Let's Take A Page Out Of Destiny

[Airyllish]

16 hours ago, (XB1)SKWRLY said:

I see this claim of artificial difficulty so much but I really don't understand what is defined as pure difficulty, at least to you or those who perhaps you represent. Im not being rude or anything, I'm just trying to understand what you would describe as true or pure difficulty. I myself love puzzles and coordinating to achieve victory, but I suppose even that could become cheesy after a few goes.

The answer is as below:

15 hours ago, (PS4)Fstroke said:

Artificial difficulty as they say, is when something becomes more difficult not because a new or practised skill is required, but because the power gap between players and enemies becomes too great.

Basically  it's just inflating enemy stat numbers to make the player less effective.

I couldn't say it any better than the answer above, which perfectly describes artificial difficulty.

Warframe is built on a system of artificial difficulty - where the enemy infinitely scales until eventually they will simply out-scale you and you cannot continue. There is no level of skill that would allow you to surpass that point, because the game doesn't care about how good you are at playing. The enemies simply decimate you at that point no matter how good you are. Thus the difficulty is artificial because it doesn't rely on player skill, it relies solely on stats alone.

And to be fair, every game does involve artificial difficulty to an extent. It isn't that artificial difficulty is wholly bad by design. But Warframe is pretty much built on it - content does not overly challenge a player's skill past a certain point, it only challenges them to get better stats so that they can survive the scaling power gap for longer periods. This also means that players massively out-scale enemies in lower "difficulty" levels, thus making the game seem horrifically easy. Now compare this to a game like Dark Souls for instance, where artificial difficulty does certainly exist, but progression is driven far more by player skill than it is by pure stats alone. Are stats still necessary in Dark Souls? Yes. But a skilled player who has practised the game will be able to surpass certain content and certain bosses with what you could call the "bare minimum" of gear and levels, because the game challenges players to actively be better at playing it, not just be better at out-scaling enemies.

[Vaxillian]

18 hours ago, zombielore said:

It's simply impossible with the current state for warfare,  the simple fact is with abilities like Link/Blessing, Hysteria, invisibility, blade storm, radial blind, chaos, etc there will always be a way to cheese the game until it gets to the point where enemies are just 1 step below invincibility, and it's still possible to kill a non boss enemy with a trillion HP/Shields/Armour with the equinox/EV combo.

The only way to create some difficulty is to make enemies that resist/avoid our abilities like Maniacs, nullifiers, bursas, ancients, combas, sentients, etc or implement a cap on our ability casting potential, (like removing fleeting expertise, energy limits, etc. Any time DEs add anything remotely "difficult" people complain and there's no way to solve it without fundemental changes to the core game which would completely change the game.

Fact is warframe is a mob/looter rpg, much like Diablo where the core concept is your super powerful and face less power cannon fodder enemies until you hit a point where the cannon fodder does not become profitable for the time or effort invested.

Destiny while on the other hand isn't truly a mob rpg, yes they throw cheap minions at you but your never being truly swarmed like you do in warframe/Diablo (swarmed as in 10+ enemies regularly), that's why they can create difficult enemies because your character itself isn't all the powerful when put in contrast with the enemies and your character doesn't have ridiculous abilities that clears out hordes of enemies.

Exactly, so why not change it?

[(PSN)Gage_VH]

On 14/03/2016 at 3:44 PM, Vaxillian said:

How about instead of adding more enemies with higher damage we make the game actually difficult.

Let's create a real difficulty barrier, something that must be trained and used to gain skill with and then applied to the combat, not this shoot it until it dies concept.

Yeah that's how I feel. We don't need damage 3.0, we need combat 2.0.

The games formula as is can't really create genuine difficulty without it just equaling/ending up as higher health pools and higher damage dealing enemies.

[(XBOX)SKWRLY]

On March 15, 2016 at 0:37 PM, Airyllish said:

The answer is as below:

I couldn't say it any better than the answer above, which perfectly describes artificial difficulty.

Warframe is built on a system of artificial difficulty - where the enemy infinitely scales until eventually they will simply out-scale you and you cannot continue. There is no level of skill that would allow you to surpass that point, because the game doesn't care about how good you are at playing. The enemies simply decimate you at that point no matter how good you are. Thus the difficulty is artificial because it doesn't rely on player skill, it relies solely on stats alone.

And to be fair, every game does involve artificial difficulty to an extent. It isn't that artificial difficulty is wholly bad by design. But Warframe is pretty much built on it - content does not overly challenge a player's skill past a certain point, it only challenges them to get better stats so that they can survive the scaling power gap for longer periods. This also means that players massively out-scale enemies in lower "difficulty" levels, thus making the game seem horrifically easy. Now compare this to a game like Dark Souls for instance, where artificial difficulty does certainly exist, but progression is driven far more by player skill than it is by pure stats alone. Are stats still necessary in Dark Souls? Yes. But a skilled player who has practised the game will be able to surpass certain content and certain bosses with what you could call the "bare minimum" of gear and levels, because the game challenges players to actively be better at playing it, not just be better at out-scaling enemies.

Thanks for the response! This cleared up a lot for me.

[(PSN)SixFootDig]

I wish there was some more difficult missions for sure. 

[Silvus-Sol]

"Let's take a page out of Destiny"

Then crumple it up and basketball shoot it into the trash can.

[AdunSaveMe]

On 3/14/2016 at 4:10 AM, Dreadwire said:

Come on guy's

No reason to follow other game.

No reason to not put in good things just because another game has something similar.

[AdunSaveMe]

Since DE's idea of challenge is invincible enemies, silly debuffs and big numbers, I vote no to more 'challenging' content.