The last 3 hours of my life as saryn prime

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

Ok. From start to finish, it was quite disheartning, please hear me out as I tell my story that is this giant wall of text. It has just been my experience really trying to work with Saryn post rework, that she is weaker when it comes to surviving long enough to do the damage she is supposed to (doing the whole set up without becoming flustered by a constant rush of enemies can be frustrating) , I refuse to say that she was out right nerfed, and if anyone has a better build for me or suggestions, that would help.

Baro visited the console relays recently with some interesting things, one of those a mod called vermilion storm, that mod will hold a prominent part in this story later. In order to purchase everything I needed, I would have to get more prime parts for ducats. Chat trade was abismal, no one wanted to sell extra prime pieces, and in the end, my better judgment told me to just farm. And who better to take then my old favorite survival frame? Sure she hasn't been performing up to the old standards, but change is not always bad. So I picked a t2 survival for void junk. Normally things get a little more challenging at around 40 mins in a void non endless, especially if I'm some regular warframe and not a prime getting tons of energy from death orbs. So me barely not being able to survive up to 45-50 minutes, with the enemy level only somewhere about 50-60 when it was all said and done, may have been understandable if I hadn't been doing it worth Saryn before, maybe... I started out trying to tank but then changed tactics to flopping around all over the map, rolling to mitigate damage, aim gliding, the works. Moving with a sense of urgency.

My loadout: quanta vandal for cube explosions to spread spores (would usually have sechura penta, but solo would run the risk of murder killing myself, say no to the tonkor) Mara Detron for silliness, and Tonbo, all corrosive And fire. I tried physique, instead of rejuvenation, but neither really cut it. The highest I could get my health was 1076hp, and armor should have been fine at the normal 225 but I took it up to 326. Armor should have been fine. On no other warframe do I ever worry about armor, ever. Ever. Its not an important mechanic to me, but Saryn might as well have 15 armor for all the good 225 does her, health still just shreds away. Viazarin, sancti weapons, health pads, lifestrike. One of these on a regular warframe is good enough. On saryn, you need all of them.

Mods: I started with vitality/regenerative molt/primed flow/rage/primed continuity/stretch/natural talent/constution, then put in over extended to replace stretch, amored agility to replace constitution, vigor to replace over extended. Maybe you might say my problem was my loadout, but I have run nekros with the same weapons and been totally fine, even with 3 abilities that leave you standing still (a problem in itself), i have not figured out the mods. After 30 minutes, the mission turned into me running around never having enough health or energy, desperately trying to survive. Sounds like fun right? Yay. 

The good: 1) spores give energy back. 2)toxic lash lasts a lot longer.

The bad: 1). I never used Saryns number 4 to instantly erase things off the map, she was my tank. I comfortably casted my powers when I wanted to and use her 4 to stun enemies to escape from difficult situations. But now spamming is the only way to survive, how Ember is except worse, way worse.

2).losing something like 200 hp, and molt still being super squishy means your overall survivability on the map decreases, alot. With the way Saryn chugs energy, I can't even reliably use miasma to get out of those sticky situations, volt has 800 energy because it's fun. Saryn has 800 energy because it's a base requirment, she definitely should get more. Building for effiency might help (looks like I need to get that fleeting expertise mod)...but...

3). De says "Saryn is a melee based caster frame". Players say "Saryn is a tank!" "Saryn is an aoe nuker frame!" DE slams their fist on the table "she is a melee based caster frame and that is final!".

The emphasis on spores and toxic lash is unreal. Basically in order to survive highly concentrated enemy bullets full of hatred, you have to spam these in combination with molt and hope you have enough left over for one miasma. Hitting enemies with spores can give more energy, but sometimes the spores won't pop while you are trying to hit them on the enemy (possible bug or small hitbox) and trying to keep spores up, survive long enough to melee an enemy with spores (melee is in such a bad spot right now), keeping toxic lash running and paying attention to your energy and health to make sure your aren't running out is quite a difficult task. There are too many timers, too many small numbers.

So, I got my vermilion storm, and my life changed. 4 riders is a major change from malicious raptor, way better. But vermilion storm is several times better than four riders. And I'm coping, even excelling at doing awesome melee things, because I have always liked using claws with Saryn. I'm on Saturn with a valkyr and 30 minutes in things are getting desperate. I died twice trying to revive the valkyr who was a friend of mine who was actually fairly new and would not have been able to survive without hysteria. In the midst of a combo, and accidently pushed the abort button. 3 things 1) my old Saryn would not have had these problems. Point.blank.period. 2) if spores healed instead of giving energy, that would help, why does Valkyr get innate life strike And invulnerability?

.3) why, oh god why are you asking if I want to abort? I know full and well wether or not I want to abort and can click the button myself.

Saryn is squishy now, but why? I have her armor at 300, and health at 1000, it should be ok. In my opinion its because she doesn't have a cc pause button (she does, as miasma, but it is way to costly most of the time). Poison is also the one primary element that doesn't stun lock enemies (like ice fire and electric). Its trade off is damage for utility. Sarin is the new glass canon. At this point I feel safer running Ember. But a glass canon can not also be a melee frame. So how do you make her less glass? Paper would be acceptable.

 

[Genitive]

Try putting some power strength mods (I use Intensify and Transient Fortitude), they help. Armored  Agility and Natural Talent are not necessary, especially the latter one. And put that Stretch back. You might also want to use the Exilus slot for either a drift mod (they drop on the Moon) or Handspring (which I strongly recommend).

As for damage, did you try to spread Spores at all? There is no need to spam them as long as you can pop them with your weapons. It's easier at higher levels as enemies don't die so quickly. Or you can try putting Spores on Molt and the enemies will pop them for you. By then you should have viral procs all around you, which will cut enemy health in half. And Miasma deals more damage to enemies with toxin or viral proc on them.

Toxic Lash restores energy if you pop Spores with it, but I find Rage/Regenerative Molt combo more comfortable. And I don't have to use Life Strike.

I don't have really many problems with Saryn, but I can relate to the squishiness at higher levels; Molt just dies too quickly. It needs a Snowglobe treatment and maybe a small stun when it explodes. But just this invincibility period would do wonders for me. Anyway, Molt was buffed in a recent update, so maybe eventually it will receive it.

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

3 minutes ago, Genitive said:

Try putting some power strength mods (I use Intensify and Transient Fortitude), they help. Armored  Agility and Natural Talent are not necessary, especially the latter one. And put that Stretch back. You might also want to use the Exilus slot for either a drift mod (they drop on the Moon) or Handspring (which I strongly recommend).

As for damage, did you try to spread Spores at all? There is no need to spam them as long as you can pop them with your weapons. It's easier at higher levels as enemies don't die so quickly. Or you can try putting Spores on Molt and the enemies will pop them for you. By then you should have viral procs all around you, which will cut enemy health in half. And Miasma deals more damage to enemies with toxin or viral proc on them.

Toxic Lash restores energy if you pop Spores with it, but I find Rage/Regenerative Molt combo more comfortable. And I don't have to use Life Strike.

I don't have really many problems with Saryn, but I can relate to the squishiness at higher levels; Molt just dies too quickly. It needs a Snowglobe treatment and maybe a small stun when it explodes. But just this invincibility period would do wonders for me. Anyway, Molt was buffed in a recent update, so maybe eventually it will receive it.

I will try to mod for strength. The problem with spores for me was the I could not keep it up, the enemies who had it would die to quickly (i was probably too focused on toxic lash trying to get energy, the claws were murder killing :p .) the notion that I should keep my enemies alive instead of killing them as fast as possible is what makes the learning curve so steep I think. I experienced inconsistent results for how long it would stay active. But can you use a Saryn without using some sort of health regeneration? That is the question. Solely relying on health orbs with no nekros or trin. 

[Genitive]

You can try using Ignis to pop spores, it works quite well and you don't have to aim that much. Spores spread like crazy if you do it right. Toxic Lash also gets the job done, but it's easier with some ranged weapons.

The thing is Saryn requires large groups of enemies to be effective and the current Molt makes it harder, as it dies too quickly. I really don't know why Molt hasn't been buffed to the Snowglobe level yet. Many other skills allow much more damage mitigation. Look at Hall of Mirrors - clones are duration based and you can stand still at high level missions and nothing can hit you.

There is also the matter of broken scaling. After a certain point enemies get simply to tough. Hopefully the issue will be resolved with scaling rebalancing. The game needs it.

 

4 minutes ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

But can you use a Saryn without using some sort of health regeneration? That is the question.

No, but that can be said about every other frame.

[PikeOrShield]

You need more range and power strength for your spores.  You can sacrifice a bit of duration too.  The new Saryn relies on Spores to do 1/3-3/4 of her killing depending on how you built her and what weapons you are using.  The idea is to inflict toxin procs onto enemies and have spores carry them to other enemies. I would recommend switching your primary or secondary for a status weapon modded for gas (Lanka, Ignis, Strun Wraith, V Marelock, Torid, etc.).  Spores carry toxin procs inflicted on enemies to all other enemies in range when they bursts; a gas proc deals toxin procs in a 5m radius AOE and also pops all the spores on the target.

Drop Natural Talent and Armored Agility.  Saryn's cast time is not abysmal like Nekros' and a bit of armor is not as good as the benefits of range or strength on Saryn.  Also consider dropping Primed Flow for an efficiency mod; Flow is only good if you Normaly have access to a ton of energy and since you are having energy problems an efficiency mod will be much better (adding Flow is like building a refrigerator for a starving family and hoping it will keep them fed).

If your going melee only, I would recommend Naramon for Shadowstep.  It's about the only thing that keeps me going in T4S.

Do NOT spam Miasma.  The damage does NOT stack.  It just resets the tic timer on enemies already under the effects of Miasma.   Example:

Spoiler

Let's say your Miasma does 500 damage per sec and lasts for 4 seconds. The first second deals 2 tics and the rest deal 1.  Your total damage is 2500.  If you cast Miasma again one second after the first cast, the Miasma timers on the enemies in range reset instead of stack.  Your total damage would be 3500 instead of 5000.

 

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

adding Flow is like building a refrigerator for a starving family and hoping it will keep them fed

/\ this/\ 

That statement was the highlight of the whole day. Thank you for the awesome feedback guys

 

[Genitive]

9 minutes ago, PikeOrShield said:

Do NOT spam Miasma.  The damage does NOT stack.  It just resets the tic timer on enemies already under the effects of Miasma.

Unless you want a hardcore CC fest. I once had a Miasma spamming marathon to save that final console in a sortie. One minute is my personal record. And it worked!

[PikeOrShield]

48 minutes ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

I will try to mod for strength. The problem with spores for me was the I could not keep it up, the enemies who had it would die to quickly (i was probably too focused on toxic lash trying to get energy, the claws were murder killing :p .) the notion that I should keep my enemies alive instead of killing them as fast as possible is what makes the learning curve so steep I think. I experienced inconsistent results for how long it would stay active. But can you use a Saryn without using some sort of health regeneration? That is the question. Solely relying on health orbs with no nekros or trin. 

Modding for range will help you keep spores up.  I go for at least +90% range on all my Saryn builds.  Don't worry so much about the DOT stuff and focus on normal combat.  The idea is to fight normally while spores kill enemies further away.  There is no reason to keep enemies alive, in fact, your incentive for killing them is to increase the DOT on other enemies by popping spores.  You don't even have to aim for spores if you mod for gas or use Toxic Lash (straight up killing guys without popping spores streams them at reduced range.  It seems to be half).  I constantly use Regenerative Molt/Rage because, with some power strength and efficiency, you get more health and energy than you had before.

 

9 minutes ago, Genitive said:

Unless you want a hardcore CC fest. I once had a Miasma spamming marathon to save that final console in a sortie. One minute is my personal record. And it worked!

^Yes.  Totally agree.  I only pulled it off for 30 seconds and needed energy restores, but it kept the bullet sponges at bay while my teammates revived eachother.

Edited March 27, 2016 by PikeOrShield

[djternan]

Give this one a try:

 

Primed Flow, Quick Thinking, Primed Continuity, Regenerative Molt, R3 Fleeting Expertise, Streamline, Transient Fortitude, and Overextended.  Run Power Drift in the Exilus slot.  You should have 88% duration, 170% efficiency, 190% range, and 110% power strength.  She has a massive energy pool and Quick Thinking will make use of it in emergencies.  You have enough efficiency to spam like crazy too.  

 

I highly recommend using either Zenurik to keep that energy pool topped off or Naramon for quick escapes.

 

I've noticed that her abilities aren't all that rewarding even when building for damage because of massive energy drains.  This build let's you keep spores up and spam Miasma for that little bit of CC.  The biggest weakness I found was the lack of a vitality mod but you could swap Regenerative Molt for that if you have another way of healing.

 

Last thing, a gas/status Ignis is great.  It pops spores with ease and is surprisingly powerful against groups because of the status proc.  It also gives you that toxin for more damage with Miasma.

[DiosGX]

RE: the Ignis thing:

Use Sinister Reach on said Ignis if your intention is a Spore tool.

[(PSN)DanteVincent]

Sorry I didn't read through all of it but your build is terrible. 

 

New Saryn doesn't play like old one, like, at all.

That's how you build a proper nuker saryn post rework: Max Str, max range, some duration just so it becomes positive, no efficiency, reg molt and primed flow;

That's the weapons you use: Gas Ignis with sinister reach, firestorm and primed ammo mutation / gas embolist with red veil augment and ruinous extension.

And finally that's how you play it: Cast spore, spray some fire, watch everything dying.

I roll 2 complete energize sets so I can even afford to cast the ridiculously expensive miasma, since basically every orb gives me 125 energy.

[ClinkzEastwood]

I only need vitality and regen molt for survivality.

Anything above that is a waste.

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

11 hours ago, (PS4)DanteVincent said:

Sorry I didn't read through all of it but your build is terrible. 

 

New Saryn doesn't play like old one, like, at all.

That's how you build a proper nuker saryn post rework: Max Str, max range, some duration just so it becomes positive, no efficiency, reg molt and primed flow;

That's the weapons you use: Gas Ignis with sinister reach, firestorm and primed ammo mutation / gas embolist with red veil augment and ruinous extension.

And finally that's how you play it: Cast spore, spray some fire, watch everything dying.

I roll 2 complete energize sets so I can even afford to cast the ridiculously expensive miasma, since basically every orb gives me 125 energy.

Yeah, the old Saryn allowed to run that terrible build and be blissfully unaware. Sounds like good info, thanks

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

On 3/28/2016 at 1:26 AM, ClinkzEastwood said:

I only need vitality and regen molt for survivality.

Anything above that is a waste.

Ok, I need a little help then. I don't know what the problem is, but Saryn is making me feel as if nekros is downright tanky. I made the changes to my mods, still working on that, but I went to Uranus yesterday. I have been soloing just to see what my builds can do. I was struggling to survive after 20 mins, my health always got shredded down by about 300-500 anytime I ran into a group of enemies, this doen not take into account my gameplay, I have no video to show (and I am sorry if it sounds like whining, it's just, the last time I had to play this way was when I was running 15 armor regular volt). I farm uranus with nekros a lot, for my dojo. He has fear, so he can get enemies off his back, but I don't have to spam fear, and if I do cast it, it's not till about 30 or 40 when it's necessary....I am always constantly healing though with equilibrium and despoil, so... How do I get that constant healing effect on Saryn? Because I was pretty sure 225 armor meant a little more, but apparently it doesnt. 

[ClinkzEastwood]

19 minutes ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

Ok, I need a little help then. I don't know what the problem is, but Saryn is making me feel as if nekros is downright tanky. I made the changes to my mods, still working on that, but I went to Uranus yesterday. I have been soloing just to see what my builds can do. I was struggling to survive after 20 mins, my health always got shredded down by about 300-500 anytime I ran into a group of enemies, this doen not take into account my gameplay, I have no video to show (and I am sorry if it sounds like whining, it's just, the last time I had to play this way was when I was running 15 armor regular volt). I farm uranus with nekros a lot, for my dojo. He has fear, so he can get enemies off his back, but I don't have to spam fear, and if I do cast it, it's not till about 30 or 40 when it's necessary....I am always constantly healing though with equilibrium and despoil, so... How do I get that constant healing effect on Saryn? Because I was pretty sure 225 armor meant a little more, but apparently it doesnt. 

Regen molt.

[PikeOrShield]

9 minutes ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

Ok, I need a little help then. I don't know what the problem is, but Saryn is making me feel as if nekros is downright tanky. I made the changes to my mods, still working on that, but I went to Uranus yesterday. I have been soloing just to see what my builds can do. I was struggling to survive after 20 mins, my health always got shredded down by about 300-500 anytime I ran into a group of enemies, this doen not take into account my gameplay, I have no video to show (and I am sorry if it sounds like whining, it's just, the last time I had to play this way was when I was running 15 armor regular volt). I farm uranus with nekros a lot, for my dojo. He has fear, so he can get enemies off his back, but I don't have to spam fear, and if I do cast it, it's not till about 30 or 40 when it's necessary....I am always constantly healing though with equilibrium and despoil, so... How do I get that constant healing effect on Saryn? Because I was pretty sure 225 armor meant a little more, but apparently it doesnt. 

Mind sharing your full Saryn build?  What weapons are you using and what is your playstyle (melee, midrange, long range, etc.)?

In high level content, I almost always have Regenerative Molt running along with Rage.  This keeps energy and health nearly topped-off if you have enough power strength to boost your healing factor and efficiency to negate the cost of Molt.  Keep in mind that the healing stops in these 2 cases: after 10 seconds regardless of your duration; if your molt is destroyed before the 10 second mark.

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

8 minutes ago, PikeOrShield said:

Mind sharing your full Saryn build?  What weapons are you using and what is your playstyle (melee, midrange, long range, etc.)?

In high level content, I almost always have Regenerative Molt running along with Rage.  This keeps energy and health nearly topped-off if you have enough power strength to boost your healing factor and efficiency to negate the cost of Molt.  Keep in mind that the healing stops in these 2 cases: after 10 seconds regardless of your duration; if your molt is destroyed before the 10 second mark.

It'll be a bit on my build, need to log on later, I do like running in using melee and then I'll switch to a primary around the time that becomes a really bad idea

[ZodiacShinryu]

The secret to Saryn is that Spores transfer toxin procs and that damage from the spore explosion is some percentage of the initial toxin proc enhanced by strength. With range and strength you can use any number of weapons that will get you stable toxin procs and you can erase maps on any faction with just Spores.  Some people like dual ichors with toxin crit builds for those red crit procs dealing insane damage through spores.  Ive played around with Orthros Maiming Strike for the giggles of red crit spinning doom trains. I like my vectis prime too so a gas build has done wonders so any weapon that can put out pretty big numbers can work. Ive heard some scary exciting stories about red crit lankas too.

[viamont]

ok....not gona read all that...but if you cant survive T2 with saryn you are doing something wrong...now for the quick look i took to your loadout you are doing a few things wrong...my personal mod its:

Rejuvenation  /  Cunning drift

Primed continuity, constitution, fleeting expertice (40%),  streamline

Trancient fortitude, stretch, vitality, Regenerative molt

Weapons its a personal matter but in order to get the best of my spores i always carry my Mios with primed reach, that maximizes the spore spreading specially with toxic lash.

saryn doesnt need to focus on being tanky at all, she just needs a decent balance betwen her stats but mostly that you are active with her, as a 40% saryn main user i can tell you shes heavily underestimated and i have proven time and time again on ALL missions except sorties shes a force to be feared

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

34 minutes ago, viamont said:

ok....not gona read all that...but if you cant survive T2 with saryn you are doing something wrong...now for the quick look i took to your loadout you are doing a few things wrong...my personal mod its:

Rejuvenation  /  Cunning drift

Primed continuity, constitution, fleeting expertice (40%),  streamline

Trancient fortitude, stretch, vitality, Regenerative molt

Weapons its a personal matter but in order to get the best of my spores i always carry my Mios with primed reach, that maximizes the spore spreading specially with toxic lash.

saryn doesnt need to focus on being tanky at all, she just needs a decent balance betwen her stats but mostly that you are active with her, as a 40% saryn main user i can tell you shes heavily underestimated and i have proven time and time again on ALL missions except sorties shes a force to be feared

There is a learning curve for sure, for me at least. If people keep reading this, I'll have to edit my post a bit, just now completed a solo survival for 30 on that same Uranus mission. Had my claws out (the part of that story you may have missed about vermilion storm), and brought some other silly weapons (tried to see what would happen with a gas amprex, not that great). I only ran into problems when standing still (life support). It was pretty great.