Second Dream Thoughts (late to the party edition) [Spoilers]

[CriticalFumble]

5 hours ago, Heatnix. said:

PrVonTuckIII: I think that little scene was just a bone thrown to people to make us hope there's more to a Warframe... but at the same time we can justify it as a self defense system. it's a bio-machine, after all, even without the battery (Tenno) it must have some sort of self-doing programming or features.

Again.  Rhino. Prime. Codex.  There's also Chroma, who doesn't fall dead but instead runs off when he's freed from external control. 

The prototypes were fully autonomous.  Not exactly intelligent, and certainly not human like we think of it, but some form of "alive".  If the original warframes were created by the Orokin or just discovered, and if they're a strain of Infestation or something more unique is unknown; but they're not just robot suits. 

I'll not beat the dead horse about the merits of Tenno as characters.  But I will say that the possibilities that arise from being able to transfer consciousness into bodies separated by a great distance makes me chuckle manically.  Not that the game is complex enough to take advantage of that, but still fun ideas. 

[Aimop95]

Well I liked the reveal.

I honestly thought we were void energy beings, but I've grown attached to my operator. Ironically I don't feel like I'm the operator, I feel like the warframe, and the operator is just one person I must protect with my life.

 

I dunno if DE meant it to be that way, but that's the vibe I'm getting since after playing the second dream.

[Heatnix.]

Nah. Warframes aren't alive. That's wishful thinking and wishing is pointless now demonstrated by DE downgrading the Tenno from Ninjas to paraplegic kids with a dream.

[Littlerift]

6 minutes ago, Heatnix. said:

Nah. Warframes aren't alive. That's wishful thinking and wishing is pointless now demonstrated by DE downgrading the Tenno from Ninjas to paraplegic kids with a dream.

 

Wow, so you lack both the level of attention needed to see the Warframe act on its own in the Second Dream, and the level of empathy needed to not make jokes at the expense of disabled people. A winning formula, I'm sure.

 

People continuously complain that DE has taken the allure and mystery out Warframe while admitting that what they wanted to believe about the Warframes was the most cliche and obvious thing imaginable.

[Heatnix.]

52 minutes ago, Littlerift said:

 

Wow, so you lack both the level of attention needed to see the Warframe act on its own in the Second Dream, and the level of empathy needed to not make jokes at the expense of disabled people. A winning formula, I'm sure.

 

People continuously complain that DE has taken the allure and mystery out Warframe while admitting that what they wanted to believe about the Warframes was the most cliche and obvious thing imaginable.

No, I did see that part but I've explained a lot the motives behind it on this topic waaay too much. And what they did is also pretty cliche. Very cliche. So... I don't get your point.

(also I'm not making fun of disabled people. Being paraplegic is a condition that describes the situation of the operators completely. I can avoid the word to not offend your delicate sensibilities if you'd like?)

So many people post with an attitude just wanting me to change my opinion because they think I'm wrong for not liking what they like. It's as if they wanted me to change my opinion when they type theirs as if I couldn't maintain my own and as if mine never mattered. What the hell kind of people want to shove their ideas into others without a discussion and just being aggressive about it? I was having fun with people adding points of view that were worth reading here not just a "lol you are dumb because you don't like what we like". Geez.

Edited March 11, 2016 by Heatnix.

[BornWithTeeth]

34 minutes ago, Heatnix. said:

(also I'm not making fun of disabled people. Being paraplegic is a condition that describes the situation of the operators completely. I can avoid the word to not offend your delicate sensibilities if you'd like?)

 

It's not, actually. The Operators aren't paralysed, they're able to move all of their limbs. Their physical weakness is very clearly some sort of atrophy, possibly from such long hibernation.

 

This means that with time and therapy, they can probably regain the ability to walk and run. It would be pretty cool to be able to walk around the Orbiter and Dojo in our real bodies.

[Littlerift]

46 minutes ago, Heatnix. said:

No, I did see that part but I've explained a lot the motives behind it on this topic waaay too much. And what they did is also pretty cliche. Very cliche. So... I don't get your point.

(also I'm not making fun of disabled people. Being paraplegic is a condition that describes the situation of the operators completely. I can avoid the word to not offend your delicate sensibilities if you'd like?)

So many people post with an attitude just wanting me to change my opinion because they think I'm wrong for not liking what they like. It's as if they wanted me to change my opinion when they type theirs as if I couldn't maintain my own and as if mine never mattered. What the hell kind of people want to shove their ideas into others without a discussion and just being aggressive about it? I was having fun with people adding points of view that were worth reading here not just a "lol you are dumb because you don't like what we like". Geez.

Except you haven't received a single reply that has said 'lol you're dumb because you don't like what we like', you've receive lots of replies detailing why people find your opinion to be erroneous. You can dislike the Second Dream all you like, but when you post about how the Second Dream ruined the story people are going to take issue with that, especially if you're going to admit that you didn't even pay enough attention to the Second Dream as to notice the Warframe acting of its own accord in the penultimate scene.

 

And what's cliché about it? Every story has been done before and so nothing DE did would ever have been original, but having the Tenno be physically weak and adolescent is the complete opposite of what we tend to get in sci-fi games, i.e. grizzled space warriors who talk only in jingoistic catchphrases, or snarky wise-guys.

 

And the the word paraplegic isn't the issue, the sentence 'downgrading the Tenno from ninjas to paraplegic kids with a dream' is.

[CriticalFumble]

1 hour ago, Heatnix. said:

No, I did see that part but I've explained a lot the motives behind it on this topic waaay too much. And what they did is also pretty cliche. Very cliche. So... I don't get your point.

(also I'm not making fun of disabled people. Being paraplegic is a condition that describes the situation of the operators completely. I can avoid the word to not offend your delicate sensibilities if you'd like?)

No, they can move their legs, they use them to help scoot over to the frame after they, ah, uncouple from the transference pod.  Its closer to muscle atrophy in some form, they were locked in the pod for a good thousand years or more, after all. 

You've basically argued a version of "No True Scotsman" through the entire thread.  Appearing young and using a warframe remotely does not make the Void-fragged, possibly ageless Tenno with decades of experience does not make them not "real" warriors any more than a bomb squad guy that uses a robot to defuse bombs safely not a "real" bomb squad guy.  Similarly, fighting by remote doesn't make their actions any less their own.  Even though they have no real skin in a fight, if they thought they could die, does that make them any less brave than if they really could have? 

The only significant change is the righteous indignation for fiddling with warframes has lost the whole "murdered Tenno" aspect.  Now its "just" not wanting the greedy, violent powers that dominate the system from figuring out how to use the technology in a warframe for themselves.  Which is not an insignificant threat given what warframes are capable of. 

To be direct, this is actually a fairly mild conversation.  I'd guess it seems bad to you because you appear to be going through a kind of "divorce process" with at least an aspect of the game, and many of us have been seeing versions of this thread from when 18.0 first popped in (and are a little tired of the same one without any new nuance to it).  To turn your statement on its head, you open up by insisting that your opinion is the "right" one, how do you defend yourself being offend by other people doing the same? 

[Heatnix.]

I am divorcing the game and will hop on a motorcycle that runs entirely on spite.

I thought they were incapacitated entirely which is why they needed to become operators and not actual Warframes since, of course, I'd see the later as easier and faster for a war ESPECIALLY where the Orokin were involved.

Littlerift: It was a paraphrase of want I initially got. Also it's the complete opposite from total movement to limited movement. It makes sense to me anyway. I don't know if it's offensive since most of the people with an incapacity that I know would rather me not pity them and just talk straight forward.

BornWithTeeth: You are right, That gives me hope and ideas-- although the whole being a teen is still really... siiiiiiighh.....

CriticalFumble: I just don't see the point of playing with Warframes or having a code or pretend to be mighty warriors. To me it simply isn't worth it anymore or has any point plot wise. It went too hard on *avatar meets ender's game* and the whole concept of "yay! teens will save us with magical powers!" that every average, pop culture movie/book has. It really upset me once I let it sink in. Also I'm being stubborn because I'm emotional about it. Of course I feel like my opinion is right... just like everyone else. I'm not offended, just annoyed by the simplistic posts I got on page 1 early on.