Spy missions are SO unforgiving!!

[Tenno29543]

I was trying to do the moon spies another way but i got mad because every time i hit the lasers i fail and gotta restart the mission..

That's not fair at all, especially if you're a new player and you're trying to learn the spy rooms.

There should be a option to practice the rooms before you go and do the real thing so that people can experiment the spy rooms and explore them without worrying about failing it and go through the trouble of restarting the mission.

Of course, it would make sense that its only available solo mode and you don't get any rewards for doing the practice missions.

This way, new players or players new to spy would have a better time trying to get their spy skills straight.

Edited June 10, 2016 by BigBlackCook

[Terraziel]

Just checking but you do know you can fail a vault without failing the mission overall right? All the talk of restarting after one mistake makes me wonder.

That said in my mind the point of the difficulty of the Moon vaults, though you can extend the view to some of the other vaults, is to convince you that there is another way, my concern would be that practice runs would make people more likely to keep slamming their heads against the wrong route rather than looking for the correct one. The way people talk about spy missions I suspect a fair amount of people do this already, they don't need encouragement. Additionally it's important that it is not an instant failure for touching a beam, the timer gives you time for exploration even if it does end in a failure.

As far as new players being eased in to them, the spy missions do that pretty well already, as you progress from the low level to high level spy missions the number of shortcuts gets fewer and the number of security measures gets higher, assuming you've worked your way up through them the progression is fairly smooth. By the time you are playing the moon spy missions you should already be in the correct mind set for dealing with them, as an example if you get to the vault with all the wall latch pads and don't instantly look for a better route then you haven't been paying attention.

[Takkov]

In my opinion, the moon spy missions are some of the easiest in the game,for the most part, you dont have to look for sensors or similar and can just rush through them, only vault c gets a bit annoying over time, because its so long and if you activate the time in the beginning, you wont make it.

But like everyone I just learned how to do them and you can always bring ciphers if you dont like the hacking, so just give it some more time

[Soketsu]

practice on lower spy mission, then try high spy level mission without any item, try 3 perfect extraction and i think you will manage this one too ;)

[(PSN)Rakiokon]

Here:

Shows at least one route through each of the 3 Moon vaults (spoiler, it's the same 3 vaults every time you run the mission).  Don't have Limbo?  You can still run these routes with any other frame.  Just take your time, and look before you leap, so to speak.  The vaults are not timed.  Even the one that closes the doors on you has failsafes to allow you to backtrack, if you aren't fast enough to make the door.

[Terraziel]

I feel the need to point out that video shows the wrong the way to get through pretty much all of them, and I would recommend ignoring it. I guarantee you there are much better ways that don't involve needing to be able to ignore the lasers.

 

[(PSN)FriendSharkey]

I'd suggest on failure, what you do is run the vault over while it's in its failed state. You can then figure out the pattern. It's more a maze than a security system. On the first go, yes it's incredibly hard. But once you establish the motions, patterns, where everything is at ...you'll find the Moon Spy missions are actually quite fun. 

Everyone says use a Limbo, but if you have an Ivara you'll see these Moon Vaults were designed around her ability kit. All you need is a good silenced secondary that can one shot the sentries and plenty of rip line. 

Edited June 11, 2016 by (PS4)FriendSharkey

[TheScytale]

19 minutes ago, (PS4)FriendSharkey said:

Everyone says use a Limbo, but if you have an Ivara you'll see these Moon Vaults were designed around her ability kit. All you need is a good silenced secondary that can one shot the sentries and plenty of rip line. 

I'd say Wukong. I've ran the mission with all the spy-ish frames, and Wukong was the best alternative because of his cloud walker. 

But even without Spy frames, the moon spies can be easily done, providing you're careful.

What I actually suggest, OP, is another lower tier Moon Spy node with bad rewards, but fewer lasers to get used to the vaults. Getting 1000 lasers all at once at the first mission is what makes moon spies intimidating.

[Tenno29543]

22 hours ago, Terraziel said:

Just checking but you do know you can fail a vault without failing the mission overall right? All the talk of restarting after one mistake makes me wonder.

That said in my mind the point of the difficulty of the Moon vaults, though you can extend the view to some of the other vaults, is to convince you that there is another way, my concern would be that practice runs would make people more likely to keep slamming their heads against the wrong route rather than looking for the correct one. The way people talk about spy missions I suspect a fair amount of people do this already, they don't need encouragement. Additionally it's important that it is not an instant failure for touching a beam, the timer gives you time for exploration even if it does end in a failure.

As far as new players being eased in to them, the spy missions do that pretty well already, as you progress from the low level to high level spy missions the number of shortcuts gets fewer and the number of security measures gets higher, assuming you've worked your way up through them the progression is fairly smooth. By the time you are playing the moon spy missions you should already be in the correct mind set for dealing with them, as an example if you get to the vault with all the wall latch pads and don't instantly look for a better route then you haven't been paying attention.

yeah you dont insta fail but the ticking timer is too short to find a new way lol, i ALWAYS  solo spy missions because i know that other people will either rush right into the lasers and don't care or don't know how to do them

[TheScytale]

Just now, BigBlackCook said:

yeah you dont insta fail but the ticking timer is too short to find a new way lol, i ALWAYS  solo spy missions because i know that other people will either rush right into the lasers and don't care or don't know how to do them

Use Liset's Air Support too. It even works in Sorties.

[Tenno29543]

4 hours ago, TheScytale said:

I'd say Wukong. I've ran the mission with all the spy-ish frames, and Wukong was the best alternative because of his cloud walker. 

But even without Spy frames, the moon spies can be easily done, providing you're careful.

What I actually suggest, OP, is another lower tier Moon Spy node with bad rewards, but fewer lasers to get used to the vaults. Getting 1000 lasers all at once at the first mission is what makes moon spies intimidating.

the 1 with the wall hang pads are hard, i fail a lot at them and yes i know you can do it another way but i wanna practice the hard way..

[Tenno29543]

2 hours ago, TheScytale said:

Use Liset's Air Support too. It even works in Sorties.

Last time i checked.. it doesn't reset the timer

[TheScytale]

1 minute ago, BigBlackCook said:

Last time i checked.. it doesn't reset the timer

No, but it gives a ~15 seconds of breathing room. It saved me numerous times.

[Tenno29543]

2 hours ago, TheScytale said:

No, but it gives a ~15 seconds of breathing room. It saved me numerous times.

o! didn't know that, thanks for the info

[BlackCoMerc]

21 hours ago, BigBlackCook said:

I was trying to do the moon spies another way but i got mad because every time i hit the lasers i fail and gotta restart the mission..

That's not fair at all, especially if you're a new player and you're trying to learn the spy rooms.

There should be a option to practice the rooms before you go and do the real thing so that people can experiment the spy rooms and explore them without worrying about failing it and go through the trouble of restarting the mission.

Of course, it would make sense that its only available solo mode and you don't get any rewards for doing the practice missions.

This way, new players or players new to spy would have a better time trying to get their spy skills straight.

The moon Spy missions are awful. Terrible, convoluted puzzles with inadequate tools; lackluster, diluted drop lists, all part of a map designed by someone under the erroneous belief that Warframe features controls that are far tighter and more precise than they in fact are.

[Enno69]

On 11/06/2016 at 7:44 PM, BlackCoMerc said:

 all part of a map designed by someone under the erroneous belief that Warframe features controls that are far tighter and more precise than they in fact are.

Adding some freshness into the spy mode was a good idea, but you're spot on at least for that mirror-latching section. I almost broke my keyboard on this insanity last night. Need some more testing, apparently there are multiple routes to each vault ?

Edited June 12, 2016 by Enno69

[Terraziel]

3 hours ago, Enno69 said:

Adding some freshness into the spy mode was a good idea, but you're spot on at least for that mirror-latching vault. I almost broke my keyboard on this insanity last night. Need some more testing, apparently there are multiple routes to each vault ?

Yeah, there are at least different routes to each vault, so you don't need to do any of the wall-latching, which i'm not even going to pretend to defend, whilst it is doable, as others have noted the controls don't really stand up to the challenge, again luckily you don't need to do any of it, all you really need to able to do is bullet jump.

19 hours ago, BlackCoMerc said:

The moon Spy missions are awful. Terrible, convoluted puzzles with inadequate tools; lackluster, diluted drop lists, all part of a map designed by someone under the erroneous belief that Warframe features controls that are far tighter and more precise than they in fact are.

I have to wonder what you think of the other spy missions because done properly the moon ones are definitely easier than some of the "normal" ones, or are at least far more allowing for patience and error. The corpus ones with a fetish for moving green lasers come to mind.