Fully Customized Warframes

[Jax_Cavalera]

NEW Concept ;

 

1. Have a Drone Frame that starts with 4 polarized slots that are a 2 x DUAL DASH, 1 x SINGLE DASH & 1 x TRIANGLE

 

2. Allow it to handle any skill mods from any existing frames EXCEPT  FOR  UBER  SKILLS  the number 4 UBER SKILL will remain specific to it's original frame only and can NOT be installed onto the DRONE frame.

 

3. Create 2 or 4 skill mods that could be used for any of the frames including the new drone frame that may be used as an uber replacement.

 

Things to consider :

 

Ideas for neutral Uber style skills would need to be thought out and voted on by the community of cause... it may end up being just 2 or 1 skill.. 

 

Possible skills :

 

Currently there isn't an uber skill that straight out instant team revives.  so if team mates are in a radius of you and you use it, they get revived if they were killed.  it might be handy to really juice up the cost of such a skill from say 100 energy to like 250 ensuring that it would only be usable for a rank 30 frame and only really used 1 time before more energy was required to keep things rolling.  it would also have a reasonably short radius.. not the entire map of cause.

 

it could be more of a reach booster skill where all your team mates and yourself get a 20 second window of time where your other skills / abilities range, power and duration are multiplied by a maximum of 30%   keep in mind this is an UBER replacement skill so it's going to cost default 100 energy.. max is likely a 5 times in a row repeat lasting 1 minute 40 seconds.

 

 

could be an ammo recharge skill or a clone skill where it takes the abilities of whatever you target friend or foe (EXCLUDES BOSSES) and applies a BASE VERSION  tier 1 unranked version .. to your frame for 1 minute. though that seems more like a skill you would actually have exclusive to the drone frame now I think about it.

 

 

 

ORIGINAL  IDEA  BELOW  THIS  POINT  KEPT  FOR  REFERENCE  ONLY

 

 

 

 

 

THE CONCEPT

Currently in the game you are able to apply mods to all frames but the Skill mods are only working for set warframes. If you add a mod to a polarized slot that do not match, you get a penalty for this. I think it would be great to have the ability to also add Skill Mods to any warframe.

However, in doing so you would be penalized appropriately to ensure that warframes do not get overpowered.

E.G. A mod that normally costs 10 points in a polarized slot only costs 5.

Therefore a Skill Mod (that normally costs 10 points) not meant for your frame placed into a non polarized slot would cost you 20 points. If you place it into the correct polarity slot, it would cost 10 points and if placed into the wrong polarity, it would cost you (1/3rd of 20 points) + 20 points = 26 points.

These figures are just a starting point, however it gives a pretty good idea of what can be achieved.

THE GOAL

The goal here is to allow for example a Mag warframe the ability to perform Crush and also Trinity's Well of Life or Banshee's Sonic Boom etc.. BUT the key being that all abilities would not reach maximum power (or if they did, the frame would have absolutely no shield boost or vitality boosts.. so it would be very weak.

 

The goal is provide a means for even more diversity between players and their frames.. NOT a method for creating even more over powered warframes.


INTENDED OUTCOME

In life people aren't boxed into one skill set with no ability to learn other skills unnatural to them, so why should warframe (a game focused on building a unique warframe) limit players like this either. So long as we are able to achieve a well balanced outcome, where it's not possible to make a warframe that is clearly over powered.. I think each frame will always have it's strengths and weaknesses.

With a maximum number of points to spend, on your frame, it will make players think carefully about which way they want to mod their frame up and will produce an even broader range of unique warframes that have skill sets and combinations of skills never thought of prior to their usage.

IN CLOSING

There has been speculation that this will reduce the will for a player to try other warframes out, but I don't see this happening for the reason as outlined below :

Each frame still has it's Dedicated Skill Mods and these mods can be much stronger on their intended frames as expected.. so it would make sense if you plan on building a frame that deals heavy Fire damage but can also create a Decoy like Loki, then you would either start with a base Ember or Loki frame and then build up from there instead of using a Mag or Banshee which would nerf performance below average for any frame.

I look forward to seeing the contributions the community can add to this idea so it becomes a reality and is able to function as outlined above.

Thanks,
Jax


EDIT

I like the idea being proposed to add a new Item that adds "Polarized" slots to your frame so it can handle 'foreign' skill mods with a penalty on points AND the limit of 1 such slot per frame.


The mentioned scenario where a frame has 4 strong skills and nothing else seems to make sense at first. It paints a picture of a 1 man army that can take down large defense waves.

After thinking about it more, it occurred to me that most frames (without mods to boost energy) can only perform their ultimate move 1 time before running out (low) of energy. If those powers were all used in conjunction, the player would still need to find a way to obtain enough energy to perform them all so they could actually achieve an overpowered state.. which seems to be the problem if they go too far away from their frame's core skill set.

 

They would not have enough points to spare on mods that increase energy levels or recharge rates.. so they are left with a weak low shield frame that can only cast 1 awesome attack at a time.  not quite the OP frame I initially imagined when reading the cautioning scenario.

Edited June 27, 2013 by Jax_Cavalera

[Zarkosan]

erm... no.

[Endrance]

Yes and no.

 

Yes on adding "multiple" warframe skills. Would be "nice"

 

No, about the mod price. Adding the mod in a not Polarity mod, increase the price by half (instead of 10, up to 15), if in a polarized slot, doubled. You want that skill? pay for it

[TheGameYouJustLostIt]

nope

[Syndrella]

Multiple warframe skills would be really nice which can be add to every frame but every frame have special skills and this thing is okay here. Small deegre focusing to other skills maybe can be good but actually this game have enough potentials.

[notionphil]

I promise you that this will occur at some time in the future. Not in this iteration, but yes, there will be 'multi-class' warframes.

 

More likely, you will be able to Konna (or something instead of forma) one power slot in a frame, allowing you to add powers from any class at a 100% cost increase.

[Tsukinoki]

The closest we would get to this is having multi-frame skills. General skills to do something without being too spectacular. DE has mentioned this before in a few old forum threads.

Otherwise what would you if a frame had Crush, Vortex, Bastille and Link? Even though it would lead to not having many points left over for anything else it would lead to frames getting far too powerful, especially for defense missions and such.

The reason that the skills are separate and different for each frame is that each frame is a standard class from an MMO. And you dont see fighters throwing around fireballs in (most) MMOs out there because they come from two different classes.

@notionphil

Please dont make "promises" when you dont have anything to back them up. Especially when you dont talk for DE. That will just confuse people.

[notionphil]

The closest we would get to this is having multi-frame skills. General skills to do something without being too spectacular. DE has mentioned this before in a few old forum threads.

Otherwise what would you if a frame had Crush, Vortex, Bastille and Link? Even though it would lead to not having many points left over for anything else it would lead to frames getting far too powerful, especially for defense missions and such.

The reason that the skills are separate and different for each frame is that each frame is a standard class from an MMO. And you dont see fighters throwing around fireballs in (most) MMOs out there because they come from two different classes.

@notionphil

Please dont make "promises" when you dont have anything to back them up. Especially when you dont talk for DE. That will just confuse people.

 

True, the promises of a player mean nothing...But I do have 15 years of MMO experience to back them up :)

 

Everyone goes multiclass in some way or another!

[N4G4M4K1]

Absolutely not. If DE made skills non-specific to a certain frame, that opens an ENTIRE SPECTRUM for exploits and a massive wave of rebalancing. It would literally destroy the game as it is now. Not to mention it entirely defeats the purpose of having multiple frames. You could just spec out any frame how you wanted it and shift skills around as you please, with no need to actually unlock access to other frames.

 

This idea is horribly flawed and will never happen.

[Kolossov]

I promise you that this will occur at some time in the future. Not in this iteration, but yes, there will be 'multi-class' warframes.

 

More likely, you will be able to Konna (or something instead of forma) one power slot in a frame, allowing you to add powers from any class at a 100% cost increase.

 

That's the model I like best.... have an additional type of polarity slot, one that allows skills from other warframes to be used, but penalises all other mod types. The only way to obtain it, from a rare item. That would do a lot to make the game more fun IMO

 

This would only work if only one such polarity slot could be added per frame

Edited June 12, 2013 by Kolossov

[Grotto19]

Though it would be fun to use powers from another frame I think it would be a mistake to bring that into the game. Each frame usually has one power which makes you want that frame. Without that limitation one wouldn't need or want to bother getting other frames. And everyone would be equiping the same few powers which would be boring (we already see this with weapons). Also in most online RPG's multiclass types do not get to pick and chose the powers they want from another class, they have their own set which does not fit a standard role (tank, blaster, steath etc.). I think it would be much beter to improve the unused powers than to allow equiping powers from other frames.

[Jax_Cavalera]

Though it would be fun to use powers from another frame I think it would be a mistake to bring that into the game. Each frame usually has one power which makes you want that frame. Without that limitation one wouldn't need or want to bother getting other frames. And everyone would be equiping the same few powers which would be boring (we already see this with weapons). Also in most online RPG's multiclass types do not get to pick and chose the powers they want from another class, they have their own set which does not fit a standard role (tank, blaster, steath etc.). I think it would be much beter to improve the unused powers than to allow equiping powers from other frames.

 

I believe that I address this issue of players not wanting to use a variety of frames or players only using a specific set of skills in the opening post and consecutive edit.

 

It is a problem with seemingly most online RPG's, the players all end up using the same skills and weapons for their class.  If you look at a game like Counter Strike, you find that there is no 1 gun that players pick over other guns, they each have their purpose to suit a given playing style. And players tend to mix and match between these choices all the time.  The only reason certain weapons are being used more than others currently is due to balance issues where some weapons are stronger than others and have more potential or they suit a vast majority of player's fighting styles.

 

Not everyone will equip a latron prime.. some play stealth and favor alternatives to this to suit, some play from distance and prefer sniper rifles.  Not all skills will work well together either, let alone be viable to launch back to back without gathering up the required energy.

 

The one key point that has so far managed to hold water as a true con for this idea is that it will require careful planning or the entire game would need re-balancing which is clearly out of the question.  If the penalties and implementation are executed correctly, the game will remain balanced but provide the positives outlined.

[Tsukinoki]

Jax_Cavalera, on 12 Jun 2013 - 10:12 AM, said:

I believe that I address this issue of players not wanting to use a variety of frames or players only using a specific set of skills in the opening post and consecutive edit.

It is a problem with seemingly most online RPG's, the players all end up using the same skills and weapons for their class. If you look at a game like Counter Strike, you find that there is no 1 gun that players pick over other guns, they each have their purpose to suit a given playing style. And players tend to mix and match between these choices all the time. The only reason certain weapons are being used more than others currently is due to balance issues where some weapons are stronger than others and have more potential or they suit a vast majority of player's fighting styles.

Not everyone will equip a latron prime.. some play stealth and favor alternatives to this to suit, some play from distance and prefer sniper rifles. Not all skills will work well together either, let alone be viable to launch back to back without gathering up the required energy.

The one key point that has so far managed to hold water as a true con for this idea is that it will require careful planning or the entire game would need re-balancing which is clearly out of the question. If the penalties and implementation are executed correctly, the game will remain balanced but provide the positives outlined.

Then the problem comes up:

What would be the POINT of ever using a different frame?

You like that ability? Why not use it on your current level 30 frame instead of getting a new frame and ranking it up?

In order to increase the play time of the game they release a bunch of frames with *unique* abilities so that you have to buy/grind a new frame out to use it and then move onto the next.

In your system there would be absolutely ZERO reason to do that.

You would be killing two things:

1) Uniqueness between frames (now they are just graphics and nothing else!)

2) The need/drive to use any other frame but the starter you chose.

[weezedog]

If nothing else, this would never happen due to all the costs associated with getting every skills animation added to every single frame. That is very expensive and time consuming. Not going to happen. What you will probably see are some generic skills that can be used on every frame. Nothing too powerful, probably using a generic casting animation added to all frames.

[Oleker]

Whatever new freature or new mod... I will stay with my Loki ones, all of them. =D

[Jax_Cavalera]

Then the problem comes up:

What would be the POINT of ever using a different frame?

You like that ability? Why not use it on your current level 30 frame instead of getting a new frame and ranking it up?

In order to increase the play time of the game they release a bunch of frames with *unique* abilities so that you have to buy/grind a new frame out to use it and then move onto the next.

In your system there would be absolutely ZERO reason to do that.

You would be killing two things:

1) Uniqueness between frames (now they are just graphics and nothing else!)

2) The need/drive to use any other frame but the starter you chose.

See, I just don't see that happening when you take into account that replacing one of your existing powers with a foreign one adds around 20+ points to your warframe's point count which, unless there is a good reason for it, will heavily reduce the other powers of your frame being that a skill mod suited to your chosen frame takes up about 1/4 of this in points.  So I still see PLENTY of reasons why you would be trying other frames out.

 

Regarding the "Expensive" cost to add such animations to other classes, this really isn't an expensive or time consuming feature to add.

 

Each frame already is rigged properly AND they are all biped models so they will comfortably mix and match rig animations no dramas at all.  it would simply be a case of telling each of the 14 or so available frames that when X mod is launched, set player model animation to the corresponding animation... in fact it's quite likely that they coded this into the mod NOT into the frame which means it would require no additional work on that front... that last part is only speculation as I'm not a coder for DE.

[KF_Kenobi]

Each frame already is rigged properly AND they are all biped models so they will comfortably mix and match rig animations no dramas at all.  it would simply be a case of telling each of the 14 or so available frames that when X mod is launched, set player model animation to the corresponding animation... in fact it's quite likely that they coded this into the mod NOT into the frame which means it would require no additional work on that front... that last part is only speculation as I'm not a coder for DE.

 

I was thinking exactly the same thing.

 

Being a CG artist and mild coder myself, this is how I would have done it.

 

On topic: First thing's first, I am NOT a fan of traditional rigid character classes. That said I feel the modality of frames is an important part of the game, and opening up skills from one frame to another is a huge change at any mod capacity price (expensive is not inherently balanced).

[NotBot]

Well, I just disagree with this idea on principle, if nothing else. This would destroy some of the unique properties of the Warframes, and people would just develop new "optimal" sets that could make use of the powers of other frames. Diversity only happens when all strategies are equally powerful and/or interesting. You'd end up with a lot of variety for a while, but then someone does the math and all the variety vanishes like a puff of smoke. Even worse is if multi-framing is underpowered and/or dull, which means a lot of work for DE without much payoff. Hell, some frames are just used for one ability, and they'd never be touched if not for that ability. I could easily see no one ever touching Ember ever again for her poor base stats.

 

TL;DR: This is a lot of work, would make your favorite frame less unique, and wouldn't make the game more diverse.

[Enlil]

Let me think an moment..... uh, no. i dont feel nothing for this idea. sry.

[mac101099]

good ideai think. I would like to use rhinos "invincibility" on my volt I would like that

[Sumnus]

I'm in the "no thanks" category. I'd rather have cross-class frames made by DE, not by players. It'll work out better that way for everyone.

[Kyte]

Consider an Excalibur with Bullet Attractor.

 

Nope. Bad idea.

[DAWGUNITALPHA]

No, removing the individuality of frames would be crippling. Maybe in the future we'll get generic abilities that anyone can use, but as it is some frames get little enough use.

[Jax_Cavalera]

Consider an Excalibur with Bullet Attractor.

 

Nope. Bad idea.

How much energy would that combo require?  If i'm not mistaken it would chew up all available energy meaning that you can use the move once if playing solo.  So you take down 1 enemy.. you are then left with no energy and have a pretty weak frame due to spending all your points on that combo.. 

 

Perhaps as an alternative... instead of thinking about applying all the mods to all the frames.. what about having a "Drone" frame, which is essentially a blank slate.  It has no ability to add polarity to slots but can take any mod from any class and unlike other frames that can reach 60 using a potato, it max's at 25 and 50 respectively.

 

Although not necessary, it would be cool if the drone frame changed in appearance taking traits from the various existing frames depending on how dominant a specific skill mod was in level.

 

Would this be a preferred solution that can be adapted using our collective think tank?

[Tsukinoki]

@Jax_Cavalera

Having a specific frame that can use other frames abilities would be better than being able to be able to equip any ability on any frame. And this could go for a few caveats that would balance it out a bit more, even if it can reach 60 with a potato:

-No polarities

-A *slight* penalty to the abilities so that while they can be useful and powerful, they wont be as powerful as the original frame using them.

An example would be it using IS and at max level only getting 650-700 points of protection instead of 800, or for damaging abilities dealing less damage, or not lasting as long, or having a smaller AOE.

That would allow people to use multiple abilities and create a frame that can do any combination of things they want, but it simply cant do it as well. This would make the original frames more attractive because while they can't do anything, they can do what they can do a bit better. And it can be handwaved in that the drone frame isn't optimized for using the abilities and what not.

This would keep the frames distinct, not allow some frames to become too powerful, and it would keep an incentive to play the original frames even if they only have one good ability. The original idea would have some frames be abandoned because their one or two good abilities can then be used by any other frame at the same level of effectiveness and such.

Edited June 13, 2013 by Tsukinoki