Prime Vault

[Tyranem]

5 minutes ago, jsnforce said:

I think it's kinda funny how many folks believe that the whole vaulting old primes thing is anything other than a money grab. 

It's called "Artificial Scarcity"

 

 

What part makes it a money grab after vaulting it? Is it that they expect people to buy plat to pay for the prime set? Because PA sure as hell doesn't last forever.

[(PSN)A7XfoREVer_R_I_P]

Is loki vaulted right now? Also i agree that the price of loki will skyrocket i mean he is a very usefull warframe. If he Isn't vaulted yet then anyone know when forsure? On console that is.

Edited March 29, 2016 by (PS4)A7XfoREVer_R_I_P

[Tyranem]

19 hours ago, (PS4)A7XfoREVer_R_I_P said:

Is loki vaulted right now? Also i agree that the price of loki will skyrocket i mean he is a very usefull warframe. If he Isn't vaulted yet then anyone know when forsure? On console that is.

U19 I believe. I don't think there's a release date yet on PC or Console. But it's gonna be soon.

[jsnforce]

On 3/29/2016 at 10:49 PM, Tyranem said:

What part makes it a money grab after vaulting it? Is it that they expect people to buy plat to pay for the prime set? Because PA sure as hell doesn't last forever.

When you limit a resource people want, you increase it's value. OPEC does this all the time with oil. When oil is plentiful, prices go down, so they cap production and prices shoot back up. DE capped those prime items so that you're either paying excessive amounts of platinum (which someone bought from DE) to buy from players or you're paying $60 directly to DE for a trimmed down Prime Access pack (no bonus plat, no boosters, no extras).

DE hypes a prime and sells it for, honestly, an excessive amount in PA packs. Players will pay a lot of plat to buy it from trade because it's new. As farmed parts flood the market, prices lower. DE kills PA, which is probably not selling well at that point anyway. Just when that Prime is losing it's luster, BLAM, vaulted. Now each component is insanely high because there's no other way to get it. Months later, those components are unavailable entirely and since Warframe's playerbase is comprised of obsessive collector types, we get twitchy. Then DE reveals the unvaulting: $60 for a gutted PA pack for a limited time. 

It's a manipulation that freakin works. 

 

But, it's kinda how games operate. 

[Yiix]

I honestly don't think the prime vault is a bad idea - but what they could've done is make it so every month, a new prime set is released into the void, and every month it's rotated. Just a suggestion.

 

[Medereyes]

On 4/3/2016 at 11:44 PM, jsnforce said:

When you limit a resource people want, you increase it's value. OPEC does this all the time with oil. When oil is plentiful, prices go down, so they cap production and prices shoot back up. DE capped those prime items so that you're either paying excessive amounts of platinum (which someone bought from DE) to buy from players or you're paying $60 directly to DE for a trimmed down Prime Access pack (no bonus plat, no boosters, no extras).

DE hypes a prime and sells it for, honestly, an excessive amount in PA packs. Players will pay a lot of plat to buy it from trade because it's new. As farmed parts flood the market, prices lower. DE kills PA, which is probably not selling well at that point anyway. Just when that Prime is losing it's luster, BLAM, vaulted. Now each component is insanely high because there's no other way to get it. Months later, those components are unavailable entirely and since Warframe's playerbase is comprised of obsessive collector types, we get twitchy. Then DE reveals the unvaulting: $60 for a gutted PA pack for a limited time. 

It's a manipulation that freakin works. 

 

But, it's kinda how games operate. 

I really hope lots of forum-goers read this and become enlightened. However I would like to add to your last statement. Not all games operate under the cloak of deception for profit.

It is how some games operate, yes. Like the oil companies, the developers of warframe choose to create this artificial scarcity to generate profit. I don't think it's paying off as well as they thought because player retention is horrible. In every clan all over warframe, there is proof of this. Oil companies don't have to worry about it. Most human's can't live day to day without oil so their retention is nearly 100%. Which brings me to my second point: while DE chose this method to generate profit, it is not the only method for game developers to choose from. Look at many of the MOBA FTP games like DOTA 2 and other games like Path of Exile. They don't create artificial scarcity for profit and they are immensely more successful compared to warframe. I constantly hear how players of those games (both PVE and PVP types) feel like they *want* to support those games.

Warframe is still in beta so there's always the possibility of the system being reworked to benefit the player and the developer alike. I have faith they still care about their game's retention.

 

Edited April 25, 2016 by Medereyes
spelling

[Sonos]

On 3/27/2016 at 5:10 PM, (PS4)Akuma_Asura_ said:

Yes

 

[Jerakl]

On 3/27/2016 at 2:13 PM, Sorrow-San said:

It's been based off of release date so far, and currently, Loki is the oldest Prime frame not in the vault. (Im pretty sure)

On that note, it's supposedly DE's excuse that the "Tower drop tables are too cluttered" so instead of balanceing drops out among all Tower keys & mission types.... Or actually do somthing with Orokin derelict missions. They just remove one update(s) worth of prime things and input a new set of them.

 

It's a good way for them to make money. For the most part the cost of vaulted primes in plat is stupendous and farming that much plat would take forever, so it sells plat if they vault.

 

Even though they have the derelict missions sitting around being literally useless outside of like NovaP sys and the TrinP part.

[SilverMarketer]

From the interviews and Devstreams I have seen, the developers of this game seem to enjoy playing and developing the game alot so I hope that one day after Warframe becomes more successful they would not need to use this sort of tactic as I find it dirty and rather tasteless.

 

[Marvelous_A]

You know Loki used to cost only 40P right? Now its price rise to 80-120P because people think it's the next prime to be vaulted.

[Rounpositron]

I crafted and maxed Bo P. Man,I was really lucky.

[jsnforce]

On 4/25/2016 at 10:33 AM, Medereyes said:

I really hope lots of forum-goers read this and become enlightened. However I would like to add to your last statement. Not all games operate under the cloak of deception for profit.

It is how some games operate, yes. Like the oil companies, the developers of warframe choose to create this artificial scarcity to generate profit. I don't think it's paying off as well as they thought because player retention is horrible. In every clan all over warframe, there is proof of this. Oil companies don't have to worry about it. Most human's can't live day to day without oil so their retention is nearly 100%. Which brings me to my second point: while DE chose this method to generate profit, it is not the only method for game developers to choose from. Look at many of the MOBA FTP games like DOTA 2 and other games like Path of Exile. They don't create artificial scarcity for profit and they are immensely more successful compared to warframe. I constantly hear how players of those games (both PVE and PVP types) feel like they *want* to support those games.

Warframe is still in beta so there's always the possibility of the system being reworked to benefit the player and the developer alike. I have faith they still care about their game's retention.

 

You're right, of course. I was feeling a bit salty at the point I wrote that, so perhaps I came off a bit hateful. Warframe doesn't have the WORST money making system out there. That'd go to all those Cryptic games; PWE has them selling gamble-boxes with spins costing a dollar apiece -mostly for cosmetic crap.

Still, I think player retention is crap because the the only reason to play it is to gain more weapons and frames. The only thing to do with those weapons and frames is farm for different weapons and frames. Always a shiny carrot, but no meat.

 

 

 

[Yual]

I want my Targis NAOW

 

[TheDudeCZ]

On 26. 3. 2016 at 11:31 PM, Etherdrop said:

That's pretty intense. So how do things get unvaulted? I mean I know Frost was available for a short time. How exactly does that work?

I think that was just to reduce inflation. Sets were being sold for 800+ plat.

[TheBright888]

On 3/29/2016 at 5:43 AM, jsnforce said:

I think it's kinda funny how many folks believe that the whole vaulting old primes thing is anything other than a money grab. 

It's called "Artificial Scarcity"

At least DE allows for a market.

EA would let you buy if from the cash store. Player trading? Nope.

Also DE literally gives you 5-500p per day for free through sorties alone. All you have to know is how to trade. Do a raid and that turns into 10-700.

And with almost nothing being exclusive to paying players, they have to make money somehow.

Edited May 4, 2016 by TheBright888

[jsnforce]

7 hours ago, TheBright888 said:

At least DE allows for a market.

EA would let you buy if from the cash store. Player trading? Nope.

Also DE literally gives you 5-500p per day for free through sorties alone. All you have to know is how to trade. Do a raid and that turns into 10-700.

And with almost nothing being exclusive to paying players, they have to make money somehow.

I'm not actively calling out DE for the practice, rather, I'm rolling my eyes at players who think it's for any other reason. Of course DE isn't going to come out and explain how they're manipulating supply/demand -that'd make them look greedy (which I'm not accusing them of that), but the truth of the matter is that their motivation is purely monetary.

Sometimes I get a bit salty about certain other things in the game, and my mood may have carried into the post, but that was unintended. I love Warframe and support DE with more money than I have ever spent on a single game, ever. 

[Bluejay235]

Yes this retirement process confuses me. Primes seems the next progression step from normal frames and the whole point of this game is to farm mats to make stuff.

I would like to think this is not just a jaded money grab but I can't deny that it is possible that this is the motivation. I have already started buying plat (if you are going to play a game like this I think its only fair to financially contribute to it) but I think I will hold off on more until the plans for this are more clear. I don't mind paying for parts of the game, but if the best frames are only going to be purchasable then the game has literally no point to it.

[TheBright888]

2 hours ago, jsnforce said:

I'm not actively calling out DE for the practice, rather, I'm rolling my eyes at players who think it's for any other reason. Of course DE isn't going to come out and explain how they're manipulating supply/demand -that'd make them look greedy (which I'm not accusing them of that), but the truth of the matter is that their motivation is purely monetary.

Sometimes I get a bit salty about certain other things in the game, and my mood may have carried into the post, but that was unintended. I love Warframe and support DE with more money than I have ever spent on a single game, ever. 

I can see where you are coming from.

I personally believe the official story in this case. They are revamping the star chart and drop tables and they dont want to waste time into implementing new slots into an outdated drop table. The only real way to tell would be to see the actual files in the database and how they are structured and how hard it would be to insert new drops or to change drops on certain rotations.

Yes they could spend time on an outdated drop table, but personally I would not do that either. And if it indirectly helps my plat sales not to, why would I?

I'm sure DE makes a lot of money, especially since the game is hosted 90% p2p and does not require a lot of server infrastructure. But in turn they are extremely fair to the players and give us literally the ability to make tens of thousands of plat by simply farming, trading or speculating.

I mean every time a frame gets vaulted, people make millions of plat from prices going up. Thats the other side of the coin. Just get yourself a few loki sets, and get on the winning side.

Edited May 5, 2016 by TheBright888

[(PSN)joshw1400]

On 5/4/2016 at 6:09 AM, TheDudeCZ said:

I think that was just to reduce inflation. Sets were being sold for 800+ plat.

DE said that frames in prime vaults eventually come out for a limited time. That was Frost's time so Mag should come soon unless Starchart 3.0 comes soon.

[(PSN)skullblits69]

Should add Void vault raids. 4player, everybody needs a new kind of key.

You get a random Vaulted part.  Make it difficult.  Be cool

[(PSN)KrakenUnchained]

10 hours ago, TheBright888 said:

I can see where you are coming from.

I personally believe the official story in this case. They are revamping the star chart and drop tables and they dont want to waste time into implementing new slots into an outdated drop table. The only real way to tell would be to see the actual files in the database and how they are structured and how hard it would be to insert new drops or to change drops on certain rotations.

Yes they could spend time on an outdated drop table, but personally I would not do that either. And if it indirectly helps my plat sales not to, why would I?

I'm sure DE makes a lot of money, especially since the game is hosted 90% p2p and does not require a lot of server infrastructure. But in turn they are extremely fair to the players and give us literally the ability to make tens of thousands of plat by simply farming, trading or speculating.

I mean every time a frame gets vaulted, people make millions of plat from prices going up. Thats the other side of the coin. Just get yourself a few loki sets, and get on the winning side.

Sorry but i dont believe the official story, otherwise we ll not get all that orokin cells and cores in drop tables anymore, not talking about the Orokin Derelict drop table based on T1 & T2 keys, random cores and just a couple of prime parts. Theres a lot of free space in drop table, just the way they running gets so more profit

[TheBright888]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)KrakenUnchained said:

Sorry but i dont believe the official story, otherwise we ll not get all that orokin cells and cores in drop tables anymore, not talking about the Orokin Derelict drop table based on T1 & T2 keys, random cores and just a couple of prime parts. Theres a lot of free space in drop table, just the way they running gets so more profit

I don't blame you. Its a world full of lies.

So far DE has done a great job balancing their own interests with those of the players, which is probably why so many players like the game.

[(PSN)KrakenUnchained]

Just now, TheBright888 said:

I don't blame you. Its a world full of lies.

So far DE has done a great job balancing their own interests with those of the players, which is probably why so many players like the game.

I remember when people complained about Forma BP @20w of T3 def, after few weeks DE lowered the chance of Forma BP but on the other hand introduced Bo Pr BP and Ember Helmet BP in the same rotation flooding even more that rotation with pure garbage. People likes the variety, and thats something DE seems didnt get yet

[Gouldian]

On ‎27‎/‎03‎/‎2016 at 9:09 AM, Tyranem said:

Yeah, I never really expected DE to keep the vaulting/unvaulting system. Since we're beta they just wanted to rush us through stuff to see if it worked. They aren't really concerned with us grinding it out. I think this is why prime access exists. I highly doubt in the finished game that there's going to be a vault where new players can't get old gear. The devs are smart, we're just impatient mostly :/

This game, Warframe will always be in Beta.

[Dampfhammer]

i think vaulting old primes was a realy bad decision

i as an old player swim in plat now,  because of selling vaulted old prime stuff; so i have no reason to buy plat at all, except for supporting de. new players wont buy plat to get vaulted prime stuff from other players, they will just leave the game and feel treated unfair

i think this will hurt the playerbase if they lock out new players from the vaulted stuff; we are not talking about some gimmicks like some dex furis or something; we are talking about realy good endgame stuff with the prime items, and they need to stay accessible for new players. either sell them in the store by yourselfe de, maybe 500-1000 plat for a frame or something .. or put them on some new missions, whatever, they need to be somehow availible without trading