Space Ninja Capitalism?

[Lumireaver]

So... why do Grineer, Corpus, and Tenno all use the same currency?

 

Let me begin by stating that I am complacent with universal credits as a game mechanic. They do what they're supposed to, and they do it very well. That said, the existence of a universal currency shared between these three adversarial factions simply defies logic. (Maybe. See if you can make it make any sense.) In an effort to placate my desire for strong internal logic, I'd like to open a discussion on the subject.

 

I'd like to see credits totally removed. Tenno are space ninjas, and don't seem like they should be stealing spare change from lockers anyhow. (Looting resources still makes a fair bit of sense, however.) Naturally, if credits were to be nixed, we would need suitable replacements to fill the voids caused by their absence... I'll cover this one issue at a time.

 

Blueprints:

Credits are used to buy blueprints. From who, exactly? ...Nobody knows. Unless there are plans to flesh out the economy and explain just how all of this trading works, I feel it would be better to convert the Market (Excluding the Plat-shop, obviously...) into something closer to the R&D-based mechanic which U8 has introduced. (Which could also use some tweaking...) What I have in mind is pretty simple. Blueprints would be a kind of unlockable. The exact conditions would be listed somewhere in-game, (presumably in the Foundry, next to a blacked-out silhouette of the weapon to be created) but, for example, to unlock the Machete one would need to kill XX Grineer Scorpions.

 

But blueprints are one time use! Unlockable weapons kind of totally destroys that! ...Not necessarily. A new, merit based item could be introduced to commit to the R&D, producing a blueprint. Ideally, earning these things would be about as "hard" as earning around 15k cr is now.

 

Also Foundry tabs for Grineer/Corpus/Tenno weaponry, Warframes, and 'misc' blueprints.

 

Additionally, tilesets/lockers can drop faction specific collectibles which aid (or are required for) R&D towards faction specific weapons. Like locker-specific common versions of the current R&D items used for more common weapons. (Arranged so that they don't interfere with anything else on the drop tables, naturally.) ...So you would need XX Grineer tech-tickets and YY Scorpion kills, or whatever.

 

Mod Fusion:

This is kind of a huge credit sink. Presumably it was made this way by design. In order to eat excess credits. It could be made so that accumulated affinity is banked and could be allotted...kind of exactly like credits only by another name.

 

To put a slightly different spin on it, fusion cores could be made into the only way to upgrade, and a method to convert plain old mods into fusion cores (exact level determined by rarity and quantity of deposited mods) could be introduced.

 

...What else are credits used for? ...Purchasing consumables? ...Those could be made into a plain old drop? (In fact, ammo pickups could be removed/replaced with infrequently dropped ammo boxes. [Only dropped by enemies carrying the appropriate weapons, naturally...] Instead of the eight-item loadout we currently have, it would just display our number of available ammo boxes or something...)

 

But I'm veering off course now.

 

Anyway, yeah. Everyone's complaining about having too many credits so there.  :-P

[LazyTemplar]

Three possibilities:  

 

1)  The Corpus and Grineer aren't the only human populations in the solar system.  But, everyone uses the same currency.  The Tenno/Lotus purchase supplies from other groups, or from the Corpus/Grineer black market.  

 

2)  The Tenno/Lotus aren't involved in a full scale war with either the Corpus or Grineer.  Rather, the missions involve attacks on specific subfactions (possibly criminal) within the Corpus/Grineer hierarchy.  This means that the Tenno/Lotus can still purchase supplies from other Corpus or Grineer.  

 

3)  The Tenno/Lotus have connections with either a resistance movement, or the Corpus/Grineer black market.  People who will sell to terrorists no questions asked.  

 

In terms of Infested dropping credits, I always assumed they just retained whatever credits were in their possession when they were infested by the technocyte plague.  They don't use credits.  They just never bothered to get rid of them.  Same with mods.  

[Lumireaver]

The issue is that the Corpus and Grineer keep the same credit cards in their lockers. Two adversarial factions with such extraordinarily different cultures aren't likely to use the same kind of "paper money." Now if credits were backed by some kind of space gold  or something and their value was controlled by some kind of huge almighty space federation it would make sense, but that wouldn't make sense in and of itself. 

 

It could be that we're making deals with defectors from either faction, but that doesn't explain the whole currency conundrum...or why they don't just give us free weapons considering the gravity of the threat.

 

And yeah, Infested are infested. They don't have a socioeconomic structure because they're a disease.

 

Anyhow, I was talking with KitsuAccalia, and they suggested that ammo could be crafted out of salvage or something. I thought it was particularly ingenious. Should be implimented alongside this. (Or energy weapons could require energy cells or something.)

 

Also I forgot about Tenno weapons. Which really ought to be the Mastery Rank rewards. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense that becoming a more recognized/elite Tenno gives us the right to use such delicate and revered instruments as the Hek, which is a Grineer weapon.

Edited June 12, 2013 by Lumireaver

[NotBot]

It could easily be the reserve currency of most nations hanging around the solar system, or some commodity, like being a data storage device or something. And if so, black markets would love to get their hands on military files to sell to the highest bidder.

 

It's all nebulous, but most certainly falls under willing suspension of disbelief, like how mods work, or how I can kill the exact same man repeatedly, or even why my space-ninja has a limited supply of heroic resolve that replenishes daily or by ingesting platinum, however that works.

[Tetsmeha]

The bigger question is who are we paying when we buy stuff from the market or craft items?

[Lumireaver]

It could easily be the reserve currency of most nations hanging around the solar system, or some commodity, like being a data storage device or something. And if so, black markets would love to get their hands on military files to sell to the highest bidder.

 

It's all nebulous, but most certainly falls under willing suspension of disbelief, like how mods work, or how I can kill the exact same man repeatedly, or even why my space-ninja has a limited supply of heroic resolve that replenishes daily or by ingesting platinum, however that works.

 

If you're going to run with that, why do they all use compatible hardware? Grineer and Corpus tech seems to be radically different. Like I said, it's a good game mechanic, but I feel it could be better. That's what "feedback" is about.

 

I was thinking about constructing an idea http://www.pathofexile.com/item-data/currency'>similar to Path of Exile's currency.  In that game you play as an exile (derp) who has been banished to some scary island. As such, it wouldn't make any sense for you to trade in gold. (People tend to not care about gold when they're being chased by the undead.) Instead, the devs designed a bunch of useful items which you could use, or trade with other exiles. It works pretty flawlessly. That would take a lot of thought to balance though, so I proposed something much less invasive. Though I reserve the right to edit my post later with all kinds of crazy ideas for faction specific currency/upgrade items with Forma and Orokin Catalysts/Reactors taking center stage.

Edited June 13, 2013 by Lumireaver

[RepublicanJesus]

Maybe the credits are like nanites in System Shock 2? That would explain why you use they for mod fusion and building things.

[NotBot]

If you're going to run with that, why do they all use compatible hardware? Grineer and Corpus tech seems to be radically different. Like I said, it's a good game mechanic, but I feel it could be better. That's what "feedback" is about.

It could easily be some kind of Orokin data module, which both of them would make sure to be compatible with, for obvious reasons. And again, black markets would be very interested in that.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59GwT_Qlj0Y'>And as for your original idea,

 

I mean, who the heck is building these things for me? Or doing the research? Lotus? I doubt she has time for that. Me? I'm too busy slaughtering Grineer. And heck, when did my Loki become a theoretical physicist? Or an absurdly capable weapons technician?

 

And as for the mod idea, this would require an explanation to what affinity is. I mean, am I literally bleeding my experiences and thoughts out my ears to combine what are presumably circuits? If not, how am I producing this circuit-bonding substance? Is my frame stealing my lactic acid and turning it into solder? Why do my guns and frame produce this substance, why is said substance stored only up to a certain amount, and why do all factions keep balls of exactly 100 units of the substance on board?

 

I guess I'm nitpicking, but what you propose isn't defensible on a logical standpoint either way.

[Lumireaver]

It could easily be some kind of Orokin data module, which both of them would make sure to be compatible with, for obvious reasons. And again, black markets would be very interested in that.

 

 

I mean, who the heck is building these things for me? Or doing the research? Lotus? I doubt she has time for that. Me? I'm too busy slaughtering Grineer. And heck, when did my Loki become a theoretical physicist? Or an absurdly capable weapons technician?

 

And as for the mod idea, this would require an explanation to what affinity is. I mean, am I literally bleeding my experiences and thoughts out my ears to combine what are presumably circuits? If not, how am I producing this circuit-bonding substance? Is my frame stealing my lactic acid and turning it into solder? Why do my guns and frame produce this substance, why is said substance stored only up to a certain amount, and why do all factions keep balls of exactly 100 units of the substance on board?

 

I guess I'm nitpicking, but what you propose isn't defensible on a logical standpoint either way.

 

That's actually a pretty workable idea... I like it, except for one thing. Upon cursory analysis, I feel that it would be kind of difficult to attribute a hard and fast numerical value to an Orokin data module, and it'd be pretty weird for the stuff to be popping out of everywhere and everything.

 

I've always been under the impression that we're not crazy space ninja weaponsmiths. We're amnesiac Tenno operating ancient technology just barely beyond our own understanding. The Foundry, in my mind, is basically a crazy Orokin 3D printer. The blueprints are consumed and there is nothing we can do about it because we don't know how to advance the technology any further. It's kind of an as-is deal. So it all kind of makes sense to me, but I'm the kind of person who likes to find reason in the chaos.

 

Yeah, the affinity thing is kind of a stretch, which is why I prefer the cores-only solution. Affinity is already kind of gamey, and it mostly exists to sell affinity boosters. 

[unmog]

I agree, you should join my petition to rename credits to "glue" since thats basically all theyre used for. Blueprints? You're going to need some glue to hold all those parts together. Fusing mods? More glue required. Thats basically all our credits are used for, other than trading for like other blueprints. Everyone needs glue though am I right?

[Inberun]

game logic. /thread

[Timmuk]

What do you think this is? EVE Online?

 

Its a kill everything, spam bullets and super powers, kill more of everything FPS with little story, and little point other than killing and farming

[Sebbo]

If you see it from the standpoint that Lotus aswell as Tenno are outsiders in this system and they basicly have to get stuff out of a black market, they have to get some of the stuff from the enemy itself named by Grineer and Corpus (via black market). At least it makes kinda sense in my head that i have to pay with the currency of the enemy.

[Kamal965]

 

I've always been under the impression that we're not crazy space ninja weaponsmiths. We're amnesiac Tenno operating ancient technology just barely beyond our own understanding. The Foundry, in my mind, is basically a crazy Orokin 3D printer. The blueprints are consumed and there is nothing we can do about it because we don't know how to advance the technology any further. It's kind of an as-is deal. So it all kind of makes sense to me, but I'm the kind of person who likes to find reason in the chaos.

 

 

That always was my thoughts on the matter: a machine/forgery that you place the blueprints and required resources in, while it proceeds to build it for you. The way no one understands technology in this universe reminds me of Warhammer 40,000.

 

 

If you see it from the standpoint that Lotus aswell as Tenno are outsiders in this system and they basicly have to get stuff out of a black market, they have to get some of the stuff from the enemy itself named by Grineer and Corpus (via black market). At least it makes kinda sense in my head that i have to pay with the currency of the enemy.

 

That still doesn't explain why two completely different cultures and armies share a currency.

[unmog]

Well they both started out as humans from earth didnt they? And Im sure there's civilians somewhere in the solar system. I dont see why two different countries couldnt share a currency. Europe does it with the Euro right?

[Kamal965]

Well they both started out as humans from earth didnt they? And Im sure there's civilians somewhere in the solar system. I dont see why two different countries couldnt share a currency. Europe does it with the Euro right?

 

Both with radically different views, motives and cultures. Both constantly slaughter each other.

 

The European Union has the Euro because each of the 25 countries in the Union agree to using a shared currency. The Corpus and Grineer aren't in an alliance/union, not at all.

[Lumireaver]

game logic. /thread

 

Precisely. +1

 

What do you think this is? EVE Online?

 

Its a kill everything, spam bullets and super powers, kill more of everything FPS with little story, and little point other than killing and farming

 

I couldn't have put it better myself! This isn't EVE Online, there shouldn't be a huge, interconnected space economy. We're space ninjas, not space mall hoppers! Well said, my friend.

[Cpl_Facehugger]

 

So... why do Grineer, Corpus, and Tenno all use the same currency?

A better question is why did the Orokin use the same currency? After all, towers are full of boxes with credits in them?

Gameplay wise the answer is obvious, but lorewise... Hm.

Perhaps it's a matter of the various empires in the solar system inheriting the orokin currency system after the fall of the orokin. First, let's suppose that 'credits' as a concept of currency are originally orokin in orgin, because we find them in towers which are sealed up until someone gets ahold of a void key. So if we assume that, and we assume that the orokin had general commercial domination of Sol so their credits were the equivalent of the US Dollar today, their credits would be the de facto currency, with sheer cultural inertia keeping them in use until the corpus and grineer rebuilt themselves. At which point, they simply continue to use the currency system set up by the orokin simply because it's already there, even if it's in a bit of disrepair due to the collapse of the orokin civilization. Easier than starting from scratch.

Alternatively, perhaps an Alpha Centauri style route would work: Each credit is a battery with X joules of energy stored inside, which can then be used. So grineer and corpus and orokin credits would have different external casings, but wouldn't be any more valuable because they've got the same amount of energy inside. The reason all the credits look the same is because it's a minor detail that would force DE to model three separate currency types. Granted this would mean they can't be a fiat currency, but meh.

Edited June 13, 2013 by Cpl_Facehugger

[Lakais]

Facehuigger here brings up very good points. The "energy" idea is the most probable.

 

My theories go that one: "credits" are just an another resource. Grineer are clones in an army. They have no need for money since it's safe to assume that the army provides all they need. The Corpus that we see are indoctrinated (brainwashed) and part of the security branch. Basically Corpus's own rent-a-cop army. Infested are made up of grineer and corpus so what's in the pocked stays in the pocket until pilfered. 

 

Or more likely: if what we see in the game is only a very small part of all the sides. And we fight in a sort of "shadow war". Publicly the Grineer and Corpus might get along to some extent. At least economically since as far as I have seen, mining is handled by the Grineer but most of the production and logistics of goods might just be handled by the Corpus. Grineer side provides the raw materials that the Coprus need for their own thing and in return they provide goods and services required to sustain the civilian populations and the grineer war machine. 

 

I wouldn't be surprised if the general population had no idea that there are actual live Tenno running around the system. In this particular case where there is at least some kind of cooperation going on between the Grineer and Corpus, it isn't too far fetched that there is at least some kind of shared currency or trading resource. And since the Corpus are mostly basing their stuff off of orokin tech (or trying to) it isn't too far fetched that the option of them using Orokin era monetary/resource systems because they are already there and work. And Tenno just use this money to get stuff through lotus.