Saryn Rework / Why Has All Saryn Rework Feedback Been Ignored?

[Issxi]

She is by far the worst rework done so far. I've always been a Saryn main and always hated how easy it was to get kills with Miasma spamming.

After playing with her for a long while and after getting very good at using her mandatory combo, I still say the rework is bad.

 

Spore is OKAY. Press 1 to Viral is a decent first ability, but sadly with this she has devolved into a Press 1 to Win frame, as most people will call her now. People practically ignore her other abilities in favor of hammering the 1 button over and over again. The time it takes to actually pull off the combo is way too long, other frames and weapons alone down entire groups of enemies before you can even get all the procs to spread for Miasma. The combo being almost mandatory for sub-par damage is too cumbersome to be viable amongst other frames that do her job 10 times better.

Her ultimate needs to be an ultimate again. Look at Exalted Spam, World on Fire, and Rhino Stomp now. those ultimates are useful and deal some damage while Miasma requires both Spore AND Molt to be worth a damn.

 

Her survivability also needs to be improved. With a maxed out Vitality, Steel Fiber, AND Regenerative Molt she still can't survive worth a damn. Molt needs to attract ALL enemy fire as before for it to be a useful escape, and before you all come in saying OH HER ABILITIES ARE MADE FOR DEBUFFING NOW, no you are wrong. Yes she has debuff abilities, but all of her abilities shouldn't be debuffs. Spore is a debuff, Molt should be an ESCAPE, Toxic Lash needs TO BE WORTH USING, and Miasma needs to do hefty damage to stack up against the more recent reworked frames.

After getting used to her rework, learning and understanding how it works, I still think it is a trainwreck. Especially after seeing Mag's recent rework on todays Devstream, I am very upset that everyone so far has gotten a rework that makes them better at everything they were designed to do except for Saryn

Here is what I would change to make Saryn's rework worthy of recent reworks.

1. SPORE

Leave it be. Visual aid in the form of a cloud or infested-like particles spreading outwards to enemies would be nice to better gauge where the Spores are spreading to.

 

2. MOLT

Have it actually be used as a reliable escape. As of now it only attracts about 1/3 of the enemies immediately around it leaving your butt still in the open for lethal damage.

 

3. TOXIC LASH

Since every other weapon (guns and normal melee weapons) can pop SPORE the description is outdated and not true. Have Toxic Lash give Toxin damage and increased status chance to ALL HER CURRENT WEAPONS, not just melee.

 

4. MIASMA

The proc dependancy is fine, that is not the issue. The issue is that Miasma doesn't do anything WITHOUT those buffs. An ability shouldn't rely on other abilities to be useful. At base Miasma does NOTHING but stagger enemies for a split second. Have Miasma proc Corrosive on all enemies in Miasma's range or up it's damage to be on par with other reworked frames.

 

5. SARYN

Up her health for christ's sake. 2 of her abilities are used for up close encounters currently and since her escape is atrociously bad it is near impossible to get out of a sticky situation.

REDUCE HER ABILITY COST. I know Saryn wears a feathered boa and high heels, but do her abilities need to cost as much as those 2 items?

 

To all the people saying she is fine, you are wrong. Her rework put her down to PRE-REWORK-EMBER status and everyone knows it. Scott if you read this, please consider making a second pass at Saryn, she deserves at least that much. What hurts is that every other frame is getting reworks that make them better at what they do but with Saryn you just made her do completely different things, and things she is not very good at doing.

I hope you don't drop the ball with Volt. He is so popular you guys will actually read and change his rework based on feedback while Saryn is left on the shelf with Founder's gear.

 

There. I'm done.

v~v

[PsychedelicSnake]

54 minutes ago, Xylyssa said:

 

 

To all the people saying she is fine, you are wrong.

 

No discussion allowed, apparently

[Gurpgork]

I'm going to duck my head in and nitpick a little, because that's what I do.

1 hour ago, Xylyssa said:

Have Toxic Lash give Toxin damage and increased status chance to ALL HER CURRENT WEAPONS, not just melee.

That would be extremely broken. Toxic Lash is currently really strong not because of its bonus Toxin damage, but because of the guaranteed Toxin proc. Over the full duration of the Toxin proc, it deals 550% of the damage added by Toxic Lash (accounting for Saryn's passive), and this can be spread by Spores. Ever since Shadow Debt, I can stack Toxin procs for roughly 6,000 per tick using my Mios. With Saryn's passive, that ticks 11 times, adding up to 66,000 Toxin damage inflicted over the course of 10 seconds. What's better is that Spores lets me stack that damage on every enemy in the room. And did I mention that Toxin procs stack, and they're also guaranteed with Toxic Lash?

Can you imagine how absolutely bonkers that would get with the Vaykor Hek? Synoid Simulor? What about the Tonkor and its six digit crits?

I think it's perfectly fine that it's a melee only buff. Allowing it on all weapons would break Saryn.

1 hour ago, Xylyssa said:

Have Miasma proc Corrosive on all enemies in Miasma's range or up it's damage to be on par with other reworked frames.

Proccing Corrosive is something I could get behind, but believe it or not, Miasma is still the most powerful flat-damage radial nuke in the game, which needs a very high combo counter to have more raw damage than Miasma. With both procs, it deals 4200 base damage, which can be increased by both Strength and Duration mods, and with the effective damage increase from Viral procs, that totals to 8400 base damage.

1 hour ago, Xylyssa said:

To all the people saying she is fine, you are wrong. Her rework put her down to PRE-REWORK-EMBER status and everyone knows it.

This is an opinion, don't push it as indisputable fact. 

Spoiler

This was from a Corpus sortie. Level 80-100, Interception, Eximus Stronghold. I've had great success with the new Saryn. 

Saying she's better or worse than this frame or that frame is a matter of debate, but saying she's bad and everyone knows it is just blatantly wrong. Saryn is not objectively bad as you say she is. She is subjectively bad in your opinion. 

________________________

Aside from the things I specifically mentioned, I pretty much agree with your proposed changes. I think she could definitely do with getting her health back, since she's so dependent on Shadow Step and Regenerative Molt. Honestly, if I could only have one change for Saryn, that's what I'd pick.

[PikeOrShield]

I am not trying to start a fight and am not being sarcastic.  I just want to know why you think Spore is only "OKAY".

Sorry to ask, but how much do you know about Spore?  You stated it as "press 1 to viral" but that's less than half of what it does.

2 hours ago, Xylyssa said:

Spore is OKAY. Press 1 to Viral is a decent first ability, but sadly with this she has devolved into a Press 1 to Win frame, as most people will call her now. People practically ignore her other abilities in favor of hammering the 1 button over and over again. The time it takes to actually pull off the combo is way too long, other frames and weapons alone down entire groups of enemies before you can even get all the procs to spread for Miasma. The combo being almost mandatory for sub-par damage is too cumbersome to be viable amongst other frames that do her job 10 times better.

 

1. SPORE

Leave it be. Visual aid in the form of a cloud or infested-like particles spreading outwards to enemies would be nice to better gauge where the Spores are spreading to.

Everyone who knows how to play Saryn knows that Spores are very easy to spread and there is no need to "hammer the 1 button".  Just cast spore once, kill the spored target, and spores spread automatically.

Also "the time it takes to pull off the combo"; why are you using the combo?! Just use a weapon that reliably procs toxin or gas to kill the spored enemy and you already have your combo right there since spores carry toxin procs.  Ash can take down 3 targets in one second.  Saryn can nuke a 60m diameter in 1.2 seconds.  Cast spore->proc toxin or gas and kill the target->press 4-> laugh at Ash when his Bladestorm ends prematurely.

[Genitive]

Just give Molt the Snowglobe treatment. Done. She's perfect.

[Zachatoo]

She's changed to be the DoT frame she's supposed to be. As said above, it's just molt that needs better scaling. Just because you don't see the same vision DE has for Saryn doesn't mean their vision is bad. I quite enjoy the new Saryn.

[TsarKoschei]

14 hours ago, Gurpgork said:

-snip-

What build are you using on your torid?

The only change that I think she needs is for her molt, just give it like 5 seconds invulnerability to make sure it lasts long enough, and make the augment to still heals you even if its already been destroyed. Her spores are awesome and toxic lash could maybe use some range buff, miasma is fine, I only use it to stun enemies anyway.

Edited March 19, 2016 by TsarKoschei

[Gurpgork]

5 hours ago, TsarKoschei said:

What build are you using on your torid?

A very incomplete one.

Spoiler

It truly is remarkable how well this thing has done with only one forma. I'll finish it at some point, probably with Firestorm and maybe something like Primed Fast Hands.

5 hours ago, TsarKoschei said:

The only change that I think she needs is for her molt, just give it like 5 seconds invulnerability to make sure it lasts long enough, and make the augment to still heals you even if its already been destroyed. Her spores are awesome and toxic lash could maybe use some range buff, miasma is fine, I only use it to stun enemies anyway.

I pretty much agree with all of that.

Heh, range buff on Toxic Lash... My Mios can already outdistance an unmodded Miasma. A range buff would make it silly.