[Saryn] Could someone explain Toxin/Molt/Spores?

[Chroia]

Previously titled: [Not sure if bug] Is something screwy (known to be) going on with Saryn/Molt/Spore interactions?
But ButterLutter's reply deserves better discovery for anyone else needing some 'splainin'.

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tl;dr - Spore doesn't seem to inherit any toxin damage. Enemies can only have 1 single Spores DoT on them at any given time.

Am I misunderstanding how Spores is supposed to work?

* Does its own damage, applies spores to target.
* If the target suffers a Toxin proc, is loses a spore and adds a spore to anyone in range which adds the Toxin proc's damage to its DoT.

I'm seeing identical numbers with a maxed out Torid as with an unmodded one, as with Venom Lash + a Karyst, as with Venom Lash + any other weapon. Identical numbers across the board.

Each application of Spores does its damage, but that's it. DoT is the same, same duration and same # of ticks, for the same damage, regardless of what procced it or how many spores were popped.

This is all solo (host) in the Simulacrum. No difference if the initial spores are on the Molt or on an enemy.

Edited June 22, 2016 by Chroia
Edited title for shameless plug

[ButterLutter]

There seems to be some misinformation here, so i am going to take my time to go through all of this bit by bit.

For further explanations, my Spores do 20 Damage, seen here:
 

Spoiler

 

1) "Spore doesn't seem to inherit any toxin damage"
First Ancient gets soaked up with Toxin. Each tick does 83 Damage. Then i pop a Spore and whats this? The second Ancient gets a huge damage number, 980 in that case. Its also spreading Toxin + Viral. Thats the explosion damage which gets abused as a Spore-Saryn. There is also our first visible Toxin proc, it does 233 Damage. Thats because Spores fuse all the available Toxin procs together into one huge number when spreading instead of every single toxin proc. 
 

Spoiler

In the next picure you can cleary see the DoT numbers. 3x 20 from the 3 spores and 1x 233, thats the Toxin proc. The 980 Damage instance didnt show up anymore, which makes sense because it was the Spread-Damage and not a DoT.

Spoiler

 

2) "Enemies can only have 1 single Spores DoT on them at any given time"
I think my previous pictures cleary showed 3x 20 Damage for 3 Spores, but here is more proof:

Again, 3 Spores = 3x20

Spoiler

 

6 Spores = 6x20

Spoiler

 

1 Spore = 1x20

Spoiler

 

4 Spores = 4x20

Spoiler

I didnt do 9x Spores, that was way too messy with all the numbers

 

3)  "If the target suffers a Toxin proc, is loses a spore and adds a spore to anyone in range"
Toxin procs dont pop Spores. They just dont. An enemy can have all the spores and 100 toxin procs, without popping a spore by yourself, the Toxin will never spread.
Picture for proof:

Spoiler

The right guy is completely full with Toxin, 25 Toxin procs in total. The left guy has nothinig. Not a single spore or toxin proc.

 

4) " which adds the Toxin proc's damage to its DoT "
At this point it should be clear that this is wrong. Toxin DoTs and Spore DoTs will never fuse except for the spread itself. The pictures provided should be enough.

5) I'm seeing identical numbers with a maxed out Torid as with an unmodded one
At first I tried to get some good pictures with the Torid but this is way too much work. Reason is the enemies are always together and the Torid-Cloud reaches the other guy aswell. So i simply took my Acrid again.

Fully Modded with Toxin Damage (no multishot), 1 Magazine: 
Target 1: Toxin Proc: 83
Target 2: Spread: 849 ;  Toxin Proc: 213

Spoiler

Not modded at all, 1 Magazine:
Target 1 : Toxin Proc: 9
Target 2 : Spread: 161 ; Toxin Proc: 40

Spoiler

Conclusion: The mods on your weapon are extremely important for your Damage-Output as a Spore-Saryn

6) No difference if the initial spores are on the Molt or on an enemy
Molt cant spread Toxin. The reason is as simple as it gets: Spores spread Toxin if the initial target has a toxin proc. You cant give your Molt toxin procs though because you cant damage it in the first place. Hitting the spore itself with Toxin doesnt change that.
Proof: First picture shows me hitting the Molt all i can, second picture shows... no toxin

Spoiler

Same applies to using Toxic Lash. The spores spread from the Molt to the enemy beautifully, but no Toxin procs. 

 

I hope all of this helps to understand Saryn better. 

Edited June 21, 2016 by ButterLutter

[PikeOrShield]

@ButterLutter

Wow!  This is the best breakdown for spores I've ever seen!  I've explained it to friends before, but this is much more useful since you can see the effects in-game.

[ButterLutter]

7 minutes ago, PikeOrShield said:

@ButterLutter

Wow!  This is the best breakdown for spores I've ever seen!  I've explained it to friends before, but this is much more useful since you can see the effects in-game.

Thanks, i appreciate that, i really do :)

[Chroia]

21 hours ago, ButterLutter said:

There seems to be some misinformation here, so i am going to take my time to go through all of this bit by bit.

I hope all of this helps to understand Saryn better. 

That was ridiculously comprehensive and enormously helpful. Thank you.