Saryn needs to be unnerfed

[Kharn-The-Betrayer]

That's great, i'm happy for you

I'll make a video to show you how to use her, but not now, tomorrow

I feel that you are a Saryn fan but you are disapointed, you should not, because she is a top tier frame and i'll prove it

[ThatOddDeer]

1 minute ago, Nesisphira said:

That's great, i'm happy for you

I'll make a video to show you how to use her, but not now, tomorrow

I feel that you are a Saryn fan but you are disapointed, you should not, because she is a top tier frame and i'll prove it

I'll wait on that video, but if I see slash procs at all I know where your damage is coming from.

Even with max power strength toxic lash only adds another 81% damage, which is a good amount and why I use her over excal's measly 10%. But the DoT part of that 81% is reduced so much by armor that it stops mattering, and by extension so does spore's ability to meaningfully transmit it's smaller portion of said toxin damage.

She's just as capable as excal or valkyr, even more so than them because shadow debt mods don't work on their fourth ability but comparing her to banshee or nova are insults to the true capabilities of those frames in both a solo and group setting;  not to mention spores suck in teamplay because your teammates aren't letting you regen energy with toxic lash or letting you spread toxin procs.

[Buzkyl]

1 hour ago, Nesisphira said:

On an other thread:

Just 15 min ago:

-snip-

 

She is letal, i was still able to kill them easely, but i could not approach the support capsule without losing my invisibility AND my combo counter=> one shot and / or no more dps so i was a little bit forced to leave.

 

Saryn is awesome, deadly and she have more utility in team than excalibur just for her -50% hp everywhere.

Now try that again, without the naramon cheese that can be used by every frame.

[Helch0rn]

this thread gave me a good laugh.

you keep arguing how Saryn is trash while I continue to melt crowds of high level enemys

[ThatOddDeer]

1 minute ago, Helch0rn said:

 

you keep arguing how Saryn is trash while I continue to melt crowds of high level enemys

but the point is you can melt even MORE enemies for longer with better frames without 

 

any of those AND naramon shadowstep or gas lanka.

 

The problem is that other frames can do that what saryn does but better while also bringing more to the team than useless DoTs.

It's oberon all over again but instead of being compared to every frame it's being compared to banshee or nova.

[Helch0rn]

Just now, ThatOddDeer said:

--snip-

who cares? seriously?

I am not playing the game wrong if I have fun.

and that is what games are all about: having FUN

[ThatOddDeer]

Just now, Helch0rn said:

who cares? seriously?

I am not playing the game wrong if I have fun.

and that is what games are all about: having FUN

Fun is not a factor in balancing. Take your fun out of the feedback threads

[Helch0rn]

1 minute ago, ThatOddDeer said:

Fun is not a factor in balancing. Take your fun out of the feedback threads

so Zenurik is cheese and required to make Saryn fun

but using crit weapons on ash and excal to make their ults viable is not?

IF you complain about one frame needing a certain element of the game you should also complain about all other frames who need certain elements of the game

[VampirePirate]

My only complaint is energy cost.  She needs to have a major energy cost discount as a passive or something.

[ThatOddDeer]

1 minute ago, Helch0rn said:

so Zenurik is cheese and required to make Saryn fun

but using crit weapons on ash and excal to make their ults viable is not?

IF you complain about one frame needing a certain element of the game you should also complain about all other frames who need certain elements of the game

crit weapons aren't compatible with excal as the mods don't work with his ult. Ash's blade storm scales off power strength, steel charge and combo multiplier, you can use any weapon with it equally, that promotes diversity. And either way, they both fall off super hard as they don't keep up with corrosive proc or slash proc in true endgame.

No other frame in the game mandates such specific weapons and specific builds to be remotely adequate in their capabilities and THAT is a problem a problem with saryn.

 

[Kharn-The-Betrayer]

18 minutes ago, Buzkyl said:

Now try that again, without the naramon cheese that can be used by every frame.

Every warframe have to use naramon in endgame solo, if you are not a valkyr, a loki or a trinity blessing

So be quiet please when you dont know, the problem is not the survivability, but the dps for killing the ennemys for the support modules, and for dps, Saryn is here. :)

[ThatOddDeer]

2 minutes ago, VampirePirate said:

My only complaint is energy cost.  She needs to have a major energy cost discount as a passive or something.

what about molt lasting .001 seconds,

Or how about the block portion of toxic lash being useless as well as the bugs it has likenot rewarding the energy when you kill them with melee or not spreading toxin proc via spore if they die by the melee attack with toxic lash.

What about the thematic disconnect of miasma not proccing corrosive or shredding armor at all when avalanche does it way better.

[Kharn-The-Betrayer]

24 minutes ago, ThatOddDeer said:

I'll wait on that video, but if I see slash procs at all I know where your damage is coming from.

Even with max power strength toxic lash only adds another 81% damage, which is a good amount and why I use her over excal's measly 10%. But the DoT part of that 81% is reduced so much by armor that it stops mattering, and by extension so does spore's ability to meaningfully transmit it's smaller portion of said toxin damage.

She's just as capable as excal or valkyr, even more so than them because shadow debt mods don't work on their fourth ability but comparing her to banshee or nova are insults to the true capabilities of those frames in both a solo and group setting;  not to mention spores suck in teamplay because your teammates aren't letting you regen energy with toxic lash or letting you spread toxin procs.

I'll hit only 1 target to kill the 19 others, dont worry.

[VampirePirate]

2 minutes ago, ThatOddDeer said:

what about molt lasting .001 seconds,

Or how about the block portion of toxic lash being useless as well as the bugs it has likenot rewarding the energy when you kill them with melee or not spreading toxin proc via spore if they die by the melee attack with toxic lash.

What about the thematic disconnect of miasma not proccing corrosive or shredding armor at all when avalanche does it way better.

What about it?  I can use Saryn just fine.  I just need a whole lot of energy to do it, and the cost for her powers i think is just too high.  I'm not a player that relies solely on the warframe ability powers.

[ThatOddDeer]

1 minute ago, Nesisphira said:

-snip-

and for dps, Saryn is here. :)

And while she meets the absolute minimum, the frames that get compared to her are better. And from what I've experienced slash procs are way more valuable than anything else her kit offers. I think saryn's damage is fine but she could use QoL tweaks to cement her as the melee debuffer frame that her kit suggest. I've already posted them on multiple threads, including this one.

[Helch0rn]

Just now, ThatOddDeer said:

crit weapons aren't compatible with excal as the mods don't work with his ult. Ash's blade storm scales off power strength, steel charge and combo multiplier, you can use any weapon with it equally, that promotes diversity. And either way, they both fall off super hard as they don't keep up with corrosive proc or slash proc in true endgame.

No other frame in the game mandates such specific weapons and specific builds to be remotely adequate in their capabilities and THAT is a problem a problem with saryn.

 

are you seriously implying ash and excal don't need specific builds to make them viable?

"crit weapons aren't compatible with excal as the mods don't work with his ult."

Exalted Blade is also affected by equipped melee mods including:

• Base damage (e.g., Steel Charge), elemental damage, physical damage, faction damage,channeling (e.g., Life Strike), critical damage, critical chance, status chance, attack speed (e.g.,Berserker), and range mods.

[SquireAngel]

As an avid Saryn fan, I love her rework, but I still feel that she could use some updates. Her kit feel complete, except a few things. As it sits, her 1 is fine, done here. Her 2, i feel either needs better aggro range. It is first and foremost a decoy, just like Loki's Decoy, give it the ability to aggro sponge. Other than that, cool, we're good. Her 4, I feel needs just a little longer on the CC aspect. It momentarily stuns enemies, but something to the equivalent of an impact proc. For a proper 124 combo, this leaves you ONLY enough time to escape, because we all know Saryn ain't a frontliner. It should stun for a few seconds, maybe 3-4 max. This allows you to get out, and reengage. You can now focus a target or two. With these few tweaks, her kit functions as it should feels. 

Really, the only point I would raise for a straight up rework is her 3. It's not necessarily a bad ability, it just feels out of place in her kit. It has the toxic dmg, which is nice, and some synergy with her abilities. However, while her exact build is something up for debate, everyone either calls her a debuffer or glass cannon, neither of which is real conducive to melee combat. It's not that she's supposed to be super tanky, it just feels off to give her this melee buff. For those who say she gets the dmg reduction from blocking, I raise the this point; why should you have to use an ability to block with melee, or, block with melee to use an ability? It just feels like an apology for her having to enter the melee game, when she's clearly not meant for it. 

[ivlr3vil]

14 minutes ago, ThatOddDeer said:

Fun is not a factor in balancing. Take your fun out of the feedback threads

There's no way they can properly balance this game when enemies scale infinitely. PvP and archwing is actually more balanced than the PvE section of the game.

My opinion is if Saryn can hit rotation C 40 minutes into a T4 S solo and do all missions solo on the star chart, then she's end game worthy. At best most people go up to 60 minutes in a team anyway. She's not viable for a two hour T4 S on a team, but so are many other frames and rarely will you find people wanting to go up to two hours these days.

Who knows, I rarely run out of energy with a maxed primed flow 850 energy Saryn and the Zenurik Tree. Then again, I'm not spamming abilities like crazy. If that's all you do to play the game, then you're forgetting that this game is also about shooting and dodging. Try playing Limbo or Banshee, maybe even some PvP, you have to actually learn the cover system that the game offers.

 

Edited March 21, 2016 by ivlr3vil

[ThatOddDeer]

 

1 minute ago, Helch0rn said:

are you seriously implying ash and excal don't need specific builds to make them viable?

"crit weapons aren't compatible with excal as the mods don't work with his ult."

Exalted Blade is also affected by equipped melee mods including:

• Base damage (e.g., Steel Charge), elemental damage, physical damage, faction damage,channeling (e.g., Life Strike), critical damage, critical chance, status chance, attack speed (e.g.,Berserker), and range mods.

but the mods that make melee endgame capable, body count, blood rush and weeping wounds, explicitly do NOT work. please learn before you quote useless data me.

[SquireAngel]

1 minute ago, ThatOddDeer said:

 

but the mods that make melee endgame capable, body count, blood rush and weeping wounds, explicitly do NOT work. please learn before you quote useless data me.

ACTUALLY, Body count does work with Slashdash. Putting that out there. Also, there;s true steel and organ shatter still lad. They've been here for ages, and they DO apply to his EB. 

[Helch0rn]

1 minute ago, ThatOddDeer said:

 

but the mods that make melee endgame capable, body count, blood rush and weeping wounds, explicitly do NOT work. please learn before you quote useless data me.

and since when are they explicitly required?

I have never seen anyone requiring them for a mission.

I did fine without them and I will continue to do so

[ThatOddDeer]

2 minutes ago, ivlr3vil said:

 

"My opinion is if Saryn can hit rotation C 40 minutes into a T4 S solo and do all missions solo on the star chart, then she's end game worthy."

While entitled to your opinion, you're wrong about 40 minutes being endgame. That's joke worthy

" Zenurik Tree" 

That's a crutch to make up for her massive weakeness

" Try playing Limbo or Banshee, maybe even some PvP, you have to actually learn the cover system that the game offers."

My fully charged celestia syandana says hello. PvP is a joke right now with people running out the clock because no one can catch other people due to endless parkour spam. I played a lot of banshee before saryn's rework and I can solidly say she is easily 5x better than saryn in every way.

 

 

[ThatOddDeer]

2 minutes ago, SquireAngel said:

ACTUALLY, Body count does work with Slashdash. Putting that out there. Also, there;s true steel and organ shatter still lad. They've been here for ages, and they DO apply to his EB. 

But the mods that let you go past 100 minutes reliably without some sort of armor shred, don't. That's the problem

Edited March 21, 2016 by ThatOddDeer

[Buzkyl]

10 minutes ago, Nesisphira said:

Every warframe have to use naramon in endgame solo, if you are not a valkyr, a loki or a trinity blessing

So be quiet please when you dont know, the problem is not the survivability, but the dps for killing the ennemys for the support modules, and for dps, Saryn is here. :)

Tell me how is endgame a mode that does not end. That's highly contradictory. Yes level 400 is endgame.

 

[SquireAngel]

1 minute ago, ThatOddDeer said:

But the mods that let you go past 100 minutes reliably without some sort of armor shred, don't. That's the problem

Mildly valid, BUTT and boy is it a big one, that honkytonk badakadunk~ Armor scaling is being changed in damage 3.0, so only valid for a while longer. Scotty boy has Saryn remade with this in mind. Is it a buttpain that it doesn't scale according to current scaling without good weps? Yus. Would it be worth DE reworking her entire kit twice, once to fit current scaling, and then once again when scaling changed? That's a moot point, as DE has executive power, and they said lolno.