DE: Sibear and Vauban Prime just revealed a very important problem in Warframe

[(PSN)PaceBrkr]

I will agree the original 14k Oxium was kinda steep - even for a "nuke everything Corpus" guy like me and my Mag Prime. By the time Vauban Prime was released I had a bit over 8,000 Oxium before crafting the chassis and it had been a while since I did any kamikaze osprey farming until I started mentoring new players recently. (I will admit I'm a bit of a no-lifer but I'm not that hardcore about the game) It's all up to the player how they want to go about it all.

Instant gratification is not how this game stays afloat. That's the pay-to-get-stuff-faster route. You build up what you have. It's what makes you appreciate your gear - the things you put time and effort into. That's the biggest aspect and contribution of Warframe that a player can make right there: time and effort. Long-term goals give a player motivation to work towards whatever sweet item they really wanted. Let's say you've maxed and 6-forma something within a few hours after it was released, thought it wasn't fun to play with anymore after a while and ask the Devs for more stuff... That defeated the purpose of even acquiring and working on it.
~For example: I was adamant about getting Equinox on day 1 (ran that mission 17 times in a row before I got all the parts). That's not exactly a healthy way of going about it either but I knew the score going into it like that. I knew it would take an absurd amount of time and I'd have to gather the materials once I was done and I didn't mind doing that because A) I'm fairly patient and B) I've been playing this long enough to know how most of this works.~

I'd rather have materials and not need to use them than need materials and not have them.

Edited May 19, 2016 by (PS4)VanTX89
Bit of grammar correction.

[StinkyPygmy]

Ahh yes the old "If it takes more then 12 hours to get then it costs too much" issue.

I agree that the occasional weapon/frame comes along with a rather exorbitant cost (like zephs ozium requirements before they buffed oxium drops) but for the most part I can't say very many things in WF have insane resource costs. Thats not to say all your points are invalid, but the ones regarding resource costs: yeah, I've heard it all before and like every other time I've heard the same spiel previously it still pretty much comes down to "if I can't have it now, its too expensive". It make take a month at max for casual player get enough oxium if they have none to begin with and know where to effectively farm it. As far as the cryotic goes well, yeah if you can play 3-4 hours a day and you do a minimum of 10 extractors (not too hard, especially with help) you can have it all in 2-3 days.

 

[HUNDarkTemplar]

Just now, DeFragMe said:

Just because you mentioned draco, i will say something to that. If you countlessly play draco, it is completly NORMAL that you have NO RESSOURCES in the end. Because Draco does not drop oxium, draco does not drop polymerm, draco does not drop cryotic (why should it even).

I dont know if you know how it is to level a weapon normaly , while having fun to farm the materials needed for the next weapon. it actually takes long.

For example, i leveled nova, soma and askiletto (all non prime in the old days) just by farming stuff for the next weapon. in most cases i had enough ressources, but when it comes to the uncomon one there were always a few missing when i reached max level. But only a few, there was not much to farm left.

Same i can say now about sibaris and cryotic. Just level your stuf while doing excevation and you got propably enough in the end. Even better, do corpus excevation while leveling, get some free oxium extra. Sure the oxium will take longer than the cryotic, but at least you dont have to farm ~400 oxium drones for a helios like i did back then.

Did, I say I countlessly play draco? And, No, I dont know how to level up things with having fun. If I want to level things I cant go end game missions, but low leveled with no xp or whatever. I enjoyed It, when I started the game, because progress for me was getting to know the game and doing those low leveled missions on the planets and doing the beginner story missions etc... Now progression for me is collecting and seeing how many items are there nobody has the time to level up weapons one by one with level 10 missions. 

[-Ropefish-]

ah, you know sibear costs like 165 plat right?

 

if you run a few void missions you will most likely have enough prime parts to sell and get that amount in like a day or so. it beats grinding by a long shot cause you always get some prime parts.

[DeFragMe]

4 minutes ago, HUNDarkTemplar said:

Did, I say I countlessly play draco? And, No, I dont know how to level up things with having fun. If I want to level things I cant go end game missions, but low leveled with no xp or whatever. I enjoyed It, when I started the game, because progress for me was getting to know the game and doing those low leveled missions on the planets and doing the beginner story missions etc... Now progression for me is collecting and seeing how many items are there nobody has the time to level up weapons one by one with level 10 missions. 

as i said, you said draco, i never said you said "endless draco" , that was just a generalization of most draco players i know^^

 

but back to topic and your post. The normal mission range is from level 1-50 on planets , oxium and cryotic also drops on europa and pluto. and leveling there takes not that long, most weapons wich are usefull can be leveld fast even there. if you definition from fast does not include a 20min run. i also only have time for 1-4 hours a day to play and i still managed to reach a decent mr-rank by leveling stuff while collecting(still own a few hundred weapons) and never having used draco once for leveling. onlyst grind part was old oxium and prime parts

[Rakosta_Kai]

It seems the running theme of the threads since Vauban's Prime Access was released has been to either:

• Blame it on anyone that might have more than the one complaining
• Blame DE for the inconvenience

So far I have seen hardcore farmers, players that buy plat, and now veterans all get blamed for someone else's hard luck.

I came back for the anniversary... I have 27 nitain and play casually.

7,000 cryotic is 7 missions done to 1k each... Go do the earth excavation. Can't find a group? Then solo it.

I can understand low drop rates... It affects everyone equally.

But now players either want to deride other players for having put more into the game than they themselves did or Blame DE for not making premium content a snap for free to play players to acquire.

...That's nuts.

 

[(XBOX)R3d P01nt]

2 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

But now players either want to deride other players for having put more into the game than they themselves did or Blame DE for not making premium content a snap for free to play players to acquire.

...That's nuts.

 

Aside from the false dichotomy, you do realize that you're deriding your fellow tenno by generalizing like this, don't you?

[SilvaDreams]

8 minutes ago, (XB1)R3d P01nt said:

Aside from the false dichotomy, you do realize that you're deriding your fellow tenno by generalizing like this, don't you?

You like miss using that word don't you?

[.Themis.]

Well, DE is right in making itens hard to obtain, because them it will make you stay engaged in the game for a larger period of time, either they do this, or make it easy to obtain, and them update the game daily with new content, so people have something to do.

Edited May 19, 2016 by shiinigamy

[(XBOX)R3d P01nt]

9 minutes ago, SilvaDreams said:

You like miss using that word don't you?

It's not a misuse mate.  People are presenting 2 options, either everything is fine or the player who complains is whiny and entitled.  Or, in the case I just cited, it was generalizing players into 2 camps, when the vast majority of players will not actually fit in either camp but somewhere in between or even on a different axis.

Not everyone is doing it, but it's happening often enough, and the net result is that people are disparaging others here for having different opinions.  Yeah, I'm playing the "Can't we all just get along" role today, but it gets tiring when we can't have a discussion without people yelling at each other about being whiny and entitled, etc.

 

[(XBOX)R3d P01nt]

1 minute ago, shiinigamy said:

Well, DE is right in making itens hard to obtain, because them it will make you stay engaged in the game for a larger period of time, either they do this, or make it easy to obtain, and them update the game daily with new content, so people have something to do.

I'm not going to argue that some items should be hard to obtain, but how hard is too hard?  Where's the line where it stops keeping players engaged and simply turns them off from the game instead?  And, there's a continuum of values from hard to easy.  It doesn't have to be one or the other.  (Not counting the fact that certain things will be easier for some players than for others due to time constraints, time played, load-outs, availability of sqauds, etc.)

[Rakosta_Kai]

12 minutes ago, (XB1)R3d P01nt said:

Aside from the false dichotomy, you do realize that you're deriding your fellow tenno by generalizing like this, don't you?

A. I don't think you know what a False Dichotomy is. You can go look at the forums since the PA launched and you won't find a third option.  

B. Blaming someone else for your own hardships IS nuts. There's nothing "generalized" about that. By choosing to acquire the items via gameplay, you are directly asserting that you want to earn them.  Why would you expect to not have to work hard to earn the item? ...i.e. "nuts".

[(XBOX)R3d P01nt]

Just now, Padre_Akais said:

A. I don't think you know what a False Dichotomy is. You can go look at the forums since the PA launched and you won't find a third option.  

B. Blaming someone else for your own hardships IS nuts. There's nothing "generalized" about that. By choosing to acquire the items via gameplay, you are directly asserting that you want to earn them.  Why would you expect to not have to work hard to earn the item? ...i.e. "nuts".

I fit neither of those camps, so there is a third option.  Also, that you note that I understand the need to find a third option is tacit admission that I do know what a false dichotomy is.

The generalization comes from putting your fellow Tenno into general categories and pretending that they must think/act/believe that way.  In fact, you're still doing it by assuming that anyone that thinks a build requirement is too high doesn't "expect to ... have to work hard to earn the item."  And, then you're compounding that by throwing insults at them by calling them "nuts."

This is not how a discussion should work.  You're engaging in shaming tactics meant to suppress the opinions of those you disagree with instead of arguing the merits and making a counter case.  In essence you're saying, "Oh, you don't agree with me, then you're nuts and should shut up."  There's no need for that sort of tactic if you really feel you have a better option/opinion/way/whatever.

[T7Alpha]

6 minutes ago, (XB1)R3d P01nt said:

I fit neither of those camps, so there is a third option.  Also, that you note that I understand the need to find a third option is tacit admission that I do know what a false dichotomy is.

The generalization comes from putting your fellow Tenno into general categories and pretending that they must think/act/believe that way.  In fact, you're still doing it by assuming that anyone that thinks a build requirement is too high doesn't "expect to ... have to work hard to earn the item."  And, then you're compounding that by throwing insults at them by calling them "nuts."

This is not how a discussion should work.  You're engaging in shaming tactics meant to suppress the opinions of those you disagree with instead of arguing the merits and making a counter case.  In essence you're saying, "Oh, you don't agree with me, then you're nuts and should shut up."  There's no need for that sort of tactic if you really feel you have a better option/opinion/way/whatever.

You fit the second camp mate and you are massively grinding my gears by keeping this non-issue alive. 
Go back and play your reject-brand console some more.
PC MasterRace.

[DeFragMe]

1 minute ago, T7Alpha said:

You fit the second camp mate and you are massively grinding my gears by keeping this non-issue alive. 
Go back and play your reject-brand console some more.
PC MasterRace.

iam also a pc user and i actually would call the last part racist.. but thats just me.

[T7Alpha]

1 minute ago, DeFragMe said:

iam also a pc user and i actually would call the last part racist.. but thats just me.

Well I also am an old man and I would call you illiterate.  

[Rakosta_Kai]

16 minutes ago, (XB1)R3d P01nt said:

I fit neither of those camps, so there is a third option.  Also, that you note that I understand the need to find a third option is tacit admission that I do know what a false dichotomy is.

The generalization comes from putting your fellow Tenno into general categories and pretending that they must think/act/believe that way.  In fact, you're still doing it by assuming that anyone that thinks a build requirement is too high doesn't "expect to ... have to work hard to earn the item."  And, then you're compounding that by throwing insults at them by calling them "nuts."

This is not how a discussion should work.  You're engaging in shaming tactics meant to suppress the opinions of those you disagree with instead of arguing the merits and making a counter case.  In essence you're saying, "Oh, you don't agree with me, then you're nuts and should shut up."  There's no need for that sort of tactic if you really feel you have a better option/opinion/way/whatever.

Yes.. you do.

You clearly fall into the camp of one who is complaining about how hard the items are to acquire...See my above statement regarding this.

It implies that you have placed a value on the item and the work you are willing to do to get it. Decided it was too much and then decided to complain about it as a means to resolve it.

...Nuts.

If it's too much for you, then don't do it.

FWIW, Saying an idea is nuts and saying a person is nuts are too entirely different things. You, personally, can choose to internalize them, but don't conflate the two in the process. 

Blaming someone else for your hardships makes no sense. There are already players who have acquired these items through gameplay means... What's your excuse?

...That's my point.

In the time you engaged in this conversation you'd be half done getting the crytotic.....AND a Nitain.

 

Oh... for what it's worth... I still don't think you understand what a false dichotomy actually is... The third option would have been to blame oneself for the hardship. Clearly, that's not that path being taken on the forums.  Hence, the lack of an actual third option.

Edited May 19, 2016 by Padre_Akais
false dichotomy

[The_Masked_Man]

I honestly do not have that much problem with the Oxium,you can win/buy a resource booster through daily log in rewards/ market, what makes me mad and many others is the Nitain requirements....20 for vauban really that's crazy. Some cannot play all the time or get on when an alert drops, I just missed an alert because I was busy, and with only having about 4 a day it just makes it worse, sure you can "farm" then now from sabotages but after doing about 30 of them with clan mates and not getting one.....that's not reliable. The Nitain requirement needs to be lower or at least we should be able to use a booster on them, I've checked my phone many times and seen like 2-3 alerts at like 3am, I like sleep sorry....looks like I miss out on the Nitain for that day

Tl;Dr Nitain needs to be more excess able for players, relying on pure rng for them is bad, or atleast make it so we can double them with a booster

[(XBOX)Dr Desflurane]

10 minutes ago, T7Alpha said:

PC MasterRace.

Nothing like a good Hitler reference to really drive your point across.

[T7Alpha]

3 minutes ago, (XB1)Dr Desflurane said:

Nothing like a good Hitler reference to really drive your point across.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Master+Race&utm_source=search-action
You are welcome; for I have saved you from looking idiotic again in the future.

Edited May 19, 2016 by T7Alpha

[CaliburxZero]

16 minutes ago, T7Alpha said:

You fit the second camp mate and you are massively grinding my gears by keeping this non-issue alive. 
Go back and play your reject-brand console some more.
PC MasterRace.

I was curious on opinions of both sides of this argument but I gotta say... you don't have to agree with what people say, but this is just outright toxic behavior.

[.Themis.]

28 minutes ago, (XB1)R3d P01nt said:

I'm not going to argue that some items should be hard to obtain, but how hard is too hard?  Where's the line where it stops keeping players engaged and simply turns them off from the game instead?  And, there's a continuum of values from hard to easy.  It doesn't have to be one or the other.  (Not counting the fact that certain things will be easier for some players than for others due to time constraints, time played, load-outs, availability of sqauds, etc.)

To be honest, i don't think there is a single thing that is too hard to obtain in Warframe, maybe its just me being used to games that lock content behind huge grind/farm/RNG wall.
 On another note: Isn't that ok ? do you think you should be on equal level of progress when you play lets say 2~3 hours per day, against someone that play 7 hours per day ? its just logical that people who play more the game, can obtain stuff easier because they already have the resources, what i think is realy wrong, is locking content by making it something like "only one run per day" and try to get players that play less, in equal grounds with players that spend all day in the game, if you play more, you should be rewarded for that, and that is it.

[(XBOX)R3d P01nt]

7 minutes ago, T7Alpha said:

You fit the second camp mate and you are massively grinding my gears by keeping this non-issue alive. 

I do?  That's news to me, considering I've said quite a few times that I don't.  Anyway, I won't be replying to you on this anymore, so have the last word.

4 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

Yes.. you do.

You clearly fall into the camp of one who is complaining about how hard the items are to acquire...See my above statement regarding this.

It implies that you have placed a value on the item and the work you are willing to do to get it. Decided it was too much and then decided to complain about it as a means to resolve it.

...Nuts.

If it's too much for you, then don't do it.

No, I don't.  I do think some items have mat requirements that are too high, but in no way did I say that I want everything to be a snap to acquire.  That's something you made up, because it fits your agenda and your preconceived notions of putting people into generalized groups.  30K for the Sibear is too much IMO, but I never advocated that it be given to me.  I don't know what the proper amount should be, but again, that's not the same as claiming that it should be given to me.  Why do you not understand that?  (Note, if you look at other interactions I've had on this thread, I've even talked about how more powerful weapons should have higher mat costs, but hey, what's nuance when you can just put me in a box and then ignore me?)

Secondly, speaking up and giving my opinion is nuts?  If no one ever gave any feedback, how would DE know what the player base is thinking?  If we all just sit down and shut up, we'll continue to get rising material costs, because no one is telling DE their opinion on the matter.

Quote

FWIW, Saying an idea is nuts and saying a person is nuts are too entirely different things. You, personally, can choose to internalize them, but don't conflate the two in the process. 

That's true.  I still feel like you're skirting the line when it's coupled with the generalizations that you're engaging in, however.

Quote

Blaming someone else for your hardships makes no sense. There are already players who have acquired these items through gameplay means... What's your excuse?

...That's my point.

Good for them.  No, really, I'm glad for them.  I don't particularly like doing excavations, so being forced into a game mode that isn't my cup of tea is not something I've been doing, hence I don't have 1 million cryotic sitting around.  If cryotic were obtainable other ways, we probably wouldn't be having this conversation (or at least this part of the conversation).  I may still choose to farm the cryotic (although I spent quite a bit on Fomorian Disruptors and will now spedn 9k on Vauban Prime) or I might decide to buy it from the market if I get a discount.

Either way, I get your point loud and clear.  You don't seem to get mine (of which there are quite a few).  Please don't generalize and deride other tenno for having different opinions from you (and deride them in the process, which is a bit hypocritical, don't you think?)  Also, remember that your game experiences are not the arbiter of everyone's game experience.  That you might have time to sit and farm endlessly doesn't mean that everyone does.  Lastly, don't use shaming tactics to try and suppress the opinions of others.  Again, if your opinions and arguments can stand on their own merit, you shouldn't need to engage in such tactics.

Quote

In the time you engaged in this conversation you'd be half done getting the crytotic.....AND a Nitain.

That's simply not true, and you know it.

[-Ropefish-]

1 hour ago, Reedfish said:

ah, you know sibear costs like 165 plat right?

 

if you run a few void missions you will most likely have enough prime parts to sell and get that amount in like a day or so. it beats grinding by a long shot cause you always get some prime parts.

just going to quote myself so peeps can see what is said .p.

[(PSN)obsidiancurse]

Isn't this whole thread a false premise? The game is essentially a "loot 'em up", albeit hidden behind an extremely attractive and engaging front end. Given that, there would be a problem if there wasn't a disparity between vets and newbies. A player of 3 years should have a lot more resources than a player of 3 days/weeks/months. It's the nature of the beast.

newbies have a thousand and one things to learn/acquire/build, worrying about just the latest weapon/frame is like a pre-schooler worrying about their mortgage deposit, it's not something that need concern them right now.