GPU heat/temperature

[Kitsuneo]

Hi.

Before I get jumped on about my "potato" PC, I have i5-4440, 8GB DDR3 ram, MSI HD 7770. Friend of mine has equilevant PC.

I have seen that the GPU temperature raises drastically while you have any kind of "menu" on,  like Foundry/Arsenal/Navigation, And even the login/splash screen.

The temperature in missions even with 4-people squad dosen't exceed 86c, But when I leave the "menus" on like I mentioned above, teh GPU heat goes to 90-97c, One time it went 104c before I closed game and made sure to let it cool.

 

I wonder if any has this issue, and if so I hope DE fixes it soon .

[MillbrookWest]

I've run Warframe on a Gigabyte 7770 (mates old PC). Not an issue with DE im afraid. Something is up with your hardware (i can be fairly certain of that).

Because we knew he was upgrading, we messed with the 7770 (and his CPU too - a C2Q) and hitting 90C was next to impossible for us - Doing stupid Overclocking, running a burn test with a game running at the same time, running CPU + GPU stress tests and decompressing 1GB+ files etc. Eventually we broke the VRAM, which wasn't a big deal until we popped a capacitor on the Mobo. However, point being we couldn't get the card to reach its thermal limits like you are simply running a game. 

Do you run with V-sync disengaged by any chance? I've said this before but for some strange reason people tend to run Warframe without V-sync which is only really fine if you have a 144Hz monitor. If you don't have a 144Hz monitor your are just putting heat into your components unnecessarily. I have a 970, and while it's possible to get 300fps playing warframe, i cap my frame rate to 70, there's no point having the card pump out frames my 60Hz monitor can't even display.

If you do have some sort of framerate limiter, then i would suggest replacing the thermal paste on the GPU. The 7770 is getting on n years and it is possible the thermal paste is dry(ing) and isn't effectively transferring heat to the heatsink..... Or the heatsink could need cleaning out itself.

The heatsinks on GPU's tend to be able to dissipate the heat of the GPU more than adequately - Even moreso in your case since you have an after market cooler.

[andrer2926]

People tend to run Warframe without v-sync because they can´t get 60 fps constantly to make it worth. Worse after performance hit after last patches.

[MillbrookWest]

5 hours ago, andrer2926 said:

People tend to run Warframe without v-sync because they can´t get 60 fps constantly to make it worth. Worse after performance hit after last patches.

True, i tired to state as much in my post but i felt it made it too convoluted. I made the assumption that the 7770 the OP is using is a decent enough card and should manage 60fps+ in the liset, so just focussed it on that - With the liset being the prime location people who don't run V-sync tend to complain about overheating components. 

[Kitsuneo]

2 hours ago, MillbrookWest said:

True, i tired to state as much in my post but i felt it made it too convoluted. I made the assumption that the 7770 the OP is using is a decent enough card and should manage 60fps+ in the liset, so just focussed it on that - With the liset being the prime location people who don't run V-sync tend to complain about overheating components. 

My 7770 is indeed capable of running the game with more than 60 FPS, if I turn off frame cap it'd go over 80+fps in the liset which is a waste of GPU power (And heat) since my monitor is only 60Hz, I'll try some of the things you posted about and mess around, Thanks :)

 

Edit: It's still the same thing even with trying all of the above, What's more I tried it on my brother's PC aswell, he has GTX 950 and it's new, he gets 54-55c in the liset, but when I once again open menu and leave it for a minute or two, it gets increase of 6-9c

Edited March 31, 2016 by Kitsuneo

[MillbrookWest]

2 hours ago, Kitsuneo said:

My 7770 is indeed capable of running the game with more than 60 FPS, if I turn off frame cap it'd go over 80+fps in the liset which is a waste of GPU power (And heat) since my monitor is only 60Hz, I'll try some of the things you posted about and mess around, Thanks :)

 

Edit: It's still the same thing even with trying all of the above, What's more I tried it on my brother's PC aswell, he has GTX 950 and it's new, he gets 54-55c in the liset, but when I once again open menu and leave it for a minute or two, it gets increase of 6-9c

Did you replace the thermal compound and try dusting out the heatsink on the GPU? Additionally, have you tried running your fans at 100%?

^Using your GPU control panel, you can manually set the fan speed. Set it to 100% and see if this helps.

[Inugami8]

Same here, overheating and fps drops. Arsenal increasing fps drops are back too

[andrer2926]

13 hours ago, MillbrookWest said:

True, i tired to state as much in my post but i felt it made it too convoluted. I made the assumption that the 7770 the OP is using is a decent enough card and should manage 60fps+ in the liset, so just focussed it on that - With the liset being the prime location people who don't run V-sync tend to complain about overheating components. 

Well, it´s barely about the hardware you have, all players can relate to that now. Warframe is in a worse state performance-wise than before (and it wasn´t good neither, never was). People disagreeing on this are delusional or DE fanboys. I have absolutely no thermal issues, running about 120 fps on the liset to 30-40 on draco. What gets me is DE position on this, a big patch to graphic scheduled, say that it won´t affect performance, and even said it would be better to some ( I guess some people knew at this point that this would be either awesome or catastrophic). Patch happens, it is bad. Hotfixes and devstream happens( not a SINGLE comment towards performance issues), and wow, i feel like the company just wanted to ignore the fact that this was a fiasco. Really sad.

 

With that out of the way, 2 solutions for you: get the best hardware available for gaming( still, you could be in trouble with warframe), or just accept it andkeep playing like it is. It could improve i guess.

[carnaga]

5 hours ago, andrer2926 said:

With that out of the way, 2 solutions for you: get the best hardware available for gaming( still, you could be in trouble with warframe), or just accept it andkeep playing like it is. It could improve i guess.

I think performance wise it goes worse which in the other hand is a good thing. For example Anti-aliasing: DE is working with bit sophisticated AA. During latest updates and patches you have probably seen that currently the highest AA setting is renamed as " SMAA (Medium)". But somewhere in the future we get better AA mechanics that is prolly named as "High" -- and it will presumably(?) affect the performance. And if we foresight more to the future, we might also get the "Ultra" settings too (at least I hope so :)

http://i.imgur.com/jWaGspO.gifv

So I suggest to lower the settings and/or limit the in-game fps that gpu doesn't overdo it. Naturally when in-menu the fps goes higher than in liset or in-game. Maybe there is a connection between them and gpu heating up?

And the reason why people don't like to use v-sync is because of the input lag.

But back to topic

I tried to reproduce the issue gathering data for about 30 minutes. Naturally video engine load was reduced by a notch while in options screen but I couldn't get the heat go up and didn't notice issues on memory controller load and so on. Thought I found that while in the menu the power consumption started to go haywire in the similar way while playing warframe :O

Here's the graph:

http://i.imgur.com/moc7eLl.jpg

This is how it looks like while doing missions (On PrefCap Reason line: blue parts are in-game, grey parts are loading screens in-between and the widest grey part on the line is alt-tabbing and starting new mission):

http://i.imgur.com/yTtXXnf.jpg

Edited March 31, 2016 by carnaga

[MillbrookWest]

13 hours ago, andrer2926 said:

Well, it´s barely about the hardware you have, all players can relate to that now. Warframe is in a worse state performance-wise than before (and it wasn´t good neither, never was). People disagreeing on this are delusional or DE fanboys. I have absolutely no thermal issues, running about 120 fps on the liset to 30-40 on draco. What gets me is DE position on this, a big patch to graphic scheduled, say that it won´t affect performance, and even said it would be better to some ( I guess some people knew at this point that this would be either awesome or catastrophic). Patch happens, it is bad. Hotfixes and devstream happens( not a SINGLE comment towards performance issues), and wow, i feel like the company just wanted to ignore the fact that this was a fiasco. Really sad.

 

With that out of the way, 2 solutions for you: get the best hardware available for gaming( still, you could be in trouble with warframe), or just accept it andkeep playing like it is. It could improve i guess.

You undermine the integrity of your post with comments like this. I disagree with you entirely, yet you are free to go through my post history, it wont take you long to find that i am indeed critical of DE on a number of things.

So with that out of the way, it is another common misconception that updates to Warframes Renderer somehow has a negative effect on performance, the reality is this is only true when talking about very low end GPU's. A 7750 is quite a low end GPU (requiring no additional power connectors - It pulls enough power through the PCI connector), yet this GPU is more than sufficient to run Warframe with acceptable visual settings, and performance.

I've said it numerous times, and others have too, Warframes issues are with its game logic - the system that looks after the 'gameworld'. This system has no bearing on how the game 'looks'.

If what you say was true in any way, i wouldn't be able to show this:

Given the opportunity to render frames without limit, my GPU[GPU1] shouldn't be sitting ~70% utilisation. If the renderer were as taxing as suggested in your post, my GPU should max out at 100%[94%] long before any other part of my system became a bottleneck - Screenshot is with all settings maxed.

Irrespective, this is no help to the OP. Warframe has no ability to influence the hardware. All it can do is send it jobs to work on. It is the GPU's job to look after itself, and to that end, 104C is far hotter than a normal 7770's operating temperature. At those temps, the ability for the card to cool itself is severely compromised. Either the fan is not spinning, or the thermal compound is has dried up and the heatsink isn't touching the GPU core anymore.

[Kitsuneo]

5 hours ago, MillbrookWest said:

You undermine the integrity of your post with comments like this. I disagree with you entirely, yet you are free to go through my post history, it wont take you long to find that i am indeed critical of DE on a number of things.

So with that out of the way, it is another common misconception that updates to Warframes Renderer somehow has a negative effect on performance, the reality is this is only true when talking about very low end GPU's. A 7750 is quite a low end GPU (requiring no additional power connectors - It pulls enough power through the PCI connector), yet this GPU is more than sufficient to run Warframe with acceptable visual settings, and performance.

I've said it numerous times, and others have too, Warframes issues are with its game logic - the system that looks after the 'gameworld'. This system has no bearing on how the game 'looks'.

If what you say was true in any way, i wouldn't be able to show this:

Given the opportunity to render frames without limit, my GPU[GPU1] shouldn't be sitting ~70% utilisation. If the renderer were as taxing as suggested in your post, my GPU should max out at 100%[94%] long before any other part of my system became a bottleneck - Screenshot is with all settings maxed.

Irrespective, this is no help to the OP. Warframe has no ability to influence the hardware. All it can do is send it jobs to work on. It is the GPU's job to look after itself, and to that end, 104C is far hotter than a normal 7770's operating temperature. At those temps, the ability for the card to cool itself is severely compromised. Either the fan is not spinning, or the thermal compound is has dried up and the heatsink isn't touching the GPU core anymore.

You're right on the last part, the 104C happened twice to me when I left the foundry open for TOO long (1-2 hours, as I was really busy with real life), But in liset with FPS capped to 60 I can get "normal operating" temperature of 78-82c (Which is STILL TOO HIGH for this game, I ran other high demanding games and max heat i get out of them i 84c and that's with so many things happening)

When I go in missions my heat dosen't go way high, but it's opening the foundry/arsenal/navigation, etc. :) i'm just glad the topic is getting some attention

[[DE]Linkski]

21 hours ago, andrer2926 said:

 I have absolutely no thermal issues, running about 120 fps on the liset to 30-40 on draco. 

Hi andrer2926, I can assure you that Draco is one of the many levels that we are in the process of investigating for performance improvements. With that said, I don't believe I can find any forum posts or support tickets from you requesting assistance in regards to performance. A big part of what helps us track down these issues is when players report them to us. So please feel free to post your concerns in this subforum and let us know where we can improve. It would also help us to know what kind of hardware you are using.

On 3/31/2016 at 2:29 AM, Kitsuneo said:

Edit: It's still the same thing even with trying all of the above, What's more I tried it on my brother's PC aswell, he has GTX 950 and it's new, he gets 54-55c in the liset, but when I once again open menu and leave it for a minute or two, it gets increase of 6-9c

Is this the menu on the Liset or when in a mission? This increase in temperature seems strange to me, but your test leads me to believe that there could be something we can improve with our menus. Will need to investigate. 

22 hours ago, Inugami8 said:

Arsenal increasing fps drops are back too

We have been tracking an issue regarding increases in frame time when navigating the arsenal and we believe we may have an idea of what is causing it. Goal is to hopefully have this resolved soon.

[Kitsuneo]

9 minutes ago, [DE]Dmitri said:

Hi andrer2926, I can assure you that Draco is one of the many levels that we are in the process of investigating for performance improvements. With that said, I don't believe I can find any forum posts or support tickets from you requesting assistance in regards to performance. A big part of what helps us track down these issues is when players report them to us. So please feel free to post your concerns in this subforum and let us know where we can improve. It would also help us to know what kind of hardware you are using.

Is this the menu on the Liset or when in a mission? This increase in temperature seems strange to me, but your test leads me to believe that there could be something we can improve with our menus. Will need to investigate. 

We have been tracking an issue regarding increases in frame time when navigating the arsenal and we believe we may have an idea of what is causing it. Goal is to hopefully have this resolved soon.

The menu is on the liset, I've tested in a mission, normal menu (ESC) dosen't increase, But opening any sub-menu increases it,like  Friends And Clan (From communication), Melee combos and options.

[carnaga]

1 hour ago, Kitsuneo said:

The menu is on the liset, I've tested in a mission, normal menu (ESC) dosen't increase, But opening any sub-menu increases it,like  Friends And Clan (From communication), Melee combos and options.

I did another test under clan communications sub-menu without limiting FPS (I forgot that I've limited the fps to 120 from the driver settings). On previous run max temperature was 66 degrees of Celsius (in sub-menu). And on this run without limiting the fps the Max temperature rose by 3 °C (from 66 °C to 69 °C) while being in Dojo Communications sub-menu.

So the temp gradually rose from 52 °C (desktop temp) to Liset 66 - 67 °C. And after waiting 10 minutes in the dojo sub-menu (total of 20 min waiting) the temperature went as high as 69 °C.

Result: limiting fps to 120 on my computer system gives me 3 °C cooler result while in those sub-menu's. And this time the power consumption didn't go haywire.

Here's the graph:

http://i.imgur.com/kDeYLxR.jpg

Edited April 1, 2016 by carnaga
Corrections...

[andrer2926]

Since you ask for it here it goes. Note that i don´t post my concerns here, primarly because i totally believe that it´s the engine fault, not players systems. And i feel its useless to post here to get answers like "update your drivers", no offense. I totally disagree with MillbrookWest, but hey whatever.

specs: i5-5200u,8 gb ram, 840m. System with OC, perfectly stable.

Short test on draco ~10 minutes,  1 round:

Around 45fps. I absolutely can´t tune down graphic settings anymore, everything in-game is disabled/very low. The only thing i can tune down is res. which i tried with same results. I play with native so i can actually see the lettering. Game tweaked for performance at Nvidia Inspector level aswell. Absolutely minimum settings. This is worse in the void, where i have drops to 20~fps and sorties. Actually after last patches, i can´t have 60 fps stable in any mission at all.

 

Note the gpu barely gets load. Max is about 60%, it mostly hovers around 4x%. GPU-Z actually refers to utilization cap most of the time: like gpu isn´t even being used. And i will stop you right here before someone says "cpu bottleneck". It´s not. Last and not least, this ofc happens mostly with a squad. Solo missions usually are totally fine, even on the void.

 

edit: @[DE]Dmitri still waiting for an honest response to this. I am absolutely curious to hear it. 

Edited April 12, 2016 by andrer2926