Saryn Questions (Concealed Explosive, general build)

[ZenVoid]

So I come to you wise Tenno with a few questions. I've been tinkering with Saryn a bit lately.

 

I see a lot of recommendations to use Hikou Prime with Concealed explosives to pop spores.  I don't have concealed explosives yet so I haven't been able to test this myself (somehow managed to farm Ivara and not get concealed, go figure RNG). This seems to be considered the holy grail that I see popping up a lot of the time. Currently I use either Sonicor with Toxin or Sancti Castanas with Toxin to pop spores as my secondary and have a rad/toxin Ignis for primary. I feel like I must be missing something in regards to why Explosive Hikou is considered the holy grail and would appreciate some insight on that.

 

As a follow up question, I feel like I put out solid damage but not the amazing DPS that some people rave about. I'm running 125% power, 235% range 130% efficiency and 103% duration with Vitality and Regen Molt for survivability. Overall it's solid to play for most missions but I don't feel like it's that godly DPS I see raved about so often here. I feel like the extra range makes it much more viable for general play, and I could probably drop that to increase strength (drop overextended) if I was focusing on endless missions specifically, but right now I'm just looking at general play. On this same note, I usually pack both the Ignis and Sonicor with Toxin. Would I be better off popping spores with the sonicor since it has a higher shot damage than I would get out of the Ignis since I assume the 'pop' comes from a single tic of damage which is relatively low in comparison.

 

Thanks for any feedback and advice!

[PikeOrShield]

The reason Concealed Explosives synergies well with spore is because the explosions pop all the spores within a 10m radius. All the spores deal burst damage and stack tics of viral damage with additional spores onto all enemies in their burst range, so the damage scales with the number of enemies in the 20m diameter of the explosions.  The spores also spread outside of that 20m diameter and destroy crowds.  Imagine this happening several times per/sec and you will get the general idea.  Most of the time, you don't need to proc toxin at all to increase spores damage since the viral proc and viral damage alone is enough to take you well into level 60 without x4CP and into the 100s with x4CP.  You can mod the Hikou for Gas or Toxin for the extra damage.

Consider modding your Ignis and Sonicor for gas damage as opposed to toxin.  Gas damage is less useful, but gas procs are better then toxin procs for a few reasons.  Gas procs are actually an AOE (5m radius) version of toxin procs and gas is easier to proc since you can increase its proc chance with heat and toxin mods as opposed to just toxin mods.  So not only do they occur more often, but one gas proc can be equal to 4-5+ toxin procs depending on how many enemies are in the area.  Gas procs also pop spores automatically, so if you accidentally shot the wrong guy next to the one you spored, it still has the same effect so long as they are within 5 meters of eachother.

As for the godly DPS.  You do not want to drop Overextended.  The crazy damage comes from spores spreading toxin procs and bouncing them between enemies in an infinite stack.  The more enemies in the blast area, the faster the toxin and spore damage can stack.

Now I do know how you can raise your damage to those insane numbers as I have reached them myself, but promise yourself that you will try this before saying I'm crazy.  Drop all your efficiency, keep max range (at least Stretch and Overextended), and build for  high (200ish) strength.  There are many other Saryn players who do this with Stretch, Overextended, and Blind Rage being the mods that define this sort of build.  This is my build for it:

Spoiler

http://warframe-builder.com/Warframes/Builder/Saryn_Prime/t_30_3022400230_2-4-10-4-0-5-12-2-10-34-8-5-46-5-5-59-1-3-411-7-10-471-6-3-479-3-10-615-9-5_4-5-59-9-12-8-479-7-2-6-46-11-471-9-411-8-34-14-615-9_0/en/1-0-44/

Here's how you use it:

Spoiler

 A build like this takes some practice to get used to.  You only have to cast Spore once and then keep it going.  The build is a bit overkill for low level missions and you will kill all the enemies so fast you won't be able to keep it going since there's no one left standing.  For high levels, keep spore going and only cast other abilities when you have to or when you have some to burn for fun.   Zenurik makes it a lot easier to maintain the energy consumption, but I have been just fine using other focus trees.  If I ever run out of energy, I try to take a bit of damage to activate Rage and then I can cast Molt to gain 100 health/sec.

Here's another thread about the same sort of build so you don't have to just take my word for it:

If you have any questions, please ask.

[ZenVoid]

Thank you for the information. I had pretty well thought that range would be a big factor for this. Concealed Ex has double the AOE range of sonicor so that's a pretty big jump right there. It seems like the volume of procs is more important than the damage that causes them in most cases. I feel like I've gotta be missing something when it comes to... torrid. Obviously it's not going to be that great for anything mobile but for a Defense or survival where you camp an area would it not perform well?

 

I will have to try the low efficiency build sometime when I'm going to run something higher level than the usual star map stuff since it will be straight overkill and hamstring itself by killing without being able to fully spread most of the time.

 

Very much appreciated for all the information and answers.

[PikeOrShield]

@ZenVoid

I'm glad I could help.

From what I understand about the Torrid, it will work best in any situation where enemies have to pass through the cloud to get where they're going.  I've seen it hold enemies at choke points in rescue and capture missions and I've also seen it used to control a couple of rooms in survival.  The Only mission types I think it would do poorly in are extermination type missions where you need to go to the enemy and not the other way around.

[ZenVoid]

Another question in regards to modding Hikou Prime with Concealed Explosives...

Since the explosion will pop all the spores in one go, is it worth modding for Multishot? Normally I'm a big fan of this stat, but I'm not sure I'll get any mileage out of it with this build.

[PikeOrShield]

43 minutes ago, ZenVoid said:

Another question in regards to modding Hikou Prime with Concealed Explosives...

Since the explosion will pop all the spores in one go, is it worth modding for Multishot? Normally I'm a big fan of this stat, but I'm not sure I'll get any mileage out of it with this build.

It would take some testing to confirm if the multi shot mods cause more spores to pop.  I use both of the multi shot mods in my builds for a couple reasons.

1.  They help with status when trying to proc something.

2.  They increase the conventional damage output so the weapon works better against single targets or un-spored targets.  If I mod for gas damage, I prefer this slight buff to single target damage in case I run into a lone heavy gunner or something.

3.  The extra fire rate from lethal torrent is also very helpful in increasing the # of pops/sec.

I would personally throw them in, but all you really need for lower levels is Concealed Explosives and a fire rate mod.  In higher levels, it's up to you.

[tischkanteVS]

I think hikous aren't that good, tested and find it meh.

Try max range(238 or was it 250?) max power(238) no efficiency and Rest duration(like 80)

Then use 100%+ Gas ignis just to spread things and something which Deals dmg you want to spread.

Like: put spores on an enemy, shoot it with ignis, whole Map will have spores, then use toxic lash and punch a charge atk from kitty into an enemy. Boom whole Map gets dem damage and is dead. Doesnt work really good till enemies are 100+ tho, because ignis multiplicated gas damage will kill everything too fast x.x

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

"Extra damage"

Me, i wouldn't recommend using hikou. Thers a spore limit on enemys and the bonus damage from gas/poison is kinda a joke if you're playing for it. The real damage comes from lash paired with melee.

 

Poison on spores is kinda locked behind a few criterias...namely:

Poison spreads once, calculated off the additive of all poison on the target but only once. 

The spread poison comes with a poison amplified burst. This burst, again, calculated off all poison proccs on the target, is far supperior to the damage the burst limit is able to deal.

You need to set a new poison on the enemy to reset both, spread and burst...

Just going melee with lash gives therefore the best results on he poison mechanic, what adds kinda bigger numbers, next to the definitly accuring bursts and pore max numbers.

 

Grab a good melee weapon, maybe something that can be used offhand (to set stuff that doesn't need much intraction for the spread and reflection, torid bubbles for example) and play for the poison. MUCH better. Especially if you use naramon as well.