Wave 100 On Outer Terminus (Tcpi)

[TorrentWolf]

I'm impressed, I've never gotten past wave 35 but then I've always had to wing it with a completely random pug that never had the mandatory 3 of Frost, Nyx and Vauban for defense.

 

What were the rewards like?

To be fair, Blacksteel Brotherhood did 80 waves with Trinity, Nyx, Rhino and Frost; so it is possible to do this with slightly modified line-ups.

Rewards weren't really our objective, so nothing special there. I didn't document everything prior to wave 75 simply to cut down on the number of unnecessary screenshots in the album (and avoid having to prune/sort my screenshots if we were to fail before 75, which happened the run before this one). But they were mostly Tier 2 keys and fusion cores, perhaps some electric damage mods and a Rare 0 Core.

Aside from that, we got about 100 mods from drops... there was another huge reward we received but we're pretty sure it's a bug and I won't release that information to the public for fear that people will exploit it (we're currently trying to contact DE to confirm the bug and possibly get it fixed).

 

Will you try doing it with different frames? Like Loki or Ash maybe. I would love to see it.

For now, no. We simply wanted to post a wave 100 at this point, so we took the most optimal line-up. 

Ash would be extremely fun to play with during the earlier waves but he doesn't bring enough to the table to make doing this very feasible.

The Decoy "nerf" for Loki effectively puts him in the same boat as Ash; but to be fair, that "exploit" was kinda overpowered. Not to mention, Decoys are killed nearly instantly on the higher waves.

Someone issued a challenge earlier in the thread and suggested we use a very interesting line-up... but I think we're done with defense until someone else beats our score. Perhaps we'll do a Grineer 100 someday soon.

[Ayalin]

I'm glad you added that last part because this actually 

was very challenging. (I suspect that's why not many, if any, people have reached wave 100 on Corpus defense.)

Frost is required but it's not an easy job. A single mistake on the timing and you lose... that might not seem like much but when you've been doing it for 4 hours, it's really easy to make one.

 

Well yeah of course, I am pretty sure you are a good team and it is not so easy to go that far, but my main concern is that this is not a good difficulty. This is the exact same difficulty as "writing a thousand of times the same sentence on a paper without doing any single scratch". 

 

Game is still in beta so it is "okay" but they really need to add more ennemy mechanics in the nearest future possible.

Edited June 16, 2013 by Ayalin

[Verazix]

First of all, I'd like to say congratulations on having the tenacity to actually reach such a high wave. I imagine it was quite trying on your patience, attention span, and your bladder. It definitely takes a lot of time, and even if others are going to come in and say "lolopframes" I doubt the majority of players would ever be able to have even the patience for this. I also am surprised you used a Rhino over a Trinity, would have made it where you could nearly endlessly go up in waves, especially with the insanity that is Tesla spam.

I'm sure it's been done before, I just haven't seen it. So at this point, we'll just wait and twiddle our thumbs while someone else challenges our current score.

We could have easily gone much farther than we did but chose to end it at 100 for the sake of time; we made 3 earlier attempts and spent at least 10-hours until we finally reached our goal.

These two lines show your ego, which while not the worst I've seen, is definitely uncalled for and unnecessary. It's great you did what you did, it's great you want a pat on the back (which I gave you and recognize you for), but it's pointless to want to pretend you're better than anyone else (even if you are). It does nothing but alienate you and those you worked with to achieve this, and feeds flames that would have already been caused by taking this from a "self brag post" to an "obvious self bragging post." When you come to get a well deserved pat on the back, don't act like a king. We're all fellow players here and there's no reason to look down on anyone else because they aren't as "accomplished" as you. Everyone's goals and enjoyment is different, and everyone's time constraints, attention spans, and player skills will be different as well. This isn't a competition, it's a cooperative game to enjoy ourselves on.

On another note, this also shows how mandatory Snow Globe and Chaos are for higher level waves and how they trivialize lower level waves. These two abilities (and Sonar to a similar extent) should probably be heavily looked into if Defense Missions are expanded upon as the "end game" of Warframe.

[LunarWind]

Aside from that, we got about 100 mods from drops... there was another huge reward we received but we're pretty sure it's a bug and I won't release that information to the public for fear that people will exploit it (we're currently trying to contact DE to confirm the bug and possibly get it fixed).

 

???

Well now I'm interested.

It's got to be a pretty sweet pot of honey if even the self proclaimed "Reddit Clan" won't brag about getting it.

 

That said, most people are liking the "ignore it" comment because of your clan name.

 

Both of those said, HOLY CRAP 100 WAVES!

Damn fine work, the lot of you. Taking Ogris for maximum ammo efficiency was brilliant.

[TorrentWolf]

First of all, I'd like to say congratulations on having the tenacity to actually reach such a high wave. I imagine it was quite trying on your patience, attention span, and your bladder. It definitely takes a lot of time, and even if others are going to come in and say "lolopframes" I doubt the majority of players would ever be able to have even the patience for this. I also am surprised you used a Rhino over a Trinity, would have made it where you could nearly endlessly go up in waves, especially with the insanity that is Tesla spam.

These two lines show your ego, which while not the worst I've seen, is definitely uncalled for and unnecessary. It's great you did what you did, it's great you want a pat on the back (which I gave you and recognize you for), but it's pointless to want to pretend you're better than anyone else (even if you are). It does nothing but alienate you and those you worked with to achieve this, and feeds flames that would have already been caused by taking this from a "self brag post" to an "obvious self bragging post." When you come to get a well deserved pat on the back, don't act like a king. We're all fellow players here and there's no reason to look down on anyone else because they aren't as "accomplished" as you. Everyone's goals and enjoyment is different, and everyone's time constraints, attention spans, and player skills will be different as well. This isn't a competition, it's a cooperative game to enjoy ourselves on.

On another note, this also shows how mandatory Snow Globe and Chaos are for higher level waves and how they trivialize lower level waves. These two abilities (and Sonar to a similar extent) should probably be heavily looked into if Defense Missions are expanded upon as the "end game" of Warframe.

I'm not entirely certain how my previous posts were egotistical, I was simply responding to the questions people asked.

Blacksteel Brotherhood set a bar with their wave 80 Corpus run and we wanted to beat it, so we did. Now it's up to someone else to see our wave 100 and challenge themselves to surpass us. I'm not looking down on others, I'm hoping others will look up to us (as we did with BSB) and see our achievements and be inspired to do better than we did.

"We could have gone farther" wasn't bragging, it was an explanation as to why we stopped at 100 (aside from it being our goal).

We're not kings, we're just people who wanted to share our achievements with the rest of the community.

I'm not disagreeing with your last paragraph, I would just like to see the other Warframes being usable in Endless Defense. Snow Globe, Chaos and Bastille don't really need a nerf... everything else just needs a bit of a buff. Of course, this is all just personal opinion.

Thanks for the pat on the back, regardless. ^^

 

???

Well now I'm interested.

It's got to be a pretty sweet pot of honey if even the self proclaimed "Reddit Clan" won't brag about getting it.

 

That said, most people are liking the "ignore it" comment because of your clan name.

 

Both of those said, HOLY CRAP 100 WAVES!

Damn fine work, the lot of you. Taking Ogris for maximum ammo efficiency was brilliant.

The "ignored" comment was clever, I'll give him that. =D

I'm only withholding the information on the "bug" because I don't want to see people exploiting it (civic responsibility of beta testing)... if it turns out to be a feature (which I highly doubt) we'll probably explain it better. I only mentioned it because, to us, it was a very nice reward, even if we don't get to keep it. Now that I think about it, I shouldn't have even brought it up.

Thanks for the support!

Edited June 16, 2013 by TorrentWolf

[Strudul]

I'm only withholding the information on the "bug" because I don't want to see people exploiting it (civic responsibility of beta testing)... if it turns out to be a feature (which I highly doubt) we'll probably explain it better. I only mentioned it because, to us, it was a very nice reward, even if we don't get to keep it. Now that I think about it, I shouldn't have even brought it up.

STAHP!

 

The curiosity is killing me >_<

[Verazix]

TorrentWolf, on 16 Jun 2013 - 3:14 PM, said:

I'm not entirely certain how my previous posts were egotistical, I was simply responding to the questions people asked.

Not many serious players would question why you quit after 10+ hours, so I can't help but see it as "Oh it wasn't that hard and we could keep going." and the "challenge" feeling you put off of "if anyone beats us we'll go higher." It just seems like you're trying too hard to either push aside trolls (which I don't blame you for in the slightest, if that's your reasoning), or you're trying to justify to us that you could go higher but just chose not to.

Either way, I'm glad you didn't take my post as just a large, inflammatory pile of refuse akin to half the other posts in this thread. Perhaps I'm just too used to seeing the bad in people after all this time on the Internet as an old fogey like myself.

TorrentWolf, on 16 Jun 2013 - 3:14 PM, said:

I'm not disagreeing with your last paragraph, I would just like to see the other Warframes being usable in Endless Defense. Snow Globe, Chaos and Bastille don't really need a nerf... everything else just needs a bit of a buff. Of course, this is all just personal opinion.

To play Devil's Advocate a bit...

You believe a 30+ second AOE stun/AOE shield with infinite health is a good thing to balance around? Chaos is no better. It takes AI which normally have four to five targets, nine at most (if four Saryn/Loki, but that is highly unlikely), and gives them a nigh infinite amount of targets for 20 seconds, per cast, at the cost of 58~ energy (with Streamline). If we gave everyone in the game abilities on par with that, we'd end up with a game so chock full of CC we might as well call the game World of Warframe. Should they be nerfed? I'd rather they not, and I'd rather leave defense missions as a form of side game that those particular frames just end up overpowered in. Currently, there's no real point to going into the higher waves, so there's no reason to balance around it.

[TorrentWolf]

Not many serious players would question why you quit after 10+ hours, so I can't help but see it as "Oh it wasn't that hard and we could keep going." and the "challenge" feeling you put off of "if anyone beats us we'll go higher." It just seems like you're trying too hard to either push aside trolls (which I don't blame you for in the slightest, if that's your reasoning), or you're trying to justify to us that you could go higher but just chose not to.

Either way, I'm glad you didn't take my post as just a large, inflammatory pile of refuse akin to half the other posts in this thread. Perhaps I'm just too used to seeing the bad in people after all this time on the Internet as an old fogey like myself.

I suppose you're right. I didn't really think of it that way, although I'm sure you can see now that I wasn't trying to be a braggart. It was definitely not my intention to belittle other players.

You started off by congratulating us and recognizing how much time had to be put into such an endeavor, for that you earned my respect. The rest of your post rustled my jimmies a bit but only because it bruised my pride. We all have a bit of an ego to protect. =)

 

 

You believe a 30+ second AOE stun/AOE shield with infinite health is a good thing to balance around? Chaos is no better. It takes AI which normally have four to five targets, nine at most (if four Saryn/Loki, but that is highly unlikely), and gives them a nigh infinite amount of targets for 20 seconds, per cast, at the cost of 58~ energy (with Streamline). If we gave everyone in the game abilities on par with that, we'd end up with a game so chock full of CC we might as well call the game World of Warframe. Should they be nerfed? I'd rather they not, and I'd rather leave defense missions as a form of side game that those particular frames just end up overpowered in. Currently, there's no real point to going into the higher waves, so there's no reason to balance around it.

I understand where you are coming from on this, honestly, I do.

I don't particularly want to have a balance discussion in this thread (though I'm all for it).

It just comes down to the "cheese factor" that we've heard about so often during our high-wave defense runs. If we run with overpowered frames and weapons to complete the task, we've taken the "easy route" and it somehow that negates the accomplishment; yet if we try with the "balanced" frames, we cannot go beyond a certain point. It's brutal but it's what we have to work with.

Honestly, I think we just utilized the most efficient tools at our disposal but not everyone agrees with us.

Edited June 16, 2013 by TorrentWolf

[gopher]

buy ogris and find it out yourself...........

I would love too, but DE hates my small clan.

[Verazix]

I suppose you're right. I didn't really think of it that way, although I'm sure you can see now that I wasn't trying to be a braggart. It was definitely not my intention to belittle other players.

You started off by congratulating us and recognizing how much time had to be put into such an endeavor, for that you earned my respect. The rest of your post rustled my jimmies a bit but only because it bruised my pride. We all have a bit of an ego to protect. =)

It's good to have an ego, it's just when we put it on display (I say we, because I do it too XD) that we end up causing ourselves problem. Either way, I probably also blew that out of proportion, so my apologies if it came off as overbearing.

I understand where you are coming from on this, honestly, I do.

I don't particularly want to have a balance discussion in this thread (though I'm all for it).

It just comes down to the "cheese factor" that we've heard about so often during our high-wave defense runs. If we run with overpowered frames and weapons to complete the task, we've taken the "easy route" and it somehow that negates the accomplishment; yet if we try with the "balanced" frames, we cannot go beyond a certain point. It's brutal but it's what we have to work with.

Honestly, I think we just utilized the most efficient tools at our disposal but not everyone agrees with us.

It's sad isn't it? If you fail, you're bad. If you succeed, you cheesed it and/or are still bad. Remember, those kinds of people are -always- better than you, even if they've never been that far, can't get that far, and most likely never will get that far. It's either because their team is terrible, they don't care enough, or that they're too high for that. After all, they're God's gift to gaming, and they could never be just talking out of the wrong end.

To relate some, I don't think people realize how infuriating it is to get into a 50+ wave, let one Shockwave MOA by, and have it one shot your cryopod with a single stomp. Or how if a Fusion MOA lets loose his Drone it'll proceed to pull out it's death ray of doom and instantly gib anyone out of the globe for any reason, or worse yet, fly into the globe and destroy everyone/everything in mere seconds. Either that, or they could obviously do that too, only better ;)

[Mhak]

To relate some, I don't think people realize how infuriating it is to get into a 50+ wave, let one Shockwave MOA by, and have it one shot your cryopod with a single stomp. Or how if a Fusion MOA lets loose his Drone it'll proceed to pull out it's death ray of doom and instantly gib anyone out of the globe for any reason, or worse yet, fly into the globe and destroy everyone/everything in mere seconds. 

O_o

 

Damn...that does sound frustrating. Personally I hate those god damned rail MOAs more than anything, way too many times have I stepped outside the snow globe only to instantly targeted by a couple rail MOAs and dropped like a fly. But at least I can be revived, I've yet to see anything one-shot the cryopod, although that's because I've never been past wave 35.

 

I imagine high level infested defense must also be insanely challenging; letting a single toxic ancient near the cryopod also probably means instant fail at high levels.

[Verazix]

O_o

 

Damn...that does sound frustrating. Personally I hate those god damned rail MOAs more than anything, way too many times have I stepped outside the snow globe only to instantly targeted by a couple rail MOAs and dropped like a fly. But at least I can be revived, I've yet to see anything one-shot the cryopod, although that's because I've never been past wave 35.

 

I imagine high level infested defense must also be insanely challenging; letting a single toxic ancient near the cryopod also probably means instant fail at high levels.

Honestly Infested missions are far more foolproof than Corpus ones, which is why you consistently see them reached higher and higher, especially with the addition of Vauban. Throw up a Bastille or two, and you can keep anything and everything away from the cryopod indefinitely. With a Trinity/Vauban/Saryn/Saryn (or replace Saryn with Ember) you could probably spam ultimates and Bastille enough to make it indefinitely high without running out of ammo just due to the power of Energy Siphon and Energy Vampire. It's probably safer to run two Vaubans though.

[TorrentWolf]

Honestly Infested missions are far more foolproof than Corpus ones, which is why you consistently see them reached higher and higher, especially with the addition of Vauban. Throw up a Bastille or two, and you can keep anything and everything away from the cryopod indefinitely. With a Trinity/Vauban/Saryn/Saryn (or replace Saryn with Ember) you could probably spam ultimates and Bastille enough to make it indefinitely high without running out of ammo just due to the power of Energy Siphon and Energy Vampire. It's probably safer to run two Vaubans though.

We ran two Vauban for our 100 wave Infested defense and a lot of people were unimpressed by it because of how easy it was.

That was one of the reasons we were so adamant about getting to 100 on Corpus, even if we still felt like we accomplished something in doing Infested.

It's still fun if you have the time. =)

 

[Mhak]

Be sure to keep us posted if you do a Grineer. I haven't even bothered to unlock the high level Grineer defense missions because I hate them so much. Especially the map with the big power core in the center where they attack from all sides, man that's a *@##&#036; to defend.

[TorrentWolf]

Be sure to keep us posted if you do a Grineer. I haven't even bothered to unlock the high level Grineer defense missions because I hate them so much. Especially the map with the big power core in the center where they attack from all sides, man that's a $#*(@ to defend.

We really dislike the power core map, too. It's too wide open for our taste and the size of the core makes defending it really difficult (takes two snow globes to protect, roller balls stick to it and destroy it easily). Although, I will admit that it makes high mobility frames such as Ash and Excalibur far more appealing than the standard "cheese" composition. =D

Conversely, the new map is a great addition but it feels a bit buggy still. If we do end up doing a Grineer defense to 100, it will likely be on that map.

We talked it over today and we're currently gearing up for the Void Defense. I realize that it's not out yet but that's the goal on our horizon. Will definitely post here if we manage to pull it off!

Edited June 16, 2013 by TorrentWolf

[Verazix]

We really dislike the power core map, too. It's too wide open for our taste and the size of the core makes defending it really difficult (takes two snow globes to protect, roller balls stick to it and destroy it easily).

I think they fixed the constant roller hits, we were doing Casta the other day and a roller hit it and could barely dent the shield of the core. Also, a max stretch mod should fix your Snow Globe woes, albeit the dang thing is still awkward to land perfectly on, and you end up with an area they can walk into fairly easily (honestly it's probably best to use one a couple ranks lower, but that's annoying to test and we tend to stay away from Grineer defenses since waves takes forever).

[TorrentWolf]

I think they fixed the constant roller hits, we were doing Casta the other day and a roller hit it and could barely dent the shield of the core. Also, a max stretch mod should fix your Snow Globe woes, albeit the dang thing is still awkward to land perfectly on, and you end up with an area they can walk into fairly easily (honestly it's probably best to use one a couple ranks lower, but that's annoying to test and we tend to stay away from Grineer defenses since waves takes forever).

And we're in agreement, they take far too long. It's a serious issue when high-wave defense already take extremely long and we used the fastest methods we could find. I'm all for investing some weekend hours into the game but that just seems rather insane. If the Grineer didn't respawn mid-wave through doors you've already cleared, it might not be so bad; I'd rather fight a ton of enemies at once than a few at a time and run for an age to get to more.

Still, even with the minor bugs in the new map, it seems like a far better candidate for wave 100. Although, we've already noticed that Nyx isn't as broken there so it might be fun to include a different Warframe on the roster.

[blueVIP]

Wow just wow 

 

Awesome job guys and very imprasive 

 

100 freaken waves 

 

Good work 

[kLai]

Props for reaching 100!

That said, this is the kind of issue I have with defense and the exponential scaling. At level 100, level 600~ mobs...don't even make sense if the highest you can go in the current system is 57~ at Pluto. I honestly thought they'd have toned down the level while slightly upping the hp, attack and armour on each level as well as spawn numbers, rather than these rediculous jumps every 5 levels.

It's kind of odd seeing a game with the max level of 30, and be fighting level 600 mobs. Afaik, I don't think any game has level 600 mobs :/ ... seems distant from the general core of the game.

Edited June 17, 2013 by kLai

[Feam]

I'm a tad confused and I can't see anyone else asking...

Why did you fail the mission? I thought you meant that you Extracted at 100.

I suppose it doesn't really matter at all right now, but still. Would've been more of a trophy to have your insane Match Summary picture with "Mission Complete" wouldn't it?

[TorrentWolf]

I'm a tad confused and I can't see anyone else asking...

Why did you fail the mission? I thought you meant that you Extracted at 100.

I suppose it doesn't really matter at all right now, but still. Would've been more of a trophy to have your insane Match Summary picture with "Mission Complete" wouldn't it?

I'm glad someone noticed that. =D

We were actually testing a few things in the process doing the defense mission, one of our tests required us to fail. So we reached Wave 100, saw the reward, and clicked "Battle" and stood off to the side to let the pod be attacked immediately. We also wanted to get a few group screenshots and we didn't feel like risking losing prior to finishing the wave (even though we had Mind Control and Bastille to perma-capture an enemy). We wanted a shot without Snow Globe up and without it, a random, unforeseen Crewman could have one-shot the pod while we were posing for the camera.

 

While a trophy "success" screenie would have been nice, there's nothing in the aftermath report that indicates how many waves you reached. Nor is there a ladder system in place (to my knowledge) that records successful waves. So, in the end, it didn't matter if we left at 100 or "failed" on 101.

I am surprised no one asked about that sooner.

Expect a "Success" screenshot on our next Wave 100 completion (Void!)

[Kalenath]

That...is...

 

Wow. You and your group have my admiration. Can you say exactly how long it took you to reach wave 100?

 

My small clan has been talking about trying this, but we haven't got the ideal mix of warframes yet. Working on that.

 

Also no Ogris yet. Soon I hope.

Edited June 17, 2013 by Kalenath

[Feam]

I am surprised no one asked about that sooner.

Expect a "Success" screenshot on our next Wave 100 completion (Void!)

I see! Thanks for clearing that up.

Have fun in the upcoming Void Defense! (You should know that by wave 100 they will all be at about level 800+ though, and a combination of Heavy Gunners + Healing Ancients + Fusion Moas is simply bad freaking news! Good luck!)

[Strudul]

I see! Thanks for clearing that up.

Have fun in the upcoming Void Defense! (You should know that by wave 100 they will all be at about level 800+ though, and a combination of Heavy Gunners + Healing Ancients + Fusion Moas is simply bad freaking news! Good luck!)

Pfft, they are nothing compared to toxics, disruptors, railguns, shockwaves and rollers.

Edited June 17, 2013 by Strudul

[TorrentWolf]

Wow. You and your group have my admiration. Can you say exactly how long it took you to reach wave 100?

It took us around 4-hours to reach 100, though we had been trying for 6-hours prior to starting the completion run.

Our host got disconnected on the first run at wave 15, no biggie.
Then we got migrated again on the second attempt at around 40-ish.
Third run was failed at wave 73 when a very, very sneaky Fusion MOA managed to slip by us all and destroy the pod. (This was before we brought Vauban; we honestly have no idea how he got there.)

We almost lost it on wave 89 on the completion run when both Mentat and myself managed to simultaneously blow ourselves up, while Xerf was punted a mile off the platform by a Shockwave MOA. However, we managed to recover and things ran much smoother after that. Much of this could have been avoided if I actually forma'd my Nyx and brought Vitality (I didn't because I was only considering enemies as threats, which one-shot you at higher waves regardless of your shields/health/armor... little did I know that I'm my own worst enemy, this explains the 22 deaths.) Edited June 17, 2013 by TorrentWolf