less diverse.

That's the general problem with this game and why nodes like Draco will always be popular. 

The leveling up is exceptionally boring, and doesn't really do much for the game, except force people to spend time on it (which is most likely the ultimate goal). If you want to forma an item 5 times, you better run Draco and be done in one hour, or you could do all the other things and waste a lot more time. Whilst Draco is pretty mindless and dumb, at least it's not exploiting as stealth was, this is why spawn mechanics were changed or if you want to call it nerfed. 

That being said, I despise Draco myself, I go there when formaing, otherwise for general first time leveling of stuff I just play it normally. But DE know of those issues with leveling and are working on a solution for that as far as I know, and with the star chart change, Draco will most likely go away, or at least not be available 24/7.